3 signifigantly resource drained level 2's against a swarm of Gremishkas (from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft).
I dont wanna kill any players (this is just one of the baddies strongest group of pets in their abandoned base and the characters will actually fight the owner (a hag) herself after a level and a bit ), but I want my players scared.
This registers as a hard encounter on the encounter builder, but in practice, is it way too easy? Is this too hard?
If either of these answers are yes, then how can I change or add to it?
Thanks for reading :) Any help is appreciated.
Edit: Party is a monk, a barbarian, and a druid.
Edit: Each party member will be about slightly lower than half HP.
Edit: I had a typo and said it was level 3, they're level 2, the hard encounter but was accurate and people seemed to go off that though, sorry about the mistake though.
Cr and the various encounter builders often underestimate the players.
Some of it has to do with specialization. If you are a Cleric focused on fighting undead, then you will run through undead like they are much weaker than they are.
If you are a melee based fighter trying to fight a vampire that literally cannot be killed without sunlight, during the night, well, good luck.
The limited spell immunity of the swarm will be a problem if you have a party of all casters. To solve that I would probably run the normal Gremishka maybe 2 or 3 so if the players are smart enough or lucky enough they may not have to deal with that nasty Swarm of Gremishkas
Any encounter that doesn't show up as Deadly in the encounter tool is generally an easy bop for the players if they're at full power, but if they're empty of resources, they can work. "Hard" encounters are generally very easy. But this creature creates a VERY swingy encounter that could either be a bop, or they could be doomed from the first attack of the combat.
This creature is way more powerful than its challenge rating suggests. It hits for 19 damage, and effectively has 48 hit points, plus the spell redirection is like giving it an additional attack for 5 damage. CR2, it is not.
Just how resource drained are the PCs going to be? If they all start on 3 hit points then yeah, you'll likely take them down, but assuming they're on max hit points, even if they have no resources left aside from basic attacks and cantrips, and assuming a +2 Con bonus on average then: d6 class: 19 hit points, estimated AC12 d8 class: 23 hit points, estimated AC15 d10 class: 27 hit points, estimated AC18 d12 class: 31 hit points, estimated AC14
If it's just one swarm of gremishkas then let's look at what your characters are going to have to go through:
The Swarm has a single +4 attack, meaning that against most party members it will need to score between an 8 and a 14 to hit. So on average let's say it has a 50% chance of dealing 19 damage, provided it hasn't suffered 12 hit points of damage. After it does, it will deal 12 damage on a hit. This is enough to take out the d6 character in one hit, and the other party members can take 1 hit before they go down.
The high damage but weak hit modifier makes this very swingy. It's possible that the Swarm hits and downs a character in its first attack, even the higher hp ones can go down on a nat 20. Or, if you roll poorly to hit 3 times, it will die without doing a single point of damage. Because the party is small in number, losing a single party member on turn one dooms the party.
24 hit points with resistance to B/P/S is quite weird because of the swarm loses a lot of damage if it loses 12hp. So if it's hit with 2 cantrips before it gets to attack, it's basically over for the Swarm as it no longer has the damage output, and the cantrips will likely finish it in 1-2 further turns. If the party are all spellcasters, it stands little chance because that low AC means spell redirection isn't that likely. However, if you have all melee then it basically has 48 hit points, and assuming an average damage output of one +5 to hit attack per turn, dealing 7 (1d8+3) damage, it will usually take 2 hits, suffering 14 damage per turn, reduced to 6. This is likely an unwinnable fight at this point: the three melee characters need 4 turns to knock it down to half hit points, but by that time you'll have eaten one of them.
So overall, unless they have a bunch of spells handy I wouldn't fancy the party's chances. Physical weapons will be dealing just 3 damage per turn if they hit, which at level 3 isn't guaranteed, but a single scorching ray that hits twice halves its hp in one turn and then the fight is a doddle.
Personally I think this is too taxing for a small, depleted level 3 party. When you're only level 3, you run out of resources quickly and then what can you do except auto-attack?
I'd change this out for a monster that doesn't have crazy damage resistance.
If they are at low health and resources well it will turn into a deadly encounter really quickly if their not careful, If a character gets downed in the first round then that definitely is a difficult encounter. Specially since the swarm of gremishkas has resistance to bludgeoning slashing and piercing damage, this can instantly turn into a tpk if the players have no trump card to back them up or at least magical weapons.
Isn't it the (Limited Spell Immunity. The swarm automatically succeeds on saving throws against spells of 3rd level or lower, and the attack rolls of such spells always miss it.) and (Spell Redirection. In response to a spell attack roll missing the swarm, the swarm causes that spell to hit another creature of its choice within 30 feet of it that it can see.) which make them particularly dangerous?... which in this case would only apply to the druid in this group I certainly wouldn't suggest using a scorching ray on them
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Yeah, the swarm is meant to be like a punishment for trying to kill the normal version with magic. Think of gremishka's as like low level anti wizard traps. They have a 1/3 chance to go hulk when some one casts a spell near them.
