i am a bit scared with killing off PCs. especially when theyre low level. Now my level 4 party has encountered enemies they normally wouldve died to. and they never try to flee. what do i do?
Players never flee. If they go up against something too tough for them, and they should definitely know this beforehand, then you gotta let the repercussions happen. If you don't then the players lose faith in the danger of the world and its a downward spiral from there. Nothing matters.
One thing you can do tho us prepare things that are *worse* than death, and let them happen instead of character death. Gives the players solid repercussions, feedback that they need to take the world seriously, without potentially derailing the game. I think of these like "lives" in a computer game, or a warning. Everyone gets one.
Examples are things like death of a beloved NPC or pet, loss of faction standing (like knighthood revoked), magic items being destroyed etc...
The other thing I do is prepare beforehand what a TPK would mean in each encounter. Most of my encounters won't end in everyone dying in a TPK. They'll all be captured, robbed, or infected or something. That way I can go all out. However where a TPK would end in everyone dying, like if the party is attacked by hungry wolves, I make sure that the players 100% know this. It has the fun side effect of making seemingly easy encounters very tense as the dice can always go either way.
Oh and I always roll in front of the screen. That way if the worst happens... not my fault.
Killing players is generally considered to be in poor form, and is illegal in many locations. Killing a PC, is supposed to be part of the game.
I would agree that the players need to make the decisions about what happens with their PCs, and might suggest that you play into that by giving a fair warning when you know that the challenge that they are about to face is indeed lethal, and the very real and probable possibility is that one or more PCs may get unalived in the process. Don't be subtle. Players can't read subtle hints and clues. Just flat tell them a PC is most likely leaving this encounter breathing a lot less than when they started it.
You can telegraph the power of the monster that you're putting infront of them by narrating the damage that it leaves as it travels and moves.(Claw marks on trees 10 ft. off the ground, trees snapped off/uprooted and pushed aside.) You can have it devour or eviscerate a creature of size and power that would dwarf their frame. (White Dragon eating an Orca that it just caught.) Or describe the remains of the last party that attempted to overcome this challenge and the damage to the survivors equipment and bodies, if there were any survivors.
I will also agree that the DM should be allowed to go all out with the encounters that they build, under the understanding that the players know what they are getting into, and were allowed the opportunity to choose to risk their PC's life.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Players have to be taught to flee, my players, after years of playing with me, understand that sometimes I will give them an encounter that WILL kill them if they don't find a way to avoid it. It might be sneaking through a space avoiding a monster, making a last gasp defence and retreat from the BBEG because they are not yet ready to fight him, or an environment that they can't physically fight.
But death happens, my last session the party cleric died. I didn't expect it when I set the encounter up, party had just killed a BBEG and where transitioning to the next part of the campaign in a new area, I set up a random encounter on route with some hobgoblins and a combination of poor player tactics and choices, and good rolls meant that the cleric went prone, got attacked by 2 iron shadows, went unconscious with 1 death saving throw. Players lost track of initiative order so didn't heal him before his turn and he died. They are level 6 and I am amazed it didn't happen sooner then this :) (it has got close).
So yes death happens, and it can be a great experiance for the story. Now, I have given the player 2 options, the party are heading to the powerful capital city, which has magic shops, a magic university and every major religion has temples there so there will be someone there that can resurrect the character (at a price, possibly future adventure ideas). or they can roll up a new character. They have opted to roll up a character.
One option to hammer it home to the players is to tell them outright: "We're getting to a dangerous part of the campaign now. Please can everyone have a backup character ready for next session, as if you keep charging at the monsters like this, you'll need them."
Danger of death is a key part of the game - there's a reason why resurrection A) exists and 2) is a higher level spell with an expensive component. You are expecting that poor tactics will result in death, and then you take resurrection spells to mitigate later death when you get to that level. If you remove the danger of death, why waste spell slots on healing and resurrection?
So, this was a fear for me too but you do have some tools in your kit as a DM.
