Most players who have been in the game for more than a handful of sessions know Rule #1: Don't split up. They've seen what happens when it happens. At best, the DM's attention is split and some party members get to make a sandwich while the other group does things. Most players that I know understand this rule and the consequences of breaking it because they've DM'd before.
But then there's Reggie (real name altered to protect the innocent). Reggie is an experienced D&D player but he's running a Rogue for the first time. He likes doing all the usual Roguish stuff like stealing when he shouldn't and most of the time it's a lot of fun (you roll 1 ONE TIME for a Sleight of Hand check...!). The issue is in combat, particularly in the open or in buildings where there are multiple ways to get around. He'll hang back and when the bad guys show up or when the party sees an enemy without being spotted, he does the big fade. If combat hasn't started yet, he'll ask that they give him 30 seconds to get into position. If the fight has started, he'll move heaven, earth, and furniture to find a good spot to attack from. He almost refuses to take an enemy on from the front, leaning heavily into the idea of the Backstab Sneak Attack.
Part of the issue is that it's fun and colorful when he does this. He doesn't sneak off when the party is in a cave or tunnel network because he might get lost. He has no issue with the fact that both the Fighter and the Barb do more damage than him or that he has no spells. The problem is when it takes time away from the party...the WHOLE party. I'm not as opposed to splitting the party as some as long as it's a roughly even split because at least half the party is doing something. However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs.
He's a good RPer, lets the rest of the party have their moments to shine, especially in combat, and generally a good player. But whenever the party is trying to set up for a fight, they roll their eyes at the inevitable 'I'm going to try and circle around.'
How do I balance the party with the lone player? It's certainly not the most egregious behavior I've seen but the rest of the party is starting to grumble to me in private. How do I encourage the flavorful play without letting Reggie turn into a one-trick pony.
How do I balance the party with the lone player? It's certainly not the most egregious behavior I've seen but the rest of the party is starting to grumble to me in private. How do I encourage the flavorful play without letting Reggie turn into a one-trick pony.
If the party is willing to grumble to you, maybe organize a chat at the top of the next session to discuss this as a group? Just put the cards on the table and say "hey, how do we make this work for all of you?" If he really feels underpowered in combat becuase he isn't taking 5 turns to set up a perfect shot, then there are other issues there to discuss. Just to look at that alone:
A) Rogues get their "Sneak attack" at any angle so long as the enemy is threatened by a friendly PC. So you don't need to be "behind" a monster; you just need it distracted. That means that the rogue should be on par for damage output with that sneak attack every turn.
B) Rogues also get the bonus of "Bonus action to disengage, dodge or dash". This means that when a fight starts he should be able to either pop a disengage or a dash to get into a good position right out of the gate. He can also use a bonus action to activate "hide" which would then let him attack with advantage on his next attack and apply bonus damage even if not behind the enemy.
I've had rogues use the "bonus action to hide" really effectively to step around a wall, hide, then slink back into position and take an advantage shot.
And while it's cool to "fade into the shadow at the start of combat" you don't have to make it be 2-5 rounds of maneuvering. It can literally be done in one or two rounds.
The last option I would see for you is to talk to the player and then handwave the "into position" time. He wants 30 seconds to get to a certain spot for the ambush? Cool. Roll your stealth, if you miss, I put you somewhere on the "best" path between A and B and that's where you're spotted. On we go. If he makes the check, boom, he's there. Done. no need to spend 30 minutes on it.
1) When the rogue tries to loop around, wouldn't intelligent monsters account for that? All you need is one combat where the rogue gets pinned down alone and away from the group, and there is potential for some bad times.
2) The other PC's are okay with absorbing the incoming fire while the rogue scampers safely around? The group I play in uses Roll20 for maps. I can tell you the critters would flank and pick off the soft targets like the wizard or sorcerer if there aren't enough party members holding the line. There are times where being sneaky in combat may work, but if the combat runs 3-4 rounds; is it worth wasting attack actions?
