My players are Level 6 and they are entering a dungeon to which they find a cult that worships an amphibian god.
The big fight at the end will result in them fighting slaad tadpoles and 2 blue slaads. Just wondering though, is this overkill or should I only put 1 blue slaad in or a green and blue slaad? Just thinking is this too much for L6?
One blue slaad is enough. Honestly 2 blue slaads is way to much, if you really wanted to make it hard you could do 1 green slaad and 2 slaad tadpoles.
PS. Dnd beyond's encounter builder is a helpful tool that I'de reccomend using (though remember to ignore the multiplyer for multiple monsters here since there CR is way to far apart).
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Two Blue Slaad would be a very difficult fight for a level 6 party, one Slaad could potentially down a party member in one round if the dice go their way. Two Red Slaad or one Green Slaad might be more appropriate for their level.
Red and Blue Slaad don't have any ranged attacks, so be aware that if one of your party knows Fly, you won't be able to damage them if they use it.
My general rule of thumb is that total CR equal to half the party's total levels will be a formidable challenge (this will be well over Deadly by the encounter builder, but in general Deadly should be thought of as a floor for interesting encounters, not a ceiling).
I would go with red slaad because they are an appropriate level and create the tad poles, meaning it makes more sense. It also really depends how you intend the encounter to go and if anything else is going on. A red slaad with 2-3 tad poles is a deadly encounter but realistically the slaad will be focus fired and taken down quickly if it is just one powerful slaad with trivial minions. So I wouldn't worry too much about the tad poles unless there is going to be enough to be more than a trivial threat to the party on their own they'll likely be ignored.
Other suggestions
Blessed Tank slaad
If you want a battle where only the slaad matters, it's defensive abilities are important so consider armor or a defensive buff on it. a good buff could be the shadow of moil it is like invisibility but doesn't actually hide the creature and gives the a damage aura. That won't actually increase the slaad's offence very much but defensively it adds allot, combine that with an occasional tad pole spawn and that could make your players freak.
other suggestions
the spawning pool
You could probably pull off something like a pool of tad poles where 1d4 jump out at people at people every round or something if they are in a certain range of the pool. That could be a fun balancing and on the fly balancing mechanic. If you find that your encounter is too easy you can just have another red slaad climb out of the pool to stretch it's legs for the first time (possible still with it's tail or with reduced health). If it's too hard you spawn less tad poles and the players will never know
Infected cultists
You could do something similar but more horrific with people infected with slaad diseases. You could throw in some cultist or cult fanatic and when they die they spawn tad poles. They might be more capable of being a threat and distracting from the main red slaad. Shadow of moil as a cloak of flies is a fun effect and will make the slaad quite defensively powerful without risk of it going out of control with high damage.
Environmental effects
An environment that favors that slaad could be nice too like an area covered in slime that acts like grease for all but the slaad or maybe a foul stench that applies disadvantage.
Two Blue Slaad would be a very difficult fight for a level 6 party, one Slaad could potentially down a party member in one round if the dice go their way. Two Red Slaad or one Green Slaad might be more appropriate for their level.
Red and Blue Slaad don't have any ranged attacks, so be aware that if one of your party knows Fly, you won't be able to damage them if they use it.
If you are worried about flying just add a roof and, or give the slaad a climb speed like a tree frog.
Tbh, it really depends. How many players do you have?
My lv 6 party would steamroll 2 Blue Slaads. It depends on how optimized for combat the characters are as well, but I had a party of 4 lv 3 characters take a Red Slaad after fighting stuff, and it was not that difficult.
If you have six level 6 players in your party it will be a Hard Encounter. If you got players who built their characters well, 5 could handle it easy, 4 could take them but it would be difficult. What you are missing is that Blue Slaads can and will effectively kill at least one or two players by saving throw. Throw some hints about how they can kill you if you get infected and its unlikely you can do anything. If they have a Paladin or Warforged tank and they can maintain agro, then its probably ok. But your players will have to make at least two DC 15 saving throws or die in 24 hours and only a Wish can save them. They are not going to have access to Wish at level 6. So think this one through.
