So, I DM for my wife and daughter, and our little group is finishing up HotDQ and heading into RoT. After that, we will be starting a new campaign with new characters. I originally planned on doing Waterdeep:DragoN Heist/DotMM, but I’ve got this idea for a new start in my head, and I think it might be fun.
session Zero: build characters. We use DDB for our character sheets. Develop backstories together, with the main point being that each PC should be younger (not quite adult) and they have to have a reason for being an initiate of an adventurers guild, for lack of a better turn. They could be the bastard child of a noble with no other options, an orphan, a child given to the guild as payment for services rendered, etc.
session 1: PCs start the game with a sanitized version of their character sheet, containing no class, class abilities/bonuses, equipment, etc. They are new initiates who will learn basic fighting/survival skills, meet each other, work together to solve problems/pass tests over the first 1-3 sessions (we generally play 2-3 nights a week). They develop fighting styles, learn weapons/armor proficiency, etc. at the end of “basic training” they gain 1 level of fighter. Then, 1-3 sessions of advanced training, focusing on learning the things that pertain to the class they chose. At the end, they get 1 level in their chosen class, are considered full members of the guild, and can start adventuring.
Im considering this start for a few reasons. First, I think it would be fun for them to RP training and learning each other’s characters. Second, a level of fighter would be a nice boost, especially for such a small party. Third, I’ve always loved the aspect of fantasy stories where characters train, learn, and discover their abilities. Authors like Scott Lynch, Anthony Ryan and others have explored this in some really entertaining ways, and I think it would be fun to do the same in D&D.
I wouldn’t force them to take one level of fighter. For one, I never think it’s appropriate to force a class level on someone. You are denying them their level 20 power in any class besides fighter, and moreover their concept might not involve fighting. Instead, just let them be whatever class they like. If someone has plans to be a rogue or wizard, they’ll be studying different things. It would be pretty easy to say, everyone meets in the yard to practice their simple weapons, but then the fighters go to wear armor, the rogues pick locks and the wizards study spells in the afternoon.
And not everyone likes or wants to multiclass. And not all multiclass combos actually work. In many cases, you just set back their progression in their chosen class. I guess most classes can make use of a fighting style and second wind, but personally I’d rather have the stuff from the class I want to play.
And it will be a bit weird for the entire party to have the same save proficiencies. And you are kind of giving/forcing caster classes heavy armor and martial weapons that they may not even be able to use, if they have below 15 str, for example.
If you can get buy-in from your players, do whatever makes you all happy! I've never read those guys and so I'm kind of stuck imagining "basic training" type movies on a spectrum from Stripes to Full Metal Jacket. I feel like 'fighter school' would just involve falling down in the mud and being yelled at a lot.
Are they going to get the saving throws of their fighter level or their chosen level?
I hadn’t thought about the saving throws issue. Probably chosen class. What we will do is play paper until level 2. On paper, we will add the fighter first, but on DDB, I’ll add it second.
They love multiclassing. I don’t think we will ever play to level 20, so I’m not concerned about capstone abilities. And I can’t see where 1 level of fighter could be anything but a benefit for someone.
They love multiclassing. I don’t think we will ever play to level 20, so I’m not concerned about capstone abilities. And I can’t see where 1 level of fighter could be anything but a benefit for someone.
You get saving throw proficiencies and skill proficiencies you might not want, and lose the ones from the class you do want.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
That’s why I’ll give them their main class first on DDB. That way they get the skill proficiencies and saving throws that associate with their main class.
Basically, the training time at the adventurers guild will be a prequel, and the meat of the adventure will start them off as a xxx 1/fighter 1.
You've set back their spell progression, sneak attack die, monk martial arts die (Monks, in particular, will get about nothing from a level of fighter), Druid wild shape, paladin auras, and lots of other things that depend on class level, for a fighting style they might get some benefit from, and a little self-healing that will become less and less useful over time. You're giving wizards medium armor and the defensive fighting style (at least, that's what I'd take fi I were playing a wizard in this campaign) boosting their AC for a class that really doesn't need any help.
