I have an upcoming campaign planned but am wondering if I should use the rolling rules or an advanced standard array?
I've have my personal problems with Rolling in the past with some characters being underwhelming or other that are overwhelming. For example, a character who's highest stat was 12, then another who had three 17's. It makes me feel as if it's heavily unbalanced and can lead to unsatisfying character mixes.
On the other hand, I was planning to use an Advances Standard Array (17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8) but some past players have argued that it takes away from the character creation and would make people feel less connected to their characters.
I am interested in the thoughts of other DM's and am curious about your thoughts on Rolling vs Standard for Stats.
If you are concerned about rolling generating too wild of a variation between characters, you can set a min or max total score and allow/force a reroll if the players generate a score that is too high or low. For reference, the Standard Array total score is 72. So you could say, a rolled array of 68 or less would allow a reroll if the player wanted, and score of over 78 would force a reroll (or a DM adjustment of stats) (or something similar). 10 points of difference shouldn't be too wildly swingy in total power level.
Personally, I don't allow a stat above 18 at level 1, after racial/lineage mods are taken into account. The advances standard array could allow for a possible starting score of 19 (though rolled could get a 20 if someone rolls 3 sixes).
Ask the players what they would prefer. Some people (myself included) like the potential for overpowered or hilariously underpowered characters that comes with rolling, and some players prefer not to take the risk and take the standard array. If the players all agree on using one method, great, they can use that method. If they don’t all agree on the same method, I would rule that each player use their preferred method, and the players who roll have a min or max total score, like iconarising suggested.
If you roll you could have everyone roll and then let them pick which set of rolls to use, so they could all pick the same set if they wanted, would reduce the odds of you having one of the party with really poor rolls that feels like they are dead weight.
If you roll you could have everyone roll and then let them pick which set of rolls to use, so they could all pick the same set if they wanted, would reduce the odds of you having one of the party with really poor rolls that feels like they are dead weight.
I like this. It's basically like generating a set of randomized Standard Arrays and saying to the players, "Pick the standard array you want." You get the randomization but you don't have the chance of one person being screwed by the RNG deities. They can all use "Bob's array" if they want, and if they don't, and choose to keep their own (which I bet a lot of them will -- they will feel like it is "theirs"), then they shouldn't complain because they chose to keep it rather than to use Bob's.
EDIT: You might want to add your own as a possible Standard Array to pick, and use the one you mentioned, the 17-15-... one.
Have you considered some sort of point-buy system? That seems to be the best of both worlds and solves the biggest problem I have come to recognize with rolling stats; some players get above average stats and some get below average. A point buy gives the players more freedom to create their character but keeps everyone in the same zone together. If you are concerned about min-max then limit the PB to no more than one 17 and no more than one 15. This would fit into your templet for stats.
Good luck.
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Woodbear, there is a 20 plus page thread in General that has been going on for days about this.
I am all for a standard array, modified or not, or some point buy system. But ALL players use the same system, and no randomizing of rolls allowed. I suppose the group all using the same set of rolls allows for a common starting point, but as a DM, you will have to aware that your players are going to be uber-powerful coming out of the gate. If they all roll a set, someone will be really lucky. That is just probability distribution.
Roll, but if a player gets nothing of 15 or above, let them increase their lowest roll to 15.
That defeats the entire purpose of the randomized system, by establishing a floor. I hate any form of randomized system, and this is one of the reasons why. Players want the benefits of such a system, but none of the drawbacks.
My group prefers to roll for stats. The DM who started the group is suuuuuuuuuuper generous with rolls... she goes by the roll 4d6, drop the lowest, then also has everyone roll one additional group of 4d6 and drop the lowest from that. I used that same system because I just kind of ran with what everyone already knew, but it really stacked the deck in their favor. They completely steamrolled through Lost Mines of Phandelver. I had to up the HP/AC of important enemies just so they didn't get wiped in one round and make the whole thing feel like a farce.
Something I'd be interested in, but haven't tried yet, is letting everyone simply roll for stats, and anyone who's not happy with their roll can swap for Standard Array instead. That way players who are willing, and perhaps even eager, to lean into a weaker character can have that experience, but those who don't want to for one reason or another can have a standard, fairly balanced character instead.
Let‘s say you have 4 players. Each player rolls a set of 6x(4d6 drop lowest) like usual, and put all 24 random stats into one statpool. Now you go around the table and everyone can take 1 stat of their choice from the pool. Once the round is complete, you reverse the direction and do the next round. Reverse and repeat untill everyone got 6 stats from the pool.
It will be random, but still balanced within the party.
If some players feel one way, why not let them choose their method. But if they choose to roll and get weak stats, they have to go with that.
For a campaign, personally, I would avoid rolled stats for that reason. It's fun for a one-shot to play unusually weak or unusually powerful characters. But I wouldn't want to be stuck with an underpowered character for a long time.