3 signifigantly resource drained level 2's against a swarm of Gremishkas (from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft).
I dont wanna kill any players (this is just one of the baddies strongest group of pets in their abandoned base and the characters will actually fight the owner (a hag) herself after a level and a bit ), but I want my players scared.
This registers as a hard encounter on the encounter builder, but in practice, is it way too easy? Is this too hard?
If either of these answers are yes, then how can I change or add to it?
Thanks for reading :) Any help is appreciated.
Edit: Party is a monk, a barbarian, and a druid.
Edit: Each party member will be about slightly lower than half HP.
Edit: I had a typo and said it was level 3, they're level 2, the hard encounter but was accurate and people seemed to go off that though, sorry about the mistake though.
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HERE.Cr and the various encounter builders often underestimate the players.
Some of it has to do with specialization. If you are a Cleric focused on fighting undead, then you will run through undead like they are much weaker than they are.
If you are a melee based fighter trying to fight a vampire that literally cannot be killed without sunlight, during the night, well, good luck.
what is the party composition?
The limited spell immunity of the swarm will be a problem if you have a party of all casters. To solve that I would probably run the normal Gremishka maybe 2 or 3 so if the players are smart enough or lucky enough they may not have to deal with that nasty Swarm of Gremishkas
Any encounter that doesn't show up as Deadly in the encounter tool is generally an easy bop for the players if they're at full power, but if they're empty of resources, they can work. "Hard" encounters are generally very easy. But this creature creates a VERY swingy encounter that could either be a bop, or they could be doomed from the first attack of the combat.
This creature is way more powerful than its challenge rating suggests. It hits for 19 damage, and effectively has 48 hit points, plus the spell redirection is like giving it an additional attack for 5 damage. CR2, it is not.
Just how resource drained are the PCs going to be? If they all start on 3 hit points then yeah, you'll likely take them down, but assuming they're on max hit points, even if they have no resources left aside from basic attacks and cantrips, and assuming a +2 Con bonus on average then:
d6 class: 19 hit points, estimated AC12
d8 class: 23 hit points, estimated AC15
d10 class: 27 hit points, estimated AC18
d12 class: 31 hit points, estimated AC14
If it's just one swarm of gremishkas then let's look at what your characters are going to have to go through:
The Swarm has a single +4 attack, meaning that against most party members it will need to score between an 8 and a 14 to hit. So on average let's say it has a 50% chance of dealing 19 damage, provided it hasn't suffered 12 hit points of damage. After it does, it will deal 12 damage on a hit. This is enough to take out the d6 character in one hit, and the other party members can take 1 hit before they go down.
The high damage but weak hit modifier makes this very swingy. It's possible that the Swarm hits and downs a character in its first attack, even the higher hp ones can go down on a nat 20. Or, if you roll poorly to hit 3 times, it will die without doing a single point of damage. Because the party is small in number, losing a single party member on turn one dooms the party.
24 hit points with resistance to B/P/S is quite weird because of the swarm loses a lot of damage if it loses 12hp. So if it's hit with 2 cantrips before it gets to attack, it's basically over for the Swarm as it no longer has the damage output, and the cantrips will likely finish it in 1-2 further turns. If the party are all spellcasters, it stands little chance because that low AC means spell redirection isn't that likely. However, if you have all melee then it basically has 48 hit points, and assuming an average damage output of one +5 to hit attack per turn, dealing 7 (1d8+3) damage, it will usually take 2 hits, suffering 14 damage per turn, reduced to 6. This is likely an unwinnable fight at this point: the three melee characters need 4 turns to knock it down to half hit points, but by that time you'll have eaten one of them.
So overall, unless they have a bunch of spells handy I wouldn't fancy the party's chances. Physical weapons will be dealing just 3 damage per turn if they hit, which at level 3 isn't guaranteed, but a single scorching ray that hits twice halves its hp in one turn and then the fight is a doddle.
Personally I think this is too taxing for a small, depleted level 3 party. When you're only level 3, you run out of resources quickly and then what can you do except auto-attack?
I'd change this out for a monster that doesn't have crazy damage resistance.
If they are at low health and resources well it will turn into a deadly encounter really quickly if their not careful, If a character gets downed in the first round then that definitely is a difficult encounter. Specially since the swarm of gremishkas has resistance to bludgeoning slashing and piercing damage, this can instantly turn into a tpk if the players have no trump card to back them up or at least magical weapons.
Isn't it the
(Limited Spell Immunity. The swarm automatically succeeds on saving throws against spells of 3rd level or lower, and the attack rolls of such spells always miss it.)
and
(Spell Redirection. In response to a spell attack roll missing the swarm, the swarm causes that spell to hit another creature of its choice within 30 feet of it that it can see.)
which make them particularly dangerous?...
which in this case would only apply to the druid in this group
I certainly wouldn't suggest using a scorching ray on them
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Yeah, the swarm is meant to be like a punishment for trying to kill the normal version with magic. Think of gremishka's as like low level anti wizard traps. They have a 1/3 chance to go hulk when some one casts a spell near them.