l have a few ideas on how to the party together, and a few of them involve a troll in some way but l want (Like one PC's home was attacked by a troll, and they went to town to ask for help, thus meeting the party and haveing troll slaying be their first quest, or the group are walking outside of town when one final PC comes out of the woods, being chased by a troll)
(That said, with those two examples, they don't HAVE to fight the troll. The home wreaker could be tackled after some adventuring (LV 2-4) (or those levels could be gained on the way to the troll), and the second example could be ran from by most PC's)
I know it'll be one heck of a fight, but would it be manageable for a 1st level party? (l just took a look at it's stat sheet, and I think that as long as one pc has a something like firebolt or chill touch, and no one gets into melee, it'll be fine, but this is why i'm asking you)
In short, could a group of level ones (don't know the exact party size or class' yet) Take on a troll RAW, or would the DM have to homebrew/weaken it first?
So, the feed back so far leads to: Maybe, depends on the party. If they can cheese it by keeping out of melee and stopping its regen (Maybe a combo of entangle and chill touch? Would require a druid though.), then it's do-able, but if it's a all melee party, or they decide not to run, they're Ducked.
Thanks for the advice (Especially about the ogre, though if l do use one, it'll be a zombie (slower, and less AC, though more HP and undead fortitude make it more "spongey") TBH, l asked the question before actually reading the stat block, but even still, I wanted to have advice from those with more experience building encounters. So thanks. If l use a troll, it'll be nerfed heavily. (like how Rob76 advised: Use a "juvenile" troll, use the standard troll stat block but half the HP, it only regenerates 1d6hp per round, give it a CR of 1 or 2 and the damage it deals is 1d6+2 for a bite and 2d6+2 for a claw and it only gets one attack per round. )
no not even remotely they will get pounded.They have very little fire damage and the monster is way above their pay grade in general (a cr 10 at 1st level?).
A normal troll (CR5) would definitely be a deadly encounter for a 1st-level party (even with 5+ characters). However, the biggest threats of the troll would be its three melee attacks and the ability to regenerate damage. The three attacks, which are fairly likely to hit, would drop most 1st level characters in 1-2 strikes. Regenerating 10 hit points per round is likely to heal most damage that 1st level characters are able to deal.
However, if the party can mostly negate these two aspects, then it's not nearly as difficult or deadly of an encounter. If the troll can never engage them in melee, then the characters have little to nothing to fear about being harmed and killed. If the party can lob acid and fire attacks at the troll from a distance, then they can ultimately prevent it from regenerating and eventually kill it. Probably going to take several rounds to add up enough damage even if it cannot regenerate, but not much of an issue if troll cannot reach them.
Would question having such an encounter at this level if it's practically a guaranteed win for the troll if it can reach the characters (or for the characters if they cannot be reached).
The problem with trying to stay out of range is that the troll can just duck behind full cover and regenerate to full; it doesn't have to keep chasing and let the PCs kite it. If they have a way of pinning it down so they can keep hitting it with missiles and it can't attack them, sure, they can win, but that's a hard situation to achieve.
If the PCs try to kite it, they'll die. The PCs will be limited to 30 ft per round (barring races that are faster) while the troll can dash 60 feet. With a 15 AC, enough attacks will miss it that it will be able to close the gap without suffering more damage than its regeneration can handle. Once it gets into melee, the party is toast.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But seriously, as others have said, it would be an especially deadly encounter. Let's just do the math.
Trolls are 1,800 XP, a deadly encounter for a group of 4 1st level PCs would be 400 experience, so the odds of them taking down a troll would be astronomical.
Now, there are ways to do it. I did have a party of 1st level PCs have an "encounter" with a troll. They were hired guards for a caravan that just happened to be going through an area called the Trollclaws. I had a higher-level NPC tell them that the caravan's strategy was to keep the team rested and have the horses gallop and outrun any troll attacks, he also gave them three alchemist's fire. A Troll did attack the caravan and started gaining on them until the bard cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on it while the caravan sped away. Now one PC did jump off the caravan and try to attack it and he should have died, but I had mercy on him since it was the first session.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has an encounter where a very high level NPC takes on a troll in the middle of a bar with stirges attached to it. The PCs fight the stirges while the NPC handles the troll.