Again, make sure that they know the beast can kill by infecting them with a growth. When playing the Blue Slaad, he will focus on one player, most likely the highest hit points who can take the claw attacks. The minute the Blue Slaad has impregnated the player, have him grimace and then ignore the player and go after the next player. He will NOT kill an infected player, that will prevent their reproduction. Most likely his bite attack will be used on nearby players interfering with its reproduction.
I've used them before, I have a bullywug warn them of the nasty infection with no cure, and the idiot barbarian ran ahead and died by the second attack quite oblivious. He didn't get protection from good and evil (the party got an alligator necklace that could cast it 6 times - nope couldn't wait, he's the super barb nothin can kill the super barb) and just got wiped. The whole time he's fighting he hasn't realized why he stopped attacking him and went after the rogue, infecting him as well. For a five party group, only three survived, and that was a single slaad not two. You will at the bare minimum lose two players unless they are a thinking group, they pay attention to warnings and plan accordingly.
If you have six level 6 players in your party it will be a Hard Encounter. If you got players who built their characters well, 5 could handle it easy, 4 could take them but it would be difficult. What you are missing is that Blue Slaads can and will effectively kill at least one or two players by saving throw. Throw some hints about how they can kill you if you get infected and its unlikely you can do anything. If they have a Paladin or Warforged tank and they can maintain agro, then its probably ok. But your players will have to make at least two DC 15 saving throws or die in 24 hours and only a Wish can save them. They are not going to have access to Wish at level 6. So think this one through.
Again, make sure that they know the beast can kill by infecting them with a growth. When playing the Blue Slaad, he will focus on one player, most likely the highest hit points who can take the claw attacks. The minute the Blue Slaad has impregnated the player, have him grimace and then ignore the player and go after the next player. He will NOT kill an infected player, that will prevent their reproduction. Most likely his bite attack will be used on nearby players interfering with its reproduction.
I've used them before, I have a bullywug warn them of the nasty infection with no cure, and the idiot barbarian ran ahead and died by the second attack quite oblivious. He didn't get protection from good and evil (the party got an alligator necklace that could cast it 6 times - nope couldn't wait, he's the super barb nothin can kill the super barb) and just got wiped. The whole time he's fighting he hasn't realized why he stopped attacking him and went after the rogue, infecting him as well. For a five party group, only three survived, and that was a single slaad not two. You will at the bare minimum lose two players unless they are a thinking group, they pay attention to warnings and plan accordingly.
This is really helpful thank you. They are all experience players and I was thinking about dropping hints along the way. In regards to fighting against it, I was under the impression that Lesser Restoration would cure the disaster before the transformation (before the player reaches 0HP). As it doesn’t state it can’t cure it.
In regards to fighting against it, I was under the impression that Lesser Restoration would cure the disaster before the transformation (before the player reaches 0HP). As it doesn’t state it can’t cure it.
Lesser restoration will cure it, if they think to cast it; they should not immediately realize that they have a disease.
In regards to fighting against it, I was under the impression that Lesser Restoration would cure the disaster before the transformation (before the player reaches 0HP). As it doesn’t state it can’t cure it.
Lesser restoration will cure it, if they think to cast it; they should not immediately realize that they have a disease.
They will realize, they can't regain HP and failed a CON save prior. And in no point in the text it specifies that it is a silent disease.
It's not like someone can have a disease that has actual effects and don't realize it, would require some big DM x Player behavior to just go: "Ha ha next day you die".
Honestly, unless the DM pull something like this, is very unlikely that the character would die - in order for the creature to transform their HP maximum needs to be reduced to 0, it's not their current HP.
I think it's an interesting feature that put a timer on the players and add some pressure, but, aside from this, it would require some extreme situations to it to actually be deadly. (E.g: The party don't have a Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Divine Soul Sorc.... etc and it's on the middle of nowhere). Because, remember, the effects take place 24 hours after the infection, meaning that, the characters can take an 8 hour long rest before the effect takes place. Even if the characters HP maximum is on range for the reduction (Which is almost impossible for 6th lv characters), he would not die until the same time next day, so characters could get back their spells/feature and cure the disease before the 24 hour mark.
Even if the character infected is the healer, as long as he is not at 0, taking a long rest would still recover his spells slots/lay on hands.
