Am I missing something oblivious power wise if I allow multiclass characters to combine their levels to gain Extra attack at Character level level 5, or 6. Whatever comes last depending on selection. It just seems a shame to have to take 5 levels of a class up front if you want to take that second class earlier.
Well, first and foremost, as the DM, you are the one doing the balancing. If you and your group are comfortable around something that is enough for it to be ok, and no amount of people on the internet can tell you otherwise.
That said, in 5e, classes are pretty frontloaded. If you add Extra Attack on something like a Barbarian 3/Fighter 2, it's going to be substantially stronger than a straight up mono-class Fighter or Barbarian.
A Multiclass Barb./Fighter would have the following features: Rage, Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attack, Danger Sense, Primal Path Feature, Fighting Style, Second Wind and Action Surge.
A straight up fighter would have: Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge, Martial Archetype Feature and Ability Score Improvement.
I could do the calculations, but it should be clear who is the strongest if both have access to Extra Attack at lv5, right? The Multiclass will have 3 extra features, and not any weak features, but the same defining features of the other. If that character takes an optimized route, the damage it does can be pretty high.
Once again, if you are willing to do the balancing and everyone in your table is comfortable, go for it. But if you are worried of having big imbalances in terms of strength between characters (Specially if you have two melee characters on the table) that can be a problem.
Having to wait longer to get certain abilities is precisely how multiclassing is balanced. The tradeoff for versatility is sacrificing power in one particular discipline.
The argument for giving the player the Extra Attack at character level 5 rather than class level 5 can easily be extended (and abused) to include other things that completely throw inter-party balance out the window. For example, if it's "a shame" to make a fighter wait for Extra Attack, isn't it also a shame to make a wizard wait for access to Fireball? Or a bard access to Font of Inspiration? Or a rogue access to Uncanny Dodge? And what about ASIs? Everyone else will be getting one when they hit level 4 in their chosen class, so will you also grant an ASI to the multiclassed character even though they haven't hit that boon yet?
Giving the multiclassed character abilities he hasn't technically earned may sound like you're being nice to the player in question, but what you're actually doing is penalizing the rest of the party for not multiclassing. Everyone else will be stuck with fewer abilities while one player gets to have his cake and eat it too. Unless you plan to hand out commensurate power-ups to the other players, this just seems like a scenario that can easily breed bitterness and make it harder for the other characters to shine in combat.
What would trigger access to it, a 1-level dip? Would a rogue 4/fighter 1 get it, and keep it all the way through rogue 19/fighter 1? At that point, a lot, lot of classes would benefit even more than they already do from that 1-level dip into fighter/barb/pally. A rogue in particular would be kind of crazy not to take it.
And then what happens when you get to level 11 overall. Do you let someone with any amount of fighter get the third attack? At that point, a 2-level fighter dip would be almost required. A pally9/fighter2, getting three attacks and an action surge with smites could just about melt any enemy.
As others have said, multi-classing is about trade offs. You give up that extra attack at level 5, and you get other tricks in exchange.
Thanks all, Answered my question. I didn't really think about the front loaded abilities from 1-3. I was looking at the multi-attack alone not the 2 classes as a whole
To clarify I was not thinking of anything quite so extreme. I was more looking at the fighter/ barbs out there, or fight/ sword bard. Both classes would need to have the second attack option. and would get it at the later levels if applicable so 6 for the fight/ sword bard. But I agree that you the other class options need to be considered. My major thought is that casters can combine their levels when scaling cantrips. so I was thinking of ways to help close the gap a bit on the whole caster vs. melee thing.
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Am I missing something oblivious power wise if I allow multiclass characters to combine their levels to gain Extra attack at Character level level 5, or 6. Whatever comes last depending on selection. It just seems a shame to have to take 5 levels of a class up front if you want to take that second class earlier.
Thanks all.
It is a sign of their training in one particular warfare philosophy, so Extra Attack from different philosophies can't be used together?
If WOTC thought it was a good idea to merge levels, then they would have made that suggestion in the multiclass rules.
Well, first and foremost, as the DM, you are the one doing the balancing. If you and your group are comfortable around something that is enough for it to be ok, and no amount of people on the internet can tell you otherwise.
That said, in 5e, classes are pretty frontloaded. If you add Extra Attack on something like a Barbarian 3/Fighter 2, it's going to be substantially stronger than a straight up mono-class Fighter or Barbarian.
A Multiclass Barb./Fighter would have the following features: Rage, Unarmored Defense, Reckless Attack, Danger Sense, Primal Path Feature, Fighting Style, Second Wind and Action Surge.
A straight up fighter would have: Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge, Martial Archetype Feature and Ability Score Improvement.
I could do the calculations, but it should be clear who is the strongest if both have access to Extra Attack at lv5, right? The Multiclass will have 3 extra features, and not any weak features, but the same defining features of the other. If that character takes an optimized route, the damage it does can be pretty high.
Once again, if you are willing to do the balancing and everyone in your table is comfortable, go for it. But if you are worried of having big imbalances in terms of strength between characters (Specially if you have two melee characters on the table) that can be a problem.
Having to wait longer to get certain abilities is precisely how multiclassing is balanced. The tradeoff for versatility is sacrificing power in one particular discipline.
The argument for giving the player the Extra Attack at character level 5 rather than class level 5 can easily be extended (and abused) to include other things that completely throw inter-party balance out the window. For example, if it's "a shame" to make a fighter wait for Extra Attack, isn't it also a shame to make a wizard wait for access to Fireball? Or a bard access to Font of Inspiration? Or a rogue access to Uncanny Dodge? And what about ASIs? Everyone else will be getting one when they hit level 4 in their chosen class, so will you also grant an ASI to the multiclassed character even though they haven't hit that boon yet?
Giving the multiclassed character abilities he hasn't technically earned may sound like you're being nice to the player in question, but what you're actually doing is penalizing the rest of the party for not multiclassing. Everyone else will be stuck with fewer abilities while one player gets to have his cake and eat it too. Unless you plan to hand out commensurate power-ups to the other players, this just seems like a scenario that can easily breed bitterness and make it harder for the other characters to shine in combat.
What would trigger access to it, a 1-level dip? Would a rogue 4/fighter 1 get it, and keep it all the way through rogue 19/fighter 1? At that point, a lot, lot of classes would benefit even more than they already do from that 1-level dip into fighter/barb/pally. A rogue in particular would be kind of crazy not to take it.
And then what happens when you get to level 11 overall. Do you let someone with any amount of fighter get the third attack? At that point, a 2-level fighter dip would be almost required. A pally9/fighter2, getting three attacks and an action surge with smites could just about melt any enemy.
As others have said, multi-classing is about trade offs. You give up that extra attack at level 5, and you get other tricks in exchange.
Thanks all, Answered my question. I didn't really think about the front loaded abilities from 1-3. I was looking at the multi-attack alone not the 2 classes as a whole
If you go by character level rather than class level for class abilities some folk would be tempted to multi-class into 5 classes.
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To clarify I was not thinking of anything quite so extreme. I was more looking at the fighter/ barbs out there, or fight/ sword bard. Both classes would need to have the second attack option. and would get it at the later levels if applicable so 6 for the fight/ sword bard. But I agree that you the other class options need to be considered. My major thought is that casters can combine their levels when scaling cantrips. so I was thinking of ways to help close the gap a bit on the whole caster vs. melee thing.