You would have to get creative to make it work. An all out fight with a troll at first level would be a bloodbath.
No: go for an ogre instead! They’re big, hulking brutes like trolls but way less powerful. Include some innocent villagers it’s going after so they can’t just shoot it, at least someone has to go into melee. And one should match up perfectly against a party of around 4 first level characters, at least as long as you include a couple other fights of comparable difficulty before a long rest. (At least 3 encounters a day keeps imbalance away.) :)
If the PCs try to kite it, they'll die. The PCs will be limited to 30 ft per round (barring races that are faster) while the troll can dash 60 feet. With a 15 AC, enough attacks will miss it that it will be able to close the gap without suffering more damage than its regeneration can handle. Once it gets into melee, the party is toast.
If it uses the dash action, then it wouldn't be able to attack. Sure it could close the gap, but it wouldn't be able to attack untill its next turn (well, except if some poor smuck got into melee, then their done for when it uses it's reaction to attack if they try to get out of melee.
But seriously, as others have said, it would be an especially deadly encounter. Let's just do the math.
Trolls are 1,800 XP, a deadly encounter for a group of 4 1st level PCs would be 400 experience, so the odds of them taking down a troll would be astronomical.
Now, there are ways to do it. I did have a party of 1st level PCs have an "encounter" with a troll. They were hired guards for a caravan that just happened to be going through an area called the Trollclaws. I had a higher-level NPC tell them that the caravan's strategy was to keep the team rested and have the horses gallop and outrun any troll attacks, he also gave them three alchemist's fire. A Troll did attack the caravan and started gaining on them until the bard cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on it while the caravan sped away. Now one PC did jump off the caravan and try to attack it and he should have died, but I had mercy on him since it was the first session.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has an encounter where a very high level NPC takes on a troll in the middle of a bar with stirges attached to it. The PCs fight the stirges while the NPC handles the troll.
You would have to get creative to make it work. An all out fight with a troll at first level would be a bloodbath.
No, and no apology needed, it was funny. TBH, l asked the question before actually reading the stat block, but even still, wanted to have advice from those with more experience building encounters.
If the PCs try to kite it, they'll die. The PCs will be limited to 30 ft per round (barring races that are faster) while the troll can dash 60 feet. With a 15 AC, enough attacks will miss it that it will be able to close the gap without suffering more damage than its regeneration can handle. Once it gets into melee, the party is toast.
If it uses the dash action, then it wouldn't be able to attack. Sure it could close the gap, but it wouldn't be able to attack untill its next turn (well, except if some poor smuck got into melee, then their done for when it uses it's reaction to attack if they try to get out of melee.
That's the thing. All the troll needs to do is get into melee range. At that point, party members are stuck with the dilemma: Disengage and be unable to move fast enough to avoid being attacked on the troll's next turn, or Dash and eat an Opportunity Attack that's extremely likely to be fatal? Either way they're fairly screwed at that point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So, there is an official module that start out with a troll vs a level 1 group in a tavern. The troll starts at 44 hp, but also comes with 3 stirges that will attack players.
If you'd like to use a Troll then do it. Just change the battle from a kill or be killed to kill or be robbed. Trolls sometimes just go into farms and homes to steal livestock, etc. You can make it into a battle/puzzle for new players, to see if they can figure out the troll is healing, and they need to use torches or flasks of lamp oil to keep it from regenerating. If they lose the troll just knocks them out and makes off with a bunch of goats or something. You can turn it into kind of a monster hunter thing if they lose, where they need to find info on how to beat it. This would be a great way to get new players to think of the game as more than just "I hit it with my sword until it dies". Maybe if they hit with slashing, chop off a finger or limb so they can try out different things on it. Maybe have the troll run off early if it takes too much damage.
