lf a pc/npc died,and the partys druid wanted to reincarnate them as something specific (examples include the opposite sex of the same race,or a a race the dead character mentioned wanting to be) could they chose what they reincarnate into,or would you force them to roll the dice? (lf they could chose,l would rule that there would have to be somechange to the character,otherwise it would just be a raise dead)
Reincarnate as written, does not allow you to choose the form. It differs from Raise Dead in that it doesn't inflict any weakness, and it doesn't require a complete body. Reincarnate will work with "a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid", while Raise Dead "doesn't restore missing body parts". Both are 5th level.
To my mind, the ability for Reincarnate to work with partial bodies, is balanced by the random form element.
If you are going to allow the caster to choose the form, you are basically making it on par with a 7th level Resurrection spell ( or better, since you are also throwing in a free permanent Polymorph spell as well ).
I would not allow a Player to cast Reincarnate, and choose the form - although they might search for, or research a version of the spell which does allow that, but I'd make it a 7th or 8th level spell.
If you are going to allow them to preserve the form ( not change it up to something new that they specifically want ), then I'd add the restictions and penalties for Raise Dead; basically allow them to use that spell instead.
Of course, you could just keep killing the Character and Reincarnating them until you randomly got the form you wanted :p I wouldn't recommend that.
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Or you could just have them roll up a new character. Bottom line is that the player needs to play the character they want to play or else there isn't much point in playing the game at all. Allowing reincarnate to be an in-story anchor for it is a hand-wave worth doing in my opinion. If the player wants to do it over and over and the DM or the rest of the party is not cool with it, then that's a discussion to be had out of character.
Just my opinion and I'm certainly no authority on the matter.
That's just my interpretation from a game balance perspective. I even advanced the option where you could just allow them to cast Raise Dead instead - complete with its restrictions and drawbacks - which is still balanced as a 5th level spell.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't allow them to choose the form with Reincarnate - just be aware that if you do, you're adding power and benefits ( Resurrection + free selectable race change ) well in advance of what RAW gives the Characters. That may - or may not - be of concern to you.
I agree 100% that the Player needs to have a Character that they want to play, and that if they're really unhappy with being a Half-orc now, instead of a High Elf, I'd allow them to roll a new Character. However, them questing to get their old form back could be a whole new adventure arc ( as we've seen in Critical Role's current campaign ), if they're willing to endure their new form for awhile.
Ultimately, the right decision is the decision that works for that Game/Group/GM/Player.
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The spell does say: "If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails."
So, in the case of of the high elf that really doesn't want to be a half-orc, they can simply choose to not enter the body and the spell fails. The druid is free to cast it again (and blow another 1,000 gp) to get another roll on the table to see if something more palatable comes up.
The spell also specifically says the DM can choose the race, so you could just make the high elf an high elf again. In most campaigns, player death probably isn't going to come up often enough that fudging the race on a reincarnate is going to horribly unbalance things.
I’m not gonna answer the poll because with most things in my life, my answer is nuanced. I could be convinced given the circumstances of the death and the caster’s experience, that they have a measure of control with the spell. It’s part of the “yes, and...” mentality they tell DMs to keep regarding the game. Maybe make the caster make an arcana check (or maybe a nature check with the caster likely being a druid.) to see if they have the necessary level of control of the spell. Or maybe say that for each level they upcast the spell you knock 5 off the DC for that check to choose the body.
So I think it should be possible, but they should have to earn the right to bypass chance. The default needs to be the spells as written.
As it creates a new body, any bodily afflictions (missing limbs, magical diseases and curses, etc) are left behind on the old body. This is is somewhat minor (it doesn't do anything Greater Restoration won't do).
It can be cast on a body that is too incomplete for raise dead. This is major, as there are no clerical fixes for this before level 7 (Regenerate or Resurrection))
It grants a change in shape, comparable to a permanent Alter Self. There is no alternate spell that does this before level 9 (True Polymorph).
The character returns to full capacity immediately, rather than taking 4 days to recover. There is no alternate spell that does this before level 9 (True Resurrection).
It does cost a bit more (1,000 gp vs 500 gp).
It needs some disadvantage to compensate for those advantages. I would be tempted to have it reincarnate as a baby and it grows back to adulthood over a week or two.
Time passing is not a cost to Players at all: "we stay at the tavern for 2 weeks while Bob grows up". It's possible that they might miss deadlines, and/or the bad guys get two weeks of free action, depending on when this happens, but generally time passing is hand waved away in the game.
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Fascinating conversation. You have led me to look at this spell in a way I never have before. For me, it has always been an in-game solution to an out-of-game problem.
No, but I would consider giving the player a chance to redistribute his base stats and ASIs (but not feats) to better accommodate the new race as long as any pre-requisites of the existing character were still met (multiclass, feats or others).
I think using Reincarnate as a deliberate body modification tool is a cool idea. The spell doesn't make any mention of gender, and I'd be inclined to just leave that under the control of the PC being reincarnated without any further requirements.
