I'm a rookie DM working on an adult dragon NPC that conceals himself as a human and plays a notable role in a potential story arc. The NPC interacts with an established community (think town or religious order) regularly, but always without revealing his true self. I want my players to interact with this character occasionally, and I anticipate they will eventually get wise to the fact that the NPC is not what he appears to be, but I want the reveal to happen slowly and (ideally) on the NPC's terms.
Is there a way for me to prevent PCs from detecting the illusion? My original thought was that the PCs only interact with this dragon on/near his lair (without them knowing it), and that the lair's effect allows him to conceal himself while creating some form of anti-magic field (either around him or around a specific location).
Wide open for suggestions on this one... and thanks for the help!
Give the dragon an amulet of proof against detection and location. That should allow the dragon to never be completely found out so that it can reveal itself on its own terms, as you put it. If the party asks the NPC, just have them say they angered a mage once.
I wouldn't worry about magic items to detect who the dragon is, just state that when a dragon polymorphs you can't detect that it is magically polymorphed. You could also just state its a dragon trait or create a new magic item to do it, but frankly its more about wrapping yourself around the axel. It's magic and you can do what you want for a NPC to make it interesting.
Remember polymorph isn't an illusion, it's transmutation. One thing you could do is have a number of magics affecting the NPC. I'm not sure if detect magic detects the effects of polymorph or whatever high level shape changing many metallic dragons have access to, but if someone casts detect magic on them, all you do is list the schools of magic affecting the NPC, so no "dragon" just "magical." Or you have a magic block like the aforementioned amulet, in which case the NPC may give off a magical dead zone. What you need is to role play the dragon well enough that the players will buy into this as a "mystery hook" that isn't going to play out in a single encounter.
Yeah, there's things like Zone of truth, but most dragons, at least the ones that interact with humanoids, are clever enough to socially finesse they're way around such uncouth manners of interrogation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think Nystul's Magic Aura could account for the descrepancy in a magical aura that might be detected. Also helpful if you happen to have someone who can detect the presence of X type of creature within Y feet. It lasts a good long while, and is of a level that most dragons with a spellcasting trait would have access to.
You could create a magic item that grants this effect to the owner while attuned and that object would be the identifiable link to the two. A distinct earring or bracelet/anklet, maybe there is a pendant on a chain or a locket. And, as some others have suggested, you have the ability to simply handwave the ability to detect the changed creature. That last one's not as fun, to me, simply because as a DM, we have the power to do anything. We can easily kill a PC or prevent them from learning a thing just by saying so. Giving the PCs the faintest hint that something is different about the NPC makes them memorable. Especially once the big reveal happens.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Thanks Kaavel! I think we have a winner with Nystul's Magic Aura. The fact that both "False Aura" and "Mask" can be applied simultaneously AND it can be set to "permanent until dispelled" (by renewing daily for 30 days) solves a lot of problems. Given the age of this dragon and the role I expect him to play, I'll find a way to ensure he has counterspell at the ready in case anyone gets frisky.
And I appreciate MidnightPlat's guidance on how to describe my way around a detect magic spell or some other attempt at scrutinizing the NPC ahead of schedule.
Great stuff! Very grateful for the assist!
Edit: On second thought, I'm splitting hairs. Why not give the dragon the amulet AND the spell? Very helpful set of responses indeed!
One more thought, since I totally stole the NPC out of BG:DitA and ran wild with them, but that adventure has Burnie the Barber, a copper dragon on direct assignment from Bahamut to run a sort of spy "listening station" on Avernus. She has Mind Blank permacast on her, presumably by Bahamut. My version of her is a bit more complicated (the Avernus mission is sort of exile for reasons that led Bahamut to want her as far away from his court as possible, so, Avernus) and the permaspell was the result of compiling a lot of obfuscating magics used by a broad range of planar entities who like to keep a low profile. Anyway, the hidden dragon is a fun trope and a great basis for a patron who can provide progressive resources as the party scales up, so to speak, and proves their worth ... or an adversary.
