Mistakes are pretty common, I've being playing for a long time and still making it sometimes.
1. Not only, sometimes they have usefull informations to DM to deal with certain circumstances, as giving a background for the DM to know how things got there or how creatures there are suppose to act. I think it depends on how its writen on the adventure you're running, but as I can remember most of them have sections relied on each case.
2. Don't need to. If you see that what is discribed is more a setting to the DM to know how the narrative goes you keep that information for you and avoid to railroad your players. For exemple, if the text says "at the end of the room there's a closed wardrobe filled with moldy clothes" the players were suppose to know of the moldy clothes only if they open the wardrobe.
3. Usually, I see that areas description in most adventure books suggest a "oppening presentation" in a text-box after "when the characters enter this area read:". That presentation is enought to set the scene. You can aslo change the presentation to your own words, and if there's no presentation suggested you can make your own in a way that the players can imagine how would be the character's view. Moreover, if any of the room content have a narrative matter (as a random bench in a corner that would be useless for the players progress) you can switch to anything you see appropriate.
The main porpouse on describing the room is to set the scenario and make it easy to the players to imagine the narrative. Too much details aren't needed when don't have a porpouse but you may include in the description whatever is important to the narrative.
For exemple, the party are about to enter a room where they might search for some item: This is a humble bedroom. A small drawer lies besides a simple bed in the far corner and a wardrobe are sligthly bent in the west wall. In the east wall, a small window give sight to the backyard of the house.
Here are presented what they need: a image of the room as a humble bedroom, the disposition of keyed objects where they might search for the item (inside the wardrobe, inside the drawer or behind the wardrobe since its bent) and the disposition of an alternative way to leave in a hurry situation (the window that leads to the backyard). Anything else are pure flavor. You can describe the quality or the details of the furniture, other items that might have inside the room as a bench or candles or the colors of the bed sheet and the coffee stain in the rug, but you don't need to and can let it up to your players to imagine that humble room as they wish.
Just be sure to describe the important to hook them to interact with, because if you forget to mention that wardrobe where the item might be, they could search just the drawer and leave without the item hidden in the wardrobe without even mind in ask if there's somwhere else to search here.
Edit
Also, you can say that a room have some growned bone in a corner if you want the players to have an insight that they might encounter a beast nearby or something like that (it usually are in the descriptions in the book) and you can also improve the areas description with your own flavor to enrich the scene, but don't mind too much with anything that don't bind into theire task cause you can fall into inducing them to follow an aimless path.
Finally, after 3½ months of rounding up friends & getting them to (verbally) agree on a time… I’ve played my first game
And boy did we make mistakes 😅
I had to leave an entire pillar of the game out because I couldn’t reference the information fast enough: exploration
Mistakes are normal :). As DM, you should read the part of the module the players plan to explore before the session they set out to explore it. This can be hard to do when it is the first session and the players haven't decided where to go - however, with DoIP - the adventures are in groups of 3 and they are short so the DM can read them over in advance. Preparation is very important the newer you are at the game since by reviewing the content you will know what the scene looks like, significant NPCs and how the narration is likely to develop which all contribute to running a session smoothly. Trying to read all the content for the first time as the players go through it can often not work out well.
“Embarrassing”… I know 😞
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
Anyway, (cutting short my “pity party”)…
The boxed text is to be read aloud
My question is regarding the unboxed text:
1. Is it only meant for the DM to be able to describe a new area to the PCs?
It is often meant for multiple purposes. It provides the DM some background on the scene. Sometimes explains why things appear the way they do. It adds additional detail that the DM may or may not reveal to the players depending on their judgement or perhaps on the character skills. The unboxed text gets gated by the DM and sometimes passed along to the players and sometimes not. It may in some cases depend on what the characters choose to do and in other cases the DM decides the narration will work better if the PCs have the information so they just tell them.
2. Do I volunteer any of the information written in unboxed text which normally seems to be detailed descriptions of the room entered?
Absolutely! At least some of the time - but is a DM call depending on the scene, the narration and the party of characters among other factors.
3. Do I wait for PCs to ask me details about the room & how many details should I give them (besides secret doors, walls & traps)?
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. If someone in the party has a high passive perception or investigation you might give them some more details that other characters don't see at first glance. Other times, there won't be much visible unless the party members actively start searching.
----------
One thing to keep in mind is that there is no RIGHT way to play D&D. Making a few "mistakes" running Gnomengarde doesn't mean you did it wrong and need to play it again. In fact, I would tend to avoid doing that :) unless you somehow killed off the entire party and need to start over :). Perhaps the characters discuss their experiences on the way back to Phandalin while the DM and players have a bit of a chat about what they will run differently the next time around. Getting descriptions perfect or not accidentally mentioning the secret door or giving up the location of the ..
mimic
.. really isn't a big deal.
