Some background: We've been playing for only 2 years (After I realized that if I can't find a DM my entire life long, I just better do it myself), and we've been going through the Starter Set plopped into a world I feel more comfortable taking charge of. I've been modifying some things and been phasing out the Starter Set content for my own. They're all level 4.
They defeated the Black Spider. Fighter from Thundertree has been insisting on not going to his home (weirdly even to me, but then again probably accurately judging the whole dragon rumor situation). They were thinking of going to the Neverwinter stand-in to do some shopping and see what's next (and I was thinking I'd handle it as some time off, some fun stuff to do, some minor encounters that could be fun. Although I'm terrified because I don't feel I'm ready for that playground). They decide to check out Old Owl Well first, because oooh mysteriouuuus, and what's Hamun Kost even doing theeeere? (fair)
Long Story Short: 2 of them are trapped in the Shadowfell and the other 3 are on the way to our Neverwinter stand-in and have no idea what happened, because their friends have been replaced with 2 Doppelgangers.
Thing is. I wanted to teach them a lesson. They take everything at face value and they touch everything (honestly they handle things like in a video game). I gave them ample warning to not touch anything. They were taught the lesson AND they even learned it (in a very specific context I guess). Aaaaand two of them touched the very final trap anyway. So, mission accomplished. Those two at least learned the lesson. They're also alone in the shadowfell, waiting to be saved by a group of people who are being deceived and take everything at face value or at least don't inquire any deeper (one of the players has tweaked her RP to give some really good hints too. Nope. Nothing).
So things I'm trying to figure out:
How long and how at all can those two survive in the Shadowfell (do they have to live from their own rations only? Wouldn't the enemies be all rather high level? If I do a special session for them, what would it look like). At the moment they're in the deep basement of a tower on a very high cliff (used to be on a spire, but honestly, it's more interesting if they can go somewhere)
A) Do I wait for the party to figure it out and run the risk that two of my players experience everything only as doppelgangers and create a new character eventually and possibly leave their original for dead AND NO ONE EVEN KNOWS?? B) Do they just find their own way out? I just established for the same players that the doppelgangers were stuck in the shadowfell until the players accidentally switched places with them. C) Does maybe a different adventuring party save them? When? Would they be an equivalent party which simply is more competent, or a much higher level as a party to aspire to? (I have a vague idea that the party would join a tournament and end up facing off with that other party + their two new recruits that they had saved. They'd be wonderfully confused, but I absolutely can't tell if they would even go for a tournament)
If they have their own session in the shadowfell, should I delay it some to see what the rest of the party does, or do it early to give them a chance to save themselves and rejoin the party before their characters miss all that much? There's also simply the fact that when playing with planar travel I can pretty much plop them back at any time.
The toll this takes on the fighter I'll leave up to the player, but it gets interesting when it comes to the Warlock. He had been looking for the material plane pieces of his Patron, who had been physically cut up and its essence banished. Also the patron overrid the Warlock's personality. so two options A) This is a major setback. Patron very unhappy. Maybe abandons warlock for now? B) Patron has no access to the shadowfell. Warlock's personality gains control again and he realizes the horrifying thing that has been happening to him and will again when back. Fighter learns the truth about Warlock. Also with either option, should I limit the Warlock's powers and which parts? Won't that just make the whole experience more deadly and possibly less fun?
As their Doppelganger-selves I've told the players that they know about anything immediately recent + anything that would have crossed the character's mind while they were by the trap. The player's equipment got copied too (for whatever reason. Long prepared Doppelganger magic stuff. *cough*) but it's all just visual copies. A sharp sword is still sharp, but a potion is just a colored liquid. Anything magic is gone and obviously no warlock powers for doppel-lock (war-ganger?). I think this is fine like this, but subject to change if any idea comes up.
So these are the things I've gotta think about. I'd appreciate any opinions and ideas :)
I'm no specialist on the other planes, but my understanding of the plane of shadows is that it's more... boring, than deadly. Everything is toned down, there are no color, and not much happens. Looking at the DMG p52 seems to comfort this idea, since the worst thing that can happen on the shadowfell is apparently falling prey to despair, most likely from apathy.
This is a bleak reflection of our world.
This also means that you may populate it as you see fit, although obviously shadow creatures are especially relevant. Places can also be somewhat distorted, such as a tower rising much higher than it actually does, and you may encounter a creature who only exists in the shadowfell but whose existence has consequences on the material world.
As for how to handle your doppelganger problem... I feel like every solution will come with a bit of DMeus Ex Machina, since you in essence split the party, and have a party that's almost half made of traitor.