The players don't (or shouldn't) know what the stat block of your enemies are. So, reduce the health if they are really struggling. If you get questions, most monster's health is given in terms of how many dice too, so you can claim you rolled up the monsters HP rather than kept the stock figure. I love actually rolling up HP for enemies, keeps players on their toes and does kinda teach them not to meta.
If you really don't want them to die, you can focus the enemy damage on a different player. When one is severely injured you can RP it that the enemy strides toward another player leaving the injured one to die of their wounds (we all know it won't happen, but is a nice RP moment).
Dice rolls can be fudged.
Death saving throws are there for a reason. They give players that chance not to die properly...and other players the chance to save the downed comrade.
Sometimes taking a player to 0hp can be a wake up call when you've got a group that just don't get it.
Sometimes killing a player is fair...regardless of if they have a backup character.
More than once I've had players who wander off on their own, do their own thing without backup. This happened in my session last night. It was a huge area to explore, and there ended up with the rogue falling prey to a mimic. I'd set it up so that the first chest they came across had a nice piece of loot in, but the second one he headed to was a mimic at the end of a five foot wide corridor. Two of his party were exploring a side room, one was waiting midway between that group and the other two members of the party who went to try and get their hands on what they thought was a dragon egg. Said Rogue ended up on 4hp and I had the chance to knock him down further. Two players simply didn't get the chance to fight as they were too busy running back. This really was a lesson that I'd set up for them. Wander off at your own peril. The two that didn't act had decided that they were going to try and take something from two fire elementals....at level 3. Had their rogue not fallen prey to the mimic, they too would've been pretty badly banged up if not killed.
Whichever way it had gone, I set up the area for them. I gave them warning in the first room. They touched an orb between two air elementals. The elementals 'took interest' in and moved towards the person touching the orb. The second the player let go, the elementals took a figurative step back. That was their warning. This area is no joke. Yet, they still separated. Had a player died, it really would've been their own faults. Especially as I was using a modified version of a mimic with less hp. I even asked for a couple of checks on approach to the chest.
So, this was a fear for me too but you do have some tools in your kit as a DM.
The players don't (or shouldn't) know what the stat block of your enemies are. So, reduce the health if they are really struggling. If you get questions, most monster's health is given in terms of how many dice too, so you can claim you rolled up the monsters HP rather than kept the stock figure. I love actually rolling up HP for enemies, keeps players on their toes and does kinda teach them not to meta.
If you really don't want them to die, you can focus the enemy damage on a different player. When one is severely injured you can RP it that the enemy strides toward another player leaving the injured one to die of their wounds (we all know it won't happen, but is a nice RP moment).
Dice rolls can be fudged.
Death saving throws are there for a reason. They give players that chance not to die properly...and other players the chance to save the downed comrade.
Sometimes taking a player to 0hp can be a wake up call when you've got a group that just don't get it.
Sometimes killing a player is fair...regardless of if they have a backup character.
More than once I've had players who wander off on their own, do their own thing without backup. This happened in my session last night. It was a huge area to explore, and there ended up with the rogue falling prey to a mimic. I'd set it up so that the first chest they came across had a nice piece of loot in, but the second one he headed to was a mimic at the end of a five foot wide corridor. Two of his party were exploring a side room, one was waiting midway between that group and the other two members of the party who went to try and get their hands on what they thought was a dragon egg. Said Rogue ended up on 4hp and I had the chance to knock him down further. Two players simply didn't get the chance to fight as they were too busy running back. This really was a lesson that I'd set up for them. Wander off at your own peril. The two that didn't act had decided that they were going to try and take something from two fire elementals....at level 3. Had their rogue not fallen prey to the mimic, they too would've been pretty badly banged up if not killed.
Whichever way it had gone, I set up the area for them. I gave them warning in the first room. They touched an orb between two air elementals. The elementals 'took interest' in and moved towards the person touching the orb. The second the player let go, the elementals took a figurative step back. That was their warning. This area is no joke. Yet, they still separated. Had a player died, it really would've been their own faults. Especially as I was using a modified version of a mimic with less hp. I even asked for a couple of checks on approach to the chest.
