I'm going to be starting (DMing) a 5th ed campaign soon. From skimming a few of the published "modules" (books rather), it seems like there are fewer magic items around. IE in 2nd edition (yes, long ago), there were a lot of +1 swords or daggers to be obtained (under shrubs, in a farmer's pantry etc) , whereas in some of these modules, there are few potions and perhaps 1-2 magic items.
While every GM has a different style with regards to magic item allocation (high magic world vs low magic world etc), I'm curious as to whether the lack of many items in these modules is due to balance considerations. Being new to 5th edition, do magic items (even a few) begin to quickly unbalance encounters? Along a similar line, it looks like early gold/gems are greatly reduced as well. Is this also primarily due to balance considerations?
Thanks!
K
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Hi there Koradgee and welcome to D&D Beyond (and 5th edition D&D),
yes, you are correct - 5th edition is designed differently to previous editions with regards magic items.
All of the calculations on Challenge Ratings assume the player characters have no magic items, even at high levels.
Magic items give the characters an advantage above and beyond the standard.
Money also is reduced a fair chunk - one of the most noticeable things is as a fighter/paladin/cleric, wanting to get a set of full plate armor - it costs 1500 gp. This is a balance thing. The 18 Armor Class granted by that armor is a lot more valuable in 5th edition, due to the lack of ability to stack bonuses so much compared to previous editions. I can't remember the source, but I recall one of the designers saying that they would expect a character to get plate armor around level 5 to 7.
The rules are flexible though, so play how you and your group find fun. If players and DM want to have more magical items, then go for it, but be aware you may just need to add a few stats to the bad guys to keep some challenge. :)
Being new to 5th edition, do magic items (even a few) begin to quickly unbalance encounters?
They can. Especially items that grant a permanent bonus. That +1 was pretty basic back in prior editions. In 5e a +1 that's always on creates significant impact on a character's power. I find it's better to give out items that have limits on how often they can use. Instead of a +1 shield I've given out one that gave out a single extra Channel Divinity to an attuned character per Long Rest.
While that is pretty significant in itself, it's not going to impact every single attack they receive like a +1 would. Instead it gives the right character (one that has powers fueled by Channel Divinity) an interesting extra choice to sort out. They get to decide when they really need it and commit to that choice.
Another good trick is to create magic items that emulate a feat, a few times each day or week. Like a magic Greatsword that gives a fighter the equivalent of the Great Weapons Master feat 3 times per week. That's a cool weapon, useful power, and isn't present on every attack!
Being new to 5th edition, do magic items (even a few) begin to quickly unbalance encounters?
It depends on exactly how tight you are expecting balance of encounters to be. I've had great success with 5th edition handing out magic items just like I would in 2nd edition (but handing out the modern versions rather than the AD&D style items - for example, a old school adventure I was running included a sword that was +1, +3 vs. undead in AD&D. What the 5th edition party found in its place was a +1 sword that would glow if undead were within 100 feet, as 5th edition doesn't really do the extra plus against specific enemy thing and trends to lower modifiers).
The items that have a really big impact require attunement, and the game limits each character to only having 3 of those active at a time, which is all it takes to keep enough balance for me to be satisfied - my expectation of encounter balance being that each encounter when viewed individually is only intended to cause expenditure of limited resources and recoverable loss of hit points. If you are looking for each encounter to have a very tight balance (like encounters were designed to have in 4th edition), magic items will likely upset your sense of balance if included at all without some form of counter-measure effectively negating them (such as raising all monster ACs by 1 at about the same time you give the party access to +1 weapons, making the game-play feel as though the items aren't actually changing anything).
Along a similar line, it looks like early gold/gems are greatly reduced as well. Is this also primarily due to balance considerations?
No. In the long run of things, treasure pay outs are similar enough to older editions - and might actually feel even more generous to the players because the costs of many things they'll be buying are reduced, and they aren't expected to be paying out large sums of gold to keep buying relevant potency of magical gear to replace what they've already got - so many folks have actually felt like their character ends up with more money than they could ever spend (I presume because their campaign doesn't make large purchases like land, buildings, or sea vessels make sense for their characters).
