Party killed and Aboleth, Aboleth was working with evil wizard, (wizard found it, released it from its tomb, helped it take over a mine and its inhabitants, was tapping it for ancient knowledge.) Wizard had betrayed Aboleth, that is how the party got there, because it had outlived its usefulness Yes the Aboleth was out planned.
Anyway Aboleth died before the party bothered asking about the wizards plans, it would have told them because it was not happy with wizard for betraying it before it could betray the wizard. But as a trophy the Warforged removed the head.
Now party have realised Cleric has speak with dead and plan to speak with the Aboleth head.
My question, Aboleth “re spawn” when they die, would you treat this the same way as having a clone, the spirit has left the body and therefore there is no spirit to talk with, or, is the new Aboleth a new Aboleth just with all the old ones memories.
I am inclined to let them talk to the Aboleth because it is clever thinking and doesn’t break my campaign. But wondering how others would handle this?
My question, Aboleth “re spawn” when they die, would you treat this the same way as having a clone, the spirit has left the body and therefore there is no spirit to talk with, or, is the new Aboleth a new Aboleth just with all the old ones memories.
Well, it takes days to weeks for that to happen, but it also doesn't really matter, speak with dead doesn't require a soul and aren't necessarily blocked by clone (what exactly clone means by the body becoming 'inert' is not clear).
I can tell you what the RAI is by quoting what the 3.5e version of the spell says.
This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information. Indeed, it can’t even remember being questioned.
You're not actually speaking with the soul, you're speaking with the body. The aboleth could have reformed and be right next to you while you interrogate its previous body. Heck, you could even speak with your own corpse after being reincarnated.
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Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
RAW, 5th edition says almost exactly the same thing:
This spell doesn't return the creature's soul to its body, only its animating spirit. Thus, the corpse can't learn new information, doesn't comprehend anything that has happened since it died, and can't speculate about future events.
Note, this is different from the spell Soul Cage, which actually takes the soul and imprisons it for a short time.
It is (was) an aberration, so whatever it says should be insane.
While living, aberrations are supposed to be just "wrong" to creatures of the prime plane. During whatever weird processes are involved in an aberration's death, it should be even worse.
As an off-the-top-of-my-head idea, when the cleric asks the corpse questions, write down your answer, randomly remove one word in ten, replace a couple of words with completely different ones, then read the answer out in a creepy voice.
Basing everything on their type is ... poor. Read the entry for them and you get this:
Eternal Memories.
Aboleths have flawless memories. They pass on their knowledge and experience from generation to generation. Thus, the injury of their defeat by the gods remains perfectly preserved in their minds. Aboleths' minds are treasure troves of ancient lore, recalling moments from prehistory with perfect clarity. They plot patiently and intricately across eons. Few creatures can conceive of the extent of an aboleth's plan.
Gods in the Lake.
Aboleths dwell in watery environments, including ocean abysses, deep lakes, and the Elemental Plane of Water. In these domains and the lands that adjoin them, aboleths are like gods, demanding worship and obedience from their subjects. When they consume other creatures, aboleths add the knowledge and experiences of their prey to their eternal memories. Aboleths use their telepathic powers to read the minds of creatures and know their desires. An aboleth uses this knowledge to gain a creature's loyalty, promising to fulfill such wants in exchange for obedience. Within its lair, the aboleth can further use its powers to override senses, granting creatures, such as its followers, the illusion of promised rewards.
I think the Aboleth should answer any question with 3 goals in mind.
To not only defeat the Wizard but to do so in a way to ensure the Wizard dies, and PAINFULLY. Speak with dead lets them answer cryptically, if truthful. I suggest you strongly imply that merely killing the wizard is not enough, you must remove X organ before the wizard dies. Imply a contingency or a boon from an evil god. "To ensure death, remove the lungs while the wizard is still alive."
Imply that there is some kind of important god killing artifact at X location, which is in reality the location it expects it will have reincarnated at. Draw in the slaves. "For true power, go to the Lake of Scarmath"
Aboleths hate the Gods, so it should warn about the gods or say something else to turn the players against the Gods. "Trust not Kord"
Basing everything on their type is ... poor. Read the entry for them and you get this:
Eternal Memories.
Aboleths have flawless memories. They pass on their knowledge and experience from generation to generation. Thus, the injury of their defeat by the gods remains perfectly preserved in their minds. Aboleths' minds are treasure troves of ancient lore, recalling moments from prehistory with perfect clarity. They plot patiently and intricately across eons. Few creatures can conceive of the extent of an aboleth's plan.
Gods in the Lake.
