I hope to god if you're reading this you'll actually give your opinion, but here we go.
So There is a wizard in our campaign (Lv 13), who has planned his character straight to lv 20 and beyond, and he had no time to give himself a decent strength score with asi's, which for some reason, is important to him. So he has asked me if he could work out in his free time to get a higher strength score. I laughed at the idea, but I said maybe.
I just wanted to see how you guys would rule this. If you would allow it or not, how long it would take to even get a +1 bonus to strength, or if I should just give him some of those book thingies that increase his strength.
May Ao bless you if you actually answer, have a great day
I'd say no for balancing reasons - unless the other players can work on their dexterity by stretching and mental stats by doing puzzle games in their free time.
I see stats an ASIs as a realization of potential. If the wizard never puts points into his strength, then his character has never worked out and thus shouldn't gain any strength gains. Simple. ASIs represent training a certain stat.
I really think that magic items - and ones that must be attuned, notice - are the solution here. If the wizard wants to waste one of his attunement slots on a magic item of Strength that gives him zero additional effectiveness as a wizard, that's his call. Absent that, the only other reasonable solution is to burn an ASI.
Again, RPGs are about making choices. Choose to burn an ASI or an attunement slot on a stat that is just for flavor (entirely acceptable, and I have done such things many times in my history as a player), or not. But you can't just "get more strength because you want it."
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
So everyone has repeatedly said that it's a bad idea, and that I should either make him do one of the following:
Quest for an item like the gauntlets of ogre power
let him do it but at the expense of another stat
Provide everyone with the opportunity to do this.
So, I have decided to let each of the players decide on one magic item of uncommon rarity or lower, and the entire party will quest for it together. I will just create a couple mini quests and randomly generate an order for them. At the end of each of them will lie the magic item they wanted. Lastly, I will also provide all of them the chance to get an unlimited number of +1 bonuses to any score they please, but for each +1 bonus they get -2 to a score, to a minimum of 4.
Be careful with this, Gauntlets of Ogre Power plus your houserule means the wizard can further dump his STR to 4 in order to power up other stats and still have an effective 19.
Some people like to play in superpowered games where everyone has extra stats and no one has a weakness unless they want one. You may want to consider pitching that to your players if that's the game they're looking for. As long as everyone is roughly the same power level it's not too hard to ramp up difficulty to meet it.
Thanks for reminding me, I won't allow him to further trash strength.
Just because he has gauntlets of ogre power doesn't mean he will continue to have gauntlets of ogre power.
If he takes the >mickey<, take them away. he asked for more strength, you gave him more strength, and then he takes the mickey by losing his strength.
Or, make him fight some shadows. They could feasibly one-hit kill a lvl 20 character with S4 (reduce strength by 1d4, if it reaches 0; death).
He is literally just uncomfortable with the concept of a puny anorexic wizard.
Then why did he make one up? Did you force the low strength on him? If so, then maybe I can see it, although I would suggest he should have said that from day 1, not now.
Also, low STR does not mean puny and anorexic. If he's RPed his character that way, again, why? Did you force it on him? Are other players RPing that he's puny and anorexic even though he'd rather not RP that?
It sounds like some of these are HIS choices and now HE is not happy with HIS OWN choices -- the choice to put his lowest stat in STR, the choice to RP that he is a puny anorexic. If these are HIS choices, then as a player HE needs to learn to live with HIS OWN CHOICES. And maybe learn the lesson that choices matter - not just what stats you have but how you choose to RP those stats.
I'm not saying he needs to suffer. But I would have a conversation with him at this point about how as DM, yes, I am willing to work with him to help him make different/better choices going forward, and maybe help him deal with the choices he has made up to this point, but that, in the future, he needs to think carefully about the choices he is making and recognizing that part of an RPG is making choices, and then living with those choices (or dying from them, in some characters' cases). After all, when he lights up a fireball that kills innocent bystanders, THAT is a choice too. He's got to live with that as part of the RP as well.
These games are all about choices and consequences. That's what makes something an RPG. If you want to play a game without choices and consequences, there are board games like this (e.g., Candyland, where everything is literally random and there are no choices to make at all). But RPGs are not like that.