1) to expand a litle on a idea above: A CR5 troll attacks a village where the party are currently resting for the night, the village elder asks them to lure it away, the villagers are armed with torches and pitch forks which is enough to disuade the troll form attacking them (because its a big mob of fire and sharp pointy things) but the villagers are not strong enough to stop it rampaging through the village. The party have to use hit anf run tactics to pull the troll out of the village, give the troll a Wisdom save to do anything other than persue a member of the party. You can still flavour it as it mindlessly smashes doors and walls, or grabs a poor animal form a livestock pen and devours it but it just makes the party think tactically. You can even have the village elder specifically tell the party not to kill it just lure it away as there is a family of trolls that live in the mountains/caves/river nearby and if one dies the others will come looking form the missing one.
2) Have them fight to the death but have the troll affected by a Confusion spell so it's actions are mostly randomised.
3) Use a "juvenile" troll, use the standard troll stat block but half the HP, it only regenerates 1d6hp per round, give it a CR of 1 or 2 and the damage it deals is 1d6+2 for a bite and 2d6+2 for a claw and it only gets one attack per round.
A troll could be a serious threat to a 1st level party, but not an impossible match. It would take a few things to go the party's way for them to have a chance of defeating it. If encounter distance lets the party attack freely once or twice before entering melee. If they win initiative, and all hit with their attacks, even a 1st level party can deal considerable damage with good rolls, specially if they're 5-6 PC ganging up on it. The encounter doesn't have to last until the troll is dead, but when it's injured enought to flee. The use of magic could influence the encounter and the troll's reactionsas well.
Also, if the troll spreads its multiattack over sevral PCs rather than focus fire on a single one, he would not drop party member as fast, giving them a greater chance to succeed.
Finally, once the troll is sufficiently injured below half or quarter hit points, it could try to flee despite being surrounded and threatened, provoking a bunch of opportunity attacks.
There's ways to weaken it as well, reducing the troll hit points from previous injury he just received, even better from fire or acid so that it doesn't regenerate immediatly.... Of course if the troll is played well instead, it will be brutal and kill the party in a few rounds so it all depends of the DM also.
I think if it's made very clear to the players that the troll is not a threat to be faced directly, but something that needs to be outsmarted in some way they'll be able to handle it. If you send 5 level 1 characters into a 30x30 cave with a troll in it, they're going to get stomped. But let the players choose the battleground, let them set up some traps or bait to lure the troll. Maybe they'll catch it in a hunting trap, maybe they'll trap it under some boulders. Just help guide the players to not focus just on combat, but on making smart use of all the other options the game presents them. This would actually set a pretty solid precedent for the game going forward... establish early on that they're not limited just to combat. Going forward they'll start to look at problems laterally. It could lead to some fun "Witcher" or "Monster Hunter" style gameplay, where they find themselves focusing on researching the creatures they're going to fight so they can plan ahead and prepare to specifically be ready for those creatures.
l have a few ideas on how to the party together, and a few of them involve a troll in some way but l want (Like one PC's home was attacked by a troll, and they went to town to ask for help, thus meeting the party and haveing troll slaying be their first quest, or the group are walking outside of town when one final PC comes out of the woods, being chased by a troll)
(That said, with those two examples, they don't HAVE to fight the troll. The home wreaker could be tackled after some adventuring (LV 2-4) (or those levels could be gained on the way to the troll), and the second example could be ran from by most PC's)
I know it'll be one heck of a fight, but would it be manageable for a 1st level party? (l just took a look at it's stat sheet, and I think that as long as one pc has a something like firebolt or chill touch, and no one gets into melee, it'll be fine, but this is why i'm asking you)
In short, could a group of level ones (don't know the exact party size or class' yet) Take on a troll RAW, or would the DM have to homebrew/weaken it first?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/troll
So, the feed back so far leads to: Maybe, depends on the party. If they can cheese it by keeping out of melee and stopping its regen (Maybe a combo of entangle and chill touch? Would require a druid though.), then it's do-able, but if it's a all melee party, or they decide not to run, they're Ducked.