I've used them before, I had a bullywug warn them of the nasty infection with no cure, and the idiot barbarian ran ahead and died by the second attack quite oblivious. He didn't get protection from good and evil (the party got an alligator necklace that could cast it 6 times - nope couldn't wait, he's the super barb nothin can kill the super barb) and just got wiped. The whole time he's fighting he hasn't realized why he stopped attacking him and went after the rogue, infecting him as well. For a five party group, only three survived, and that was a single slaad not two. You will at the bare minimum lose two players unless they are a thinking group, they pay attention to warnings and plan accordingly.
"While infected, the target can’t regain hit points, and its hit point maximum is reduced by 10 (3d6) every 24 hours. If the disease reduces the target’s hit point maximum to 0, the target instantly transforms into a red slaad or, if it has the ability to cast spells of 3rd level or higher, a green slaad. Only a wish spell can reverse the transformation."
Considering an average health barb. of lv 6, he should have at least 59 HP, it would take something like 6 days for his HP maximum to be drained, how did he died?
Not only that, but the disease is not incurable (Not RAW at least). If you homebrewed the Slaad to have an incurable disease and for it to affect current HP rather than maximum HP, you made the Slaad waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder than it actually is. Then, yeah, it's a tough fight, but that's a homebrew monster not a Blue Slaad anymore.
Ps: Just editing to avoid any misunderstandings, I am not saying that homebrewing a monster that way is wrong, it's your table and you know what is fun for you and your group.
My whole point is: If you homebrew a monster, you can't give advice for other people based on that. E.g: If I give a Goblin a wand of fireballs and have it tossing fireballs from total cover on a 4th level party, I could TPK them, but I can't go telling people: Beware of goblins, a single one TPKed my whole 4th level party. You know what I mean?
I think it's also worth noting that slaads are not evil, nor inherently violent, so a clever group could end an encounter without violence. In 4e, there was a skill challenge that involved communicating with a slaad with potentially comical outcomes if the party couldn't properly decipher their bizarre manners. If I recall correctly, one potential outcome involved the slaad's head detonating, with the remainder of its body wandering off.
I've used them before, I had a bullywug warn them of the nasty infection with no cure, and the idiot barbarian ran ahead and died by the second attack quite oblivious. He didn't get protection from good and evil (the party got an alligator necklace that could cast it 6 times - nope couldn't wait, he's the super barb nothin can kill the super barb) and just got wiped. The whole time he's fighting he hasn't realized why he stopped attacking him and went after the rogue, infecting him as well. For a five party group, only three survived, and that was a single slaad not two. You will at the bare minimum lose two players unless they are a thinking group, they pay attention to warnings and plan accordingly.
"While infected, the target can’t regain hit points, and its hit point maximum is reduced by 10 (3d6) every 24 hours. If the disease reduces the target’s hit point maximum to 0, the target instantly transforms into a red slaad or, if it has the ability to cast spells of 3rd level or higher, a green slaad. Only a wish spell can reverse the transformation."
Considering an average health barb. of lv 6, he should have at least 59 HP, it would take something like 6 days for his HP maximum to be drained, how did he died?
Not only that, but the disease is not incurable (Not RAW at least). If you homebrewed the Slaad to have an incurable disease and for it to affect current HP rather than maximum HP, you made the Slaad waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder than it actually is. Then, yeah, it's a tough fight, but that's a homebrew monster not a Blue Slaad anymore.
Ps: Just editing to avoid any misunderstandings, I am not saying that homebrewing a monster that way is wrong, it's your table and you know what is fun for you and your group.
My whole point is: If you homebrew a monster, you can't give advice for other people based on that. E.g: If I give a Goblin a wand of fireballs and have it tossing fireballs from total cover on a 4th level party, I could TPK them, but I can't go telling people: Beware of goblins, a single one TPKed my whole 4th level party. You know what I mean?
Yeah you can adjust it, but I do leave insta-kill type mobs in the game for a reason. Namely, 5E the liklihood of you dying is extremely low. Players make horrible plays all the time out of overconfidence and it leads to boring play. Generally one session out of four, I up the difficulty so death is on the line for a player and rarely in a campaign 50/50 chance of a TPK. It fixes a lot of player laze faire attitude and they focus on the game a lot more.