Speaking of (word) choices. Can we as a community maybe avoid anorexia as a descriptor for general weakness and maybe low body mass? Not trying to single out Biowizard as a number of posters in this thread have been throwing it around. It's a cavalier use of a descriptor/presentation indicating some sort of larger mental health phenomenon. Maybe I'm being too high horsed about it; but I find it's use as a juvenile epithet to describe someone lacking body mass and/or stature a bit troubling. It's also inaccurate, I've seen anorexia hit (men and women, boys and girls) hockey players and other athletes of the "power player" build who could probably take most of these posters down in a body check months into their history with the disorder, and I won't get into the professional gun toters who sometimes exhibit anorexia as a PTSD condition. Further inaccuracy, "high functioning" anorexics can be pretty adept at disguising any suggestive changes in bodily composition, so that even people who work with the afflicted on a daily basis actually aren't aware of what's happening until the person literally collapses in front of them.
With that I'll get off my own public service announcement high horse and let you all continue lambasting folks over whether Dungeons and Dragons is a serious game of consequences, responsibility and accountability or if its cool to let a Wizard tired of getting berated for his STR deficit get a stat boost somehow, when really the resolution is simple: sure they can get it, if they earn it.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He is literally just uncomfortable with the concept of a puny anorexic wizard.
Then why did he make one up? Did you force the low strength on him? If so, then maybe I can see it, although I would suggest he should have said that from day 1, not now.
Also, low STR does not mean puny and anorexic. If he's RPed his character that way, again, why? Did you force it on him? Are other players RPing that he's puny and anorexic even though he'd rather not RP that?
It sounds like some of these are HIS choices and now HE is not happy with HIS OWN choices -- the choice to put his lowest stat in STR, the choice to RP that he is a puny anorexic. If these are HIS choices, then as a player HE needs to learn to live with HIS OWN CHOICES. And maybe learn the lesson that choices matter - not just what stats you have but how you choose to RP those stats.
I'm not saying he needs to suffer. But I would have a conversation with him at this point about how as DM, yes, I am willing to work with him to help him make different/better choices going forward, and maybe help him deal with the choices he has made up to this point, but that, in the future, he needs to think carefully about the choices he is making and recognizing that part of an RPG is making choices, and then living with those choices (or dying from them, in some characters' cases). After all, when he lights up a fireball that kills innocent bystanders, THAT is a choice too. He's got to live with that as part of the RP as well.
These games are all about choices and consequences. That's what makes something an RPG. If you want to play a game without choices and consequences, there are board games like this (e.g., Candyland, where everything is literally random and there are no choices to make at all). But RPGs are not like that.
Speaking of (word) choices. Can we as a community maybe avoid anorexia as a descriptor for general weakness and maybe low body mass? Not trying to single out Biowizard as a number of posters in this thread have been throwing it around. It's a cavalier use of a descriptor/presentation indicating some sort of larger mental health phenomenon. Maybe I'm being too high horsed about it; but I find it's use as a juvenile epithet to describe someone lacking body mass and/or stature a bit troubling. It's also inaccurate, I've seen anorexia hit (men and women, boys and girls) hockey players and other athletes of the "power player" build who could probably take most of these posters down in a body check months into their history with the disorder, and I won't get into the professional gun toters who sometimes exhibit anorexia as a PTSD condition. Further inaccuracy, "high functioning" anorexics can be pretty adept at disguising any suggestive changes in bodily composition, so that even people who work with the afflicted on a daily basis actually aren't aware of what's happening until the person literally collapses in front of them.
With that I'll get off my own public service announcement high horse and let you all continue lambasting folks over whether Dungeons and Dragons is a serious game of consequences, responsibility and accountability or if its cool to let a Wizard tired of getting berated for his STR deficit get a stat boost somehow, when really the resolution is simple: sure they can get it, if they earn it.
There is only one way to "earn" higher strength, and that is by using an ASI. The Wizard can be "gifted" higher strength by the DM with magic item like the Gauntlets or a Tome, but I would never ever give such an item to a player after he whined about wanting said Str boost. And no, they would not be able to go to a magic item supermarket and buy it either. I have played in those kinds of games. They are ridiculous.
He is literally just uncomfortable with the concept of a puny anorexic wizard.
Then why did he make one up? Did you force the low strength on him? If so, then maybe I can see it, although I would suggest he should have said that from day 1, not now.
Also, low STR does not mean puny and anorexic. If he's RPed his character that way, again, why? Did you force it on him? Are other players RPing that he's puny and anorexic even though he'd rather not RP that?
It sounds like some of these are HIS choices and now HE is not happy with HIS OWN choices -- the choice to put his lowest stat in STR, the choice to RP that he is a puny anorexic. If these are HIS choices, then as a player HE needs to learn to live with HIS OWN CHOICES. And maybe learn the lesson that choices matter - not just what stats you have but how you choose to RP those stats.
