I have just gone through this with my players, a shipping expedition in town to find those need to pay for components.
But I also allow some flexibility. Especially in those magic classes that have full access to all the spells day to day.
So the way I rule this is as follows, ideally players will buy those items in town at the same time the fighter is buying a new sword, or the archer there arrows.
But if a player decides out in the wilderness that actually, they want to try using this other spell today, and it needs a 100gold component, then I will usually allow them to simply mark off the 100gold and assume they bought it in the last town, this means that said bard or Artificer or Cleric doesn’t not need to buy every component for every spell they could ever possibly use. I do this for components that will be consumed as well.
Now this is on a case by case basis and there are some spells I insist the players think about ahead of time, if the component is consumed I might let them get away with this one or 2 times but then I will remind them next time in town, remember from now on you need to buy those complimented ahead of time.
But if a player decides out in the wilderness that actually, they want to try using this other spell today, and it needs a 100gold component, then I will usually allow them to simply mark off the 100gold and assume they bought it in the last town, this means that said bard or Artificer or Cleric doesn’t not need to buy every component for every spell they could ever possibly use. I do this for components that will be consumed as well.
I have allowed this once or twice as well, if it is something that would generally be available. Depends on where they have been spending time "in town." In small towns, a 100 gp pearl may not be available at all (but then neither would a suit of full plate be), so then I wouldn't allow it. But if they are based in a large port city where such things could easily be purchased, then I might allow it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
... but are you guys literally forcing players to *find* a pearl, diamonds, and other things? I let my players buy them in stores when they hit the markets, and pretty much every component they would ever need. The only limitation being that they can’t pick up extra components on the road.
Unless you want to play a SUPER low magic campaign, or course.
but are you guys literally forcing players to *find* a pearl, diamonds, and other things?
Forcing? No.
Placing them in treasure hordes at around the level where they need them? Yes.
My players can buy stuff, IF they are in an appropriate location. The first 5 levels they spent in a small border town that did not have a mega-economy. They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either. So no, there were no 100 gp pearls for sale there. But in the larger cities, yes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
but are you guys literally forcing players to *find* a pearl, diamonds, and other things?
Forcing? No.
Placing them in treasure hordes at around the level where they need them? Yes.
My players can buy stuff, IF they are in an appropriate location. The first 5 levels they spent in a small border town that did not have a mega-economy. They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either. So no, there were no 100 gp pearls for sale there. But in the larger cities, yes.
I haven’t done that to my players yet - usually they start off in places with an economy, but I can see the allure of smaller towns with limited stuff. Do you also limit martial weapons and armor as a result too, to go along with that scarcity?
That would make for a fair trade off I’d think, at least at low levels.
From the post you quoted: They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either.
I did not limit the weapons because they didn't have anything beyond the gladius (short sword) which was common enough in Roman times.
Spathas (longswords) would have been hard to find (only the Roman cavalry used them, and no cavalry were posted in the small town where they started out), but nobody asked for or went looking for one.
BTW, they CHOSE the town where they started from a series of options I gave them in Session 0. So it was their decision to start in the small border town near where all the trouble had been brewing. They could have started farther back in the Empire but decided not to. They were warned that the border towns have less supply than the interior towns. But they also knew that starting too far in meant going a long distance to get to adventures, since the heart of the Empire is fairly safe.
I haven’t done that to my players yet - usually they start off in places with an economy, but I can see the allure of smaller towns with limited stuff. Do you also limit martial weapons and armor as a result too, to go along with that scarcity?
That would make for a fair trade off I’d think, at least at low levels.
Yep. Also smaller towns don't usually have "thieves guilds" or any guilds for that matter, pending town size. [That is, in so far as martial weapons. In this thread I'm pretty agnostic about spell components once the spells been used for a bit, stemming from the general fragility vulnerability (to damage, theft, loss) of components as compared to weapons and armor.]
So the attraction to cities are the commercial nexus to get all sorts of supplies, knowledge resources (sages and maybe libraries), etc. The trade off being that cities are more complicated environments than smaller settlements, there's a higher threat potential, but we usually call those threats plot development in my games.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Even the lowest healing potion tends to be available in small towns as herbalists can make them. Same here for fancier armor and weapons, but starting equip I’d allow some flexibility if they have a reason for it. Having a component pouch or focus eliminated the need for simple things. I’d allow spending coin at time of casting to account for the gem value and increase the frequency of those occurring in treasure if it’s affecting the balance. Even in modules you can adjust - say 120 gold turns into a 50 g diamond, and a jeweled something worth 70 g. Or just add to it. Bottom line, if it’s taking away from the game, adjust. If it’s annoying your players, lighten your rules
but are you guys literally forcing players to *find* a pearl, diamonds, and other things?
Forcing? No.
Placing them in treasure hordes at around the level where they need them? Yes.