3) What is the goal of doing this, tactically? You can get a Sneak Attack off just having another party member also adjacent to the target. Rogues also have Cunning Action to get away the same turn. One thing I think players need to be aware of is; the enemy attacks are going somewhere. If you are avoiding being the target, someone else is getting the result of that attack roll. Sometimes your rogue *wants* to draw some enemy fire, so the softer targets don't get hit.
Have you tried talking to him privately? This is a player issue, not a character issue, so finding ways to screw the character in-game probably won’t help and is just passive-aggressive.
Tell him one-on-one that the way he’s playing his character is starting to get disruptive, and ask him to tone it down. You might mention that other players (don’t name anyone) are finding the game less fun because of what he’s doing. While it’s just as important that he have fun, he can’t do it at the expense of others.
Maybe suggest that he only start sneaking around before really big fights, instead of doing it every time. Explain that it’s great he likes backstabbing the way he does, and he should be able to, just he needs to be better about picking his moment (and honestly there’s no facing in this edition, so “front” vs “back” has no real meaning). If he really feels like he needs to be moving around flanking people, that’s fine, that’s what a rogue does, but that’s why he has a bonus action disengage. He can do that pretty much freely in the middle of a fight, darting all around, and can flavor it all he wants. Ask him to find ways to enjoy playing the character without accidentally hogging the spotlight.
Most players who have been in the game for more than a handful of sessions know Rule #1: Don't split up. They've seen what happens when it happens. At best, the DM's attention is split and some party members get to make a sandwich while the other group does things. Most players that I know understand this rule and the consequences of breaking it because they've DM'd before.
But then there's Reggie (real name altered to protect the innocent). Reggie is an experienced D&D player but he's running a Rogue for the first time. He likes doing all the usual Roguish stuff like stealing when he shouldn't and most of the time it's a lot of fun (you roll 1 ONE TIME for a Sleight of Hand check...!). The issue is in combat, particularly in the open or in buildings where there are multiple ways to get around. He'll hang back and when the bad guys show up or when the party sees an enemy without being spotted, he does the big fade. If combat hasn't started yet, he'll ask that they give him 30 seconds to get into position. If the fight has started, he'll move heaven, earth, and furniture to find a good spot to attack from. He almost refuses to take an enemy on from the front, leaning heavily into the idea of the Backstab Sneak Attack.
Part of the issue is that it's fun and colorful when he does this. He doesn't sneak off when the party is in a cave or tunnel network because he might get lost. He has no issue with the fact that both the Fighter and the Barb do more damage than him or that he has no spells. The problem is when it takes time away from the party...the WHOLE party. I'm not as opposed to splitting the party as some as long as it's a roughly even split because at least half the party is doing something. However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs.
He's a good RPer, lets the rest of the party have their moments to shine, especially in combat, and generally a good player. But whenever the party is trying to set up for a fight, they roll their eyes at the inevitable 'I'm going to try and circle around.'
How do I balance the party with the lone player? It's certainly not the most egregious behavior I've seen but the rest of the party is starting to grumble to me in private. How do I encourage the flavorful play without letting Reggie turn into a one-trick pony.
A few comments ...
1) One game I run is for a bunch of friends I have been playing AD&D with for decades. They split up all the time if it makes sense in character to do so ... sometimes it works out fine, other times it causes some challenges for the party or the individual characters but the whole "never split the party" mantra isn't actually a method of play that everyone uses if it doesn't make sense for their characters.
2) In combat everyone gets their turn in initiative order - so I don't understand your comment:
"However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs"
If you are in combat, then everyone else is taking their turns in initiative order while this guy goes sneaking off - they should never twiddle their thumbs - they are taking their actions and doing things.
If this is before combat, then roll initiative before they start their approach. There is a chance the rogue or the party will get noticed and start combat as soon as that happens - the party may not even know combat has started until the bad guys attack the rogue they just noticed. Having everything already in initiative makes the transition from set up to fighting very simple and clearly defines the order in which events occur. However, this doesn't have to take much real time at all. Have the rogue roll a stealth check, if they succeed, place them where they want to be and if they fail, have the bad guys attack the rogue first. It only takes 20 seconds to resolve then jump into the fight. There is no reason for the rest of the folks to sit around twiddling their thumbs in a situation that is in combat or about to be a fight.