I would note that a dragon with the Change Shape ability (common for metallic dragons, a standard customization for others) doesn't detect as affected by magic in the first place, as that's an innate ability, not a spell. Other than True Seeing, which is a sixth level spell, nothing PCs have access to will reveal its true form.
Primeval Awareness grants the ability for a Ranger to detect the presence of aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead within a 1 mile radius. Change Shape ability or not, it's still a dragon and can be detected as such.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I think people already touched on this, but baseline you're the DM and can break the rules for narrative purposes. You can just say they can't be detected by normal means. However, if you want to do it by RAW means, it's worth noting that a dragon's shapeshift ability or a polymorph spell is transmutation not illusion. Interacting with the NPC won't reveal that it's a concealed dragon RAW. By either of the afore mentioned means, they actually transform into the humanoid, not just become disguised as the humanoid form.
Just my 2 cents. Hope this helped!
Edit: That said, it's also worth considering that by making it impossible for the PCs to discover the dragon's true form "ahead of time", you're railroading them slightly. While I understand not wanting the surprise to be spoiled by some random detect magic, I also think you should make it possible for the PCs to discover it, without just saying that everything fails because he has 5 spells and 3 magic items.
Primeval Awareness grants the ability for a Ranger to detect the presence of aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead within a 1 mile radius. Change Shape ability or not, it's still a dragon and can be detected as such.
Not their location or number though, just that they exist. It could be explained off easily with a quick nest of drakes or something.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco. No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
"While wearing this ring, you are immune to magic that allows other creatures to read your thoughts, determine whether you are lying, know your alignment, or know your creature type. " How it interacts with non-spell powers such as primeval awareness is unspecified, but I would generally still treat it as magic.
In terms of helping the players not figure this out I had a campaign with this exact idea.
Silver dragon (ended up being the big bad) would turn into humanoid creatures to hire the party to do things, each time it shifted its form to present as a different individual with some tells.
The first was the dragon, whenever he transformed, would be covered in tattoos. This was an idea lifted from an old version of DND where some dragons had there spells formed as runes on there bodies. Much like a wizards spell book. This dragon was absorbing and learning a particular magic spell (he was going to do a thanos type thing and eradicate all “evil” creatures from all the planes.) so over time he got more and more intricate tattoos.
The second was an amulet the dragon always wore as a humanoid.
The third was the dragon always paid in platinum in its human form.
I also dropped things into conversation, small things that slowly caught the attention of the characters and players.
The key thing was not trying to fake out the players or characters, once it was clear they knew something was up with these individuals (part of a cult or something). I moved forward with the reveal.
Shapeshifted dragons were a huge plot twist in my campaign, and if I learned anything from the experience, it's that players don't pick up on nearly as much as you'd think.
One of my hidden dragons gave her personal crest to the party to use as political collateral. The crest was a dragon coiled in the shape of the first letter of her name. She owned a hoard of magical items that she kept in her dungeon. Belonged to a governmental group with a name that spoilered her scale color. They still didn't make the connection. Mind you, my players are world-class conspiracy theorists, too! Very sharp people, prolific note takers. Still got blindsided in the best of ways, lol.
All this to say, you may not even need to worry. DM hints often go right over players' heads. Definitely prepare for it just in case, but also consider that you might want to go the other direction and give them some neon signs to make the reveal more of an "aha!" moment.
Now that's a point very often overlooked. I almost have to hit my players over the head with a hint for them to pick up on it. If I give them the same hint three times, they start to consider it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Now that's a point very often overlooked. I almost have to hit my players over the head with a hint for them to pick up on it. If I give them the same hint three times, they start to consider it.
Yep players say they hate being railroaded so you try to give them clues and subtle hints to do with what they want, and they just then don't even pick up on them.
Later on players ask you what was going on with that thing back then, you explain, and they say, oh, I wish you have made that really obvious so i couldn't ignore it please don't railroad us, but please tell us what we are meant to do next.
I would note that a dragon with the Change Shape ability (common for metallic dragons, a standard customization for others) doesn't detect as affected by magic in the first place, as that's an innate ability, not a spell. Other than True Seeing, which is a sixth level spell, nothing PCs have access to will reveal its true form.