Thanks for the advice (Especially about the ogre, though if l do use one, it'll be a zombie (slower, and less AC, though more HP and undead fortitude make it more "spongey") TBH, l asked the question before actually reading the stat block, but even still, I wanted to have advice from those with more experience building encounters. So thanks. If l use a troll, it'll be nerfed heavily. (like how Rob76 advised: Use a "juvenile" troll, use the standard troll stat block but half the HP, it only regenerates 1d6hp per round, give it a CR of 1 or 2 and the damage it deals is 1d6+2 for a bite and 2d6+2 for a claw and it only gets one attack per round. )
no not even remotely they will get pounded.They have very little fire damage and the monster is way above their pay grade in general (a cr 10 at 1st level?).
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
Cr 5 actually, but l get the point.
A normal troll (CR5) would definitely be a deadly encounter for a 1st-level party (even with 5+ characters). However, the biggest threats of the troll would be its three melee attacks and the ability to regenerate damage. The three attacks, which are fairly likely to hit, would drop most 1st level characters in 1-2 strikes. Regenerating 10 hit points per round is likely to heal most damage that 1st level characters are able to deal.
However, if the party can mostly negate these two aspects, then it's not nearly as difficult or deadly of an encounter. If the troll can never engage them in melee, then the characters have little to nothing to fear about being harmed and killed. If the party can lob acid and fire attacks at the troll from a distance, then they can ultimately prevent it from regenerating and eventually kill it. Probably going to take several rounds to add up enough damage even if it cannot regenerate, but not much of an issue if troll cannot reach them.
Would question having such an encounter at this level if it's practically a guaranteed win for the troll if it can reach the characters (or for the characters if they cannot be reached).
The problem with trying to stay out of range is that the troll can just duck behind full cover and regenerate to full; it doesn't have to keep chasing and let the PCs kite it. If they have a way of pinning it down so they can keep hitting it with missiles and it can't attack them, sure, they can win, but that's a hard situation to achieve.
If the PCs try to kite it, they'll die. The PCs will be limited to 30 ft per round (barring races that are faster) while the troll can dash 60 feet. With a 15 AC, enough attacks will miss it that it will be able to close the gap without suffering more damage than its regeneration can handle. Once it gets into melee, the party is toast.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Is this "troll"ing? *sorry, it was right there*
But seriously, as others have said, it would be an especially deadly encounter. Let's just do the math.
Trolls are 1,800 XP, a deadly encounter for a group of 4 1st level PCs would be 400 experience, so the odds of them taking down a troll would be astronomical.
Now, there are ways to do it. I did have a party of 1st level PCs have an "encounter" with a troll. They were hired guards for a caravan that just happened to be going through an area called the Trollclaws. I had a higher-level NPC tell them that the caravan's strategy was to keep the team rested and have the horses gallop and outrun any troll attacks, he also gave them three alchemist's fire. A Troll did attack the caravan and started gaining on them until the bard cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on it while the caravan sped away. Now one PC did jump off the caravan and try to attack it and he should have died, but I had mercy on him since it was the first session.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage has an encounter where a very high level NPC takes on a troll in the middle of a bar with stirges attached to it. The PCs fight the stirges while the NPC handles the troll.
You would have to get creative to make it work. An all out fight with a troll at first level would be a bloodbath.
No: go for an ogre instead! They’re big, hulking brutes like trolls but way less powerful. Include some innocent villagers it’s going after so they can’t just shoot it, at least someone has to go into melee. And one should match up perfectly against a party of around 4 first level characters, at least as long as you include a couple other fights of comparable difficulty before a long rest. (At least 3 encounters a day keeps imbalance away.) :)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
If it uses the dash action, then it wouldn't be able to attack. Sure it could close the gap, but it wouldn't be able to attack untill its next turn (well, except if some poor smuck got into melee, then their done for when it uses it's reaction to attack if they try to get out of melee.
No, and no apology needed, it was funny. TBH, l asked the question before actually reading the stat block, but even still, wanted to have advice from those with more experience building encounters.
