So my party has both a Ranger and a Druid (Moon Circle) in it. Both of them are reliant on Wisdom rolls, Nature, Survival, etc.
In battle, the characters are mechanically different enough that they work in synergy and don't step on each-other's toes. The Ranger is a new player so they are basically just a Bow Fighter with a wisdom flavor since they are timid about using their spells. Druid is fully leaning into casting and their wildshape. We are good there.
For basic checks though I am running into the problem of the Druid doing everything the Ranger can do and always volunteering to do so. The Ranger is often left feeling superfluous to the party since the Druid also has a herbalism kit so they can't even gather herbs, since the Druid will also take care of that.
Usually I have a rule inspired by Matt Colville to only allow those who are proficient in a skill to roll a check so that everyone gets to use their relevant skills and not dogpile rolls ("Can I roll perception?" "Can I try rolling?" "I'm going to roll Perception too") but because the Ranger and Druid have similar proficiencies, it becomes a moot point.
What are some things that Rangers can do that Druids can't? How do I emphasize the Ranger's strengths outside of combat to give them a more defined role in the party?
You really don't have to take any extra steps to distinguish them. Even if they had the exact same skills, they can team up on a task for better results or work on different things at the same time. One person can't simultaneously be tracking, navigating, drawing a map, foraging, and keeping an eye out for danger.
For whatever it's worth Rangers are more suited to tracking some creatures and leading the party through some types of terrain thanks to Hunter's Mark, Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
Here is where you can use your influence as a DM for these things.
you can perhaps give the ranger a map of specific areas that he knows where he will get advantage on his throws when navigating there. or perhaps giving him an item that would sligthy increase his survival to make it more appealing to the party that he will do those checks. example: spyglass of navigation +2 on survival.
you could also have the party establish roles, claiming that the ranger will be the navigator and the druid the forester or healer and have your delegated players roll those checks.
another option is by having each of their same proficients have different wieght
exmaple priest of fire god kossuth and cleric of water god istishia
if the priest of the fire god with a religion of +7 tries to roll for a water diety he will need a DC of 20 while the cleric of water diety will only need a 15 since his knowalge about the water diety is much better
so your ranger might have easier rolls in rocky terrain while the druid has better in forests the ranger has better trapping skills while the druid can comunnicate better with animals.
You really don't have to take any extra steps to distinguish them. Even if they had the exact same skills, they can team up on a task for better results or work on different things at the same time. One person can't simultaneously be tracking, navigating, drawing a map, foraging, and keeping an eye out for danger.
For whatever it's worth Rangers are more suited to tracking some creatures and leading the party through some types of terrain thanks to Hunter's Mark, Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
They work together sometimes but mostly the Druid wants to take charge and lead the party, and will be often competitive with the Ranger over getting to do every single nature-related check.
Since I'm not part of your RP group, I can only suppose a few things and offer general suggestions from there. Is the Druid player a very competitive person in general, or just in this situation? If the latter, try to find out why via a one-on-one private discussion and ask for them to chill a bit If the former, then see next paragraph.
You might try getting more into the details of each PC's backstory, focusing esp. on the Ranger's. Be intentional about building more plot relevant points that tie into her/his backstory so that the player will feel more a part of that narrative world and important to the progress of the party.
You might also consider giving the Ranger an extra tool use proficiency that can be relevant to the campaign. Not being a Rogue or Bard, this should not tip things too far in favor of the Ranger's skillset most of the time.
Since I'm not part of your RP group, I can only suppose a few things and offer general suggestions from there. Is the Druid player a very competitive person in general, or just in this situation? If the latter, try to find out why via a one-on-one private discussion and ask for them to chill a bit If the former, then see next paragraph.
You might try getting more into the details of each PC's backstory, focusing esp. on the Ranger's. Be intentional about building more plot relevant points that tie into her/his backstory so that the player will feel more a part of that narrative world and important to the progress of the party.
You might also consider giving the Ranger an extra tool use proficiency that can be relevant to the campaign. Not being a Rogue or Bard, this should not tip things too far in favor of the Ranger's skillset most of the time.
I really like the idea of giving them an extra tool proficiency. They actually communicated to me they may want to multi-class into Sorcerer (part of their backstory) so maybe an Alchemist kit would be cool!
Also the Druid is a bit competitive, yes. I am going to be using some emotional safety rules taken from LARP from this point forward since there is some party in-fighting that can get a bit intense. Everyone is cool OOC though!
Since the druid is "competitive" you can be assured that he is going to be the first to raise his hand to roll checks for w.e. his character "would " do before the ranger will.
Sometimes subtly implementing an economy of checks is enough to allow the ranger to have a chance. You should also help him along since he's a new player, by letting him know when an opportunity to roll is there...
(ie. Druid tries to tame an animal but he just spent the last hour of travel foraging for herbs. His DC to tame the animal might be slightly higher than the ranger who did nothing while traveling. If the Druid fails to tame the animal you can then tell the ranger "You as a ranger see the druid struggling to tame the animal, and may possibly have a different method to taming the animal. Would you like to give it a shot?" if he then succeeds "You see where the druid is failing and take a different approach to taming this animal. The animal is receptive to you and you successfully tamed it")
I find that with new players, it helps them get into the game by "suggesting" some key moments to them for rolling. After doing that a few times, they get the hang of it and even if their skills are duplicated by another player, they tend to want to be involved more and are more open to saying thing like.. "While the druid is looking for herbs, I want to also forage but specifically looking for fresh water."
You really don't have to take any extra steps to distinguish them. Even if they had the exact same skills, they can team up on a task for better results or work on different things at the same time. One person can't simultaneously be tracking, navigating, drawing a map, foraging, and keeping an eye out for danger.