Really, it comes down to not forcing players to take a level in a class. You get to control the entire rest of the world, the players should get to decide how their character progresses (and while you can put limits on it, there are, kind of, limits to the limits).
Though, as TimCurtain rightly pointed out, if you get buy-in from your players, that fixes any of the problems I would have had (not that my problems should matter yo to you, its your game). And if your players are into it, that's going to be much more important than anything we say here.
Yeah, I’ll definitely be getting buy in from the players. It’s my wife and daughter, so I definitely don’t want to play a game they wouldn’t want to play.
Since we really wouldn’t start any “adventuring” until they had a level in each, I don’t really think it is setting them back. If anything, they’ll have the benefit of extra HP, plus action surge and second wind, before they leave the guild. They would be the same level 1 character they would have been...but they’ll have the benefits of a 1 level fighter dip.
While I can appreciate what Xanthu is trying to get at, I believe in your particular case, it's not relevant. Your giving them Fighter1 appears to occur prior to the adventure actually starting, so they get a free level in fighter, THEN begin the adventure, as their new chosen class. In many cases, his reservations might be applicable, but here, they are a moot point, due to the setup, progression and most importantly, the dynamic.
I'd suggest go for it, or conversely, give them a freebie in any melee class that matches how they approach the first few training things. If one is looking at the doors and locks and stuff, maybe Rogue. If someone is looking for tracks or signs of passage, Ranger? If they simply charge ahead to attack wildly, Barbarian, but if the attacking approach is more tactical, Fighter. All kinds of fun options to consider for sure. In the end, for simplicity sake and for what I think can be a lot of fun, your idea sounds best, especially about assigning the classes on DDB to make sure base proficiencies and saves line up with their choice instead of all being Fighter base.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Alternately, I guess I could home brew a feat that gives them the proficiencies and features of a fighter, so they wouldn’t technically be multiclassed, but I’m not sure if that would be functionally possible on DDB.
There's multiple feats that give out all kinds of proficiencies, so I don't think that should be a problem. Fighting style is a recent addition for feats, so I don't know if that's something that's in the homebrew capabilities just yet, but officially it exists so hopefully that isn't gated. Adding something like action surge might be more tricky, but considering how feats can already add actions and things with limited uses, it should be possible to whip something together, though doing so may be clunky. Long story short, in theory it could work...
As for the original question though, if I tried having all my players start out with a level in a single class in anything other than a one-shot, I would have a riot on my hands, but if you have buy in from the rest of your table, there's no reason why it wouldn't work (assuming you don't have anyone who just said yes to get along rather than because they want to do it).
If one of the two wanted to go with a martial class, they'd have a huge benefit over someone that wanted to go caster, even if the level occurs "before adventuring". Heck, if one of your players *wants* to be a fighter, then they'll have a permanent level advantage over the other player - getting their fifth level abilities in essence a level before the other, assuming both aren't going straight fighter.
It rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not in the game so as long as your family is okay with it then it's honestly a cool idea. I just dont see why it has to be a level of fighter, instead of any other class. Even giving a list of maybe 3 classes to choose for the first level would ease my concerns.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Why fighter first? The same reason every soldier goes to basic training and learns the rudiments of infantry combat before advancing in their specialization. When the spell slots are spent, your Patron has deserted you, and the gods aren’t answering your call, you won’t have anything left to challenge the advancing enemy with but the steel (or wood) in your hands, and nothing to defend you but the armor on your back and the companion at your side.
To my mind, any adventurer’s guild, especially one that raises and trains it’s own members, would want their members to have a basic level of martial combat effectiveness. And those members, regardless of whether they were raised in the guild or joined it, would want to know that the adventurers that they set out with have that competence as well.
I think the start sounds good, but as others pointed out, I don't think it's wise to force players into a class. It will make a martial character (and especially one that is a fighter), have a huge advantage over casters. Obviously, if they are fine with it it's no biggie, but it will probably lead to some imbalances in the party. Besides, most classes so have rudimentary melee prowess, wizards can at least wield a quarterstaff, and bards and clerics already can wear armor and good weapons. I think it would be more beneficial to just have them be whatever they want, but you could throw in some proficiencies.
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D&D is a game for nerds... so I guess I'm one :p
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So, I DM for my wife and daughter, and our little group is finishing up HotDQ and heading into RoT. After that, we will be starting a new campaign with new characters. I originally planned on doing Waterdeep:DragoN Heist/DotMM, but I’ve got this idea for a new start in my head, and I think it might be fun.
session Zero: build characters. We use DDB for our character sheets. Develop backstories together, with the main point being that each PC should be younger (not quite adult) and they have to have a reason for being an initiate of an adventurers guild, for lack of a better turn. They could be the bastard child of a noble with no other options, an orphan, a child given to the guild as payment for services rendered, etc.
session 1: PCs start the game with a sanitized version of their character sheet, containing no class, class abilities/bonuses, equipment, etc. They are new initiates who will learn basic fighting/survival skills, meet each other, work together to solve problems/pass tests over the first 1-3 sessions (we generally play 2-3 nights a week). They develop fighting styles, learn weapons/armor proficiency, etc. at the end of “basic training” they gain 1 level of fighter. Then, 1-3 sessions of advanced training, focusing on learning the things that pertain to the class they chose. At the end, they get 1 level in their chosen class, are considered full members of the guild, and can start adventuring.
Im considering this start for a few reasons. First, I think it would be fun for them to RP training and learning each other’s characters. Second, a level of fighter would be a nice boost, especially for such a small party. Third, I’ve always loved the aspect of fantasy stories where characters train, learn, and discover their abilities. Authors like Scott Lynch, Anthony Ryan and others have explored this in some really entertaining ways, and I think it would be fun to do the same in D&D.
Thoughts, suggestions?
I wouldn’t force them to take one level of fighter. For one, I never think it’s appropriate to force a class level on someone. You are denying them their level 20 power in any class besides fighter, and moreover their concept might not involve fighting. Instead, just let them be whatever class they like. If someone has plans to be a rogue or wizard, they’ll be studying different things. It would be pretty easy to say, everyone meets in the yard to practice their simple weapons, but then the fighters go to wear armor, the rogues pick locks and the wizards study spells in the afternoon.
And not everyone likes or wants to multiclass. And not all multiclass combos actually work. In many cases, you just set back their progression in their chosen class. I guess most classes can make use of a fighting style and second wind, but personally I’d rather have the stuff from the class I want to play.
And it will be a bit weird for the entire party to have the same save proficiencies. And you are kind of giving/forcing caster classes heavy armor and martial weapons that they may not even be able to use, if they have below 15 str, for example.
If you can get buy-in from your players, do whatever makes you all happy! I've never read those guys and so I'm kind of stuck imagining "basic training" type movies on a spectrum from Stripes to Full Metal Jacket. I feel like 'fighter school' would just involve falling down in the mud and being yelled at a lot.
Are they going to get the saving throws of their fighter level or their chosen level?
Sounds like a great idea for a campaign start.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
I hadn’t thought about the saving throws issue. Probably chosen class. What we will do is play paper until level 2. On paper, we will add the fighter first, but on DDB, I’ll add it second.
They love multiclassing. I don’t think we will ever play to level 20, so I’m not concerned about capstone abilities. And I can’t see where 1 level of fighter could be anything but a benefit for someone.
You get saving throw proficiencies and skill proficiencies you might not want, and lose the ones from the class you do want.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
That’s why I’ll give them their main class first on DDB. That way they get the skill proficiencies and saving throws that associate with their main class.
Basically, the training time at the adventurers guild will be a prequel, and the meat of the adventure will start them off as a xxx 1/fighter 1.
You've set back their spell progression, sneak attack die, monk martial arts die (Monks, in particular, will get about nothing from a level of fighter), Druid wild shape, paladin auras, and lots of other things that depend on class level, for a fighting style they might get some benefit from, and a little self-healing that will become less and less useful over time. You're giving wizards medium armor and the defensive fighting style (at least, that's what I'd take fi I were playing a wizard in this campaign) boosting their AC for a class that really doesn't need any help.
Really, it comes down to not forcing players to take a level in a class. You get to control the entire rest of the world, the players should get to decide how their character progresses (and while you can put limits on it, there are, kind of, limits to the limits).
