So I'm having trouble with the spell identify. According to JC its NOT supposed to identify Curses on items. But if it can't do that... Then I don't see the point of it?

When you take the short rest to attune to an item you learn its properties (right?) So identify just lets you learn without taking a short rest?

So if I'm right, the benefits of Identifying vs Just Attuning are just, "ID is shorter." I suppose this is a good enough reason to use it in theory but lets talk at the actual table:

First thing I've noticed: More often than not, Identify is cast using Ritual Casting (10Min) because most spellcasters don't want to waste a prepare slot on ID

Second thing: There are VERY few opportunities where the party has 10min to spare on ID and can't take a SR to attune to the item. YES in a real world situation being able to do something in 10 minutes is very different than an hour, but if we're being honest, in Table-Top-Land both durations are about the same. Unless a strict time table was pre-established for whatever the party is doing, I find it very unlikely that the DM Would  differentiate much between 10 minutes and an hour.

So If ID doesn't find curses, and you can learn everything you would with ID by just attuning, I feel like ID isn't very useful.

I'm thinking of introducing a slight edit to ID: Allow it to determine that an item IS cursed, but not the extent/effects of the curse.

What do you all think? If there's something wrong with my thinking let me know! I'm open to changing my mind!

Quote from LeBattery >>

So I'm having trouble with the spell identify. According to JC its NOT supposed to identify Curses on items. But if it can't do that... Then I don't see the point of it?

When you take the short rest to attune to an item you learn its properties (right?) So identify just lets you learn without taking a short rest?

So if I'm right, the benefits of Identifying vs Just Attuning are just, "ID is shorter." I suppose this is a good enough reason to use it in theory but lets talk at the actual table:

 

First thing I've noticed: More often than not, Identify is cast using Ritual Casting (10Min) because most spellcasters don't want to waste a prepare slot on ID

Second thing: There are VERY few opportunities where the party has 10min to spare on ID and can't take a SR to attune to the item. YES in a real world situation being able to do something in 10 minutes is very different than an hour, but if we're being honest, in Table-Top-Land both durations are about the same. Unless a strict time table was pre-established for whatever the party is doing, I find it very unlikely that the DM Would  differentiate much between 10 minutes and an hour.

So If ID doesn't find curses, and you can learn everything you would with ID by just attuning, I feel like ID isn't very useful.

I'm thinking of introducing a slight edit to ID: Allow it to determine that an item IS cursed, but not the extent/effects of the curse.

What do you all think? If there's something wrong with my thinking let me know! I'm open to changing my mind!

 

How about identifying an item that they suspect is magical, that an NPC is wearing? i.e. they have no opportunity to attune to it.

The king has unusual sway over his subjects, and despite being obviously evil/unsuited to the job, there is absolutely no dissent in the kingdom. You've described his crown as unusual looking in some way. Stealing the crown isn't an option, but they can get in and out of room it's stored in. If the party casts identify on the crown, it reveals magical properties that are keeping the kingdom in thrall.

Quote from DougLanglois >>

 

How about identifying an item that they suspect is magical, that an NPC is wearing? i.e. they have no opportunity to attune to it.

The king has unusual sway over his subjects, and despite being obviously evil/unsuited to the job, there is absolutely no dissent in the kingdom. You've described his crown as unusual looking in some way. Stealing the crown isn't an option, but they can get in and out of room it's stored in. If the party casts identify on the crown, it reveals magical properties that are keeping the kingdom in thrall.

 Wouldn't detect magic be better for that though only takes a few seconds, can do it outside of eyesight and has a decent range? ID takes a minute to cast and the range is "touch" and I doubt anyone using a secret magic item is going to let you hold on to it for a minute while you chant and move your arms and wand around. 

I will say from that though, that made me think of another use! it works really well with narrative items! so like a McGuffin that doesn't look like anything special revealed to be a magic key or something.

Detect Magic says something is magical, but it doesn't say what it does:

The mundane route of learning about a magical item requires 1 short rest to learn its properties, and 1 additional short rest to attune to it if that is required.  So 2 short rests to potentially use a magic item requiring attunement.  The DMG does not allow identification and attunement to occur at the same time.

Identify takes 1 minute to cast (11 if cast as a ritual) and eliminates the first short rest.  So that means that 1) you know for certain what something is, and 2) if it doesn't require attunement you can use it almost immediately, and 3) if it does you've knocked 1 short rest off the time required to use it.