I will say point 1 and 3, if your players get a sense you are nerfing the game in there favour, can really upset players. I have been on the end of it as a player and that amazing moment where we managed to kill the dragon and barely survive was snatched away when we found out that the DM had fudged the Hit points of the dragon and it's attack rolls because he was worried another round of combat would lead to a TPK. That game actually collapsed soon after because the players felt what was the point.
I am not saying don't do it, maybe you have made an encounter far harder then you intended, but just be aware players will get a sense of it if you do it too much and it can impact there enjoyment.
Same with fudging dice rolls, I make every dice roll in combat in the open so my players see every roll in front of them.
Killing players is very fair, it is a part of the game and there is always the chance of resurrection, even if not in the moment, but just be aware that fudging and changing stats and dice rolls is taking away player agency and while it can all be for the right reason it can really upset players if they find out far more then a character dying will.
I will say point 1 and 3, if your players get a sense you are nerfing the game in there favour, can really upset players. I have been on the end of it as a player and that amazing moment where we managed to kill the dragon and barely survive was snatched away when we found out that the DM had fudged the Hit points of the dragon and it's attack rolls because he was worried another round of combat would lead to a TPK. That game actually collapsed soon after because the players felt what was the point.
I am not saying don't do it, maybe you have made an encounter far harder then you intended, but just be aware players will get a sense of it if you do it too much and it can impact there enjoyment.
Same with fudging dice rolls, I make every dice roll in combat in the open so my players see every roll in front of them.
Killing players is very fair, it is a part of the game and there is always the chance of resurrection, even if not in the moment, but just be aware that fudging and changing stats and dice rolls is taking away player agency and while it can all be for the right reason it can really upset players if they find out far more then a character dying will.
Oh, I totally get that, but I make it clear in Session 0 (or hope I do) that any time a rule is bent or broken is in service of the game. And as I say when it comes to the altering of HP of enemies let's be clear here we're talking about the difference between taking fixed HP on level up or rolling for it. I just roll for the majority of my enemy's hp because it makes it more interesting. Let's take a basic mimic. They can a HP of anywhere between 27 and 90. I find that varying the HP of creatures adds to the depth of the game. Just because you come across one mimic at 58hp, doesn't mean they're all at 58hp. That means that you can have some diversity even in a swarm. Skeletons are great for this, they have a swing of 6-20hp.
So while I take what you mean about nerfing, I do think it's a common mis-step by DMs to just see the HP number and go with that. It does make it easier for a player to meta. If they know that a skeleton is 13hp, they can track that. If, in a more realistic way they can only really try to guess at how strong this one looks, it's difficult to meta game and count off the HP. In a game with just two players once, I had rolled up a skeleton at 19hp who one of the players actively decided not to use a spell slot because it was a waste on something with so few HP. When it didn't go down and they complained I asked how their character knew the Skeleton's HP? Of course the character didn't and neither did they. On explanation said players did agree that it made future encounters less predictable. This has even bigger ramifications when a player decides they're going to use their 1d4 attack on a commoner. If said commoner only had 1hp (it's 4 or 1d8 after all)...that joke attack may end up knocking the character unconscious or worse. The player's actions have a greater weight and consequence.
As to fudging dice rolls, here's the thing I agree. Doing it because you feel sympathy for the character can be a bad thing. However, I'm sure other DMs have had that encounter you planned for the party to just breeze through and then one thing you didn't see happening happened and the party is suddenly in trouble. Being able to fudge a roll is one of the tools available to you in the moment. What I was suggesting, or thought I was suggesting is that my post was about the different tools we have and can utilise. It's about using the right tool for the right occasion. If a player for example comes up with an amazing scheme to achieve a goal and they're off by one on their check...the more narratively interesting thing to me can sometimes be to allow that thing to happen. That's part of why the DM screen exists. I see one of the duties of the DM is to aid the players in telling the group's story. To do that sometimes we have to cheat so that the best possible story happens. Now if that requires a death...cool. If it means accepting a 14 instead of a 16, I'm going do it. It's why I don't tell a player what they're trying to beat on a check.