I let my players pick, but if they roll below a total of 70 we scrap the roll and start over, plus I allow them to swap out their second lowest score for a 16 if they roll poorly. I think it is better for players to have one bad stat they can lean into for roleplay.
My group prefers to roll for stats. The DM who started the group is suuuuuuuuuuper generous with rolls... she goes by the roll 4d6, drop the lowest, then also has everyone roll one additional group of 4d6 and drop the lowest from that. I used that same system because I just kind of ran with what everyone already knew, but it really stacked the deck in their favor. They completely steamrolled through Lost Mines of Phandelver. I had to up the HP/AC of important enemies just so they didn't get wiped in one round and make the whole thing feel like a farce.
Something I'd be interested in, but haven't tried yet, is letting everyone simply roll for stats, and anyone who's not happy with their roll can swap for Standard Array instead. That way players who are willing, and perhaps even eager, to lean into a weaker character can have that experience, but those who don't want to for one reason or another can have a standard, fairly balanced character instead.
I will say that from experience lost mines can be easy for a generated party regardless of how good the rolls are, anything other then the 4 pre generated characters can find the encounters a bit easy I have had to tweak it almost every time I have run it for PHB generated characters.
In terms of the roll 4 drop the lowest. I have 2 approaches, either the player and I keep track of what is rolled every time, I will then allow him to reroll individual dice once all 6 stats I’d they roll badly. However if a players rolls all 6 stats really well I also make them drop the highest dice from one roll. The groups I play in we all like having one low stat to lean into for roleplay.
Another approach I have taken is to roll 24 dice, remove the lowest 6 and then distribute the scores as they want across the 6 stats.
On the other hand, I was planning to use an Advances Standard Array (17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8) but some past players have argued that it takes away from the character creation and would make people feel less connected to their characters.
That sounds like people who are hoping to game the 4d6 dice method to discount very low sets of numbers to maximise their character.
Any sort of fixed array (or other way of producing a single set of 6 numbers) for all the characters in the same campaign provides the most balanced starting point.
Sorry for necroing this post but I just happened upon here while searching for something else. I am a "co-dm" because I am new as compared to the other players at my table that said. The main DM who I am assisting told me to make some of the rules for our upcoming game.
I let everyone roll if the first roll combined numbers were less than 72, which is the value of stats combined of standard array, they rolled again. Once anyone got more than 72, everyone got to use those numbers.
For example, one of the players rolled a 12/17/16/10/17/11, a total of 83, on his first try.
Everyone had to use those numbers but obviously place them in the stat block that would make sense for their class. Funny enough, I found out that this way is similar to how Matt Mercer had everyone roll for stats when he started Vox Machina. Anyway, I know this is old, but it may help others in the future with similar questions.
I have an upcoming campaign planned but am wondering if I should use the rolling rules or an advanced standard array?
I've have my personal problems with Rolling in the past with some characters being underwhelming or other that are overwhelming. For example, a character who's highest stat was 12, then another who had three 17's. It makes me feel as if it's heavily unbalanced and can lead to unsatisfying character mixes.
On the other hand, I was planning to use an Advances Standard Array (17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8) but some past players have argued that it takes away from the character creation and would make people feel less connected to their characters.
I am interested in the thoughts of other DM's and am curious about your thoughts on Rolling vs Standard for Stats.
If you are concerned about rolling generating too wild of a variation between characters, you can set a min or max total score and allow/force a reroll if the players generate a score that is too high or low. For reference, the Standard Array total score is 72. So you could say, a rolled array of 68 or less would allow a reroll if the player wanted, and score of over 78 would force a reroll (or a DM adjustment of stats) (or something similar). 10 points of difference shouldn't be too wildly swingy in total power level.
Personally, I don't allow a stat above 18 at level 1, after racial/lineage mods are taken into account. The advances standard array could allow for a possible starting score of 19 (though rolled could get a 20 if someone rolls 3 sixes).
Ask the players what they would prefer. Some people (myself included) like the potential for overpowered or hilariously underpowered characters that comes with rolling, and some players prefer not to take the risk and take the standard array. If the players all agree on using one method, great, they can use that method. If they don’t all agree on the same method, I would rule that each player use their preferred method, and the players who roll have a min or max total score, like iconarising suggested.
If you roll you could have everyone roll and then let them pick which set of rolls to use, so they could all pick the same set if they wanted, would reduce the odds of you having one of the party with really poor rolls that feels like they are dead weight.
I like this. It's basically like generating a set of randomized Standard Arrays and saying to the players, "Pick the standard array you want." You get the randomization but you don't have the chance of one person being screwed by the RNG deities. They can all use "Bob's array" if they want, and if they don't, and choose to keep their own (which I bet a lot of them will -- they will feel like it is "theirs"), then they shouldn't complain because they chose to keep it rather than to use Bob's.