That's the thing. All the troll needs to do is get into melee range. At that point, party members are stuck with the dilemma: Disengage and be unable to move fast enough to avoid being attacked on the troll's next turn, or Dash and eat an Opportunity Attack that's extremely likely to be fatal? Either way they're fairly screwed at that point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So, there is an official module that start out with a troll vs a level 1 group in a tavern. The troll starts at 44 hp, but also comes with 3 stirges that will attack players.
If you'd like to use a Troll then do it. Just change the battle from a kill or be killed to kill or be robbed. Trolls sometimes just go into farms and homes to steal livestock, etc. You can make it into a battle/puzzle for new players, to see if they can figure out the troll is healing, and they need to use torches or flasks of lamp oil to keep it from regenerating. If they lose the troll just knocks them out and makes off with a bunch of goats or something. You can turn it into kind of a monster hunter thing if they lose, where they need to find info on how to beat it. This would be a great way to get new players to think of the game as more than just "I hit it with my sword until it dies". Maybe if they hit with slashing, chop off a finger or limb so they can try out different things on it. Maybe have the troll run off early if it takes too much damage.
Here's a few options:
1) to expand a litle on a idea above: A CR5 troll attacks a village where the party are currently resting for the night, the village elder asks them to lure it away, the villagers are armed with torches and pitch forks which is enough to disuade the troll form attacking them (because its a big mob of fire and sharp pointy things) but the villagers are not strong enough to stop it rampaging through the village. The party have to use hit anf run tactics to pull the troll out of the village, give the troll a Wisdom save to do anything other than persue a member of the party. You can still flavour it as it mindlessly smashes doors and walls, or grabs a poor animal form a livestock pen and devours it but it just makes the party think tactically. You can even have the village elder specifically tell the party not to kill it just lure it away as there is a family of trolls that live in the mountains/caves/river nearby and if one dies the others will come looking form the missing one.
2) Have them fight to the death but have the troll affected by a Confusion spell so it's actions are mostly randomised.
3) Use a "juvenile" troll, use the standard troll stat block but half the HP, it only regenerates 1d6hp per round, give it a CR of 1 or 2 and the damage it deals is 1d6+2 for a bite and 2d6+2 for a claw and it only gets one attack per round.
A troll could be a serious threat to a 1st level party, but not an impossible match. It would take a few things to go the party's way for them to have a chance of defeating it. If encounter distance lets the party attack freely once or twice before entering melee. If they win initiative, and all hit with their attacks, even a 1st level party can deal considerable damage with good rolls, specially if they're 5-6 PC ganging up on it. The encounter doesn't have to last until the troll is dead, but when it's injured enought to flee. The use of magic could influence the encounter and the troll's reactionsas well.
Also, if the troll spreads its multiattack over sevral PCs rather than focus fire on a single one, he would not drop party member as fast, giving them a greater chance to succeed.
Finally, once the troll is sufficiently injured below half or quarter hit points, it could try to flee despite being surrounded and threatened, provoking a bunch of opportunity attacks.
There's ways to weaken it as well, reducing the troll hit points from previous injury he just received, even better from fire or acid so that it doesn't regenerate immediatly.... Of course if the troll is played well instead, it will be brutal and kill the party in a few rounds so it all depends of the DM also.
I think if it's made very clear to the players that the troll is not a threat to be faced directly, but something that needs to be outsmarted in some way they'll be able to handle it. If you send 5 level 1 characters into a 30x30 cave with a troll in it, they're going to get stomped. But let the players choose the battleground, let them set up some traps or bait to lure the troll. Maybe they'll catch it in a hunting trap, maybe they'll trap it under some boulders. Just help guide the players to not focus just on combat, but on making smart use of all the other options the game presents them. This would actually set a pretty solid precedent for the game going forward... establish early on that they're not limited just to combat. Going forward they'll start to look at problems laterally. It could lead to some fun "Witcher" or "Monster Hunter" style gameplay, where they find themselves focusing on researching the creatures they're going to fight so they can plan ahead and prepare to specifically be ready for those creatures.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium