Hey, all! I hope this thread finds you in good health, despite the world's present circumstance.
So, as the title somewhat explains, I'm a lightly experienced DM, having DMed three short campaigns and a hefty number of one-shots and side sessions. While I've enjoyed the stories I've told over the past fewyears, I have some ideas in mind for campaigns that I believe will wow my players. One of those ideas is more prevalent in my mind, and so I want to plan it out ahead of time, as I'm presently a player in my group while I take a break from DMing. However, my overall goal is a biiiiit zealous, as I will explain in a bit, and I would like some help setting this up.
So, the general theme is this: there are two factions in the world of Malceroth - the Grove of Light, and the Bloodied Hand. These two factions are always at odds with each other, though the intensity of this rivalry has fluctuated over the years (think World of Warcraft). The players would select one of these two factions, which would determine what races and classes they can play, and thus begin their adventure. In the beginning, the players go around doing small quests, like in WoW, until they reached somewhere around mid level, at which point the "main" quest would begin: war is beginning to brew between the factions, and the players are tasked with various missions and quests that will ultimately lead to the big climactic fight.
Here's the main part I need help with: I'm going to college this fall, so I know I won't be able to play this campaign idea with my current players. While at college, I aim to start a group... Or two groups. Yes, two groups. You see, I have this plan in my head: player group A plays one faction, while player group B plays the other. These groups are ran during the same time frame, but they never interact with each other... UNTIL the climactic fight
Yes, I want to do a PvP fight between the two groups, BUT I want to clarify one thing: My aim is NOT to have these two groups fight to the death. Mid fight, I have a boss I want to have awaken and enter the fray. It's a modified dracolich based on Daurgothoth (a CR 50 ancient black dracolich from an older addition of DnD), and once it wakes up, things are going to go south quickly. My plan, and hope, is for the players to team up to fight the dracolich, possibly leading to a truce between the factions. How long the truce lasts is irrelivant... Until the next chapter (foreshadowing me using this set up later).
So there's my problem. Besides building two completely different factions, running two groups in the same world (and not dropping the bomb about either one before the fight), and setting up various quests, how do I run a fight between full parties of players without it going terribly wrong?
Edit-1:
First, I'd like to thank everyone who has replied so far. I know I'm setting the bar high for myself with this one, but I'm not one to back down from a challenge. I have a lot of work ahead of me, and I'm more than thankful for the advice and comments so far. Now, to address them one by one.
I haven't looked into Wildemount or Ravnica, so I'll be sure to take a peek at those when I find the material. I know that Ravnica is very heavy on the faction-vs-faction side of things (I used to play MtG. Izzet fan over here), so I'm sure I can find some inspiration there.
In regards to questions about the parties themselves, I've been thinking over that, and I believe that I'll have to "assign" a faction to each party. I don't want to railroad anybody, but I want to avoid giving one party the faction they want, then handing the other the scraps. Maybe a coin toss before session zero (Heads=BH. Tails=GoL). I tend to be very neutral in regards to PvP, as which ever way the fight goes it's the PCs who can interfere or tidy things up, so I don't aim to favor one side. Also, I had been thinking about the players of one group hearing the exploits of the other, and visa versa, without it becoming too obvious OOC that there's a second PC party. I know that will be a challenge, but I've had some real world experience (not proud of it) keeping things subtle or bluffing.
In regards to college, I know I'm going to have to balance my time wisely. I've been using these current events as a sort of practice run, balancing personal time with housework and schoolwork. My goal, and hope, is to use the usual M-F days for college work, keeping the weekend for my personal time. It's that time that I'd plan to run the campaign. If that doesn't work out, I'll think of something.
Now, for the final part of this post, and likely the longest, I want to explain the factions of Malceroth.
First, we have the Bloodied Hand. This faction, akin to the Horde, is comprised of monstrous races and races that would be seen as outcasts: orcs/half orcs, goblinoids, yuan-ti, goliaths, tieflings, kenkus, and lizardfolk. The Bloodied Hand, compared to their rivals, is more of an uneasy pact between these racial groups, and this plays a role in their political landscape. Despite racial tensions, the races of the Bloodied Hand are bound by the principle of survival, and thus they cooperate well enough to stay together. I'll list their individual struggles at the end of this edit.