3) Out of combat is a different issue since the DM needs to spread their attention between the groups of characters that are doing different things. Last night I had three characters go on three separate scouting missions separately at the same time while the remaining two characters waited at the starting point (talk about splitting the party). I cycled through each, resolving a few minutes of activity in each case before going on to the next one in order. I tried to give equal time to each scout and I made sure to check in with every group to see what they were doing. The DM needs to make dealing with each separate situation as efficient as possible. Make them fun but the DM really can't jump into some extended plot/role play situation with a single character leaving the rest of the party doing nothing for 30 minutes while they play with one character (unless the other players are cool with it). It is up to the DM to split their time so that everyone gets attention and if that means the one character running off on their own gets a less detailed or monosyllabic encounter to save time then that might be what happens.
Most players who have been in the game for more than a handful of sessions know Rule #1: Don't split up. They've seen what happens when it happens. At best, the DM's attention is split and some party members get to make a sandwich while the other group does things. Most players that I know understand this rule and the consequences of breaking it because they've DM'd before.
But then there's Reggie (real name altered to protect the innocent). Reggie is an experienced D&D player but he's running a Rogue for the first time. He likes doing all the usual Roguish stuff like stealing when he shouldn't and most of the time it's a lot of fun (you roll 1 ONE TIME for a Sleight of Hand check...!). The issue is in combat, particularly in the open or in buildings where there are multiple ways to get around. He'll hang back and when the bad guys show up or when the party sees an enemy without being spotted, he does the big fade. If combat hasn't started yet, he'll ask that they give him 30 seconds to get into position. If the fight has started, he'll move heaven, earth, and furniture to find a good spot to attack from. He almost refuses to take an enemy on from the front, leaning heavily into the idea of the Backstab Sneak Attack.
Part of the issue is that it's fun and colorful when he does this. He doesn't sneak off when the party is in a cave or tunnel network because he might get lost. He has no issue with the fact that both the Fighter and the Barb do more damage than him or that he has no spells. The problem is when it takes time away from the party...the WHOLE party. I'm not as opposed to splitting the party as some as long as it's a roughly even split because at least half the party is doing something. However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs.
He's a good RPer, lets the rest of the party have their moments to shine, especially in combat, and generally a good player. But whenever the party is trying to set up for a fight, they roll their eyes at the inevitable 'I'm going to try and circle around.'
How do I balance the party with the lone player? It's certainly not the most egregious behavior I've seen but the rest of the party is starting to grumble to me in private. How do I encourage the flavorful play without letting Reggie turn into a one-trick pony.
Why are you having the circling around take so much real-world time? Have him describe what he wants to do, have him roll his Stealth check and perhaps any associated checks, and tell him what happens. Shouldn't take very long.
Why do the player think he needs to circle around to the back to perform a " Backstab Sneak Attack"? As mentioned, rogues don't need to attack from behind to get sneak attack. Is that something you have siad or did Reggie come up with that?
Point 1 - don't use the Flanking rules in 5E they are heavily op.
Point 2 - the rogue gets backstab damage whenever he is attacking somebody that has one of his allies within 5 ft of, so he doesn't need to find the perfect position he can just double-team with another party member.
Point 3 - if he insists on sneaking around to the far side of the camp before the party attack, then fast forward the game to where he is in position.
Point 4 - How does the rogue signal to the party that he is in position on the other side of the party? If he doesn't have any form of silent signal then you can ask the rest of the party when they are going to attack, and don't let the rogue's player have any input into that since his PC isn't present with the rest of the party.