Aboleths dwell in watery environments, including ocean abysses, deep lakes, and the Elemental Plane of Water. In these domains and the lands that adjoin them, aboleths are like gods, demanding worship and obedience from their subjects. When they consume other creatures, aboleths add the knowledge and experiences of their prey to their eternal memories. Aboleths use their telepathic powers to read the minds of creatures and know their desires. An aboleth uses this knowledge to gain a creature's loyalty, promising to fulfill such wants in exchange for obedience. Within its lair, the aboleth can further use its powers to override senses, granting creatures, such as its followers, the illusion of promised rewards.
I think the Aboleth should answer any question with 3 goals in mind.
To not only defeat the Wizard but to do so in a way to ensure the Wizard dies, and PAINFULLY. Speak with dead lets them answer cryptically, if truthful. I suggest you strongly imply that merely killing the wizard is not enough, you must remove X organ before the wizard dies. Imply a contingency or a boon from an evil god. "To ensure death, remove the lungs while the wizard is still alive."
Imply that there is some kind of important god killing artifact at X location, which is in reality the location it expects it will have reincarnated at. Draw in the slaves. "For true power, go to the Lake of Scarmath"
Aboleths hate the Gods, so it should warn about the gods or say something else to turn the players against the Gods. "Trust not Kord"
Very much the way I was thinking of planning this, of course depends on the questions asked but the Wizard cast Mind Blank on himself or his Simulacrum every time one of them went to converse with the Aboleth, but the Aboleth has inferred a lot of information from the wizard about his goals and history. The party think the Wizard is dead, they have now faced off against him, and despite being level 6 killed him, which the players are a little confused at as they know some of his abilities, one thinks I just went easy on them, but the characters have taken as fact, in reality he had a clone and wanted the party thinking he was dead to allow him to carry on now. But the Aboleth will have some idea of what the Wizard may have done, if they ask the question correctly.
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So wondering how you would all handle this.
Party killed and Aboleth, Aboleth was working with evil wizard, (wizard found it, released it from its tomb, helped it take over a mine and its inhabitants, was tapping it for ancient knowledge.) Wizard had betrayed Aboleth, that is how the party got there, because it had outlived its usefulness Yes the Aboleth was out planned.
Anyway Aboleth died before the party bothered asking about the wizards plans, it would have told them because it was not happy with wizard for betraying it before it could betray the wizard. But as a trophy the Warforged removed the head.
Now party have realised Cleric has speak with dead and plan to speak with the Aboleth head.
My question, Aboleth “re spawn” when they die, would you treat this the same way as having a clone, the spirit has left the body and therefore there is no spirit to talk with, or, is the new Aboleth a new Aboleth just with all the old ones memories.
I am inclined to let them talk to the Aboleth because it is clever thinking and doesn’t break my campaign. But wondering how others would handle this?
Well, it takes days to weeks for that to happen, but it also doesn't really matter, speak with dead doesn't require a soul and aren't necessarily blocked by clone (what exactly clone means by the body becoming 'inert' is not clear).
I can tell you what the RAI is by quoting what the 3.5e version of the spell says.
You're not actually speaking with the soul, you're speaking with the body. The aboleth could have reformed and be right next to you while you interrogate its previous body. Heck, you could even speak with your own corpse after being reincarnated.
Age: 33 | Sex: Male | Languages: French and English | Roles: DM and Player
RAW, 5th edition says almost exactly the same thing:
Note, this is different from the spell Soul Cage, which actually takes the soul and imprisons it for a short time.
It is (was) an aberration, so whatever it says should be insane.
While living, aberrations are supposed to be just "wrong" to creatures of the prime plane. During whatever weird processes are involved in an aberration's death, it should be even worse.
As an off-the-top-of-my-head idea, when the cleric asks the corpse questions, write down your answer, randomly remove one word in ten, replace a couple of words with completely different ones, then read the answer out in a creepy voice.
Basing everything on their type is ... poor. Read the entry for them and you get this:
I think the Aboleth should answer any question with 3 goals in mind.
Very much the way I was thinking of planning this, of course depends on the questions asked but the Wizard cast Mind Blank on himself or his Simulacrum every time one of them went to converse with the Aboleth, but the Aboleth has inferred a lot of information from the wizard about his goals and history. The party think the Wizard is dead, they have now faced off against him, and despite being level 6 killed him, which the players are a little confused at as they know some of his abilities, one thinks I just went easy on them, but the characters have taken as fact, in reality he had a clone and wanted the party thinking he was dead to allow him to carry on now. But the Aboleth will have some idea of what the Wizard may have done, if they ask the question correctly.