Of course that is all just my POV and I'm sure a lot of DMs disagree with me, that's cool too.
I will say point 1 and 3, if your players get a sense you are nerfing the game in there favour, can really upset players. I have been on the end of it as a player and that amazing moment where we managed to kill the dragon and barely survive was snatched away when we found out that the DM had fudged the Hit points of the dragon and it's attack rolls because he was worried another round of combat would lead to a TPK. That game actually collapsed soon after because the players felt what was the point.
I am not saying don't do it, maybe you have made an encounter far harder then you intended, but just be aware players will get a sense of it if you do it too much and it can impact there enjoyment.
Same with fudging dice rolls, I make every dice roll in combat in the open so my players see every roll in front of them.
Killing players is very fair, it is a part of the game and there is always the chance of resurrection, even if not in the moment, but just be aware that fudging and changing stats and dice rolls is taking away player agency and while it can all be for the right reason it can really upset players if they find out far more then a character dying will.
Oh, I totally get that, but I make it clear in Session 0 (or hope I do) that any time a rule is bent or broken is in service of the game. And as I say when it comes to the altering of HP of enemies let's be clear here we're talking about the difference between taking fixed HP on level up or rolling for it. I just roll for the majority of my enemy's hp because it makes it more interesting. Let's take a basic mimic. They can a HP of anywhere between 27 and 90. I find that varying the HP of creatures adds to the depth of the game. Just because you come across one mimic at 58hp, doesn't mean they're all at 58hp. That means that you can have some diversity even in a swarm. Skeletons are great for this, they have a swing of 6-20hp.
So while I take what you mean about nerfing, I do think it's a common mis-step by DMs to just see the HP number and go with that. It does make it easier for a player to meta. If they know that a skeleton is 13hp, they can track that. If, in a more realistic way they can only really try to guess at how strong this one looks, it's difficult to meta game and count off the HP. In a game with just two players once, I had rolled up a skeleton at 19hp who one of the players actively decided not to use a spell slot because it was a waste on something with so few HP. When it didn't go down and they complained I asked how their character knew the Skeleton's HP? Of course the character didn't and neither did they. On explanation said players did agree that it made future encounters less predictable. This has even bigger ramifications when a player decides they're going to use their 1d4 attack on a commoner. If said commoner only had 1hp (it's 4 or 1d8 after all)...that joke attack may end up knocking the character unconscious or worse. The player's actions have a greater weight and consequence.
As to fudging dice rolls, here's the thing I agree. Doing it because you feel sympathy for the character can be a bad thing. However, I'm sure other DMs have had that encounter you planned for the party to just breeze through and then one thing you didn't see happening happened and the party is suddenly in trouble. Being able to fudge a roll is one of the tools available to you in the moment. What I was suggesting, or thought I was suggesting is that my post was about the different tools we have and can utilise. It's about using the right tool for the right occasion. If a player for example comes up with an amazing scheme to achieve a goal and they're off by one on their check...the more narratively interesting thing to me can sometimes be to allow that thing to happen. That's part of why the DM screen exists. I see one of the duties of the DM is to aid the players in telling the group's story. To do that sometimes we have to cheat so that the best possible story happens. Now if that requires a death...cool. If it means accepting a 14 instead of a 16, I'm going do it. It's why I don't tell a player what they're trying to beat on a check.
Of course that is all just my POV and I'm sure a lot of DMs disagree with me, that's cool too.
Oh I change monster hit points before game, for instance my party just fought the big bad of this part of the campaign (an aboleth) I had bumped him to 290 hit points from the 135 he normally has because I know how much damage my party of 7 can put out in a round. What I dont do is then tweak that number again once initiative is rolled (and in fact not once the session starts).