1: Don't do it by turns, because presumably, no-one else is doing much. If he says "give me 30 seconds" then ask him where he's going to and hve him roll a stealth check. The DC for not being spotted is going to be the passive perception of the enemies, and if the distance is more than 30 seconds non-dashing movement then I'd add 5 to it for the fact that he's moving quickly.
if the rogue rolls below the DC for being spotted then they are spotted somewhere along the way
if the rogue rolls higher than the PP of the enemies but lower than the DC because of the distance, I (as DM) would decide whether he is spotted in the movement, or if he simply doesn't make it to his position before the others start their turns.
if they come up with a plan for communicating (EG message or sending stones) then I'd just do the flat stealth roll against enemy passive perception to see if he makes it to position.
For certain, stop spending loads of time on him sneaking into position, especially if he does it every time. Find a quick way to work it out and then move on with everyone involved. Prties making tactics is a good thing, but as you've found, focussing on one person is not so much (at least, when it happens every time).
You have a barbarian? Take them aside and tell them that they have been having reoccurring dreams that their famous ancestor Leroy Jenkins is growing increasingly displeased with them :p
Put traps on obvious routes of attack. Suggest that he makes better use of ranged attacks. Hold action, barbarian attacks, rogue takes attack action on barb's target, then rogue moves and stealths.
You have a barbarian? Take them aside and tell them that they have been having reoccurring dreams that their famous ancestor Leroy Jenkins is growing increasingly displeased with them :p
Should not even need a stealth check. As long as he is staying within reach of the enemy, he isn't triggering opportunity attacks when he circles around to flank. Can't get more advantage than advantage and as others have said, as long as even just one ally is engaged with the enemy, sneak attack works, even without stealth.
Also point out to him all the damage he is not doing while trying to find that 'perfect' position. He is really overthinking things.
He wasn't circling around within reach of the enemy. He was circling around, trying to remain unseen by the enemy, to get into an "advantageous" position before the fight starts.
Believe it or not, I managed to solve the issue through demonstration. I found some footage from a variety of movies where a Rogueish character was dashing about the battlefield, stabbing or slashing, then moving away (the little guy from Conan the Destroyer was one of them). He still likes scouting ahead, but that takes care of itself most of the time.
I've played a Rogue more than any other class. I never steal for the sake of stealing. In fact, I've once played a Lawful Good Rogue with the Investigator background, i.e. law enforcement. I hate the Chaotic Stupid stereotype attributed to Rogues and I've often seen other players do stupid things (harmful to the party) because they have severe trust issues toward Rogues in general.
My worst example was when I played a treasure hunter akin to Indianna Jones. I used my Rogue skills to identify and safely traverse a trapped floor to reach a chest while the rest of the party stayed behind. It was my time to shine. As I was checking the contents of the chest, some idiot player dashed in my direction because he wanted to make sure I wouldn't be hiding some of the loot for myself. The idea had never crossed my mind. Thanks to his recklessness, the floor flipped over and we both fell down a spiked pit. We survived, but not without suffering a lot of damage and forcing the other players to use their resources to save us. As for the chest, most of the loot was lost or destroyed.
It wasn't just the character who was stupid, the player was as well. He later bragged to me that he illegally infiltrated a LARP campaign with some of his friends and pretended to be NPCs, offering scam quests and fake magic items that disrupted the game. He's not just an *******, he's a criminal. What he did was criminal trespassing on private property. Thankfully, I never had to play with him outside of that one shot Epic (multi-table event with over 20 players) that lasted an entire day. But I swear I would refuse to play with him ever again. He's on my blacklist.
Anyway, as a Rogue I like alternating between a rapier and a crossbow depending on the situation. Once, my party once fought a hill giant in a wide open area. Using stealth, I circled the battlefield to hide on top of a hill like a sniper. I didn't have to spend 30 minutes to do it. The DM asked for a Stealth check once and I succeeded. I got to use my Sneak Attack on my first turn after we rolled initiative. After that I kept hiding as a bonus action to avoid aggroing him. I didn't need to hide to get my Sneak Attack once my allies were right next to the enemy, but I didn't see the point in not using my bonus action. I planned on dashing as a bonus action in order to reach my allies and help them if necessary, but we killed it easily.