I'm not saying he needs to suffer. But I would have a conversation with him at this point about how as DM, yes, I am willing to work with him to help him make different/better choices going forward, and maybe help him deal with the choices he has made up to this point, but that, in the future, he needs to think carefully about the choices he is making and recognizing that part of an RPG is making choices, and then living with those choices (or dying from them, in some characters' cases). After all, when he lights up a fireball that kills innocent bystanders, THAT is a choice too. He's got to live with that as part of the RP as well.
These games are all about choices and consequences. That's what makes something an RPG. If you want to play a game without choices and consequences, there are board games like this (e.g., Candyland, where everything is literally random and there are no choices to make at all). But RPGs are not like that.
Speaking of (word) choices. Can we as a community maybe avoid anorexia as a descriptor for general weakness and maybe low body mass? Not trying to single out Biowizard as a number of posters in this thread have been throwing it around. It's a cavalier use of a descriptor/presentation indicating some sort of larger mental health phenomenon. Maybe I'm being too high horsed about it; but I find it's use as a juvenile epithet to describe someone lacking body mass and/or stature a bit troubling. It's also inaccurate, I've seen anorexia hit (men and women, boys and girls) hockey players and other athletes of the "power player" build who could probably take most of these posters down in a body check months into their history with the disorder, and I won't get into the professional gun toters who sometimes exhibit anorexia as a PTSD condition. Further inaccuracy, "high functioning" anorexics can be pretty adept at disguising any suggestive changes in bodily composition, so that even people who work with the afflicted on a daily basis actually aren't aware of what's happening until the person literally collapses in front of them.
With that I'll get off my own public service announcement high horse and let you all continue lambasting folks over whether Dungeons and Dragons is a serious game of consequences, responsibility and accountability or if its cool to let a Wizard tired of getting berated for his STR deficit get a stat boost somehow, when really the resolution is simple: sure they can get it, if they earn it.
There is only one way to "earn" higher strength, and that is by using an ASI. The Wizard can be "gifted" higher strength by the DM with magic item like the Gauntlets or a Tome, but I would never ever give such an item to a player after he whined about wanting said Str boost. And no, they would not be able to go to a magic item supermarket and buy it either. I have played in those kinds of games. They are ridiculous.
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
The more I think about this the more I really would not even consider allowing it. But this is very much the issue with a player “mapping out” a characters progression to level 20 without considering the way roleplay, or the story might influence the changes.
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
At level 13, if you don't already have +4 in your primary stat, you're not trying.
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
Why would I want to reduce my strength while reducing his intelligence? The 'set stat to 19' items are really not aimed at people who specialize in that stat.
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
At level 13, if you don't already have +4 in your primary stat, you're not trying.
Or you're trying to create a build that suits your character in a roleplaying capacity instead of trying to make numbers high enough to defeat rival numbers ;)
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
At level 13, if you don't already have +4 in your primary stat, you're not trying.
Or you're trying to create a build that suits your character in a roleplaying capacity instead of trying to make numbers high enough to defeat rival numbers ;)
I was talking more about the powerful magic items that push you above 20.
The thing to note about giving the wizard a magic item for the +2 strength is that this will be an attuned item, which will probably then mean that the wizard, who has planned out his exact build, won’t be happy because he knows what 3 magic items he must have for that build.
I would be really tempted to tell him he can’t find those spells he wants anywhere in the game in order to copy them into his magic book :).
The thing to note about giving the wizard a magic item for the +2 strength is that this will be an attuned item, which will probably then mean that the wizard, who has planned out his exact build, won’t be happy because he knows what 3 magic items he must have for that build.
Well then the Wizard needs to accept his choices. Because again, deciding what to attune to is a choice.
As a player, there are 3 choices here. At build, you choose to put your dump stat into STR. Then you are unhappy with the low STR, but at each ASI, you choose NOT to increase STR, but you increase something else instead. Then when offered a magic item that increases STR, you reject it because it uses up one of those precious attunement slots. So now after making three different choices that keep the STR low, the player does not have a leg to stand on in whining that the Wizard's strength is low.
EITHER -- you actually, really care, that your wizard has low strength, in which case you use the many avenues available to players to improve that stat, at the cost of the other stats you could have improved instead, OR, you decide that as much as you dislike the wizard having low STR, that stat is not a priority and you put the resources elsewhere.
What you don't get to do is just "have more STR cuz you want it," at least not if the rest of the party can't also do that with every stat they'd like to increase. And once we go down that road, we may as well just give every PC a 20 in every stat, because that's what many people would think they wanted, if given the option.