So, if the party survived, I'd promote them to level 2 and continue :)
Glad you were finally able to get an actual game going! I know you have been trying to get started for a while now. If you and players had fun, you did it right.
Like David42 said, unless you had an accidental PC death or TPK, I would just keep rolling with it. The idea is everyone can learn from their mistakes and improve over time, both players and DM. If I were you I would identify those things that didn't go as planned and call it out at the beginning of the session "Hey everyone, since we played last time I have figured out I did X the wrong way. From now on, in this situation we will do Y." Most players will be cool with that as long as you let them know in advance. Incidentally, this is something even experienced DMs do all the time. Generally it is better to make a ruling on the fly, and keep the pace of the game going, than to slow down play by looking up every rule. Just make a logical decision and keep the game running, then look it up later, and if it needs to change, announce it next time.
I have started to keep notes of what went well and what went poorly each session, as well as anything I forgot to do. I can hardly remember a time I didn't forget something.
One more thing, with newer players, they might not be used to the flow yet, of declaring actions of what they want to search, etc. so you might want to be a little looser with what information to give out. With brand new players I have even given a prompt "is there anything in this room you would like to search?" etc.
Mistakes happen and it's cool just to roll with them and keep going. If a TPK happened, just remember1st level characters are really squishy and even the first few encounters of DoIP can be deadly. Remind new players that they can disengage and run. Have some NPCs available to help out (if it makes sense). Adjust the monsters HP (like maybe the manticore was in a fight with the dragon prior to going to the windmill - not my idea. I heard it somewhere maybe here?) As for room descriptions, most of those can be read right away, but keep in mind light levels. Characters without darkvision or a light source will see a whole lot of nothing. Even if they have darkvision, they may not see to the end of the room. Adjust your description accordingly including (like others have said) what makes sense for the characters to see. Keep in mind passive perception. Some characters might hear things before the rest of the party (like a kitchen full of gnomes). Read through the first 3 encounters, understand the key points, and how the encounters flow. Try to anticipate the different things your players might try and work through how you might handle it. If they do something totally unanticipated, that's awesome! Just go with it and make a judgement call. If it doesn't work, that's ok and make a change the next time something like that comes up.
Going forward, I’d suggest having players decide where they are going next at the end of the session. Then you can study up on that location for the next session, and not spread yourself too thin by trying to know every possible option.
And don’t feel bad about missing out on exploration, it’s really the least explained portion of the game.
I understand what you’re saying about the unboxed text- I’ve had the same problem. It sounds like it should be read to the players and then it goes and says something like: and a musty cupboard hiding a secret compartment with mithral armor
I read it out loud only when there’s no boxed text, and I be careful not to read the spoilers when I do, but it would be nice if it was more clear and provided a boxed text description for each room.
As for your game, I agree that you don’t need to start over- now that you have experience with how the module is written you’ll do fine on the next quest! Good luck!
Honestly in any one session I probably get two out of three pillars. It's hard for me to practice voices and remember lore and at the same time familiarize myself with monster abilities and have a tactical plan.
But generally when players enter a room, or any area where an encounter might happen - it can be outside - you should make a basic description of anything they would see at a glance. Depending on their passive perception you might go into more detail and go ahead and reveal hidden things that are below their passive perception threshold. But you don't need to tell them everything you know about the room. Give them enough basic facts to ask relevant questions, and then wait and see what they're interested in.
Personally, I skip box text in favor of my own, usually shorter and less flowery, initial description.
How can you determine which things are below their passive perception? Is this a "common sense" thing?
This is a great alternative use of passive perception actually, pretty genius - thanks for this 🙏🏾
So far, within my notes & the one time I've played this game (as a DM) I've always paraphrase the boxed text
The things that can be detected with Passive Perception are usually listed with a DC. Any other info gleaned is purely your decision, as would be the threshold for detection.
Example: The Fighter walks into the room and sees ivory inlaid into the woodwork, a scene depicts individuals farming and hunting. The Cleric walks into the room and sees that there is no ivory, only carved bones(from humans and other races). The scene depicts the skinning of humanoids and a mass burial thereafter!
Maybe the DC was 16 on a Passive Perception per the module or you just decided on the fly to add that level of detail and who might actually detect it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey all,
Finally, after 3½ months of rounding up friends & getting them to (verbally) agree on a time… I’ve played my first game
And boy did we make mistakes 😅
I had to leave an entire pillar of the game out because I couldn’t reference the information fast enough: exploration
“Embarrassing”… I know 😞
Anyway, (cutting short my “pity party”)…
The boxed text is to be read aloud
My question is regarding the unboxed text:
1. Is it only meant for the DM to be able to describe a new area to the PCs?
2. Do I volunteer any of the information written in unboxed text which normally seems to be detailed descriptions of the room entered?