Usually, I get close and personal with my rapier, attacking monsters while an ally is near to gain the benefit of my Sneak Attack, then Disengage as a bonus action to get out of harm's way. Rogues specialize in dealing insane amounts of damage to single creatures, but they aren't tanks.
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Most players who have been in the game for more than a handful of sessions know Rule #1: Don't split up. They've seen what happens when it happens. At best, the DM's attention is split and some party members get to make a sandwich while the other group does things. Most players that I know understand this rule and the consequences of breaking it because they've DM'd before.
But then there's Reggie (real name altered to protect the innocent). Reggie is an experienced D&D player but he's running a Rogue for the first time. He likes doing all the usual Roguish stuff like stealing when he shouldn't and most of the time it's a lot of fun (you roll 1 ONE TIME for a Sleight of Hand check...!). The issue is in combat, particularly in the open or in buildings where there are multiple ways to get around. He'll hang back and when the bad guys show up or when the party sees an enemy without being spotted, he does the big fade. If combat hasn't started yet, he'll ask that they give him 30 seconds to get into position. If the fight has started, he'll move heaven, earth, and furniture to find a good spot to attack from. He almost refuses to take an enemy on from the front, leaning heavily into the idea of the Backstab Sneak Attack.
Part of the issue is that it's fun and colorful when he does this. He doesn't sneak off when the party is in a cave or tunnel network because he might get lost. He has no issue with the fact that both the Fighter and the Barb do more damage than him or that he has no spells. The problem is when it takes time away from the party...the WHOLE party. I'm not as opposed to splitting the party as some as long as it's a roughly even split because at least half the party is doing something. However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs.
He's a good RPer, lets the rest of the party have their moments to shine, especially in combat, and generally a good player. But whenever the party is trying to set up for a fight, they roll their eyes at the inevitable 'I'm going to try and circle around.'
How do I balance the party with the lone player? It's certainly not the most egregious behavior I've seen but the rest of the party is starting to grumble to me in private. How do I encourage the flavorful play without letting Reggie turn into a one-trick pony.
If the party is willing to grumble to you, maybe organize a chat at the top of the next session to discuss this as a group? Just put the cards on the table and say "hey, how do we make this work for all of you?" If he really feels underpowered in combat becuase he isn't taking 5 turns to set up a perfect shot, then there are other issues there to discuss. Just to look at that alone:
A) Rogues get their "Sneak attack" at any angle so long as the enemy is threatened by a friendly PC. So you don't need to be "behind" a monster; you just need it distracted. That means that the rogue should be on par for damage output with that sneak attack every turn.
B) Rogues also get the bonus of "Bonus action to disengage, dodge or dash". This means that when a fight starts he should be able to either pop a disengage or a dash to get into a good position right out of the gate. He can also use a bonus action to activate "hide" which would then let him attack with advantage on his next attack and apply bonus damage even if not behind the enemy.
I've had rogues use the "bonus action to hide" really effectively to step around a wall, hide, then slink back into position and take an advantage shot.
And while it's cool to "fade into the shadow at the start of combat" you don't have to make it be 2-5 rounds of maneuvering. It can literally be done in one or two rounds.
The last option I would see for you is to talk to the player and then handwave the "into position" time. He wants 30 seconds to get to a certain spot for the ambush? Cool. Roll your stealth, if you miss, I put you somewhere on the "best" path between A and B and that's where you're spotted. On we go. If he makes the check, boom, he's there. Done. no need to spend 30 minutes on it.
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Oh, there are many easy fixes for this;
1) When the rogue tries to loop around, wouldn't intelligent monsters account for that? All you need is one combat where the rogue gets pinned down alone and away from the group, and there is potential for some bad times.
2) The other PC's are okay with absorbing the incoming fire while the rogue scampers safely around? The group I play in uses Roll20 for maps. I can tell you the critters would flank and pick off the soft targets like the wizard or sorcerer if there aren't enough party members holding the line. There are times where being sneaky in combat may work, but if the combat runs 3-4 rounds; is it worth wasting attack actions?