My players can buy stuff, IF they are in an appropriate location. The first 5 levels they spent in a small border town that did not have a mega-economy. They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either. So no, there were no 100 gp pearls for sale there. But in the larger cities, yes.
To my mind any spell components up to level 2 spells are pretty common. These are the spells almost every magic user can wield in the world be it a wizard, cleric, arcane trickster, elderitch knight, it’s the spells that feats let you have, or characters that multi class get. So to my mind it is the spells that normal everyday people who learn magic can do. So a 100gp pearl is totally something that can be found somewhere in any major town if the spell is available.
But I do expect my players to go out and get the spell components for the higher level spells they can cast, so a level 15 wizard who suddenly learns identify by finding a spell scroll, I will still expect him to tell me he wants to find a 100gp pearl, I will still have him make an investigation roll if he is in a new town and doesn’t know where the right shops would be.
Some of the other free components I expect my players to look for as well, a silver bell, a mirror, things like that I don’t always allow a complement pouch or focus to replicate. Yes strictly speaking they are not consumed, but, it is part of the magic, now that level 16 wizard, I am mainly tracking the components he needs for his highest level spells but I do still make sure things are looking realistic, because ultimately my fighter, ranger etc are busy buying armour, weapons, worrying about encumbrance and generally trying to keep things under control. Magic users also need to learn to manage inventories.
But I made this clear in session 0, I also periodically remind my players of this fact and they enjoy it, especially my warlock he will often tell me he is heading into market to buy some ribbon, a few odds and ends and a sandwich (he is a halfling) to fill his pockets with.
Something else I also provide, as an aside, is a pouch of holding, this is a wizard component pouch which is a mini bag of holding and allows the material components to be stored in it. As one player also once realised it also works as a plane bomb because it is small enough it can be thrown into an open bag of holding from a distance.
I will add that if for your game you don’t want to bother with spell components then just have the player pay the gold for every spell only, but your missing out on great RP moments.
Old thread, I know, but related question: could a PC be aware of material components of spells that are of a level that surpasses their current spellcasting level? In other words, if they came across (or actively looks for) something that the player knows is a material component for a higher-level spell, is it fair to allow the PC to nab it, or would this be considered metagaming?
Reason I ask is that for classes that don't get to easily swap out spells (playing a warlock right now), if we want to take a spell when it becomes available, but haven't been able to prep for its material component(s) (those with a gp cost or that are consumed, that is), then we risk nerfing ourselves by taking said spell until such time as we can get the material component.
For example, a warlock attaining 7th level could grab Shadow of Moil, but if the PC only becomes aware of the material component requirement at that point in time, they're nerfed until they can acquire it (relative to taking a spell w/o a material component, in which case you could start using it right away.) As a player, I'd like to be able to keep my eye out for said component in earlier levels and at least have the pieces together so I'm ready to go when I take the spell, or shortly thereafter. Otherwise, if I take an alternate spell, I have to wait until I level again to swap it out for the spell I actually want (or take it in addition).
At the worst, I'd at least expect that once a spell level was available to a PC, they would know the material components of all spells of that level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have just gone through this with my players, a shipping expedition in town to find those need to pay for components.
But I also allow some flexibility. Especially in those magic classes that have full access to all the spells day to day.
So the way I rule this is as follows, ideally players will buy those items in town at the same time the fighter is buying a new sword, or the archer there arrows.
But if a player decides out in the wilderness that actually, they want to try using this other spell today, and it needs a 100gold component, then I will usually allow them to simply mark off the 100gold and assume they bought it in the last town, this means that said bard or Artificer or Cleric doesn’t not need to buy every component for every spell they could ever possibly use. I do this for components that will be consumed as well.
Now this is on a case by case basis and there are some spells I insist the players think about ahead of time, if the component is consumed I might let them get away with this one or 2 times but then I will remind them next time in town, remember from now on you need to buy those complimented ahead of time.
I have allowed this once or twice as well, if it is something that would generally be available. Depends on where they have been spending time "in town." In small towns, a 100 gp pearl may not be available at all (but then neither would a suit of full plate be), so then I wouldn't allow it. But if they are based in a large port city where such things could easily be purchased, then I might allow it.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Wait... I play RaW and require components...
... but are you guys literally forcing players to *find* a pearl, diamonds, and other things? I let my players buy them in stores when they hit the markets, and pretty much every component they would ever need. The only limitation being that they can’t pick up extra components on the road.
Unless you want to play a SUPER low magic campaign, or course.
Forcing? No.
Placing them in treasure hordes at around the level where they need them? Yes.
My players can buy stuff, IF they are in an appropriate location. The first 5 levels they spent in a small border town that did not have a mega-economy. They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either. So no, there were no 100 gp pearls for sale there. But in the larger cities, yes.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I haven’t done that to my players yet - usually they start off in places with an economy, but I can see the allure of smaller towns with limited stuff. Do you also limit martial weapons and armor as a result too, to go along with that scarcity?