Not sure how I missed it, but I did not realize that innate abilities behaved differently than their spell equivalents. I'm learning a lot in here! Thank you
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello fellow DMs!
I'm a rookie DM working on an adult dragon NPC that conceals himself as a human and plays a notable role in a potential story arc. The NPC interacts with an established community (think town or religious order) regularly, but always without revealing his true self. I want my players to interact with this character occasionally, and I anticipate they will eventually get wise to the fact that the NPC is not what he appears to be, but I want the reveal to happen slowly and (ideally) on the NPC's terms.
Is there a way for me to prevent PCs from detecting the illusion? My original thought was that the PCs only interact with this dragon on/near his lair (without them knowing it), and that the lair's effect allows him to conceal himself while creating some form of anti-magic field (either around him or around a specific location).
Wide open for suggestions on this one... and thanks for the help!
Give the dragon an amulet of proof against detection and location. That should allow the dragon to never be completely found out so that it can reveal itself on its own terms, as you put it. If the party asks the NPC, just have them say they angered a mage once.
Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
My homebrew stuff:
Spells, Monsters, Magic Items, Feats, Subclasses.
I am an Archfey, but nobody seems to notice.
Extended Signature
I wouldn't worry about magic items to detect who the dragon is, just state that when a dragon polymorphs you can't detect that it is magically polymorphed. You could also just state its a dragon trait or create a new magic item to do it, but frankly its more about wrapping yourself around the axel. It's magic and you can do what you want for a NPC to make it interesting.
Remember polymorph isn't an illusion, it's transmutation. One thing you could do is have a number of magics affecting the NPC. I'm not sure if detect magic detects the effects of polymorph or whatever high level shape changing many metallic dragons have access to, but if someone casts detect magic on them, all you do is list the schools of magic affecting the NPC, so no "dragon" just "magical." Or you have a magic block like the aforementioned amulet, in which case the NPC may give off a magical dead zone. What you need is to role play the dragon well enough that the players will buy into this as a "mystery hook" that isn't going to play out in a single encounter.
Yeah, there's things like Zone of truth, but most dragons, at least the ones that interact with humanoids, are clever enough to socially finesse they're way around such uncouth manners of interrogation.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think Nystul's Magic Aura could account for the descrepancy in a magical aura that might be detected. Also helpful if you happen to have someone who can detect the presence of X type of creature within Y feet. It lasts a good long while, and is of a level that most dragons with a spellcasting trait would have access to.
You could create a magic item that grants this effect to the owner while attuned and that object would be the identifiable link to the two. A distinct earring or bracelet/anklet, maybe there is a pendant on a chain or a locket. And, as some others have suggested, you have the ability to simply handwave the ability to detect the changed creature. That last one's not as fun, to me, simply because as a DM, we have the power to do anything. We can easily kill a PC or prevent them from learning a thing just by saying so. Giving the PCs the faintest hint that something is different about the NPC makes them memorable. Especially once the big reveal happens.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Thanks Kaavel! I think we have a winner with Nystul's Magic Aura. The fact that both "False Aura" and "Mask" can be applied simultaneously AND it can be set to "permanent until dispelled" (by renewing daily for 30 days) solves a lot of problems. Given the age of this dragon and the role I expect him to play, I'll find a way to ensure he has counterspell at the ready in case anyone gets frisky.
And I appreciate MidnightPlat's guidance on how to describe my way around a detect magic spell or some other attempt at scrutinizing the NPC ahead of schedule.
Great stuff! Very grateful for the assist!
Edit: On second thought, I'm splitting hairs. Why not give the dragon the amulet AND the spell? Very helpful set of responses indeed!