At this point, I think I would go for broke: the doppelganger tries to replace the other 3 members by assaulting them during the night. Either they succeed, in which case the party is reunited on the plane of shadows, and have to find a way to escape together, or they fail, and the party is now aware that something is wrong, and 2 of their member are missing, and can mount a rescue mission. In which case, you should probably have some NPC ready to help that your 2 players may play. Those characters should, imo, be slightly underpowered and under-equipped, as to make the transition back to your actual character even more satisfying.
Whatever the case, you should make sure that the player realises they missed something because of this delay. Not something big, but maybe something bad happened that they should have stopped, or a friend got in trouble while they were elsewhere.
I would reccomend using Evernight in some way, Neverwinter's Shadowfell twin. Both because it's awesome, but also because it's very intricately connected to Neverwinter, so the players can easierly get reunited there
@ClementP from what I've heard things are more undead and less likely to be friendly, but good point, I should still give them a companion, either another planar traveller who has been stuck and scared, or a denizen who they might convince to guide them or is even using them to find a portal for their own purposes. I immediately got the image of something like Frodo, Sam & Gollum.
In that case, with a guide and a rather decent vantage point from where they are they should have a good view of where to go. Evernight sounds interesting (is there a feywild equivalent? I'm super curious now), but maybe a bit far for them. I could check what theories they come up with and adapt to it. With a companion I can definitely give them a "hey, maybe that evernight place has a solution". Or they might go for Shadowfell Wave Echo Cave first, pick up a magical portal key thing that needs a powerup somewhere in the middle of evernight.
I'm telling the players that they'll get a session to explore whats going on with their trapped characters, and in the main campaign they should just pretend to be doppelgangers as long as they have fun with it, and just drive up the hints or outright try to kill the "loose ends" when they're done with it. And then we'll introduce a temp character for each when they're done watching the other players realize they lost two companions.
Mhm I'll have to think what happen during the delay. At the very least I'd say Thundertree becomes dragon cultist center and a proper dragon lair and Venomfang matures.
Have the dopplegangers be working for someone else (who now becomes a campaign boss or mini-boss). That boss-type send some other minions to fight the party, and the dopplegangers turn on the rest. After the fight, the two trapped characters are released, because the only thing holding them in the shadowfell was dopplegangers taking their place on the prime material plane. Or if you do a session with the pair in shadowfell, maybe they find a portal out, and get out just in time to see the party defeat the dopplegangers, or they get out and return and see the dopplegangers with the party, and then you get to have the fun of making the party figure out who the real characters are. Then after everyone is back together, they can try and figure out who did this to them, and why.
Have the party in shadowfell attacked by undead, shadows are horrible, step up the encounters every day the party spends until they die or are rescued. (So theres a sense of a time limit) Have the mortal plane party attacked by the doppelgangers when they sleep with the intent to murder the vulnerable and after they move away component pouches and weapons /shields when the party are already out of armour, Sleeping surprise attacks will teach a very short lived life lesson. However if a doppelganger is killed immediately replace it with a player from shadowfell (maybe missing anything it wasnt carrying on its person) Describe to the parties horror the creature on its last legs howls and its wounds fill in repairing themselves before the players eyes. (leading to the party perhaps fleeing in despair or hacking their returned comrades down)
and then you get to have the fun of making the party figure out who the real characters are
Oh that'd be neat! Let's see how things happen. Maybe I'll play with the shadowfell group. See if they can escape. Then play with the material realm group and see when feels like the best moment to have the shadowfell group appear out of nowhere.
I'll check out that video! Definitely need to do a ton of research.
I'm looking forward to introducing some horror into our campaign!
Played with the shadowfell group, and I think it went pretty well! It was rather horror movie-ish. two of them came to the shadowfell, and only one returned to the material plane (the other stayed behind because he lost the connection to his warlock patron and realized that since they made a pact he had been changed and been a pawn to his patron. The patron unknown to the warlock being a banished worldending entity) created a permanent big (but hidden) pathway from a heavily populated shadowfell location to a heavily populated material realm location. Unknowingly helped a worldending entity escape from his banishment to the shadowfell back to the material realm. Oh and if the Warlock returns to the material realm (he's in a pretty shitty environment and has a permanent pathway home) he'll be under control of his patron again and likely try to kill his party since he revealed to one of them in the shadowfell everything he knows about his patron and his situation. All in all a success. Lets see what the material realm group does, and when I let the returned one reappear.
You could use one of the Elder Evils, like Bolothamogg “Him Who Watches from Beyond the Stars”. The players caught In The Shadowfell attempt to escape some way, but never seem to succeed, and slowly begin To despair. And just when they’d normally kick the bucket, they have an encounter with an other worldly being who will help them escape. But he wants a favor in return.