Also, some cursed items are identifiable with the identify.  These items have that override in their item description.  

Finally, identify will also work on mundane objects and creatures that are affected by magic/spells.  No amount of short rests will do that.  If you need to know the exact spell (and any countermeasures that might be used to end/block it), then this is the only means to do so (outside of ability checks that are at the DMs discretion)

I could be wrong about this but I think Identify not being able to detect curses is to allow for the element of surprise with cursed objects. If it could detect curses, there would be no situation in which a player ever gets cursed from an item. In the same vein, Detect Magic can tell you a school of magic but not a spell - so the player can't tell if a chest has an arcane lock or a glyph of warding on it - so that there's an element of uncertainty. 

I could see something like Detect Evil and Good's ability to detect whether an item or area is 'desecrated' being used to determine if an object is cursed, but that's a bit of a stretch. You could also just homebrew a Detect Curse spell that's maybe a higher level than Identify or has a material component to it so that it costs more than a ritual casting. 

It's obviously up to you whether identify reveals curses or not, but if so, that really makes cursed items pretty lame.  

Part of the great roleplay associated with a cursed item is that the user doesn't know about it until they attune it, and then once they attune it, they often cannot get rid of it voluntarily.

I should note that only potion of poison and armor of vulnerability allow the identify to reveal their curse.  The rest of the official cursed items don't work with that spell at all.

So to everyone:
I fully agree! Allowing ID to reveal curses kinda takes the point away from surprised cursed items. The reason I bring this up is because of something that happened at the table the other day.

The party Barbarian's backstory says he was mysteriously possessed by a demon and committed horrible acts in the past. The party found a person who was CURRENTLY going through the same thing and this person attacked. He was weilding a VERY OBVIOUSLY cursed evil looking hammer.
In roleplay, he individually was talking to the party druid/cleric and she was like "This hammer look mad sketchy, lemme cast detect evil and good" and I ruled it RAW and said she detected nothing. BarBar was like "Good enough for me!" and attuned so I told him the classic "You don't want to let the hammer go" bit.

OOC, the party Wizard was like "You couldn't have waited 5 minutes for the Super smart arcane trained wizard with identify to look at it?! To which I was like "I actually just saw Identify doesn't detect curses. For future information" to which he responded: "Well that makes Identify kinda useless"


So, I'm a pretty lax DM. If something won't completely ruin encounters, outshine other players, or saves time with very little cost, I'll usually allow it. Cause at the end of the day, Yeah we're all here playing DnD, but we're really here to hang out with friends WHILE playing DnD so rule of Fun trumps all. I'm under the impression that if it makes him happy (And it REALLY won't hurt much cause its not like I'm overflowing them with Cursed stuff) Then I'll make the change. 

But I really wanna know out of curiosity. Is he right? What are some RAW useful uses of Identify? Many of my party members are of the mindset "I'll just attune to it then. If its cursed, I'll get cursed either way"

Quote from LeBattery >>

So to everyone:
I fully agree! Allowing ID to reveal curses kinda takes the point away from surprised cursed items. The reason I bring this up is because of something that happened at the table the other day.

The party Barbarian's backstory says he was mysteriously possessed by a demon and committed horrible acts in the past. The party found a person who was CURRENTLY going through the same thing and this person attacked. He was weilding a VERY OBVIOUSLY cursed evil looking hammer.
In roleplay, he individually was talking to the party druid/cleric and she was like "This hammer look mad sketchy, lemme cast detect evil and good" and I ruled it RAW and said she detected nothing. BarBar was like "Good enough for me!" and attuned so I told him the classic "You don't want to let the hammer go" bit.

OOC, the party Wizard was like "You couldn't have waited 5 minutes for the Super smart arcane trained wizard with identify to look at it?! To which I was like "I actually just saw Identify doesn't detect curses. For future information" to which he responded: "Well that makes Identify kinda useless"


So, I'm a pretty lax DM. If something won't completely ruin encounters, outshine other players, or saves time with very little cost, I'll usually allow it. Cause at the end of the day, Yeah we're all here playing DnD, but we're really here to hang out with friends WHILE playing DnD so rule of Fun trumps all. I'm under the impression that if it makes him happy (And it REALLY won't hurt much cause its not like I'm overflowing them with Cursed stuff) Then I'll make the change. 

But I really wanna know out of curiosity. Is he right? What are some RAW useful uses of Identify? Many of my party members are of the mindset "I'll just attune to it then. If its cursed, I'll get cursed either way"

Identifying runes in a dungeon that are part of a puzzle.  The spell will tell you how to use them, and what they do, giving you a hint.

Identifying a tablet that the party finds in a cult lair, and finding out that it is half of a devil contract of Asmodeus that binds the cultists to his service.

Identifying a magical trap to figure out how it is triggered and what it's effects are.

The list goes on and on.  Remember that identify works on more than just magic items that are usable by the players.  And ultimately if you personally feel that identify is underused or undervalued in your campaign, just remove the ability to determine the properties of a magic item entirely, even if attuned.  Make it so that identify *has* to be used.

Or the wizard could just use remove curse on magic items, but ultimately cursed magic items should be rare, unless it's a central campaign theme.

I don't allow players to ID items definitively or completely just by "sleeping with the item under their pillow" for an hour (i.e., hug it and love it and name it George during a short rest)... They can either use it and test it that way (swing the sword in combat, find out it has a +1, but maybe not what else it can do, depending)... or they can cast Identify. And I do not allow attunement without a full and complete identification. (This can be from someone else casting ID and telling them what it is, or knowing for some other reason what it is, such as the maker of the object telling them what he/she made.) 

This keeps Identify quite valuable in my campaign and 2 of the PCs have it in their ritual spell books.

Identify tells you how many charges an item has - none of the other methods do that.

Identify tells you the properties of an item without activating any of its curses. Finding out an item's properties by trial and error probably activates any curse, and attuning to the item certainly curses you.

You can cast identify on an item when you are already attuned to three items.

You can cast identify on an item that someone else is attu ned to without breaking their attunement.

Quote from BioWizard >>

I don't allow players to ID items definitively or completely just by "sleeping with the item under their pillow" for an hour (i.e., hug it and love it and name it George during a short rest)... They can either use it and test it that way (swing the sword in combat, find out it has a +1, but maybe not what else it can do, depending)... or they can cast Identify. And I do not allow attunement without a full and complete identification. (This can be from someone else casting ID and telling them what it is, or knowing for some other reason what it is, such as the maker of the object telling them what he/she made.) 

This keeps Identify quite valuable in my campaign and 2 of the PCs have it in their ritual spell books.

 This is the same ruleset our group works under.  We agree that simply holding the item for a bit makes no sense, so....magic away!  Makes for a pain in the butt for one group we have where nobody can cast it.  We end up getting 3-4 things ID'd every time we hit a major town, lol.

Yup, it has its down side.

On the up side, no one would ever question the usefulness of the Identify spell.

Quote from BioWizard >>

I don't allow players to ID items definitively or completely just by "sleeping with the item under their pillow" for an hour (i.e., hug it and love it and name it George during a short rest)... They can either use it and test it that way (swing the sword in combat, find out it has a +1, but maybe not what else it can do, depending)... or they can cast Identify. And I do not allow attunement without a full and complete identification. (This can be from someone else casting ID and telling them what it is, or knowing for some other reason what it is, such as the maker of the object telling them what he/she made.) 

This keeps Identify quite valuable in my campaign and 2 of the PCs have it in their ritual spell books.

 Yup I do pretty much that. You can spend time with an item and depending on the item you might figure out that it is enchanted. But if you want details, you need the spell.

Identify is really really useful, both as a player and as a DM the spell is handy, magic items you can’t attune to need to be identified in my games to have any idea what they do. Those 2 shiny stones, until a player either makes an arcana check or casts identify they have no idea what a sending stone is, those goggles it’s daytime, there just a pair of goggles identify tells you they let you see in the dark, that wand you just picked up, what is it, who can use it and how does it work. And potions, is this a potion of invulnerability or is it a potion of fire resistance and weapons that don’t need attunement, until they identify them all that the character knows is this is a really nice sword. 

In addition as with all rules of DnD the attunement identify rules are open to interpretation, some magic items the player knows all they do when they attune, others, I will have 2 magic items cards one for attunement only the other for identify. That armour, seems really light you can move easily about in it. Identify tells you it also gives you resistance to fire.