As for checks, I came up playing TTRPs with a sliding scale so the hard pass fail of DnD never sits with me anyway so I always have a sliding scale to my pass fail target. All my TN's come with a range rather then a hard number so none of my players will ever fail by 1, that 1 might turn a great success to a barely scraping by success. But also, the dice sometimes tell there own fantastic story like you say DM's will do it as they see fit, and some of my dice rolls are behind the screen but when it comes to combat everything happens in front of the players they love the excitement of watching that dice roll and seeing if it hit's them, death saving throws however, they happen behind my screen with players putting dice in a dice tower of doom that spits the result where only I can see it so players never know if a character has made it's death saving throw.
As for checks, I came up playing TTRPs with a sliding scale so the hard pass fail of DnD never sits with me anyway so I always have a sliding scale to my pass fail target. All my TN's come with a range rather then a hard number so none of my players will ever fail by 1, that 1 might turn a great success to a barely scraping by success. But also, the dice sometimes tell there own fantastic story like you say DM's will do it as they see fit, and some of my dice rolls are behind the screen but when it comes to combat everything happens in front of the players they love the excitement of watching that dice roll and seeing if it hit's them, death saving throws however, they happen behind my screen with players putting dice in a dice tower of doom that spits the result where only I can see it so players never know if a character has made it's death saving throw.
Oh, I love the system that FATE, Fudge and Blades in the Dark have where it's a scale as you mention. Success with complication is a cool idea. I had that recently where a PC decided they were going to jump and flip over an enemy and didn't quite make the roll I had in mind so I basically had them make the jump but end flat on their face which was quite fun!
Killing off players would get you in trouble. Their characters are fair game--although there's always space to come out of character and say, "look, guys, your characters are making some dangerous choices and there will be consequences."
Deaths of PCs happen. It's a natural consequence of the game and as long as the DM runs the game fairly and doesn't intentionally try to kill the PCs then there isn't an issue. (though it is natural for the DM to feel bad when a character dies - I know I empathize with the characters when I run a game).
However, there can often be a disconnect between player knowledge and character knowledge. A character might look at this Adult Dragon, squeal in fear and try to sneak away. Players aren't that smart usually. Some metagame and think "The DM wouldn't put a dragon here unless we can kill it", others think "Cool! A dragon has great loot. Let's kill it." In both these cases, the players are acting without the knowledge that the CHARACTER automatically knows just by looking at the creature (I'm a level 4 fighter ... that dragon will eat me as an appetizer).
It is the responsibility of the DM in these cases to be completely honest, upfront and blunt with the players. "Your character takes one look at this creature and knows that they will die if it comes to combat. They WILL die. There is no other outcome possible." ... repeat until the players appear to understand the situation from a more realistic perspective. You should also mention in session 0 that there will be encounters that the party will not possibly be able to resolve by combat but the players will still need reminding of this at crucial points.
You can also have encounters where you expect the players to assess the danger level based on clues in the scene. In this type of situation you again need to be blunt if the players are missing the hints that the characters would easily see. "The cave entrance is surrounded by the bones of creatures with the flesh eaten off. You see the corpses of <some powerful creatures the party might have trouble killing>" If the players don't get the hint then the DM has to hint harder.
However, if even after all of these hints and foreshadowing the party still decides combat is the best approach then the party gets to face the consequences and if they don't run when they should then some or all of them may not make it.
There are several reasons PCs don't flee, but a major one is that they don't actually believe you'd kill their characters. For which the solution is... killing some PCs. Just don't pull your punches and let the dice fall where they may, and either they'll learn a valuable lesson, or you'll learn that PCs are tougher than you think. Or both.
Killing off players would get you in trouble. Their characters are fair game--although there's always space to come out of character and say, "look, guys, your characters are making some dangerous choices and there will be consequences."
As a player always concerned if a DM is constantly inviting new players to there table because previous ones suffered shock accidents :) (pretty sure there is a B movie plot there lol)
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i am a bit scared with killing off PCs. especially when theyre low level. Now my level 4 party has encountered enemies they normally wouldve died to. and they never try to flee. what do i do?