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
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Good day everyone,
I'm going to be starting (DMing) a 5th ed campaign soon. From skimming a few of the published "modules" (books rather), it seems like there are fewer magic items around. IE in 2nd edition (yes, long ago), there were a lot of +1 swords or daggers to be obtained (under shrubs, in a farmer's pantry etc) , whereas in some of these modules, there are few potions and perhaps 1-2 magic items.
While every GM has a different style with regards to magic item allocation (high magic world vs low magic world etc), I'm curious as to whether the lack of many items in these modules is due to balance considerations. Being new to 5th edition, do magic items (even a few) begin to quickly unbalance encounters? Along a similar line, it looks like early gold/gems are greatly reduced as well. Is this also primarily due to balance considerations?
Thanks!
K
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
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D&D Beyond FoundersHi there Koradgee and welcome to D&D Beyond (and 5th edition D&D),
yes, you are correct - 5th edition is designed differently to previous editions with regards magic items.
All of the calculations on Challenge Ratings assume the player characters have no magic items, even at high levels.
Magic items give the characters an advantage above and beyond the standard.
Money also is reduced a fair chunk - one of the most noticeable things is as a fighter/paladin/cleric, wanting to get a set of full plate armor - it costs 1500 gp. This is a balance thing. The 18 Armor Class granted by that armor is a lot more valuable in 5th edition, due to the lack of ability to stack bonuses so much compared to previous editions. I can't remember the source, but I recall one of the designers saying that they would expect a character to get plate armor around level 5 to 7.
The rules are flexible though, so play how you and your group find fun. If players and DM want to have more magical items, then go for it, but be aware you may just need to add a few stats to the bad guys to keep some challenge. :)
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They can. Especially items that grant a permanent bonus. That +1 was pretty basic back in prior editions. In 5e a +1 that's always on creates significant impact on a character's power. I find it's better to give out items that have limits on how often they can use. Instead of a +1 shield I've given out one that gave out a single extra Channel Divinity to an attuned character per Long Rest.
While that is pretty significant in itself, it's not going to impact every single attack they receive like a +1 would. Instead it gives the right character (one that has powers fueled by Channel Divinity) an interesting extra choice to sort out. They get to decide when they really need it and commit to that choice.
Another good trick is to create magic items that emulate a feat, a few times each day or week. Like a magic Greatsword that gives a fighter the equivalent of the Great Weapons Master feat 3 times per week. That's a cool weapon, useful power, and isn't present on every attack!
It depends on exactly how tight you are expecting balance of encounters to be. I've had great success with 5th edition handing out magic items just like I would in 2nd edition (but handing out the modern versions rather than the AD&D style items - for example, a old school adventure I was running included a sword that was +1, +3 vs. undead in AD&D. What the 5th edition party found in its place was a +1 sword that would glow if undead were within 100 feet, as 5th edition doesn't really do the extra plus against specific enemy thing and trends to lower modifiers).
The items that have a really big impact require attunement, and the game limits each character to only having 3 of those active at a time, which is all it takes to keep enough balance for me to be satisfied - my expectation of encounter balance being that each encounter when viewed individually is only intended to cause expenditure of limited resources and recoverable loss of hit points. If you are looking for each encounter to have a very tight balance (like encounters were designed to have in 4th edition), magic items will likely upset your sense of balance if included at all without some form of counter-measure effectively negating them (such as raising all monster ACs by 1 at about the same time you give the party access to +1 weapons, making the game-play feel as though the items aren't actually changing anything).
No. In the long run of things, treasure pay outs are similar enough to older editions - and might actually feel even more generous to the players because the costs of many things they'll be buying are reduced, and they aren't expected to be paying out large sums of gold to keep buying relevant potency of magical gear to replace what they've already got - so many folks have actually felt like their character ends up with more money than they could ever spend (I presume because their campaign doesn't make large purchases like land, buildings, or sea vessels make sense for their characters).Thanks for the replies everyone.
That makes a lot of sense and definitely helps.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"