One more thought, since I totally stole the NPC out of BG:DitA and ran wild with them, but that adventure has Burnie the Barber, a copper dragon on direct assignment from Bahamut to run a sort of spy "listening station" on Avernus. She has Mind Blank permacast on her, presumably by Bahamut. My version of her is a bit more complicated (the Avernus mission is sort of exile for reasons that led Bahamut to want her as far away from his court as possible, so, Avernus) and the permaspell was the result of compiling a lot of obfuscating magics used by a broad range of planar entities who like to keep a low profile. Anyway, the hidden dragon is a fun trope and a great basis for a patron who can provide progressive resources as the party scales up, so to speak, and proves their worth ... or an adversary.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would note that a dragon with the Change Shape ability (common for metallic dragons, a standard customization for others) doesn't detect as affected by magic in the first place, as that's an innate ability, not a spell. Other than True Seeing, which is a sixth level spell, nothing PCs have access to will reveal its true form.
Primeval Awareness grants the ability for a Ranger to detect the presence of aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead within a 1 mile radius. Change Shape ability or not, it's still a dragon and can be detected as such.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I think people already touched on this, but baseline you're the DM and can break the rules for narrative purposes. You can just say they can't be detected by normal means. However, if you want to do it by RAW means, it's worth noting that a dragon's shapeshift ability or a polymorph spell is transmutation not illusion. Interacting with the NPC won't reveal that it's a concealed dragon RAW. By either of the afore mentioned means, they actually transform into the humanoid, not just become disguised as the humanoid form.
Just my 2 cents. Hope this helped!
Edit: That said, it's also worth considering that by making it impossible for the PCs to discover the dragon's true form "ahead of time", you're railroading them slightly. While I understand not wanting the surprise to be spoiled by some random detect magic, I also think you should make it possible for the PCs to discover it, without just saying that everything fails because he has 5 spells and 3 magic items.
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
A ring of mind shielding should do the trick
Not their location or number though, just that they exist. It could be explained off easily with a quick nest of drakes or something.
I don’t think they do that.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco.
No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
"While wearing this ring, you are immune to magic that allows other creatures to read your thoughts, determine whether you are lying, know your alignment, or know your creature type. " How it interacts with non-spell powers such as primeval awareness is unspecified, but I would generally still treat it as magic.
In terms of helping the players not figure this out I had a campaign with this exact idea.
Silver dragon (ended up being the big bad) would turn into humanoid creatures to hire the party to do things, each time it shifted its form to present as a different individual with some tells.
The first was the dragon, whenever he transformed, would be covered in tattoos. This was an idea lifted from an old version of DND where some dragons had there spells formed as runes on there bodies. Much like a wizards spell book. This dragon was absorbing and learning a particular magic spell (he was going to do a thanos type thing and eradicate all “evil” creatures from all the planes.) so over time he got more and more intricate tattoos.
The second was an amulet the dragon always wore as a humanoid.
The third was the dragon always paid in platinum in its human form.
I also dropped things into conversation, small things that slowly caught the attention of the characters and players.
The key thing was not trying to fake out the players or characters, once it was clear they knew something was up with these individuals (part of a cult or something). I moved forward with the reveal.
Shapeshifted dragons were a huge plot twist in my campaign, and if I learned anything from the experience, it's that players don't pick up on nearly as much as you'd think.
One of my hidden dragons gave her personal crest to the party to use as political collateral. The crest was a dragon coiled in the shape of the first letter of her name. She owned a hoard of magical items that she kept in her dungeon. Belonged to a governmental group with a name that spoilered her scale color. They still didn't make the connection. Mind you, my players are world-class conspiracy theorists, too! Very sharp people, prolific note takers. Still got blindsided in the best of ways, lol.
All this to say, you may not even need to worry. DM hints often go right over players' heads. Definitely prepare for it just in case, but also consider that you might want to go the other direction and give them some neon signs to make the reveal more of an "aha!" moment.
Now that's a point very often overlooked. I almost have to hit my players over the head with a hint for them to pick up on it. If I give them the same hint three times, they start to consider it.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Yep players say they hate being railroaded so you try to give them clues and subtle hints to do with what they want, and they just then don't even pick up on them.
Later on players ask you what was going on with that thing back then, you explain, and they say, oh, I wish you have made that really obvious so i couldn't ignore it please don't railroad us, but please tell us what we are meant to do next.
Not sure how I missed it, but I did not realize that innate abilities behaved differently than their spell equivalents. I'm learning a lot in here! Thank you