As for changing to a specific race, adding some additional material components to constrain the number of possibilities could be an interesting approach, and/or maybe it takes a few tries? Ultimately, if it's something the player wants to do I don't think there's any reason to make it terribly difficult in practical terms, but it could be a good opportunity for a side quest if everyone's into it.
Even if your view is that it should be taken as written, it's not like burning a few thousand gold on components for multiple Reincarnate attempts is likely to be that big a deal once they're throwing 5th level spells around. Might as well give them what they want and make something more interesting out of it in the process.
modern versions of D&D have really wimped out on reincarnate. Back in AD&D it could turn you into a badger (65% chance to roll on the animal table, though the animal table included centaur, dryad, pixie, faun, so the actual chance for a straight-up animal was only 57%).
That's just my interpretation from a game balance perspective. I even advanced the option where you could just allow them to cast Raise Dead instead - complete with its restrictions and drawbacks - which is still balanced as a 5th level spell.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't allow them to choose the form with Reincarnate - just be aware that if you do, you're adding power and benefits ( Resurrection + free selectable race change ) well in advance of what RAW gives the Characters. That may - or may not - be of concern to you.
I agree 100% that the Player needs to have a Character that they want to play, and that if they're really unhappy with being a Half-orc now, instead of a High Elf, I'd allow them to roll a new Character. However, them questing to get their old form back could be a whole new adventure arc ( as we've seen in Critical Role's current campaign ), if they're willing to endure their new form for awhile.
Ultimately, the right decision is the decision that works for that Game/Group/GM/Player.
l am glad l am caught up to that point otherwise that would be a potential spoiler. tbh that reveal was kinda my inspiration for making this,given the fact that for *********** to have become a *********** on the first try is unlikely (**** used to avoid spoilers)
That's just my interpretation from a game balance perspective. I even advanced the option where you could just allow them to cast Raise Dead instead - complete with its restrictions and drawbacks - which is still balanced as a 5th level spell.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't allow them to choose the form with Reincarnate - just be aware that if you do, you're adding power and benefits ( Resurrection + free selectable race change ) well in advance of what RAW gives the Characters. That may - or may not - be of concern to you.
I agree 100% that the Player needs to have a Character that they want to play, and that if they're really unhappy with being a Half-orc now, instead of a High Elf, I'd allow them to roll a new Character. However, them questing to get their old form back could be a whole new adventure arc ( as we've seen in Critical Role's current campaign ), if they're willing to endure their new form for awhile.
Ultimately, the right decision is the decision that works for that Game/Group/GM/Player.
l am glad l am caught up to that point otherwise that would be a potential spoiler. tbh that reveal was kinda my inspiration for making this,given the fact that for *********** to have become a *********** on the first try is unlikely (**** used to avoid spoilers)
Ah - I didn't think it too spoilery - however, if you go back and look at that Character talking about the ordeal about becoming a ********* they did kill ****** repeatedly until they got the form they wanted, the *********** didn't have a version of Reincarnate which allowed *** to select the ********* form right off the bat.
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I'm a pretty RAW guy so normally I'd say "roll for your reincarnations" but really, unless that's specifically why they're doing it, why not just talk to them and ask them what they want from a reincarnation? Do they wanna try out a different class? Do they wanna come back as the exact same character? What are the narrative stakes for themselves, the others and your campaign as a DM?
We are mostly adults after all right?
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lf a pc/npc died,and the partys druid wanted to reincarnate them as something specific (examples include the opposite sex of the same race,or a a race the dead character mentioned wanting to be) could they chose what they reincarnate into,or would you force them to roll the dice? (lf they could chose,l would rule that there would have to be some change to the character,otherwise it would just be a raise dead)
Yes. Leaving such an important aspect of the character to chance is absurd unless the player actually wants to spin the wheel of fate.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Reincarnate as written, does not allow you to choose the form. It differs from Raise Dead in that it doesn't inflict any weakness, and it doesn't require a complete body. Reincarnate will work with "a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid", while Raise Dead "doesn't restore missing body parts". Both are 5th level.
To my mind, the ability for Reincarnate to work with partial bodies, is balanced by the random form element.
If you are going to allow the caster to choose the form, you are basically making it on par with a 7th level Resurrection spell ( or better, since you are also throwing in a free permanent Polymorph spell as well ).
I would not allow a Player to cast Reincarnate, and choose the form - although they might search for, or research a version of the spell which does allow that, but I'd make it a 7th or 8th level spell.
If you are going to allow them to preserve the form ( not change it up to something new that they specifically want ), then I'd add the restictions and penalties for Raise Dead; basically allow them to use that spell instead.
Of course, you could just keep killing the Character and Reincarnating them until you randomly got the form you wanted :p I wouldn't recommend that.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Or you could just have them roll up a new character. Bottom line is that the player needs to play the character they want to play or else there isn't much point in playing the game at all. Allowing reincarnate to be an in-story anchor for it is a hand-wave worth doing in my opinion. If the player wants to do it over and over and the DM or the rest of the party is not cool with it, then that's a discussion to be had out of character.