That would make for a fair trade off I’d think, at least at low levels.
From the post you quoted: They couldn't buy healing potions or any armor above chain either.
I did not limit the weapons because they didn't have anything beyond the gladius (short sword) which was common enough in Roman times.
Spathas (longswords) would have been hard to find (only the Roman cavalry used them, and no cavalry were posted in the small town where they started out), but nobody asked for or went looking for one.
BTW, they CHOSE the town where they started from a series of options I gave them in Session 0. So it was their decision to start in the small border town near where all the trouble had been brewing. They could have started farther back in the Empire but decided not to. They were warned that the border towns have less supply than the interior towns. But they also knew that starting too far in meant going a long distance to get to adventures, since the heart of the Empire is fairly safe.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yep. Also smaller towns don't usually have "thieves guilds" or any guilds for that matter, pending town size. [That is, in so far as martial weapons. In this thread I'm pretty agnostic about spell components once the spells been used for a bit, stemming from the general fragility vulnerability (to damage, theft, loss) of components as compared to weapons and armor.]
So the attraction to cities are the commercial nexus to get all sorts of supplies, knowledge resources (sages and maybe libraries), etc. The trade off being that cities are more complicated environments than smaller settlements, there's a higher threat potential, but we usually call those threats plot development in my games.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Even the lowest healing potion tends to be available in small towns as herbalists can make them. Same here for fancier armor and weapons, but starting equip I’d allow some flexibility if they have a reason for it. Having a component pouch or focus eliminated the need for simple things. I’d allow spending coin at time of casting to account for the gem value and increase the frequency of those occurring in treasure if it’s affecting the balance. Even in modules you can adjust - say 120 gold turns into a 50 g diamond, and a jeweled something worth 70 g. Or just add to it. Bottom line, if it’s taking away from the game, adjust. If it’s annoying your players, lighten your rules
To my mind any spell components up to level 2 spells are pretty common. These are the spells almost every magic user can wield in the world be it a wizard, cleric, arcane trickster, elderitch knight, it’s the spells that feats let you have, or characters that multi class get. So to my mind it is the spells that normal everyday people who learn magic can do. So a 100gp pearl is totally something that can be found somewhere in any major town if the spell is available.
But I do expect my players to go out and get the spell components for the higher level spells they can cast, so a level 15 wizard who suddenly learns identify by finding a spell scroll, I will still expect him to tell me he wants to find a 100gp pearl, I will still have him make an investigation roll if he is in a new town and doesn’t know where the right shops would be.
Some of the other free components I expect my players to look for as well, a silver bell, a mirror, things like that I don’t always allow a complement pouch or focus to replicate. Yes strictly speaking they are not consumed, but, it is part of the magic, now that level 16 wizard, I am mainly tracking the components he needs for his highest level spells but I do still make sure things are looking realistic, because ultimately my fighter, ranger etc are busy buying armour, weapons, worrying about encumbrance and generally trying to keep things under control. Magic users also need to learn to manage inventories.
But I made this clear in session 0, I also periodically remind my players of this fact and they enjoy it, especially my warlock he will often tell me he is heading into market to buy some ribbon, a few odds and ends and a sandwich (he is a halfling) to fill his pockets with.
Something else I also provide, as an aside, is a pouch of holding, this is a wizard component pouch which is a mini bag of holding and allows the material components to be stored in it. As one player also once realised it also works as a plane bomb because it is small enough it can be thrown into an open bag of holding from a distance.
I will add that if for your game you don’t want to bother with spell components then just have the player pay the gold for every spell only, but your missing out on great RP moments.
Old thread, I know, but related question: could a PC be aware of material components of spells that are of a level that surpasses their current spellcasting level? In other words, if they came across (or actively looks for) something that the player knows is a material component for a higher-level spell, is it fair to allow the PC to nab it, or would this be considered metagaming?
Reason I ask is that for classes that don't get to easily swap out spells (playing a warlock right now), if we want to take a spell when it becomes available, but haven't been able to prep for its material component(s) (those with a gp cost or that are consumed, that is), then we risk nerfing ourselves by taking said spell until such time as we can get the material component.
For example, a warlock attaining 7th level could grab Shadow of Moil, but if the PC only becomes aware of the material component requirement at that point in time, they're nerfed until they can acquire it (relative to taking a spell w/o a material component, in which case you could start using it right away.) As a player, I'd like to be able to keep my eye out for said component in earlier levels and at least have the pieces together so I'm ready to go when I take the spell, or shortly thereafter. Otherwise, if I take an alternate spell, I have to wait until I level again to swap it out for the spell I actually want (or take it in addition).
At the worst, I'd at least expect that once a spell level was available to a PC, they would know the material components of all spells of that level.