So... this is gonna be a complicated question... basically, I have a homebrewed big bad that I'm hoping my party will fight at some point. My question is, at what PC level would it be a good match for the party if they're fighting it by themselves, and at what PC level would it be a good match for the party with a specific ally?
To clarify, by "good match", I mean that I want it to be a challenging fight that isn't over too quickly, I mean, it is my primary BBEG of the campaign at this point in time, and is possibly the only one of these creatures to have ever existed (they're created through dark and forbidden rituals), and I want the fight to reflect this severity, but I'm also really not interested in killing characters.
The bad guy: A homebrewed red dragon/vampire shapeshifter, CR 23 if calculated correctly (which tbh it might not be, if anything it would probably be higher). It can shapeshift between these two forms, and both forms have to be killed in order for the monster to truly die (ex. if it is killed as a dragon, it shifts into its vampire form with however many HP the vampire still has left, or vice versa. It has two separate pools of HP). Many of the abilities are the same, with it only being able to use the abilities that pertain to its current form (ex. it can only use fire breath when in dragon form, it can only use the charm ability in vampire form, etc). This has a few exceptions/additional things to note:
It is able to cast spells, in vampire form only, and is equivalent to an 8th or 9th level spellcaster.
I didn't use most of the vampire's traits, including its additional forms, vulnerabilities, and regeneration, and the vampire form wields a sword and a poison dagger.
I replaced the vampire's "Children of the Night" ability with a lair action (able to be used in either form) that summons 1d4 magmins. I have no idea if this changes the balance of the original ability or not.
The party: Four PCs, I don't know their classes yet, the campaign hasn't even started so maybe I'm a little ahead of myself here lol. They will all be the same level as each other at the same time tho, since I plan on using the milestone level up.
The possible ally: An adult silver dragon who is essentially the sworn enemy of this monstrosity, some sort of negative backstory most likely exists between them, and the dragon might offer to fight with the party to rid the world of this evil being.
Obviously the challenge for the party is going to be very different if they have a whole dragon fighting with them, so that's why I want to know what level the party should face the BBEG at without this ally, as well as with it. If they'd be able to fight it at a pretty low level with a dragon ally, then I won't offer that option to them, as I'd rather have this be a close-to-end-game type fight. I also want to know how to prepare the pacing of the storyline so that they get to this BBEG at the right time/the right level.
If you've actually read all of this, thank you so much. I have no idea how to balance an encounter since I've never run a game before and I only have a little bit of playing experience, so I appreciate the help!
1) Base this BBEG off a Vampire Stat block, but treat the shapechanging like you would a druid. So, this Vampire can shapechange into a Dragon, when it's Dragon HP pool drops to 0, or at will it can revert to vampire form. I'd then use only the stat blocks and abilities of a Vampire and a Red Dragon. Don't homebrew further than that because if you're a new DM you're already giving yourself a massive challenge. Basically this means that you decide how many times the Vampire can shift form into the Dragon (I personally would choose just once per encounter as a start). So, maybe the Vampire starts off as a vampire, gets a few HP knocked off and then shifts into the Dragon form. At this point they get all the HP of the dragon and you treat the BBEG as a dragon until either they decide to shift back or are knocked down to 0 Dragon HP. At this point they'd revert to the Vampire form. It's the simplest way of doing that. I'd also suggest not switching out any other abilities as until you've got more experience under your belt it's difficult to know how an encounter will play out. In my last session I literally had a monk kick an Undying solider off a ledge. I had lost track however of the fact that my player utilise the environment in that campaign far more than other players I've DM'd for. Likewise, if your players have a lot of pets, or familiars, or companions the dynamic of play changes hugely. I'd also ditch the ally in this scenario.
2) The player characters are the ones that fight the vampire form, the silver dragon only wishes to fight the dragon form. You could even utilise the Silver dragon's shapechange ability to have them start the fight as a dragonborn fighter at the same level as the player characters, only to have them transform into a dragon to take on the red dragon form of the BBEG.
In all honesty though, I'd treat homebrew with care if you're less experienced with DMing and less experienced with your players. Players do all sorts of fun things that can take you by surprise. So, I'd seriously learn their play styles and preferences before throwing homebrew into the mix personally.
The other thing to say about Challenge Ratings is that I've always found it a bit difficult to work out how magic items and such affect the CR of an encounter. If you're allowing your players to buy magic weapons or items, or granting such items as loot during the campaign...that's all going to make it even more difficult to understand how your homebrew is going to work and if it's even balanced.
TLDR - Be very careful approaching homebrew if you don't know your players styles well yet. Gain some experience as DM, and experience of the party before you start homebrewing.
That's just my 2p worth though and others may suggest differently.
Thanks so much for the advice! I tend to have a runaway imagination and be pretty particular, so it's hard for me to stay away from homebrewing lol. And in general when I start any type of project I tend to rush in and do the most complicated thing possible and find myself way over my head. I appreciate the reminder to take it more slowly and ease myself into something new like this. I'm starting off the campaign with non-homebrew encounters and will try to work myself up by starting with adjusting minor details, and hopefully by the time we reach the point where the players would be taking on this enemy, I'll have more experience with them as a party, with homebrewing and how that affects encounters, and DMing in general, which will hopefully address the concerns you, and honestly I as well, have. I've already created the stat block for this BBEG, but it's really just a WIP that can always be edited if, as I get more used to the game and the players, I feel I initially made mistakes- which is quite likely. I'm already definitely rethinking its ridiculously high AC.