Players never flee. If they go up against something too tough for them, and they should definitely know this beforehand, then you gotta let the repercussions happen. If you don't then the players lose faith in the danger of the world and its a downward spiral from there. Nothing matters.
One thing you can do tho us prepare things that are *worse* than death, and let them happen instead of character death. Gives the players solid repercussions, feedback that they need to take the world seriously, without potentially derailing the game. I think of these like "lives" in a computer game, or a warning. Everyone gets one.
Examples are things like death of a beloved NPC or pet, loss of faction standing (like knighthood revoked), magic items being destroyed etc...
The other thing I do is prepare beforehand what a TPK would mean in each encounter. Most of my encounters won't end in everyone dying in a TPK. They'll all be captured, robbed, or infected or something. That way I can go all out. However where a TPK would end in everyone dying, like if the party is attacked by hungry wolves, I make sure that the players 100% know this. It has the fun side effect of making seemingly easy encounters very tense as the dice can always go either way.
Oh and I always roll in front of the screen. That way if the worst happens... not my fault.
Killing players is generally considered to be in poor form, and is illegal in many locations. Killing a PC, is supposed to be part of the game.
I would agree that the players need to make the decisions about what happens with their PCs, and might suggest that you play into that by giving a fair warning when you know that the challenge that they are about to face is indeed lethal, and the very real and probable possibility is that one or more PCs may get unalived in the process. Don't be subtle. Players can't read subtle hints and clues. Just flat tell them a PC is most likely leaving this encounter breathing a lot less than when they started it.
You can telegraph the power of the monster that you're putting infront of them by narrating the damage that it leaves as it travels and moves.(Claw marks on trees 10 ft. off the ground, trees snapped off/uprooted and pushed aside.) You can have it devour or eviscerate a creature of size and power that would dwarf their frame. (White Dragon eating an Orca that it just caught.) Or describe the remains of the last party that attempted to overcome this challenge and the damage to the survivors equipment and bodies, if there were any survivors.
I will also agree that the DM should be allowed to go all out with the encounters that they build, under the understanding that the players know what they are getting into, and were allowed the opportunity to choose to risk their PC's life.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Players have to be taught to flee, my players, after years of playing with me, understand that sometimes I will give them an encounter that WILL kill them if they don't find a way to avoid it. It might be sneaking through a space avoiding a monster, making a last gasp defence and retreat from the BBEG because they are not yet ready to fight him, or an environment that they can't physically fight.
But death happens, my last session the party cleric died. I didn't expect it when I set the encounter up, party had just killed a BBEG and where transitioning to the next part of the campaign in a new area, I set up a random encounter on route with some hobgoblins and a combination of poor player tactics and choices, and good rolls meant that the cleric went prone, got attacked by 2 iron shadows, went unconscious with 1 death saving throw. Players lost track of initiative order so didn't heal him before his turn and he died. They are level 6 and I am amazed it didn't happen sooner then this :) (it has got close).
So yes death happens, and it can be a great experiance for the story. Now, I have given the player 2 options, the party are heading to the powerful capital city, which has magic shops, a magic university and every major religion has temples there so there will be someone there that can resurrect the character (at a price, possibly future adventure ideas). or they can roll up a new character. They have opted to roll up a character.
One option to hammer it home to the players is to tell them outright: "We're getting to a dangerous part of the campaign now. Please can everyone have a backup character ready for next session, as if you keep charging at the monsters like this, you'll need them."
Danger of death is a key part of the game - there's a reason why resurrection A) exists and 2) is a higher level spell with an expensive component. You are expecting that poor tactics will result in death, and then you take resurrection spells to mitigate later death when you get to that level. If you remove the danger of death, why waste spell slots on healing and resurrection?
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So, this was a fear for me too but you do have some tools in your kit as a DM.