For whatever it's worth Rangers are more suited to tracking some creatures and leading the party through some types of terrain thanks to Hunter's Mark, Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
This. Very important and something a lot of DM's have trouble with, I've noticed.
Might not be an issue you're having, but if it is, keep it in mind. You'll have a player that says "I do this, then this, then this" and you'll be tempted to say "This is the result of all those things;" don't do that. Instead say "okay, while you're spending time doing the first thing which will take probably [x] minutes, what are the rest of you doing?"
If it helps with your players (especially the "competitive" one) remember that the DM calls for rolls from the players, the players don't get to decide when they want to roll. A little harsh? Probably. But it sounds like your players need the control measure.
So my party has both a Ranger and a Druid (Moon Circle) in it. Both of them are reliant on Wisdom rolls, Nature, Survival, etc.
In battle, the characters are mechanically different enough that they work in synergy and don't step on each-other's toes. The Ranger is a new player so they are basically just a Bow Fighter with a wisdom flavor since they are timid about using their spells. Druid is fully leaning into casting and their wildshape. We are good there.
For basic checks though I am running into the problem of the Druid doing everything the Ranger can do and always volunteering to do so. The Ranger is often left feeling superfluous to the party since the Druid also has a herbalism kit so they can't even gather herbs, since the Druid will also take care of that.
Usually I have a rule inspired by Matt Colville to only allow those who are proficient in a skill to roll a check so that everyone gets to use their relevant skills and not dogpile rolls ("Can I roll perception?" "Can I try rolling?" "I'm going to roll Perception too") but because the Ranger and Druid have similar proficiencies, it becomes a moot point.
What are some things that Rangers can do that Druids can't? How do I emphasize the Ranger's strengths outside of combat to give them a more defined role in the party?
You really don't have to take any extra steps to distinguish them. Even if they had the exact same skills, they can team up on a task for better results or work on different things at the same time. One person can't simultaneously be tracking, navigating, drawing a map, foraging, and keeping an eye out for danger.
For whatever it's worth Rangers are more suited to tracking some creatures and leading the party through some types of terrain thanks to Hunter's Mark, Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Hello dragonbride.
Here is where you can use your influence as a DM for these things.
you can perhaps give the ranger a map of specific areas that he knows where he will get advantage on his throws when navigating there.
or perhaps giving him an item that would sligthy increase his survival to make it more appealing to the party that he will do those checks.
example: spyglass of navigation +2 on survival.
you could also have the party establish roles, claiming that the ranger will be the navigator and the druid the forester or healer and have your delegated players roll those checks.
another option is by having each of their same proficients have different wieght
exmaple
priest of fire god kossuth
and cleric of water god istishia
if the priest of the fire god with a religion of +7 tries to roll for a water diety he will need a DC of 20
while the cleric of water diety will only need a 15 since his knowalge about the water diety is much better
so your ranger might have easier rolls in rocky terrain while the druid has better in forests
the ranger has better trapping skills while the druid can comunnicate better with animals.
They work together sometimes but mostly the Druid wants to take charge and lead the party, and will be often competitive with the Ranger over getting to do every single nature-related check.
They should be helping each other so they have advantage on every nature related skill check!
Professional computer geek
Since I'm not part of your RP group, I can only suppose a few things and offer general suggestions from there. Is the Druid player a very competitive person in general, or just in this situation? If the latter, try to find out why via a one-on-one private discussion and ask for them to chill a bit If the former, then see next paragraph.
You might try getting more into the details of each PC's backstory, focusing esp. on the Ranger's. Be intentional about building more plot relevant points that tie into her/his backstory so that the player will feel more a part of that narrative world and important to the progress of the party.
You might also consider giving the Ranger an extra tool use proficiency that can be relevant to the campaign. Not being a Rogue or Bard, this should not tip things too far in favor of the Ranger's skillset most of the time.
I really like the idea of giving them an extra tool proficiency. They actually communicated to me they may want to multi-class into Sorcerer (part of their backstory) so maybe an Alchemist kit would be cool!
Also the Druid is a bit competitive, yes. I am going to be using some emotional safety rules taken from LARP from this point forward since there is some party in-fighting that can get a bit intense. Everyone is cool OOC though!
Since the druid is "competitive" you can be assured that he is going to be the first to raise his hand to roll checks for w.e. his character "would " do before the ranger will.
Sometimes subtly implementing an economy of checks is enough to allow the ranger to have a chance. You should also help him along since he's a new player, by letting him know when an opportunity to roll is there...
(ie. Druid tries to tame an animal but he just spent the last hour of travel foraging for herbs. His DC to tame the animal might be slightly higher than the ranger who did nothing while traveling. If the Druid fails to tame the animal you can then tell the ranger "You as a ranger see the druid struggling to tame the animal, and may possibly have a different method to taming the animal. Would you like to give it a shot?" if he then succeeds "You see where the druid is failing and take a different approach to taming this animal. The animal is receptive to you and you successfully tamed it")
I find that with new players, it helps them get into the game by "suggesting" some key moments to them for rolling. After doing that a few times, they get the hang of it and even if their skills are duplicated by another player, they tend to want to be involved more and are more open to saying thing like.. "While the druid is looking for herbs, I want to also forage but specifically looking for fresh water."
DM - Beyond the Veil
This. Very important and something a lot of DM's have trouble with, I've noticed.
Might not be an issue you're having, but if it is, keep it in mind. You'll have a player that says "I do this, then this, then this" and you'll be tempted to say "This is the result of all those things;" don't do that. Instead say "okay, while you're spending time doing the first thing which will take probably [x] minutes, what are the rest of you doing?"
If it helps with your players (especially the "competitive" one) remember that the DM calls for rolls from the players, the players don't get to decide when they want to roll. A little harsh? Probably. But it sounds like your players need the control measure.