EDIT: You might want to add your own as a possible Standard Array to pick, and use the one you mentioned, the 17-15-... one.
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Have you considered some sort of point-buy system? That seems to be the best of both worlds and solves the biggest problem I have come to recognize with rolling stats; some players get above average stats and some get below average. A point buy gives the players more freedom to create their character but keeps everyone in the same zone together. If you are concerned about min-max then limit the PB to no more than one 17 and no more than one 15. This would fit into your templet for stats.
Good luck.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Woodbear, there is a 20 plus page thread in General that has been going on for days about this.
I am all for a standard array, modified or not, or some point buy system. But ALL players use the same system, and no randomizing of rolls allowed. I suppose the group all using the same set of rolls allows for a common starting point, but as a DM, you will have to aware that your players are going to be uber-powerful coming out of the gate. If they all roll a set, someone will be really lucky. That is just probability distribution.
Roll, but if a player gets nothing of 15 or above, let them increase their lowest roll to 15.
That defeats the entire purpose of the randomized system, by establishing a floor. I hate any form of randomized system, and this is one of the reasons why. Players want the benefits of such a system, but none of the drawbacks.
My group prefers to roll for stats. The DM who started the group is suuuuuuuuuuper generous with rolls... she goes by the roll 4d6, drop the lowest, then also has everyone roll one additional group of 4d6 and drop the lowest from that. I used that same system because I just kind of ran with what everyone already knew, but it really stacked the deck in their favor. They completely steamrolled through Lost Mines of Phandelver. I had to up the HP/AC of important enemies just so they didn't get wiped in one round and make the whole thing feel like a farce.
Something I'd be interested in, but haven't tried yet, is letting everyone simply roll for stats, and anyone who's not happy with their roll can swap for Standard Array instead. That way players who are willing, and perhaps even eager, to lean into a weaker character can have that experience, but those who don't want to for one reason or another can have a standard, fairly balanced character instead.
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Let‘s say you have 4 players. Each player rolls a set of 6x(4d6 drop lowest) like usual, and put all 24 random stats into one statpool. Now you go around the table and everyone can take 1 stat of their choice from the pool. Once the round is complete, you reverse the direction and do the next round. Reverse and repeat untill everyone got 6 stats from the pool.
It will be random, but still balanced within the party.
If some players feel one way, why not let them choose their method. But if they choose to roll and get weak stats, they have to go with that.
For a campaign, personally, I would avoid rolled stats for that reason. It's fun for a one-shot to play unusually weak or unusually powerful characters. But I wouldn't want to be stuck with an underpowered character for a long time.
I let my players pick, but if they roll below a total of 70 we scrap the roll and start over, plus I allow them to swap out their second lowest score for a 16 if they roll poorly. I think it is better for players to have one bad stat they can lean into for roleplay.
I will say that from experience lost mines can be easy for a generated party regardless of how good the rolls are, anything other then the 4 pre generated characters can find the encounters a bit easy I have had to tweak it almost every time I have run it for PHB generated characters.
In terms of the roll 4 drop the lowest. I have 2 approaches, either the player and I keep track of what is rolled every time, I will then allow him to reroll individual dice once all 6 stats I’d they roll badly. However if a players rolls all 6 stats really well I also make them drop the highest dice from one roll. The groups I play in we all like having one low stat to lean into for roleplay.
Another approach I have taken is to roll 24 dice, remove the lowest 6 and then distribute the scores as they want across the 6 stats.
Roll> one reroll of a stat> if you don't like it take standard array
That sounds like people who are hoping to game the 4d6 dice method to discount very low sets of numbers to maximise their character.
Any sort of fixed array (or other way of producing a single set of 6 numbers) for all the characters in the same campaign provides the most balanced starting point.
I'm pretty sure OP has come to a conclusion within the last 2 years, guys
[REDACTED]
nuhuh
Dammit. Caught by that stupid necro again - usually I ignore threads started more a few months ago!
Sorry for necroing this post but I just happened upon here while searching for something else. I am a "co-dm" because I am new as compared to the other players at my table that said. The main DM who I am assisting told me to make some of the rules for our upcoming game.
I let everyone roll if the first roll combined numbers were less than 72, which is the value of stats combined of standard array, they rolled again. Once anyone got more than 72, everyone got to use those numbers.
For example, one of the players rolled a 12/17/16/10/17/11, a total of 83, on his first try.
Everyone had to use those numbers but obviously place them in the stat block that would make sense for their class. Funny enough, I found out that this way is similar to how Matt Mercer had everyone roll for stats when he started Vox Machina. Anyway, I know this is old, but it may help others in the future with similar questions.