So, my players have recently found in the Plane of the Dead at level 12. As they are absolutely going to die if they don't have a guide, one very powerful monster NPC that they met before is going to help them along. This NPC won't be able to help them with some challenges that will attack their minds and wills, but it will be able to help them with any battles they have against the creatures of the Plane.
Problem is, I can't find any guides on how to balance combat when one of the people on the party is a CR X creature instead of a player (maybe I just missed them). Some creatures say that the character is an Nth level fighter or caster, but not this one. Current ideas are:
Try to make a conversion of the monster card to a character sheet with an actual class and whatnot, and balance encounters based on that approximation. This would be difficult, as it has plenty of abilities that don't map to any PC skill.
Get the XP the monster would give if killed and remove from either total or adjusted XP, and calculate the difficulty based on that. Not sure how this would handle combat against multiple enemies.
For determining xp threshold, I'd make the monster's xp its deadly amount, 3/4 of its xp its hard amount, 1/2 of its xp its medium amount, and 1/4 of its xp its hard amount.
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"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
As they are absolutely going to die if they don't have a guide, one very powerful monster NPC that they met before is going to help them along.
I think it depends on why are they absolute going to die? Will they not be able to navigate this plane? Are the creatures native to that plane substantially more powerful than the party? Is there some sort of environmental effect that makes it incredibly hard to survive as characters from the material plane? I think answering 'what is the biggest challenge for the PCs?' and 'why is this NPC helping them?' will help you come up with a solution that works from both a narrative and mechanics standpoint.
I agree with Lyxen, having an NPC that is heavily over-powered in relation to the party going into combat with them might not be a great idea, and I think those are some good options to use. If the tension for this part of the campaign is that the players have found themselves in an area that's really above their weight class then having some NPC evening that out might really deflate that tension and make it less dramatic.
Some other options you could try - maybe the powerful NPC can't actually go with them the entire time and sends a minion to act as a guide to party but it won't help in combat, maybe it guides the party but in combat its 'off-screen' making sure other boss monsters don't stomp the party - however - it cant stop smaller monsters from swarming the party so they still have challenging combat on their own.
Apart from the technical computations which are as you point out always hazardous, it's a bad thing to do. The game is supposed to be about the PCs, and having the spotlight hogged by an NPC for an extended length of time is probably not something that your players will appreciate.
I agree wholeheartedly, which is why most challenges won't be physical, but as they travel and meet their own internal demons, people they've killed in the past and the parts of the plane who thinks they are dead and therefore be the subject of the same punishment as the dead in there. Combat will be a smaller part of this section of the adventure.
However, there will still be plenty of beings that roam and guard the place, which the players will need to avoid or fight.
Considering the environment, I would suggest that the creatures coming at the PC emit some sort of death aura, and that the NPC has to concentrate all the time and use his action to do so to ward the PCs against that aura. This would free you from the above computations and actually make combat more interesting because the PCs have to protect the NPC. If he loses concentration, bad things will happen to the PCs.
Or maybe, instead of protecting the PCs (and depending on the adversaries), the concentrating NPC wil buff them and give them enough power to overcome their foes. But just as above, if the NPC is hit/disturbed, the PCs will flounder.
To make things even more challenging, make the protection or the buff last only a set (or even random) number of rounds, after which the NPC mush himself cast a spell for one round, which leaves the PCs open or vulnerable, requiring them to take appropriate measures at the time.
Hum, this makes a lot of sense. That gave me the idea that the first time they fight something, the enemies could do exhaustion in addition to the damage (or some other incredibly bad debuff), which is when the NPC realizes that they need this sort of protection and proceeds to remove themselves from the equation, by staying out of combat using her concentration to stop this debuff from happening.
On the front of her giving them more power, I feel like this would be difficult, lore-wise. This creature that is helping them is from this plane, but got plucked from it after a planar accident, so her abilities focus more of sucking powers out than giving it. But, since she was pulled from the plane when she was young, she only has some notion of how the whole place works, which will make the players still have to make their own choices and keep it player-centric
As they are absolutely going to die if they don't have a guide, one very powerful monster NPC that they met before is going to help them along.
I think it depends on why are they absolute going to die? Will they not be able to navigate this plane? Are the creatures native to that plane substantially more powerful than the party? Is there some sort of environmental effect that makes it incredibly hard to survive as characters from the material plane? I think answering 'what is the biggest challenge for the PCs?' and 'why is this NPC helping them?' will help you come up with a solution that works from both a narrative and mechanics standpoint.