3) What is the goal of doing this, tactically? You can get a Sneak Attack off just having another party member also adjacent to the target. Rogues also have Cunning Action to get away the same turn. One thing I think players need to be aware of is; the enemy attacks are going somewhere. If you are avoiding being the target, someone else is getting the result of that attack roll. Sometimes your rogue *wants* to draw some enemy fire, so the softer targets don't get hit.
Have you tried talking to him privately?
This is a player issue, not a character issue, so finding ways to screw the character in-game probably won’t help and is just passive-aggressive.
Tell him one-on-one that the way he’s playing his character is starting to get disruptive, and ask him to tone it down. You might mention that other players (don’t name anyone) are finding the game less fun because of what he’s doing. While it’s just as important that he have fun, he can’t do it at the expense of others.
Maybe suggest that he only start sneaking around before really big fights, instead of doing it every time. Explain that it’s great he likes backstabbing the way he does, and he should be able to, just he needs to be better about picking his moment (and honestly there’s no facing in this edition, so “front” vs “back” has no real meaning). If he really feels like he needs to be moving around flanking people, that’s fine, that’s what a rogue does, but that’s why he has a bonus action disengage. He can do that pretty much freely in the middle of a fight, darting all around, and can flavor it all he wants. Ask him to find ways to enjoy playing the character without accidentally hogging the spotlight.
A few comments ...
1) One game I run is for a bunch of friends I have been playing AD&D with for decades. They split up all the time if it makes sense in character to do so ... sometimes it works out fine, other times it causes some challenges for the party or the individual characters but the whole "never split the party" mantra isn't actually a method of play that everyone uses if it doesn't make sense for their characters.
2) In combat everyone gets their turn in initiative order - so I don't understand your comment:
"However, when ONE guy decides to sneak off and ask for 5-6 rounds to flank the enemy and get in a good back shot, that leaves the rest twiddling their thumbs"
If you are in combat, then everyone else is taking their turns in initiative order while this guy goes sneaking off - they should never twiddle their thumbs - they are taking their actions and doing things.
If this is before combat, then roll initiative before they start their approach. There is a chance the rogue or the party will get noticed and start combat as soon as that happens - the party may not even know combat has started until the bad guys attack the rogue they just noticed. Having everything already in initiative makes the transition from set up to fighting very simple and clearly defines the order in which events occur. However, this doesn't have to take much real time at all. Have the rogue roll a stealth check, if they succeed, place them where they want to be and if they fail, have the bad guys attack the rogue first. It only takes 20 seconds to resolve then jump into the fight. There is no reason for the rest of the folks to sit around twiddling their thumbs in a situation that is in combat or about to be a fight.
3) Out of combat is a different issue since the DM needs to spread their attention between the groups of characters that are doing different things. Last night I had three characters go on three separate scouting missions separately at the same time while the remaining two characters waited at the starting point (talk about splitting the party). I cycled through each, resolving a few minutes of activity in each case before going on to the next one in order. I tried to give equal time to each scout and I made sure to check in with every group to see what they were doing. The DM needs to make dealing with each separate situation as efficient as possible. Make them fun but the DM really can't jump into some extended plot/role play situation with a single character leaving the rest of the party doing nothing for 30 minutes while they play with one character (unless the other players are cool with it). It is up to the DM to split their time so that everyone gets attention and if that means the one character running off on their own gets a less detailed or monosyllabic encounter to save time then that might be what happens.
Why are you having the circling around take so much real-world time? Have him describe what he wants to do, have him roll his Stealth check and perhaps any associated checks, and tell him what happens. Shouldn't take very long.
Why do the player think he needs to circle around to the back to perform a " Backstab Sneak Attack"? As mentioned, rogues don't need to attack from behind to get sneak attack. Is that something you have siad or did Reggie come up with that?
Point 1 - don't use the Flanking rules in 5E they are heavily op.
Point 2 - the rogue gets backstab damage whenever he is attacking somebody that has one of his allies within 5 ft of, so he doesn't need to find the perfect position he can just double-team with another party member.
Point 3 - if he insists on sneaking around to the far side of the camp before the party attack, then fast forward the game to where he is in position.