Just my opinion and I'm certainly no authority on the matter.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That's just my interpretation from a game balance perspective. I even advanced the option where you could just allow them to cast Raise Dead instead - complete with its restrictions and drawbacks - which is still balanced as a 5th level spell.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't allow them to choose the form with Reincarnate - just be aware that if you do, you're adding power and benefits ( Resurrection + free selectable race change ) well in advance of what RAW gives the Characters. That may - or may not - be of concern to you.
I agree 100% that the Player needs to have a Character that they want to play, and that if they're really unhappy with being a Half-orc now, instead of a High Elf, I'd allow them to roll a new Character. However, them questing to get their old form back could be a whole new adventure arc ( as we've seen in Critical Role's current campaign ), if they're willing to endure their new form for awhile.
Ultimately, the right decision is the decision that works for that Game/Group/GM/Player.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
The spell does say: "If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails."
So, in the case of of the high elf that really doesn't want to be a half-orc, they can simply choose to not enter the body and the spell fails. The druid is free to cast it again (and blow another 1,000 gp) to get another roll on the table to see if something more palatable comes up.
The spell also specifically says the DM can choose the race, so you could just make the high elf an high elf again. In most campaigns, player death probably isn't going to come up often enough that fudging the race on a reincarnate is going to horribly unbalance things.
I’m not gonna answer the poll because with most things in my life, my answer is nuanced. I could be convinced given the circumstances of the death and the caster’s experience, that they have a measure of control with the spell. It’s part of the “yes, and...” mentality they tell DMs to keep regarding the game. Maybe make the caster make an arcana check (or maybe a nature check with the caster likely being a druid.) to see if they have the necessary level of control of the spell. Or maybe say that for each level they upcast the spell you knock 5 off the DC for that check to choose the body.
So I think it should be possible, but they should have to earn the right to bypass chance. The default needs to be the spells as written.
When we compare Reincarnate to Raise Dead, Reincarnate has the following benefits
It needs some disadvantage to compensate for those advantages. I would be tempted to have it reincarnate as a baby and it grows back to adulthood over a week or two.
Time passing is not a cost to Players at all: "we stay at the tavern for 2 weeks while Bob grows up". It's possible that they might miss deadlines, and/or the bad guys get two weeks of free action, depending on when this happens, but generally time passing is hand waved away in the game.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Keep the randomness. It is a big downside, which is why it is so much better in every other way than Raise Dead.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Fascinating conversation. You have led me to look at this spell in a way I never have before. For me, it has always been an in-game solution to an out-of-game problem.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
No, but I would consider giving the player a chance to redistribute his base stats and ASIs (but not feats) to better accommodate the new race as long as any pre-requisites of the existing character were still met (multiclass, feats or others).
I think using Reincarnate as a deliberate body modification tool is a cool idea. The spell doesn't make any mention of gender, and I'd be inclined to just leave that under the control of the PC being reincarnated without any further requirements.
As for changing to a specific race, adding some additional material components to constrain the number of possibilities could be an interesting approach, and/or maybe it takes a few tries? Ultimately, if it's something the player wants to do I don't think there's any reason to make it terribly difficult in practical terms, but it could be a good opportunity for a side quest if everyone's into it.
Even if your view is that it should be taken as written, it's not like burning a few thousand gold on components for multiple Reincarnate attempts is likely to be that big a deal once they're throwing 5th level spells around. Might as well give them what they want and make something more interesting out of it in the process.
modern versions of D&D have really wimped out on reincarnate. Back in AD&D it could turn you into a badger (65% chance to roll on the animal table, though the animal table included centaur, dryad, pixie, faun, so the actual chance for a straight-up animal was only 57%).
l am glad l am caught up to that point otherwise that would be a potential spoiler. tbh that reveal was kinda my inspiration for making this,given the fact that for *********** to have become a *********** on the first try is unlikely (**** used to avoid spoilers)
The original D&D editions actually had you roll for it, so I'm sticking with that.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Ah - I didn't think it too spoilery - however, if you go back and look at that Character talking about the ordeal about becoming a ********* they did kill ****** repeatedly until they got the form they wanted, the *********** didn't have a version of Reincarnate which allowed *** to select the ********* form right off the bat.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
ah,it sounded like ***** was only killed once,but that makes sense.
In that case, just let someone pick the reincarnation for some multiple of the regular material component cost. Probably x10.
I'm a pretty RAW guy so normally I'd say "roll for your reincarnations" but really, unless that's specifically why they're doing it, why not just talk to them and ask them what they want from a reincarnation? Do they wanna try out a different class? Do they wanna come back as the exact same character? What are the narrative stakes for themselves, the others and your campaign as a DM?
We are mostly adults after all right?