Again, this is a roleplaying game. We make choices all the time with our characters. Those choices have consequences. They matter. This includes the choice of how to do your build.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The thing to note about giving the wizard a magic item for the +2 strength is that this will be an attuned item, which will probably then mean that the wizard, who has planned out his exact build, won’t be happy because he knows what 3 magic items he must have for that build.
Well then the Wizard needs to accept his choices. Because again, deciding what to attune to is a choice.
As a player, there are 3 choices here. At build, you choose to put your dump stat into STR. Then you are unhappy with the low STR, but at each ASI, you choose NOT to increase STR, but you increase something else instead. Then when offered a magic item that increases STR, you reject it because it uses up one of those precious attunement slots. So now after making three different choices that keep the STR low, the player does not have a leg to stand on in whining that the Wizard's strength is low.
EITHER -- you actually, really care, that your wizard has low strength, in which case you use the many avenues available to players to improve that stat, at the cost of the other stats you could have improved instead, OR, you decide that as much as you dislike the wizard having low STR, that stat is not a priority and you put the resources elsewhere.
What you don't get to do is just "have more STR cuz you want it," at least not if the rest of the party can't also do that with every stat they'd like to increase. And once we go down that road, we may as well just give every PC a 20 in every stat, because that's what many people would think they wanted, if given the option.
Again, this is a roleplaying game. We make choices all the time with our characters. Those choices have consequences. They matter. This includes the choice of how to do your build.
D&D, like many games, is a game of tradeoffs when played properly. Some people simply can't grasp that concept, or want to bypass the rules because it ruins "their fun".
The thing is, you can't escape the trade-offs. Choices have consequences. If you escape the one about where to put your stats by just upping everyone's stats, then that choice also has a consequence, by making the PCs overpowered. It is not possible to have no consequences. Deciding not to make trade-offs, is making a trade-off (it is trading off game balance and verisimilitude in exchange for being OP and unbalanced).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The thing is, you can't escape the trade-offs. Choices have consequences. If you escape the one about where to put your stats by just upping everyone's stats, then that choice also has a consequence, by making the PCs overpowered. It is not possible to have no consequences. Deciding not to make trade-offs, is making a trade-off (it is trading off game balance and verisimilitude in exchange for being OP and unbalanced).
Yeah, I was talking about actual mechanics of the char constantly needing to make decisions about their char's abilities. I think the one you are talking about is more meta where the DM and /or group decide that "our fun includes a free-for-all on abilities and toys for the chars".
But yes, you are correct. That meta is still a trade-off.
I’d also say no. There needs to be a cost. There have to be trade offs otherwise it’s like playing with a cheat key: boring.
My response to the working out would be: sure, workout and next ASI you can boost strength or you can retire and become a body builder.
Want to go questing for an item or knowledge? Want to make a pact with a higher being? Want to discover lost knowledge to create an item? That I can work with.
I'd say no for balancing reasons - unless the other players can work on their dexterity by stretching and mental stats by doing puzzle games in their free time.
I see stats an ASIs as a realization of potential. If the wizard never puts points into his strength, then his character has never worked out and thus shouldn't gain any strength gains. Simple. ASIs represent training a certain stat.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I really think that magic items - and ones that must be attuned, notice - are the solution here. If the wizard wants to waste one of his attunement slots on a magic item of Strength that gives him zero additional effectiveness as a wizard, that's his call. Absent that, the only other reasonable solution is to burn an ASI.
Again, RPGs are about making choices. Choose to burn an ASI or an attunement slot on a stat that is just for flavor (entirely acceptable, and I have done such things many times in my history as a player), or not. But you can't just "get more strength because you want it."
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Just because he has gauntlets of ogre power doesn't mean he will continue to have gauntlets of ogre power.
If he takes the >mickey<, take them away. he asked for more strength, you gave him more strength, and then he takes the mickey by losing his strength.
Or, make him fight some shadows. They could feasibly one-hit kill a lvl 20 character with S4 (reduce strength by 1d4, if it reaches 0; death).
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Speaking of (word) choices. Can we as a community maybe avoid anorexia as a descriptor for general weakness and maybe low body mass? Not trying to single out Biowizard as a number of posters in this thread have been throwing it around. It's a cavalier use of a descriptor/presentation indicating some sort of larger mental health phenomenon. Maybe I'm being too high horsed about it; but I find it's use as a juvenile epithet to describe someone lacking body mass and/or stature a bit troubling. It's also inaccurate, I've seen anorexia hit (men and women, boys and girls) hockey players and other athletes of the "power player" build who could probably take most of these posters down in a body check months into their history with the disorder, and I won't get into the professional gun toters who sometimes exhibit anorexia as a PTSD condition. Further inaccuracy, "high functioning" anorexics can be pretty adept at disguising any suggestive changes in bodily composition, so that even people who work with the afflicted on a daily basis actually aren't aware of what's happening until the person literally collapses in front of them.