Point 4 - How does the rogue signal to the party that he is in position on the other side of the party? If he doesn't have any form of silent signal then you can ask the rest of the party when they are going to attack, and don't let the rogue's player have any input into that since his PC isn't present with the rest of the party.
Flanking isn't OP. Remember that it works for monsters as well...
I'd lean into the roleplay for it.
1: Don't do it by turns, because presumably, no-one else is doing much. If he says "give me 30 seconds" then ask him where he's going to and hve him roll a stealth check. The DC for not being spotted is going to be the passive perception of the enemies, and if the distance is more than 30 seconds non-dashing movement then I'd add 5 to it for the fact that he's moving quickly.
For certain, stop spending loads of time on him sneaking into position, especially if he does it every time. Find a quick way to work it out and then move on with everyone involved. Prties making tactics is a good thing, but as you've found, focussing on one person is not so much (at least, when it happens every time).
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You have a barbarian? Take them aside and tell them that they have been having reoccurring dreams that their famous ancestor Leroy Jenkins is growing increasingly displeased with them :p
Put traps on obvious routes of attack. Suggest that he makes better use of ranged attacks. Hold action, barbarian attacks, rogue takes attack action on barb's target, then rogue moves and stealths.
Love it! Almost spat my coffee 😂
He wasn't circling around within reach of the enemy. He was circling around, trying to remain unseen by the enemy, to get into an "advantageous" position before the fight starts.
Believe it or not, I managed to solve the issue through demonstration. I found some footage from a variety of movies where a Rogueish character was dashing about the battlefield, stabbing or slashing, then moving away (the little guy from Conan the Destroyer was one of them). He still likes scouting ahead, but that takes care of itself most of the time.
I appreciate the input.
I've played a Rogue more than any other class. I never steal for the sake of stealing. In fact, I've once played a Lawful Good Rogue with the Investigator background, i.e. law enforcement. I hate the Chaotic Stupid stereotype attributed to Rogues and I've often seen other players do stupid things (harmful to the party) because they have severe trust issues toward Rogues in general.
My worst example was when I played a treasure hunter akin to Indianna Jones. I used my Rogue skills to identify and safely traverse a trapped floor to reach a chest while the rest of the party stayed behind. It was my time to shine. As I was checking the contents of the chest, some idiot player dashed in my direction because he wanted to make sure I wouldn't be hiding some of the loot for myself. The idea had never crossed my mind. Thanks to his recklessness, the floor flipped over and we both fell down a spiked pit. We survived, but not without suffering a lot of damage and forcing the other players to use their resources to save us. As for the chest, most of the loot was lost or destroyed.
It wasn't just the character who was stupid, the player was as well. He later bragged to me that he illegally infiltrated a LARP campaign with some of his friends and pretended to be NPCs, offering scam quests and fake magic items that disrupted the game. He's not just an *******, he's a criminal. What he did was criminal trespassing on private property. Thankfully, I never had to play with him outside of that one shot Epic (multi-table event with over 20 players) that lasted an entire day. But I swear I would refuse to play with him ever again. He's on my blacklist.
Anyway, as a Rogue I like alternating between a rapier and a crossbow depending on the situation. Once, my party once fought a hill giant in a wide open area. Using stealth, I circled the battlefield to hide on top of a hill like a sniper. I didn't have to spend 30 minutes to do it. The DM asked for a Stealth check once and I succeeded. I got to use my Sneak Attack on my first turn after we rolled initiative. After that I kept hiding as a bonus action to avoid aggroing him. I didn't need to hide to get my Sneak Attack once my allies were right next to the enemy, but I didn't see the point in not using my bonus action. I planned on dashing as a bonus action in order to reach my allies and help them if necessary, but we killed it easily.
Usually, I get close and personal with my rapier, attacking monsters while an ally is near to gain the benefit of my Sneak Attack, then Disengage as a bonus action to get out of harm's way. Rogues specialize in dealing insane amounts of damage to single creatures, but they aren't tanks.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player