Though, as TimCurtain rightly pointed out, if you get buy-in from your players, that fixes any of the problems I would have had (not that my problems should matter yo to you, its your game). And if your players are into it, that's going to be much more important than anything we say here.
Yeah, I’ll definitely be getting buy in from the players. It’s my wife and daughter, so I definitely don’t want to play a game they wouldn’t want to play.
Since we really wouldn’t start any “adventuring” until they had a level in each, I don’t really think it is setting them back. If anything, they’ll have the benefit of extra HP, plus action surge and second wind, before they leave the guild. They would be the same level 1 character they would have been...but they’ll have the benefits of a 1 level fighter dip.
While I can appreciate what Xanthu is trying to get at, I believe in your particular case, it's not relevant. Your giving them Fighter1 appears to occur prior to the adventure actually starting, so they get a free level in fighter, THEN begin the adventure, as their new chosen class. In many cases, his reservations might be applicable, but here, they are a moot point, due to the setup, progression and most importantly, the dynamic.
I'd suggest go for it, or conversely, give them a freebie in any melee class that matches how they approach the first few training things. If one is looking at the doors and locks and stuff, maybe Rogue. If someone is looking for tracks or signs of passage, Ranger? If they simply charge ahead to attack wildly, Barbarian, but if the attacking approach is more tactical, Fighter. All kinds of fun options to consider for sure. In the end, for simplicity sake and for what I think can be a lot of fun, your idea sounds best, especially about assigning the classes on DDB to make sure base proficiencies and saves line up with their choice instead of all being Fighter base.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Alternately, I guess I could home brew a feat that gives them the proficiencies and features of a fighter, so they wouldn’t technically be multiclassed, but I’m not sure if that would be functionally possible on DDB.
There's multiple feats that give out all kinds of proficiencies, so I don't think that should be a problem. Fighting style is a recent addition for feats, so I don't know if that's something that's in the homebrew capabilities just yet, but officially it exists so hopefully that isn't gated. Adding something like action surge might be more tricky, but considering how feats can already add actions and things with limited uses, it should be possible to whip something together, though doing so may be clunky. Long story short, in theory it could work...
As for the original question though, if I tried having all my players start out with a level in a single class in anything other than a one-shot, I would have a riot on my hands, but if you have buy in from the rest of your table, there's no reason why it wouldn't work (assuming you don't have anyone who just said yes to get along rather than because they want to do it).
If one of the two wanted to go with a martial class, they'd have a huge benefit over someone that wanted to go caster, even if the level occurs "before adventuring". Heck, if one of your players *wants* to be a fighter, then they'll have a permanent level advantage over the other player - getting their fifth level abilities in essence a level before the other, assuming both aren't going straight fighter.
It rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not in the game so as long as your family is okay with it then it's honestly a cool idea. I just dont see why it has to be a level of fighter, instead of any other class. Even giving a list of maybe 3 classes to choose for the first level would ease my concerns.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Why fighter first? The same reason every soldier goes to basic training and learns the rudiments of infantry combat before advancing in their specialization. When the spell slots are spent, your Patron has deserted you, and the gods aren’t answering your call, you won’t have anything left to challenge the advancing enemy with but the steel (or wood) in your hands, and nothing to defend you but the armor on your back and the companion at your side.
To my mind, any adventurer’s guild, especially one that raises and trains it’s own members, would want their members to have a basic level of martial combat effectiveness. And those members, regardless of whether they were raised in the guild or joined it, would want to know that the adventurers that they set out with have that competence as well.
I think the start sounds good, but as others pointed out, I don't think it's wise to force players into a class. It will make a martial character (and especially one that is a fighter), have a huge advantage over casters. Obviously, if they are fine with it it's no biggie, but it will probably lead to some imbalances in the party. Besides, most classes so have rudimentary melee prowess, wizards can at least wield a quarterstaff, and bards and clerics already can wear armor and good weapons. I think it would be more beneficial to just have them be whatever they want, but you could throw in some proficiencies.
D&D is a game for nerds... so I guess I'm one :p