With that I'll get off my own public service announcement high horse and let you all continue lambasting folks over whether Dungeons and Dragons is a serious game of consequences, responsibility and accountability or if its cool to let a Wizard tired of getting berated for his STR deficit get a stat boost somehow, when really the resolution is simple: sure they can get it, if they earn it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
There is only one way to "earn" higher strength, and that is by using an ASI. The Wizard can be "gifted" higher strength by the DM with magic item like the Gauntlets or a Tome, but I would never ever give such an item to a player after he whined about wanting said Str boost. And no, they would not be able to go to a magic item supermarket and buy it either. I have played in those kinds of games. They are ridiculous.
If I was a character that relies on strength such as the party Barbarian I would be really angry if the wizard was gifted a magic item that boosted a stat that really that player should pass over to me. Will the wizard be happy with the Barbarian getting a perm intelligence boost?
The more I think about this the more I really would not even consider allowing it. But this is very much the issue with a player “mapping out” a characters progression to level 20 without considering the way roleplay, or the story might influence the changes.
A Headband of Intellect exists and is exactly the same rarity as Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
I know they exist but, as the player who relies on strength to support the party I would be really pissed if the wizard didn’t swap his gauntlets with my headband
At level 13, if you don't already have +4 in your primary stat, you're not trying.
Why would I want to reduce my strength while reducing his intelligence? The 'set stat to 19' items are really not aimed at people who specialize in that stat.
Or you're trying to create a build that suits your character in a roleplaying capacity instead of trying to make numbers high enough to defeat rival numbers ;)
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I was talking more about the powerful magic items that push you above 20.
The thing to note about giving the wizard a magic item for the +2 strength is that this will be an attuned item, which will probably then mean that the wizard, who has planned out his exact build, won’t be happy because he knows what 3 magic items he must have for that build.
I would be really tempted to tell him he can’t find those spells he wants anywhere in the game in order to copy them into his magic book :).
Well then the Wizard needs to accept his choices. Because again, deciding what to attune to is a choice.
As a player, there are 3 choices here. At build, you choose to put your dump stat into STR. Then you are unhappy with the low STR, but at each ASI, you choose NOT to increase STR, but you increase something else instead. Then when offered a magic item that increases STR, you reject it because it uses up one of those precious attunement slots. So now after making three different choices that keep the STR low, the player does not have a leg to stand on in whining that the Wizard's strength is low.
EITHER -- you actually, really care, that your wizard has low strength, in which case you use the many avenues available to players to improve that stat, at the cost of the other stats you could have improved instead, OR, you decide that as much as you dislike the wizard having low STR, that stat is not a priority and you put the resources elsewhere.
What you don't get to do is just "have more STR cuz you want it," at least not if the rest of the party can't also do that with every stat they'd like to increase. And once we go down that road, we may as well just give every PC a 20 in every stat, because that's what many people would think they wanted, if given the option.
Again, this is a roleplaying game. We make choices all the time with our characters. Those choices have consequences. They matter. This includes the choice of how to do your build.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
D&D, like many games, is a game of tradeoffs when played properly. Some people simply can't grasp that concept, or want to bypass the rules because it ruins "their fun".
The thing is, you can't escape the trade-offs. Choices have consequences. If you escape the one about where to put your stats by just upping everyone's stats, then that choice also has a consequence, by making the PCs overpowered. It is not possible to have no consequences. Deciding not to make trade-offs, is making a trade-off (it is trading off game balance and verisimilitude in exchange for being OP and unbalanced).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yeah, I was talking about actual mechanics of the char constantly needing to make decisions about their char's abilities. I think the one you are talking about is more meta where the DM and /or group decide that "our fun includes a free-for-all on abilities and toys for the chars".
But yes, you are correct. That meta is still a trade-off.
I’d also say no. There needs to be a cost. There have to be trade offs otherwise it’s like playing with a cheat key: boring.
My response to the working out would be: sure, workout and next ASI you can boost strength or you can retire and become a body builder.
Want to go questing for an item or knowledge? Want to make a pact with a higher being? Want to discover lost knowledge to create an item? That I can work with.
^^^ This.
Because all of those things (pacts, questing, working out and then using the ASI) are based on RP.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.