As a DM I like to tell very story like, episodic adventures. I really try to mold my games and adventures in the vein of shows like Supernatural, Buffy, Firefly, the MCU, etc. So the things that players encounter at level 1 wind up hinting at or having a direct connection to story elements later in the game. Sometimes those threads are related to the main story line, sometimes just side story lines. I think knowing that is important to the question I really want to ask here which is when is it okay to kill players?
I encourage my players to make backgrounds which get woven into the story. So as a player they spend a good amount of time really building their character, and making them a multidimensional part of the world. So I don't want to kill them on their first outing. When is it okay to let the dice decide their fate? First level is notoriously dangerous because of low hit points and bounded accuracy.
I want my players to feel as though they get their money's worth out of a character before they are in mortal danger, but if I don't let fate take the steering wheel right away then I feel as though I'm on a slippery slope as a DM, and I'm never going let my players face death. I'm uncomfortable with either option. Thoughts?
Players die. Part of the game. I never intentionally give the players something so difficult that they can't overcome it. Example of this is the classic total party kill. If that happens it's, in my eyes, usually the fault of the DM.
Though players do tend to make bad decisions as well. Sometimes they should run.. players don't like to run from a fight. So when making encounters it's very clear that they are going to either win, have a hard fight or everyone is going to die. Sometimes they miss a trap and just roll horribly.
I've given my players a very hard fight. They ran and survived. It was a proud moment that they realized they were going to die if they stayed in the fight.
Our rule at the table is play the dice as they roll. Don't fudge rolls no matter what. It's why I roll the dice on front of the players. No risk, no reward. My players love the different fights. Some easy, some decent and next session their hardest battle will be fought and they are very scared and excited about it.
Not every session needs a big boss battle. A dungeon crawl can lead to a good battle with a better RP and story reveal at the end. Such as an event dealing with a character Arc or something that opens up what is really going on in the world and what the players are slowly fighting for.
Its always OK. Bad choices or bad luck can lead to character death, it's part of the game. (Of course, I've been playing since 1st edition where I didn't even bother naming a character until it hit 3rd or 4th level) So long as you don't set them up to fail, let them die whenever it happens naturally. The threat of character death is what gives the game tension, if you don't let some of them die sometimes, they'll know, and it will make the game much less exciting. And I understand getting invested in a character, anyone who's played for any length of time probably has a half-dozen they remember fondly, but in the end, its just a piece of paper in a game, it should be the sort of thing they can deal with.
Character death isn't inherently bad, either. It can allow the other players to see how their character's deal with a companion's death, it can set up a recurring villain that the party is revenge motivated to stop. If the player's can't cast raise dead, they can find an NPC and owe that person a favor, or somehow have to come up with the material component for it, or probably both. And the player who's character dies now has a chance to try out a different character. There's lots of potential for it to be the beginning of something for the party, rather than the end for one person.
While PCs die from stupid mistakes or die rolls is how the game works. The GM should really never decide to kill them off. Even under plot reasons it's a bad idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Players kill characters DM's don't kill players or characters
The players drive the direction the story goes, you set the scene and resolve their decisions. You don't get to choose to kill a character, instead you place situations in the game where death is a reality and see how the players handle it. If the players botch it, then a character may die, if the players choose to let it happen, a character may die, if they find some way to circumvent the result of death, then no one dies. It's all in the hands of the players, the DM is nothing more than the means with which the players understand how their actions affect events.
That said, I treat every game the same way:
- Levels 1-3 are sort of a "tutorial/easy" mode where I'll remind the players of everything they need to remember, I'll keep the fights well within the Medium/Hard range. Creatures fight to the death or run away, simple tactics, and easy to read social encounters. The game is mostly on rails to introduce them to the many mechanics of the classes and game.
- Levels 3-5 are scaled up to "normal" mode where I do less reminding and I start to stick to the Hard range of encounters. Creatures will begin to use more tactics, I'll introduce morale, social encounters will be more intricate, and traps start to show up. I'll let them take more control of the game and try to wrap up anything that was "on rails" before they hit level 6.
-Levels 5+ have little/no safety nets, reminders, or DM help, the gloves are off. Creatures use tactics that fit their type, prisoners, interrogation, guerrilla tactics, all of that begin to happen. Social encounters are much more dynamic, it's possible to make enemies or friends, lies and truth both will be found. The players are now in control of where the game goes, if they want to enter a dragon's cave at level 7 they can, even if it isn't smart.