3. Do I wait for PCs to ask me details about the room & how many details should I give them (besides secret doors, walls & traps)?
Mistakes are pretty common, I've being playing for a long time and still making it sometimes.
1. Not only, sometimes they have usefull informations to DM to deal with certain circumstances, as giving a background for the DM to know how things got there or how creatures there are suppose to act. I think it depends on how its writen on the adventure you're running, but as I can remember most of them have sections relied on each case.
2. Don't need to. If you see that what is discribed is more a setting to the DM to know how the narrative goes you keep that information for you and avoid to railroad your players. For exemple, if the text says "at the end of the room there's a closed wardrobe filled with moldy clothes" the players were suppose to know of the moldy clothes only if they open the wardrobe.
3. Usually, I see that areas description in most adventure books suggest a "oppening presentation" in a text-box after "when the characters enter this area read:". That presentation is enought to set the scene. You can aslo change the presentation to your own words, and if there's no presentation suggested you can make your own in a way that the players can imagine how would be the character's view. Moreover, if any of the room content have a narrative matter (as a random bench in a corner that would be useless for the players progress) you can switch to anything you see appropriate.
The main porpouse on describing the room is to set the scenario and make it easy to the players to imagine the narrative. Too much details aren't needed when don't have a porpouse but you may include in the description whatever is important to the narrative.
For exemple, the party are about to enter a room where they might search for some item: This is a humble bedroom. A small drawer lies besides a simple bed in the far corner and a wardrobe are sligthly bent in the west wall. In the east wall, a small window give sight to the backyard of the house.
Here are presented what they need: a image of the room as a humble bedroom, the disposition of keyed objects where they might search for the item (inside the wardrobe, inside the drawer or behind the wardrobe since its bent) and the disposition of an alternative way to leave in a hurry situation (the window that leads to the backyard). Anything else are pure flavor. You can describe the quality or the details of the furniture, other items that might have inside the room as a bench or candles or the colors of the bed sheet and the coffee stain in the rug, but you don't need to and can let it up to your players to imagine that humble room as they wish.
Just be sure to describe the important to hook them to interact with, because if you forget to mention that wardrobe where the item might be, they could search just the drawer and leave without the item hidden in the wardrobe without even mind in ask if there's somwhere else to search here.
Edit
Also, you can say that a room have some growned bone in a corner if you want the players to have an insight that they might encounter a beast nearby or something like that (it usually are in the descriptions in the book) and you can also improve the areas description with your own flavor to enrich the scene, but don't mind too much with anything that don't bind into theire task cause you can fall into inducing them to follow an aimless path.
Wich adventure are you running if you don't mind me asking?
DoIP - My players chose to travel to Gnomengarde 1st
Since our first game was riddled w/mistakes I decided to consider our first game "a wash"
And we'll start over & begin @ Phandalin again...
Hoping they'll choose Gnomengarde again because I've been studying that storyline the most so far as to prepare
Thank you for your response & insight 🙏🏾
Mistakes are normal :). As DM, you should read the part of the module the players plan to explore before the session they set out to explore it. This can be hard to do when it is the first session and the players haven't decided where to go - however, with DoIP - the adventures are in groups of 3 and they are short so the DM can read them over in advance. Preparation is very important the newer you are at the game since by reviewing the content you will know what the scene looks like, significant NPCs and how the narration is likely to develop which all contribute to running a session smoothly. Trying to read all the content for the first time as the players go through it can often not work out well.
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
It is often meant for multiple purposes. It provides the DM some background on the scene. Sometimes explains why things appear the way they do. It adds additional detail that the DM may or may not reveal to the players depending on their judgement or perhaps on the character skills. The unboxed text gets gated by the DM and sometimes passed along to the players and sometimes not. It may in some cases depend on what the characters choose to do and in other cases the DM decides the narration will work better if the PCs have the information so they just tell them.
Absolutely! At least some of the time - but is a DM call depending on the scene, the narration and the party of characters among other factors.
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. If someone in the party has a high passive perception or investigation you might give them some more details that other characters don't see at first glance. Other times, there won't be much visible unless the party members actively start searching.