More than once I've had players who wander off on their own, do their own thing without backup. This happened in my session last night. It was a huge area to explore, and there ended up with the rogue falling prey to a mimic. I'd set it up so that the first chest they came across had a nice piece of loot in, but the second one he headed to was a mimic at the end of a five foot wide corridor. Two of his party were exploring a side room, one was waiting midway between that group and the other two members of the party who went to try and get their hands on what they thought was a dragon egg. Said Rogue ended up on 4hp and I had the chance to knock him down further. Two players simply didn't get the chance to fight as they were too busy running back. This really was a lesson that I'd set up for them. Wander off at your own peril. The two that didn't act had decided that they were going to try and take something from two fire elementals....at level 3. Had their rogue not fallen prey to the mimic, they too would've been pretty badly banged up if not killed.
Whichever way it had gone, I set up the area for them. I gave them warning in the first room. They touched an orb between two air elementals. The elementals 'took interest' in and moved towards the person touching the orb. The second the player let go, the elementals took a figurative step back. That was their warning. This area is no joke. Yet, they still separated. Had a player died, it really would've been their own faults. Especially as I was using a modified version of a mimic with less hp. I even asked for a couple of checks on approach to the chest.
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I will say point 1 and 3, if your players get a sense you are nerfing the game in there favour, can really upset players. I have been on the end of it as a player and that amazing moment where we managed to kill the dragon and barely survive was snatched away when we found out that the DM had fudged the Hit points of the dragon and it's attack rolls because he was worried another round of combat would lead to a TPK. That game actually collapsed soon after because the players felt what was the point.
I am not saying don't do it, maybe you have made an encounter far harder then you intended, but just be aware players will get a sense of it if you do it too much and it can impact there enjoyment.
Same with fudging dice rolls, I make every dice roll in combat in the open so my players see every roll in front of them.
Killing players is very fair, it is a part of the game and there is always the chance of resurrection, even if not in the moment, but just be aware that fudging and changing stats and dice rolls is taking away player agency and while it can all be for the right reason it can really upset players if they find out far more then a character dying will.
Oh, I totally get that, but I make it clear in Session 0 (or hope I do) that any time a rule is bent or broken is in service of the game. And as I say when it comes to the altering of HP of enemies let's be clear here we're talking about the difference between taking fixed HP on level up or rolling for it. I just roll for the majority of my enemy's hp because it makes it more interesting. Let's take a basic mimic. They can a HP of anywhere between 27 and 90. I find that varying the HP of creatures adds to the depth of the game. Just because you come across one mimic at 58hp, doesn't mean they're all at 58hp. That means that you can have some diversity even in a swarm. Skeletons are great for this, they have a swing of 6-20hp.
So while I take what you mean about nerfing, I do think it's a common mis-step by DMs to just see the HP number and go with that. It does make it easier for a player to meta. If they know that a skeleton is 13hp, they can track that. If, in a more realistic way they can only really try to guess at how strong this one looks, it's difficult to meta game and count off the HP. In a game with just two players once, I had rolled up a skeleton at 19hp who one of the players actively decided not to use a spell slot because it was a waste on something with so few HP. When it didn't go down and they complained I asked how their character knew the Skeleton's HP? Of course the character didn't and neither did they. On explanation said players did agree that it made future encounters less predictable. This has even bigger ramifications when a player decides they're going to use their 1d4 attack on a commoner. If said commoner only had 1hp (it's 4 or 1d8 after all)...that joke attack may end up knocking the character unconscious or worse. The player's actions have a greater weight and consequence.
As to fudging dice rolls, here's the thing I agree. Doing it because you feel sympathy for the character can be a bad thing. However, I'm sure other DMs have had that encounter you planned for the party to just breeze through and then one thing you didn't see happening happened and the party is suddenly in trouble. Being able to fudge a roll is one of the tools available to you in the moment. What I was suggesting, or thought I was suggesting is that my post was about the different tools we have and can utilise. It's about using the right tool for the right occasion. If a player for example comes up with an amazing scheme to achieve a goal and they're off by one on their check...the more narratively interesting thing to me can sometimes be to allow that thing to happen. That's part of why the DM screen exists. I see one of the duties of the DM is to aid the players in telling the group's story. To do that sometimes we have to cheat so that the best possible story happens. Now if that requires a death...cool. If it means accepting a 14 instead of a 16, I'm going do it. It's why I don't tell a player what they're trying to beat on a check.