Hi all,
My players are Level 6 and they are entering a dungeon to which they find a cult that worships an amphibian god.
The big fight at the end will result in them fighting slaad tadpoles and 2 blue slaads. Just wondering though, is this overkill or should I only put 1 blue slaad in or a green and blue slaad? Just thinking is this too much for L6?
Thanks
Jim
One blue slaad is enough. Honestly 2 blue slaads is way to much, if you really wanted to make it hard you could do 1 green slaad and 2 slaad tadpoles.
PS. Dnd beyond's encounter builder is a helpful tool that I'de reccomend using (though remember to ignore the multiplyer for multiple monsters here since there CR is way to far apart).
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Two Blue Slaad would be a very difficult fight for a level 6 party, one Slaad could potentially down a party member in one round if the dice go their way. Two Red Slaad or one Green Slaad might be more appropriate for their level.
Red and Blue Slaad don't have any ranged attacks, so be aware that if one of your party knows Fly, you won't be able to damage them if they use it.
My general rule of thumb is that total CR equal to half the party's total levels will be a formidable challenge (this will be well over Deadly by the encounter builder, but in general Deadly should be thought of as a floor for interesting encounters, not a ceiling).
I would go with red slaad because they are an appropriate level and create the tad poles, meaning it makes more sense. It also really depends how you intend the encounter to go and if anything else is going on. A red slaad with 2-3 tad poles is a deadly encounter but realistically the slaad will be focus fired and taken down quickly if it is just one powerful slaad with trivial minions. So I wouldn't worry too much about the tad poles unless there is going to be enough to be more than a trivial threat to the party on their own they'll likely be ignored.
Other suggestions
Blessed Tank slaad
If you want a battle where only the slaad matters, it's defensive abilities are important so consider armor or a defensive buff on it. a good buff could be the shadow of moil it is like invisibility but doesn't actually hide the creature and gives the a damage aura. That won't actually increase the slaad's offence very much but defensively it adds allot, combine that with an occasional tad pole spawn and that could make your players freak.
other suggestions
the spawning pool
You could probably pull off something like a pool of tad poles where 1d4 jump out at people at people every round or something if they are in a certain range of the pool. That could be a fun balancing and on the fly balancing mechanic. If you find that your encounter is too easy you can just have another red slaad climb out of the pool to stretch it's legs for the first time (possible still with it's tail or with reduced health). If it's too hard you spawn less tad poles and the players will never know
Infected cultists
You could do something similar but more horrific with people infected with slaad diseases. You could throw in some cultist or cult fanatic and when they die they spawn tad poles. They might be more capable of being a threat and distracting from the main red slaad. Shadow of moil as a cloak of flies is a fun effect and will make the slaad quite defensively powerful without risk of it going out of control with high damage.
Environmental effects
An environment that favors that slaad could be nice too like an area covered in slime that acts like grease for all but the slaad or maybe a foul stench that applies disadvantage.
Anti cheese
If you are worried about flying just add a roof and, or give the slaad a climb speed like a tree frog.
Thank you so much for all your input. Lots of info to pull from
Tbh, it really depends. How many players do you have?
My lv 6 party would steamroll 2 Blue Slaads. It depends on how optimized for combat the characters are as well, but I had a party of 4 lv 3 characters take a Red Slaad after fighting stuff, and it was not that difficult.
If you have six level 6 players in your party it will be a Hard Encounter. If you got players who built their characters well, 5 could handle it easy, 4 could take them but it would be difficult. What you are missing is that Blue Slaads can and will effectively kill at least one or two players by saving throw. Throw some hints about how they can kill you if you get infected and its unlikely you can do anything. If they have a Paladin or Warforged tank and they can maintain agro, then its probably ok. But your players will have to make at least two DC 15 saving throws or die in 24 hours and only a Wish can save them. They are not going to have access to Wish at level 6. So think this one through.
