I noticed in the scrying spell that the spell does not specify if the invisible sensor is intangible while other spells (like spiritual weapon) and features (like the Mote of Potential from the College of Creation) describe the created object as spectral or intangible. So, there are instances where objects created by a spell or a feature can be described as intangible or spectral but are specified by the spell or feature. However, the scrying spell makes no clarification of this. Does this mean that the sensor created by the scrying spell is tangible?
The main reason why I'm asking this is to see if a creature with blindsight could see the sensor or if players could pinpoint the sensors location with rain or flour to dispel it using dispel magic.
Given that there are no rules for interacting with it, I would assume it is intangible. Generally if it's possible to interact with it (other than casting dispel magic on it) the spell will give it stats.
The description as "invisible sensor" suggests that if you can see invisible things then you can see the sensor - which means you can target it with Dispel Magic and similar effects.
Mage Hand can only carry 10 lbs of weight, so if the hand starts moving something you should be able to grab hold of that thing and stop the hand from moving it any further.
Since there are no rules for it, neither can be attacked with a damaging effect since it is no HP or AC listed.
I understand that the sensor can't be damaged. I'm wondering if it is tangible so that creatures with blindsight could notice it. If it is tangible, that would also mean that people could cover the sensor with something (and that thing would float in the air).
I understand that the sensor can't be damaged. I'm wondering if it is tangible so that creatures with blindsight could notice it. If it is tangible, that would also mean that people could cover the sensor with something (and that thing would float in the air).
Generally blindsight would see, according to RAW rules, although a DM might decide that certain types of blindsight don't see it.
Since there is no mention in the spell about being able to block its vision by covering it, I would assume it can't be blocked by draping something over it - so it perhaps isn't tangible from that point of view.
So, an Ooze's blindsight and the fighting style Blind Fighting would allow a creature to see a scrying sensor within 10 feet of them but the sensor will not be tangible?
Blind sight lets you see invisible things. That is the general rule. There are some exceptions, such as silence preventing the use of blindsight by bats and other echo-locators.
But in general, blindsight will see things like a scry sensor.
From what I understand, blindsight arises in creatures from a heightened non-sight-based sense. Examples the PHB gives are echolocation and smell. This means that perceiving an object using blindsight is dependent on that object physically interacting with the world (reflecting sound, producing a smell, disturbing a breeze, etc.). However, if an object is intangible (meaning nothing can touch it), that means it cannot physically interact with anything, and thus cannot interact with the senses of a creature with blindsight.
So given that a scrying sensor is intangible, a creature with blindsight would be incapable of perceiving it.
Likewise, if a creature with blindsight can see a scrying sensor, it must be tangible.
From what I understand, blindsight arises in creatures from a heightened non-sight-based sense.
There is no general definition of how blindsight works, and its description doesn't place any restrictions on what it can perceive, so whether it can see the sensor does not depend on whether the sensor is tangible.
So, is the sensor tangible or not? There are many different spells can create spectral objects (like spiritual weapon) or intangible objects (like minor illusion); however, those spells give the signification that the objects are intangible (by saying "things can pass through it" Basic Rules Pg. 260) or spectral. There is no designation written in the scrying. That does not prove, however, that it is tangible: only that other spells have used that language.
The sensor does not have hit points or AC, does not occupy a space, does not specify any effects created by interacting with it, nor does it give any guidelines that would be helpful for deciding the effects of interacting with it. The easiest way to get that combination of traits is to be intangible, though a DM could decide otherwise in particular cases.
There is no general definition of how blindsight works, and its description doesn't place any restrictions on what it can perceive, so whether it can see the sensor does not depend on whether the sensor is tangible.
5e does lack a detailed description for what gives a creature blindsight. However, when we look at the rules for 3.5e, (which 5e was based on) we get a much clearer picture for what was intended:
Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature’s description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.
Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight.
Blindsight does not subject a creature to gaze attacks (even though darkvision does).
Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures using blindsight.
Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing.
Blindsight works underwater but not in a vacuum.
Blindsight negates displacement and blur effects.
One key point to note here is that blindsight fails to work in a vacuum. That means that the information that blindsight grants requires a physical medium to be transmitted through (air, water, etc.). Hence, if an object is both invisible and intangible, then the object cannot interact with the physical surroundings of the creature, and thus blindsight RAI would not be able to detect it.
However, mage hand also states no hit points or AC, but is still tangible since it can interact with objects.
Not required. Plenty of intangible entities can interact with objects. Nothing in RAW prevents, say, a ghost from grappling with you, though you can't grapple it back.
Is there any game-breaking reason(s) why it would be bad for the DM if the sensor is tangible?
Personally, I think it would be very cool and funny if the scrying sensor was tangible. However, I can think of a few problems that might occur at the table as a result.
1. Can a scrying sensor be grabbed and moved? How difficult would it be to move? How much weight would it be able to support?
2. If you're running away from the sensor and close a door between yourself and the sensor, what happens to the sensor if you keep running away from it? Remember, the spell says that the sensor moves with the target. Does it get stuck behind the door? Does it break through the door? Does it teleport to the other side of the door?