Boom then you got the whole “Uber powerful monster is making me do stuff #moraledelima”
meanwhile the other party memebers are in never winter, when the Doppelgängers start stealing and mustering people... and the other players are caught up in finding said murderers.
oh the encounter already happened. As they started getting more desperate and lost, the being showed up (all mysterious and strange), and through the rest of the session revealed bit by bit greater powers. And finally underlined his power level as just before they were all leaving for the material realm, one of the players asked if he wasn't worried about [most powerful NPC they had heard about in the Shadowfell] he laughed, said she was welcome to try, and walked off to the material realm. (players reaction: oh. OH NO)
I think I'm going to do your suggestion, having the Doppelgangers commit crimes in secret, while they're still hanging with the party. The players who got their characters replaced are super into the idea of playing them for a bit and messing with the other players :P
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Some background: We've been playing for only 2 years (After I realized that if I can't find a DM my entire life long, I just better do it myself), and we've been going through the Starter Set plopped into a world I feel more comfortable taking charge of. I've been modifying some things and been phasing out the Starter Set content for my own. They're all level 4.
They defeated the Black Spider.
Fighter from Thundertree has been insisting on not going to his home (weirdly even to me, but then again probably accurately judging the whole dragon rumor situation).
They were thinking of going to the Neverwinter stand-in to do some shopping and see what's next (and I was thinking I'd handle it as some time off, some fun stuff to do, some minor encounters that could be fun. Although I'm terrified because I don't feel I'm ready for that playground).
They decide to check out Old Owl Well first, because oooh mysteriouuuus, and what's Hamun Kost even doing theeeere? (fair)
Long Story Short:
2 of them are trapped in the Shadowfell and the other 3 are on the way to our Neverwinter stand-in and have no idea what happened, because their friends have been replaced with 2 Doppelgangers.
Thing is. I wanted to teach them a lesson. They take everything at face value and they touch everything (honestly they handle things like in a video game). I gave them ample warning to not touch anything. They were taught the lesson AND they even learned it (in a very specific context I guess). Aaaaand two of them touched the very final trap anyway.
So, mission accomplished. Those two at least learned the lesson. They're also alone in the shadowfell, waiting to be saved by a group of people who are being deceived and take everything at face value or at least don't inquire any deeper (one of the players has tweaked her RP to give some really good hints too. Nope. Nothing).
So things I'm trying to figure out:
B) Do they just find their own way out? I just established for the same players that the doppelgangers were stuck in the shadowfell until the players accidentally switched places with them.
C) Does maybe a different adventuring party save them? When? Would they be an equivalent party which simply is more competent, or a much higher level as a party to aspire to? (I have a vague idea that the party would join a tournament and end up facing off with that other party + their two new recruits that they had saved. They'd be wonderfully confused, but I absolutely can't tell if they would even go for a tournament)
A) This is a major setback. Patron very unhappy. Maybe abandons warlock for now?
B) Patron has no access to the shadowfell. Warlock's personality gains control again and he realizes the horrifying thing that has been happening to him and will again when back. Fighter learns the truth about Warlock.
Also with either option, should I limit the Warlock's powers and which parts? Won't that just make the whole experience more deadly and possibly less fun?
So these are the things I've gotta think about. I'd appreciate any opinions and ideas :)
I'm no specialist on the other planes, but my understanding of the plane of shadows is that it's more... boring, than deadly. Everything is toned down, there are no color, and not much happens. Looking at the DMG p52 seems to comfort this idea, since the worst thing that can happen on the shadowfell is apparently falling prey to despair, most likely from apathy.
This is a bleak reflection of our world.
This also means that you may populate it as you see fit, although obviously shadow creatures are especially relevant. Places can also be somewhat distorted, such as a tower rising much higher than it actually does, and you may encounter a creature who only exists in the shadowfell but whose existence has consequences on the material world.
As for how to handle your doppelganger problem... I feel like every solution will come with a bit of DMeus Ex Machina, since you in essence split the party, and have a party that's almost half made of traitor.
At this point, I think I would go for broke: the doppelganger tries to replace the other 3 members by assaulting them during the night. Either they succeed, in which case the party is reunited on the plane of shadows, and have to find a way to escape together, or they fail, and the party is now aware that something is wrong, and 2 of their member are missing, and can mount a rescue mission. In which case, you should probably have some NPC ready to help that your 2 players may play. Those characters should, imo, be slightly underpowered and under-equipped, as to make the transition back to your actual character even more satisfying.
Whatever the case, you should make sure that the player realises they missed something because of this delay. Not something big, but maybe something bad happened that they should have stopped, or a friend got in trouble while they were elsewhere.
Hope this helps.
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I would reccomend using Evernight in some way, Neverwinter's Shadowfell twin. Both because it's awesome, but also because it's very intricately connected to Neverwinter, so the players can easierly get reunited there
@ClementP from what I've heard things are more undead and less likely to be friendly, but good point, I should still give them a companion, either another planar traveller who has been stuck and scared, or a denizen who they might convince to guide them or is even using them to find a portal for their own purposes. I immediately got the image of something like Frodo, Sam & Gollum.