----------
One thing to keep in mind is that there is no RIGHT way to play D&D. Making a few "mistakes" running Gnomengarde doesn't mean you did it wrong and need to play it again. In fact, I would tend to avoid doing that :) unless you somehow killed off the entire party and need to start over :). Perhaps the characters discuss their experiences on the way back to Phandalin while the DM and players have a bit of a chat about what they will run differently the next time around. Getting descriptions perfect or not accidentally mentioning the secret door or giving up the location of the ..
mimic
.. really isn't a big deal.
So, if the party survived, I'd promote them to level 2 and continue :)
P.S. Read the DM tips on page 3
Glad you were finally able to get an actual game going! I know you have been trying to get started for a while now. If you and players had fun, you did it right.
Like David42 said, unless you had an accidental PC death or TPK, I would just keep rolling with it. The idea is everyone can learn from their mistakes and improve over time, both players and DM. If I were you I would identify those things that didn't go as planned and call it out at the beginning of the session "Hey everyone, since we played last time I have figured out I did X the wrong way. From now on, in this situation we will do Y." Most players will be cool with that as long as you let them know in advance. Incidentally, this is something even experienced DMs do all the time. Generally it is better to make a ruling on the fly, and keep the pace of the game going, than to slow down play by looking up every rule. Just make a logical decision and keep the game running, then look it up later, and if it needs to change, announce it next time.
I have started to keep notes of what went well and what went poorly each session, as well as anything I forgot to do. I can hardly remember a time I didn't forget something.
One more thing, with newer players, they might not be used to the flow yet, of declaring actions of what they want to search, etc. so you might want to be a little looser with what information to give out. With brand new players I have even given a prompt "is there anything in this room you would like to search?" etc.
Mistakes happen and it's cool just to roll with them and keep going. If a TPK happened, just remember1st level characters are really squishy and even the first few encounters of DoIP can be deadly. Remind new players that they can disengage and run. Have some NPCs available to help out (if it makes sense). Adjust the monsters HP (like maybe the manticore was in a fight with the dragon prior to going to the windmill - not my idea. I heard it somewhere maybe here?) As for room descriptions, most of those can be read right away, but keep in mind light levels. Characters without darkvision or a light source will see a whole lot of nothing. Even if they have darkvision, they may not see to the end of the room. Adjust your description accordingly including (like others have said) what makes sense for the characters to see. Keep in mind passive perception. Some characters might hear things before the rest of the party (like a kitchen full of gnomes). Read through the first 3 encounters, understand the key points, and how the encounters flow. Try to anticipate the different things your players might try and work through how you might handle it. If they do something totally unanticipated, that's awesome! Just go with it and make a judgement call. If it doesn't work, that's ok and make a change the next time something like that comes up.
Going forward, I’d suggest having players decide where they are going next at the end of the session. Then you can study up on that location for the next session, and not spread yourself too thin by trying to know every possible option.
And don’t feel bad about missing out on exploration, it’s really the least explained portion of the game.
I understand what you’re saying about the unboxed text- I’ve had the same problem. It sounds like it should be read to the players and then it goes and says something like: and a musty cupboard hiding a secret compartment with mithral armor
I read it out loud only when there’s no boxed text, and I be careful not to read the spoilers when I do, but it would be nice if it was more clear and provided a boxed text description for each room.
As for your game, I agree that you don’t need to start over- now that you have experience with how the module is written you’ll do fine on the next quest! Good luck!
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Thank you
I have to catch up on all of the replies here
Honestly in any one session I probably get two out of three pillars. It's hard for me to practice voices and remember lore and at the same time familiarize myself with monster abilities and have a tactical plan.
But generally when players enter a room, or any area where an encounter might happen - it can be outside - you should make a basic description of anything they would see at a glance. Depending on their passive perception you might go into more detail and go ahead and reveal hidden things that are below their passive perception threshold. But you don't need to tell them everything you know about the room. Give them enough basic facts to ask relevant questions, and then wait and see what they're interested in.
Personally, I skip box text in favor of my own, usually shorter and less flowery, initial description.
This was extremely helpful
How can you determine which things are below their passive perception? Is this a "common sense" thing?
This is a great alternative use of passive perception actually, pretty genius - thanks for this 🙏🏾
So far, within my notes & the one time I've played this game (as a DM) I've always paraphrase the boxed text
The things that can be detected with Passive Perception are usually listed with a DC. Any other info gleaned is purely your decision, as would be the threshold for detection.
Example: The Fighter walks into the room and sees ivory inlaid into the woodwork, a scene depicts individuals farming and hunting. The Cleric walks into the room and sees that there is no ivory, only carved bones(from humans and other races). The scene depicts the skinning of humanoids and a mass burial thereafter!
Maybe the DC was 16 on a Passive Perception per the module or you just decided on the fly to add that level of detail and who might actually detect it.