All of the above. Each area has a different way of punishing the dead, which will also affect them, and very powerful creatures roam the place. The first I can balance the DCs and damage, the second is where I am stuck.
The NPC is helping them because she was plucked from this plane as a cub, and never new where her "home" was. When they arrive, she can feel it through a pact that they made with her, and will appear through them. She wants to find where in this place she came from, and will help the players in the meanwhile as they have been good customers of hers while she was still in their plane.
I agree with Lyxen, having an NPC that is heavily over-powered in relation to the party going into combat with them might not be a great idea, and I think those are some good options to use. If the tension for this part of the campaign is that the players have found themselves in an area that's really above their weight class then having some NPC evening that out might really deflate that tension and make it less dramatic.
Some other options you could try - maybe the powerful NPC can't actually go with them the entire time and sends a minion to act as a guide to party but it won't help in combat, maybe it guides the party but in combat its 'off-screen' making sure other boss monsters don't stomp the party - however - it cant stop smaller monsters from swarming the party so they still have challenging combat on their own.
Yeah, having if fight the big monster while the players deal with the underlings is something that I thought about, but it only works a couple of times before the players understand what is going on.
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So, my players have recently found in the Plane of the Dead at level 12. As they are absolutely going to die if they don't have a guide, one very powerful monster NPC that they met before is going to help them along. This NPC won't be able to help them with some challenges that will attack their minds and wills, but it will be able to help them with any battles they have against the creatures of the Plane.
Problem is, I can't find any guides on how to balance combat when one of the people on the party is a CR X creature instead of a player (maybe I just missed them). Some creatures say that the character is an Nth level fighter or caster, but not this one. Current ideas are:
Any thoughts on how to better handle that?
For determining xp threshold, I'd make the monster's xp its deadly amount, 3/4 of its xp its hard amount, 1/2 of its xp its medium amount, and 1/4 of its xp its hard amount.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
I think it depends on why are they absolute going to die? Will they not be able to navigate this plane? Are the creatures native to that plane substantially more powerful than the party? Is there some sort of environmental effect that makes it incredibly hard to survive as characters from the material plane? I think answering 'what is the biggest challenge for the PCs?' and 'why is this NPC helping them?' will help you come up with a solution that works from both a narrative and mechanics standpoint.
I agree with Lyxen, having an NPC that is heavily over-powered in relation to the party going into combat with them might not be a great idea, and I think those are some good options to use. If the tension for this part of the campaign is that the players have found themselves in an area that's really above their weight class then having some NPC evening that out might really deflate that tension and make it less dramatic.
Some other options you could try - maybe the powerful NPC can't actually go with them the entire time and sends a minion to act as a guide to party but it won't help in combat, maybe it guides the party but in combat its 'off-screen' making sure other boss monsters don't stomp the party - however - it cant stop smaller monsters from swarming the party so they still have challenging combat on their own.
I agree wholeheartedly, which is why most challenges won't be physical, but as they travel and meet their own internal demons, people they've killed in the past and the parts of the plane who thinks they are dead and therefore be the subject of the same punishment as the dead in there. Combat will be a smaller part of this section of the adventure.
However, there will still be plenty of beings that roam and guard the place, which the players will need to avoid or fight.
Hum, this makes a lot of sense. That gave me the idea that the first time they fight something, the enemies could do exhaustion in addition to the damage (or some other incredibly bad debuff), which is when the NPC realizes that they need this sort of protection and proceeds to remove themselves from the equation, by staying out of combat using her concentration to stop this debuff from happening.
On the front of her giving them more power, I feel like this would be difficult, lore-wise. This creature that is helping them is from this plane, but got plucked from it after a planar accident, so her abilities focus more of sucking powers out than giving it. But, since she was pulled from the plane when she was young, she only has some notion of how the whole place works, which will make the players still have to make their own choices and keep it player-centric
All of the above. Each area has a different way of punishing the dead, which will also affect them, and very powerful creatures roam the place. The first I can balance the DCs and damage, the second is where I am stuck.
The NPC is helping them because she was plucked from this plane as a cub, and never new where her "home" was. When they arrive, she can feel it through a pact that they made with her, and will appear through them. She wants to find where in this place she came from, and will help the players in the meanwhile as they have been good customers of hers while she was still in their plane.
Yeah, having if fight the big monster while the players deal with the underlings is something that I thought about, but it only works a couple of times before the players understand what is going on.