In that case, with a guide and a rather decent vantage point from where they are they should have a good view of where to go. Evernight sounds interesting (is there a feywild equivalent? I'm super curious now), but maybe a bit far for them. I could check what theories they come up with and adapt to it. With a companion I can definitely give them a "hey, maybe that evernight place has a solution". Or they might go for Shadowfell Wave Echo Cave first, pick up a magical portal key thing that needs a powerup somewhere in the middle of evernight.
I'm telling the players that they'll get a session to explore whats going on with their trapped characters, and in the main campaign they should just pretend to be doppelgangers as long as they have fun with it, and just drive up the hints or outright try to kill the "loose ends" when they're done with it. And then we'll introduce a temp character for each when they're done watching the other players realize they lost two companions.
Mhm I'll have to think what happen during the delay. At the very least I'd say Thundertree becomes dragon cultist center and a proper dragon lair and Venomfang matures.
Thanks for the ideas!
Have the dopplegangers be working for someone else (who now becomes a campaign boss or mini-boss). That boss-type send some other minions to fight the party, and the dopplegangers turn on the rest. After the fight, the two trapped characters are released, because the only thing holding them in the shadowfell was dopplegangers taking their place on the prime material plane. Or if you do a session with the pair in shadowfell, maybe they find a portal out, and get out just in time to see the party defeat the dopplegangers, or they get out and return and see the dopplegangers with the party, and then you get to have the fun of making the party figure out who the real characters are. Then after everyone is back together, they can try and figure out who did this to them, and why.
There is plenty fo stuff you can do without making it too high level. Shadar-kai, shadows, regular undead. Its a nice place to run a horror adventure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiPh7ppIGXw is worth to watch
Have the party in shadowfell attacked by undead, shadows are horrible, step up the encounters every day the party spends until they die or are rescued. (So theres a sense of a time limit) Have the mortal plane party attacked by the doppelgangers when they sleep with the intent to murder the vulnerable and after they move away component pouches and weapons /shields when the party are already out of armour, Sleeping surprise attacks will teach a very short lived life lesson. However if a doppelganger is killed immediately replace it with a player from shadowfell (maybe missing anything it wasnt carrying on its person) Describe to the parties horror the creature on its last legs howls and its wounds fill in repairing themselves before the players eyes. (leading to the party perhaps fleeing in despair or hacking their returned comrades down)
Any survivors will have learnt the lesson well.
Oh that'd be neat! Let's see how things happen. Maybe I'll play with the shadowfell group. See if they can escape. Then play with the material realm group and see when feels like the best moment to have the shadowfell group appear out of nowhere.
I'll check out that video! Definitely need to do a ton of research.
I'm looking forward to introducing some horror into our campaign!
Played with the shadowfell group, and I think it went pretty well!
It was rather horror movie-ish.
two of them came to the shadowfell, and only one returned to the material plane (the other stayed behind because he lost the connection to his warlock patron and realized that since they made a pact he had been changed and been a pawn to his patron. The patron unknown to the warlock being a banished worldending entity)
created a permanent big (but hidden) pathway from a heavily populated shadowfell location to a heavily populated material realm location.
Unknowingly helped a worldending entity escape from his banishment to the shadowfell back to the material realm.
Oh and if the Warlock returns to the material realm (he's in a pretty shitty environment and has a permanent pathway home) he'll be under control of his patron again and likely try to kill his party since he revealed to one of them in the shadowfell everything he knows about his patron and his situation.
All in all a success. Lets see what the material realm group does, and when I let the returned one reappear.
You could use one of the Elder Evils, like Bolothamogg “Him Who Watches from Beyond the Stars”. The players caught In The Shadowfell attempt to escape some way, but never seem to succeed, and slowly begin To despair. And just when they’d normally kick the bucket, they have an encounter with an other worldly being who will help them escape. But he wants a favor in return.
Boom then you got the whole “Uber powerful monster is making me do stuff #moraledelima”
meanwhile the other party memebers are in never winter, when the Doppelgängers start stealing and mustering people... and the other players are caught up in finding said murderers.
oh the encounter already happened. As they started getting more desperate and lost, the being showed up (all mysterious and strange), and through the rest of the session revealed bit by bit greater powers. And finally underlined his power level as just before they were all leaving for the material realm, one of the players asked if he wasn't worried about [most powerful NPC they had heard about in the Shadowfell] he laughed, said she was welcome to try, and walked off to the material realm. (players reaction: oh. OH NO)
I think I'm going to do your suggestion, having the Doppelgangers commit crimes in secret, while they're still hanging with the party. The players who got their characters replaced are super into the idea of playing them for a bit and messing with the other players :P