Again, make sure that they know the beast can kill by infecting them with a growth. When playing the Blue Slaad, he will focus on one player, most likely the highest hit points who can take the claw attacks. The minute the Blue Slaad has impregnated the player, have him grimace and then ignore the player and go after the next player. He will NOT kill an infected player, that will prevent their reproduction. Most likely his bite attack will be used on nearby players interfering with its reproduction.
I've used them before, I have a bullywug warn them of the nasty infection with no cure, and the idiot barbarian ran ahead and died by the second attack quite oblivious. He didn't get protection from good and evil (the party got an alligator necklace that could cast it 6 times - nope couldn't wait, he's the super barb nothin can kill the super barb) and just got wiped. The whole time he's fighting he hasn't realized why he stopped attacking him and went after the rogue, infecting him as well. For a five party group, only three survived, and that was a single slaad not two. You will at the bare minimum lose two players unless they are a thinking group, they pay attention to warnings and plan accordingly.
This is really helpful thank you. They are all experience players and I was thinking about dropping hints along the way.
In regards to fighting against it, I was under the impression that Lesser Restoration would cure the disaster before the transformation (before the player reaches 0HP). As it doesn’t state it can’t cure it.
Lesser restoration will cure it, if they think to cast it; they should not immediately realize that they have a disease.
They will realize, they can't regain HP and failed a CON save prior. And in no point in the text it specifies that it is a silent disease.
It's not like someone can have a disease that has actual effects and don't realize it, would require some big DM x Player behavior to just go: "Ha ha next day you die".
Honestly, unless the DM pull something like this, is very unlikely that the character would die - in order for the creature to transform their HP maximum needs to be reduced to 0, it's not their current HP.
I think it's an interesting feature that put a timer on the players and add some pressure, but, aside from this, it would require some extreme situations to it to actually be deadly. (E.g: The party don't have a Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Divine Soul Sorc.... etc and it's on the middle of nowhere). Because, remember, the effects take place 24 hours after the infection, meaning that, the characters can take an 8 hour long rest before the effect takes place. Even if the characters HP maximum is on range for the reduction (Which is almost impossible for 6th lv characters), he would not die until the same time next day, so characters could get back their spells/feature and cure the disease before the 24 hour mark.
Even if the character infected is the healer, as long as he is not at 0, taking a long rest would still recover his spells slots/lay on hands.
"While infected, the target can’t regain hit points, and its hit point maximum is reduced by 10 (3d6) every 24 hours. If the disease reduces the target’s hit point maximum to 0, the target instantly transforms into a red slaad or, if it has the ability to cast spells of 3rd level or higher, a green slaad. Only a wish spell can reverse the transformation."
Considering an average health barb. of lv 6, he should have at least 59 HP, it would take something like 6 days for his HP maximum to be drained, how did he died?
Not only that, but the disease is not incurable (Not RAW at least). If you homebrewed the Slaad to have an incurable disease and for it to affect current HP rather than maximum HP, you made the Slaad waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder than it actually is. Then, yeah, it's a tough fight, but that's a homebrew monster not a Blue Slaad anymore.
Ps: Just editing to avoid any misunderstandings, I am not saying that homebrewing a monster that way is wrong, it's your table and you know what is fun for you and your group.
My whole point is: If you homebrew a monster, you can't give advice for other people based on that. E.g: If I give a Goblin a wand of fireballs and have it tossing fireballs from total cover on a 4th level party, I could TPK them, but I can't go telling people: Beware of goblins, a single one TPKed my whole 4th level party. You know what I mean?
I think it's also worth noting that slaads are not evil, nor inherently violent, so a clever group could end an encounter without violence. In 4e, there was a skill challenge that involved communicating with a slaad with potentially comical outcomes if the party couldn't properly decipher their bizarre manners. If I recall correctly, one potential outcome involved the slaad's head detonating, with the remainder of its body wandering off.
Yeah you can adjust it, but I do leave insta-kill type mobs in the game for a reason. Namely, 5E the liklihood of you dying is extremely low. Players make horrible plays all the time out of overconfidence and it leads to boring play. Generally one session out of four, I up the difficulty so death is on the line for a player and rarely in a campaign 50/50 chance of a TPK. It fixes a lot of player laze faire attitude and they focus on the game a lot more.