As a DM I like to tell very story like, episodic adventures. I really try to mold my games and adventures in the vein of shows like Supernatural, Buffy, Firefly, the MCU, etc. So the things that players encounter at level 1 wind up hinting at or having a direct connection to story elements later in the game. Sometimes those threads are related to the main story line, sometimes just side story lines. I think knowing that is important to the question I really want to ask here which is when is it okay to kill players?
I encourage my players to make backgrounds which get woven into the story. So as a player they spend a good amount of time really building their character, and making them a multidimensional part of the world. So I don't want to kill them on their first outing. When is it okay to let the dice decide their fate? First level is notoriously dangerous because of low hit points and bounded accuracy.
I want my players to feel as though they get their money's worth out of a character before they are in mortal danger, but if I don't let fate take the steering wheel right away then I feel as though I'm on a slippery slope as a DM, and I'm never going let my players face death. I'm uncomfortable with either option. Thoughts?
The biggest risk of death my players face is from the salty snacks we all eat on game day.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Players die. Part of the game. I never intentionally give the players something so difficult that they can't overcome it. Example of this is the classic total party kill. If that happens it's, in my eyes, usually the fault of the DM.
Though players do tend to make bad decisions as well. Sometimes they should run.. players don't like to run from a fight. So when making encounters it's very clear that they are going to either win, have a hard fight or everyone is going to die. Sometimes they miss a trap and just roll horribly.
I've given my players a very hard fight. They ran and survived. It was a proud moment that they realized they were going to die if they stayed in the fight.
Our rule at the table is play the dice as they roll. Don't fudge rolls no matter what. It's why I roll the dice on front of the players. No risk, no reward. My players love the different fights. Some easy, some decent and next session their hardest battle will be fought and they are very scared and excited about it.
Not every session needs a big boss battle. A dungeon crawl can lead to a good battle with a better RP and story reveal at the end. Such as an event dealing with a character Arc or something that opens up what is really going on in the world and what the players are slowly fighting for.
Course I could just be screwing this all up. Lol
Its always OK. Bad choices or bad luck can lead to character death, it's part of the game. (Of course, I've been playing since 1st edition where I didn't even bother naming a character until it hit 3rd or 4th level) So long as you don't set them up to fail, let them die whenever it happens naturally. The threat of character death is what gives the game tension, if you don't let some of them die sometimes, they'll know, and it will make the game much less exciting. And I understand getting invested in a character, anyone who's played for any length of time probably has a half-dozen they remember fondly, but in the end, its just a piece of paper in a game, it should be the sort of thing they can deal with.
Character death isn't inherently bad, either. It can allow the other players to see how their character's deal with a companion's death, it can set up a recurring villain that the party is revenge motivated to stop. If the player's can't cast raise dead, they can find an NPC and owe that person a favor, or somehow have to come up with the material component for it, or probably both. And the player who's character dies now has a chance to try out a different character. There's lots of potential for it to be the beginning of something for the party, rather than the end for one person.
While PCs die from stupid mistakes or die rolls is how the game works. The GM should really never decide to kill them off. Even under plot reasons it's a bad idea.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Players kill characters
DM's don't kill players or characters
The players drive the direction the story goes, you set the scene and resolve their decisions. You don't get to choose to kill a character, instead you place situations in the game where death is a reality and see how the players handle it. If the players botch it, then a character may die, if the players choose to let it happen, a character may die, if they find some way to circumvent the result of death, then no one dies. It's all in the hands of the players, the DM is nothing more than the means with which the players understand how their actions affect events.
That said, I treat every game the same way:
- Levels 1-3 are sort of a "tutorial/easy" mode where I'll remind the players of everything they need to remember, I'll keep the fights well within the Medium/Hard range. Creatures fight to the death or run away, simple tactics, and easy to read social encounters. The game is mostly on rails to introduce them to the many mechanics of the classes and game.
- Levels 3-5 are scaled up to "normal" mode where I do less reminding and I start to stick to the Hard range of encounters. Creatures will begin to use more tactics, I'll introduce morale, social encounters will be more intricate, and traps start to show up. I'll let them take more control of the game and try to wrap up anything that was "on rails" before they hit level 6.
-Levels 5+ have little/no safety nets, reminders, or DM help, the gloves are off. Creatures use tactics that fit their type, prisoners, interrogation, guerrilla tactics, all of that begin to happen. Social encounters are much more dynamic, it's possible to make enemies or friends, lies and truth both will be found. The players are now in control of where the game goes, if they want to enter a dragon's cave at level 7 they can, even if it isn't smart.