Of course that is all just my POV and I'm sure a lot of DMs disagree with me, that's cool too.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Oh I change monster hit points before game, for instance my party just fought the big bad of this part of the campaign (an aboleth) I had bumped him to 290 hit points from the 135 he normally has because I know how much damage my party of 7 can put out in a round. What I dont do is then tweak that number again once initiative is rolled (and in fact not once the session starts).
As for checks, I came up playing TTRPs with a sliding scale so the hard pass fail of DnD never sits with me anyway so I always have a sliding scale to my pass fail target. All my TN's come with a range rather then a hard number so none of my players will ever fail by 1, that 1 might turn a great success to a barely scraping by success. But also, the dice sometimes tell there own fantastic story like you say DM's will do it as they see fit, and some of my dice rolls are behind the screen but when it comes to combat everything happens in front of the players they love the excitement of watching that dice roll and seeing if it hit's them, death saving throws however, they happen behind my screen with players putting dice in a dice tower of doom that spits the result where only I can see it so players never know if a character has made it's death saving throw.
Oh, I love the system that FATE, Fudge and Blades in the Dark have where it's a scale as you mention. Success with complication is a cool idea. I had that recently where a PC decided they were going to jump and flip over an enemy and didn't quite make the roll I had in mind so I basically had them make the jump but end flat on their face which was quite fun!
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
They die, they die. Get over it.
That's all I got.
Killing off players would get you in trouble. Their characters are fair game--although there's always space to come out of character and say, "look, guys, your characters are making some dangerous choices and there will be consequences."
Deaths of PCs happen. It's a natural consequence of the game and as long as the DM runs the game fairly and doesn't intentionally try to kill the PCs then there isn't an issue. (though it is natural for the DM to feel bad when a character dies - I know I empathize with the characters when I run a game).
However, there can often be a disconnect between player knowledge and character knowledge. A character might look at this Adult Dragon, squeal in fear and try to sneak away. Players aren't that smart usually. Some metagame and think "The DM wouldn't put a dragon here unless we can kill it", others think "Cool! A dragon has great loot. Let's kill it." In both these cases, the players are acting without the knowledge that the CHARACTER automatically knows just by looking at the creature (I'm a level 4 fighter ... that dragon will eat me as an appetizer).
It is the responsibility of the DM in these cases to be completely honest, upfront and blunt with the players. "Your character takes one look at this creature and knows that they will die if it comes to combat. They WILL die. There is no other outcome possible." ... repeat until the players appear to understand the situation from a more realistic perspective. You should also mention in session 0 that there will be encounters that the party will not possibly be able to resolve by combat but the players will still need reminding of this at crucial points.
You can also have encounters where you expect the players to assess the danger level based on clues in the scene. In this type of situation you again need to be blunt if the players are missing the hints that the characters would easily see. "The cave entrance is surrounded by the bones of creatures with the flesh eaten off. You see the corpses of <some powerful creatures the party might have trouble killing>" If the players don't get the hint then the DM has to hint harder.
However, if even after all of these hints and foreshadowing the party still decides combat is the best approach then the party gets to face the consequences and if they don't run when they should then some or all of them may not make it.
There are several reasons PCs don't flee, but a major one is that they don't actually believe you'd kill their characters. For which the solution is... killing some PCs. Just don't pull your punches and let the dice fall where they may, and either they'll learn a valuable lesson, or you'll learn that PCs are tougher than you think. Or both.
As a player always concerned if a DM is constantly inviting new players to there table because previous ones suffered shock accidents :) (pretty sure there is a B movie plot there lol)