Unlike their rivals, the Bloodied Hand is more traditional in their culture and beliefs, worshiping the spirits and nature and refuting advanced technologies. Because of this way of life, the Artificer, Cleric, and Paladin classes are not accessible to the Bloodied Hand.
Then, we have the Grove of Light. This faction, akin to the Alliance, is comprised of the more civilized races, as well as races that are variations of half-humans: humans, aasimar, half-elves, genasi, elves, dwarves, halflings, dragonborn, gnomes, and aarakocra. The Grove of Light has a much stronger bond than their rivals, but they are less numerous. These uneven odds are what keep the Grove of Light together, though there are still minor tensions between a few of the races (namely dwarves and elves).
The Grove of Light looks to the future, abandoning the old ways as they distance themselves from the forces of nature that once threatened to smother them out. Because of this way of life, the Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger classes are not accessible to the Grove of Light.
I have some ideas for smaller factions that interact against a given faction (the Cult of the Undying Flame [the dracolich] would affect both factions, Warriors of the Old Way would be a faction against the GoL consisting of lycanthrops, druids, etc., the Mechanus Union would be a faction against the BH consisting of contructs, artificers, etc.), but I would love other suggestions for factions. Thank you all for your help thus far.
If you are going to college you probably won't have much time to create an entire setting, so I would suggest you use the Kryn Dynasty and Dwendalian Empire and set the campaign in Wildemount, since it is pretty much exactly what you described and is already worked out in-depth which makes for a more immersive experience. It also helps figuring out adventures, since setting descriptions are quite inspiring. :-)
As for the PvP part: make sure the players know the other group. Maybe not directly, but make sure they hear of their deeds. That way the fight will be more interesting, since your players will ideally already look forward to finally meeting their nemesis.
Unfortunately there is little you can do to prevent the fight from going "wrong". You have full control of the monsters and NPCs, but when two groups of PCs fight each other, you have to be absolutely neutral, or one of the groups will feel treated unfairly.
Personally I would allow the fight to go wherever it goes and make sure the factions have some clerics ready with Raise Dead spells.
And I would keep the Dracolich hidden until the fight between the PCs is done or almost done. Otherwise it could feel like railroading the players away from their own conflict.
I think you need to understand both why the factions fight, and what brings then together. There must be something that they hate more than the other. I'm thinking of the Blood War. Both demons and devils united against the forces of good, just long enough to win before falling back into conflict.
This commonality should be stressed nearly as much as the divisiveness. Perhaps reinforcing what could bring them together as they strive to dominate their rivals would help in the final battle. There are lots of real world examples to draw from, but without knowing the factions goals, that's all I got.
I would suggest not planning to do all this right as you start college. Make sure you can get all your classes settled and under your belt and have time to study and only then, if you have extra time, do a campaign.
I'm not saying don't do it. I was able to maintain a near-A average for 2 years while GMing a long-term Champions game. So it can be done. But get the time budget for your classes worked out FIRST. Then figure out what time you have for games. And my guess is running TWO side-by-side campaigns is not going to be possible if you want to get good grades and all that.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Not to be too much of a downer, but I wouldn’t count too much on in-person college this fall. But enough about that, on to the D&D part.
You need at least one more faction, with no PCs. It keeps the balance of power issues exponentially more layered, since there’s the opportunity for temporary alliances and backstabbing betrayals. It allows you to have an agent of chaos if you just want to screw with things. And it lets you have a DM faction which can help make course adjustments to the overall narrative if things really start to go off the rails.
Wildemount is good, but I also think the Ravinca setting, with built in faction (guild) warfare, could work well and reduce your prep time
Also, what if both groups you recruit want to be in the same faction?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Hey, all! I hope this thread finds you in good health, despite the world's present circumstance.