The rulings on this spell could become a bit too cumbersome or inconsistent when you allow the sensor to be tangible. If the sensor is intangible, most of these issues seem to resolve themselves, so that's probably how it's supposed to be run.
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I noticed in the scrying spell that the spell does not specify if the invisible sensor is intangible while other spells (like spiritual weapon) and features (like the Mote of Potential from the College of Creation) describe the created object as spectral or intangible. So, there are instances where objects created by a spell or a feature can be described as intangible or spectral but are specified by the spell or feature. However, the scrying spell makes no clarification of this. Does this mean that the sensor created by the scrying spell is tangible?
The main reason why I'm asking this is to see if a creature with blindsight could see the sensor or if players could pinpoint the sensors location with rain or flour to dispel it using dispel magic.
Given that there are no rules for interacting with it, I would assume it is intangible. Generally if it's possible to interact with it (other than casting dispel magic on it) the spell will give it stats.
What about mage hand? It is described as spectral; however it can interact with objects and has no stats given for it.
That doesn't mean objects can interact with it.
The description as "invisible sensor" suggests that if you can see invisible things then you can see the sensor - which means you can target it with Dispel Magic and similar effects.
Mage Hand can only carry 10 lbs of weight, so if the hand starts moving something you should be able to grab hold of that thing and stop the hand from moving it any further.
Since there are no rules for it, neither can be attacked with a damaging effect since it is no HP or AC listed.
I understand that the sensor can't be damaged. I'm wondering if it is tangible so that creatures with blindsight could notice it. If it is tangible, that would also mean that people could cover the sensor with something (and that thing would float in the air).
Generally blindsight would see, according to RAW rules, although a DM might decide that certain types of blindsight don't see it.
Since there is no mention in the spell about being able to block its vision by covering it, I would assume it can't be blocked by draping something over it - so it perhaps isn't tangible from that point of view.
So, an Ooze's blindsight and the fighting style Blind Fighting would allow a creature to see a scrying sensor within 10 feet of them but the sensor will not be tangible?
Being tangible is not a requirement for being detectable with blindsight. Though the 5e sensory rules are in general a trainwreck.
Blind sight lets you see invisible things. That is the general rule. There are some exceptions, such as silence preventing the use of blindsight by bats and other echo-locators.
But in general, blindsight will see things like a scry sensor.
From what I understand, blindsight arises in creatures from a heightened non-sight-based sense. Examples the PHB gives are echolocation and smell. This means that perceiving an object using blindsight is dependent on that object physically interacting with the world (reflecting sound, producing a smell, disturbing a breeze, etc.). However, if an object is intangible (meaning nothing can touch it), that means it cannot physically interact with anything, and thus cannot interact with the senses of a creature with blindsight.
So given that a scrying sensor is intangible, a creature with blindsight would be incapable of perceiving it.
Likewise, if a creature with blindsight can see a scrying sensor, it must be tangible.
There is no general definition of how blindsight works, and its description doesn't place any restrictions on what it can perceive, so whether it can see the sensor does not depend on whether the sensor is tangible.
So, is the sensor tangible or not? There are many different spells can create spectral objects (like spiritual weapon) or intangible objects (like minor illusion); however, those spells give the signification that the objects are intangible (by saying "things can pass through it" Basic Rules Pg. 260) or spectral. There is no designation written in the scrying. That does not prove, however, that it is tangible: only that other spells have used that language.
The sensor does not have hit points or AC, does not occupy a space, does not specify any effects created by interacting with it, nor does it give any guidelines that would be helpful for deciding the effects of interacting with it. The easiest way to get that combination of traits is to be intangible, though a DM could decide otherwise in particular cases.
However, mage hand also states no hit points or AC, but is still tangible since it can interact with objects.
5e does lack a detailed description for what gives a creature blindsight. However, when we look at the rules for 3.5e, (which 5e was based on) we get a much clearer picture for what was intended:
One key point to note here is that blindsight fails to work in a vacuum. That means that the information that blindsight grants requires a physical medium to be transmitted through (air, water, etc.). Hence, if an object is both invisible and intangible, then the object cannot interact with the physical surroundings of the creature, and thus blindsight RAI would not be able to detect it.
Not required. Plenty of intangible entities can interact with objects. Nothing in RAW prevents, say, a ghost from grappling with you, though you can't grapple it back.
You can punch a ghost and deal damage to it. It is not intangible.
Is there any game-breaking reason(s) why it would be bad for the DM if the sensor is tangible?
Personally, I think it would be very cool and funny if the scrying sensor was tangible. However, I can think of a few problems that might occur at the table as a result.
1. Can a scrying sensor be grabbed and moved? How difficult would it be to move? How much weight would it be able to support?
2. If you're running away from the sensor and close a door between yourself and the sensor, what happens to the sensor if you keep running away from it? Remember, the spell says that the sensor moves with the target. Does it get stuck behind the door? Does it break through the door? Does it teleport to the other side of the door?
The rulings on this spell could become a bit too cumbersome or inconsistent when you allow the sensor to be tangible. If the sensor is intangible, most of these issues seem to resolve themselves, so that's probably how it's supposed to be run.