So, as the title somewhat explains, I'm a lightly experienced DM, having DMed three short campaigns and a hefty number of one-shots and side sessions. While I've enjoyed the stories I've told over the past fewyears, I have some ideas in mind for campaigns that I believe will wow my players. One of those ideas is more prevalent in my mind, and so I want to plan it out ahead of time, as I'm presently a player in my group while I take a break from DMing. However, my overall goal is a biiiiit zealous, as I will explain in a bit, and I would like some help setting this up.
So, the general theme is this: there are two factions in the world of Malceroth - the Grove of Light, and the Bloodied Hand. These two factions are always at odds with each other, though the intensity of this rivalry has fluctuated over the years (think World of Warcraft). The players would select one of these two factions, which would determine what races and classes they can play, and thus begin their adventure. In the beginning, the players go around doing small quests, like in WoW, until they reached somewhere around mid level, at which point the "main" quest would begin: war is beginning to brew between the factions, and the players are tasked with various missions and quests that will ultimately lead to the big climactic fight.
Here's the main part I need help with: I'm going to college this fall, so I know I won't be able to play this campaign idea with my current players. While at college, I aim to start a group... Or two groups. Yes, two groups. You see, I have this plan in my head: player group A plays one faction, while player group B plays the other. These groups are ran during the same time frame, but they never interact with each other... UNTIL the climactic fight
Yes, I want to do a PvP fight between the two groups, BUT I want to clarify one thing: My aim is NOT to have these two groups fight to the death. Mid fight, I have a boss I want to have awaken and enter the fray. It's a modified dracolich based on Daurgothoth (a CR 50 ancient black dracolich from an older addition of DnD), and once it wakes up, things are going to go south quickly. My plan, and hope, is for the players to team up to fight the dracolich, possibly leading to a truce between the factions. How long the truce lasts is irrelivant... Until the next chapter (foreshadowing me using this set up later).
So there's my problem. Besides building two completely different factions, running two groups in the same world (and not dropping the bomb about either one before the fight), and setting up various quests, how do I run a fight between full parties of players without it going terribly wrong?
Edit-1:
First, I'd like to thank everyone who has replied so far. I know I'm setting the bar high for myself with this one, but I'm not one to back down from a challenge. I have a lot of work ahead of me, and I'm more than thankful for the advice and comments so far. Now, to address them one by one.
I haven't looked into Wildemount or Ravnica, so I'll be sure to take a peek at those when I find the material. I know that Ravnica is very heavy on the faction-vs-faction side of things (I used to play MtG. Izzet fan over here), so I'm sure I can find some inspiration there.
In regards to questions about the parties themselves, I've been thinking over that, and I believe that I'll have to "assign" a faction to each party. I don't want to railroad anybody, but I want to avoid giving one party the faction they want, then handing the other the scraps. Maybe a coin toss before session zero (Heads=BH. Tails=GoL). I tend to be very neutral in regards to PvP, as which ever way the fight goes it's the PCs who can interfere or tidy things up, so I don't aim to favor one side. Also, I had been thinking about the players of one group hearing the exploits of the other, and visa versa, without it becoming too obvious OOC that there's a second PC party. I know that will be a challenge, but I've had some real world experience (not proud of it) keeping things subtle or bluffing.
In regards to college, I know I'm going to have to balance my time wisely. I've been using these current events as a sort of practice run, balancing personal time with housework and schoolwork. My goal, and hope, is to use the usual M-F days for college work, keeping the weekend for my personal time. It's that time that I'd plan to run the campaign. If that doesn't work out, I'll think of something.
Now, for the final part of this post, and likely the longest, I want to explain the factions of Malceroth.
First, we have the Bloodied Hand. This faction, akin to the Horde, is comprised of monstrous races and races that would be seen as outcasts: orcs/half orcs, goblinoids, yuan-ti, goliaths, tieflings, kenkus, and lizardfolk. The Bloodied Hand, compared to their rivals, is more of an uneasy pact between these racial groups, and this plays a role in their political landscape. Despite racial tensions, the races of the Bloodied Hand are bound by the principle of survival, and thus they cooperate well enough to stay together. I'll list their individual struggles at the end of this edit.
Unlike their rivals, the Bloodied Hand is more traditional in their culture and beliefs, worshiping the spirits and nature and refuting advanced technologies. Because of this way of life, the Artificer, Cleric, and Paladin classes are not accessible to the Bloodied Hand.
Then, we have the Grove of Light. This faction, akin to the Alliance, is comprised of the more civilized races, as well as races that are variations of half-humans: humans, aasimar, half-elves, genasi, elves, dwarves, halflings, dragonborn, gnomes, and aarakocra. The Grove of Light has a much stronger bond than their rivals, but they are less numerous. These uneven odds are what keep the Grove of Light together, though there are still minor tensions between a few of the races (namely dwarves and elves).
The Grove of Light looks to the future, abandoning the old ways as they distance themselves from the forces of nature that once threatened to smother them out. Because of this way of life, the Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger classes are not accessible to the Grove of Light.
I have some ideas for smaller factions that interact against a given faction (the Cult of the Undying Flame [the dracolich] would affect both factions, Warriors of the Old Way would be a faction against the GoL consisting of lycanthrops, druids, etc., the Mechanus Union would be a faction against the BH consisting of contructs, artificers, etc.), but I would love other suggestions for factions. Thank you all for your help thus far.
Racial Conflicts:
Human&Elf vs Orc/Half-Orc
Goliath vs Dwarf
Goblinoid vs Dwarf&Halfling
Aasimar vs Tiefling
Yuan-ti&Lizardfolk vs Dragonborn
Kenku vs Aarakocra
If you are going to college you probably won't have much time to create an entire setting, so I would suggest you use the Kryn Dynasty and Dwendalian Empire and set the campaign in Wildemount, since it is pretty much exactly what you described and is already worked out in-depth which makes for a more immersive experience. It also helps figuring out adventures, since setting descriptions are quite inspiring. :-)
As for the PvP part: make sure the players know the other group. Maybe not directly, but make sure they hear of their deeds. That way the fight will be more interesting, since your players will ideally already look forward to finally meeting their nemesis.
Unfortunately there is little you can do to prevent the fight from going "wrong". You have full control of the monsters and NPCs, but when two groups of PCs fight each other, you have to be absolutely neutral, or one of the groups will feel treated unfairly.
Personally I would allow the fight to go wherever it goes and make sure the factions have some clerics ready with Raise Dead spells.
And I would keep the Dracolich hidden until the fight between the PCs is done or almost done. Otherwise it could feel like railroading the players away from their own conflict.
I think you need to understand both why the factions fight, and what brings then together. There must be something that they hate more than the other. I'm thinking of the Blood War. Both demons and devils united against the forces of good, just long enough to win before falling back into conflict.
This commonality should be stressed nearly as much as the divisiveness. Perhaps reinforcing what could bring them together as they strive to dominate their rivals would help in the final battle. There are lots of real world examples to draw from, but without knowing the factions goals, that's all I got.
I would suggest not planning to do all this right as you start college. Make sure you can get all your classes settled and under your belt and have time to study and only then, if you have extra time, do a campaign.
I'm not saying don't do it. I was able to maintain a near-A average for 2 years while GMing a long-term Champions game. So it can be done. But get the time budget for your classes worked out FIRST. Then figure out what time you have for games. And my guess is running TWO side-by-side campaigns is not going to be possible if you want to get good grades and all that.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Not to be too much of a downer, but I wouldn’t count too much on in-person college this fall. But enough about that, on to the D&D part.
You need at least one more faction, with no PCs. It keeps the balance of power issues exponentially more layered, since there’s the opportunity for temporary alliances and backstabbing betrayals. It allows you to have an agent of chaos if you just want to screw with things. And it lets you have a DM faction which can help make course adjustments to the overall narrative if things really start to go off the rails.
Wildemount is good, but I also think the Ravinca setting, with built in faction (guild) warfare, could work well and reduce your prep time
Also, what if both groups you recruit want to be in the same faction?