I also appreciate the suggestion of having the silver dragon only fight the dragon form- it would lead to a more balanced fight, especially if the red dragon was a bit more powerful than the silver (to prevent it from just being dragon-on-dragon and get the party involved), and is a good way to get the ally involved in the fight without having it be too encounter-breaking.
So... this is gonna be a complicated question... basically, I have a homebrewed big bad that I'm hoping my party will fight at some point. My question is, at what PC level would it be a good match for the party if they're fighting it by themselves, and at what PC level would it be a good match for the party with a specific ally?
To clarify, by "good match", I mean that I want it to be a challenging fight that isn't over too quickly, I mean, it is my primary BBEG of the campaign at this point in time, and is possibly the only one of these creatures to have ever existed (they're created through dark and forbidden rituals), and I want the fight to reflect this severity, but I'm also really not interested in killing characters.
The bad guy: A homebrewed red dragon/vampire shapeshifter, CR 23 if calculated correctly (which tbh it might not be, if anything it would probably be higher). It can shapeshift between these two forms, and both forms have to be killed in order for the monster to truly die (ex. if it is killed as a dragon, it shifts into its vampire form with however many HP the vampire still has left, or vice versa. It has two separate pools of HP). Many of the abilities are the same, with it only being able to use the abilities that pertain to its current form (ex. it can only use fire breath when in dragon form, it can only use the charm ability in vampire form, etc). This has a few exceptions/additional things to note:
The party: Four PCs, I don't know their classes yet, the campaign hasn't even started so maybe I'm a little ahead of myself here lol. They will all be the same level as each other at the same time tho, since I plan on using the milestone level up.
The possible ally: An adult silver dragon who is essentially the sworn enemy of this monstrosity, some sort of negative backstory most likely exists between them, and the dragon might offer to fight with the party to rid the world of this evil being.
Obviously the challenge for the party is going to be very different if they have a whole dragon fighting with them, so that's why I want to know what level the party should face the BBEG at without this ally, as well as with it. If they'd be able to fight it at a pretty low level with a dragon ally, then I won't offer that option to them, as I'd rather have this be a close-to-end-game type fight. I also want to know how to prepare the pacing of the storyline so that they get to this BBEG at the right time/the right level.
If you've actually read all of this, thank you so much. I have no idea how to balance an encounter since I've never run a game before and I only have a little bit of playing experience, so I appreciate the help!
Keep marching on!
Personally, I'd have two suggestions for you:
1) Base this BBEG off a Vampire Stat block, but treat the shapechanging like you would a druid. So, this Vampire can shapechange into a Dragon, when it's Dragon HP pool drops to 0, or at will it can revert to vampire form. I'd then use only the stat blocks and abilities of a Vampire and a Red Dragon. Don't homebrew further than that because if you're a new DM you're already giving yourself a massive challenge. Basically this means that you decide how many times the Vampire can shift form into the Dragon (I personally would choose just once per encounter as a start). So, maybe the Vampire starts off as a vampire, gets a few HP knocked off and then shifts into the Dragon form. At this point they get all the HP of the dragon and you treat the BBEG as a dragon until either they decide to shift back or are knocked down to 0 Dragon HP. At this point they'd revert to the Vampire form. It's the simplest way of doing that. I'd also suggest not switching out any other abilities as until you've got more experience under your belt it's difficult to know how an encounter will play out. In my last session I literally had a monk kick an Undying solider off a ledge. I had lost track however of the fact that my player utilise the environment in that campaign far more than other players I've DM'd for. Likewise, if your players have a lot of pets, or familiars, or companions the dynamic of play changes hugely. I'd also ditch the ally in this scenario.
2) The player characters are the ones that fight the vampire form, the silver dragon only wishes to fight the dragon form. You could even utilise the Silver dragon's shapechange ability to have them start the fight as a dragonborn fighter at the same level as the player characters, only to have them transform into a dragon to take on the red dragon form of the BBEG.
In all honesty though, I'd treat homebrew with care if you're less experienced with DMing and less experienced with your players. Players do all sorts of fun things that can take you by surprise. So, I'd seriously learn their play styles and preferences before throwing homebrew into the mix personally.
The other thing to say about Challenge Ratings is that I've always found it a bit difficult to work out how magic items and such affect the CR of an encounter. If you're allowing your players to buy magic weapons or items, or granting such items as loot during the campaign...that's all going to make it even more difficult to understand how your homebrew is going to work and if it's even balanced.
TLDR - Be very careful approaching homebrew if you don't know your players styles well yet. Gain some experience as DM, and experience of the party before you start homebrewing.
That's just my 2p worth though and others may suggest differently.
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Thanks so much for the advice! I tend to have a runaway imagination and be pretty particular, so it's hard for me to stay away from homebrewing lol. And in general when I start any type of project I tend to rush in and do the most complicated thing possible and find myself way over my head. I appreciate the reminder to take it more slowly and ease myself into something new like this. I'm starting off the campaign with non-homebrew encounters and will try to work myself up by starting with adjusting minor details, and hopefully by the time we reach the point where the players would be taking on this enemy, I'll have more experience with them as a party, with homebrewing and how that affects encounters, and DMing in general, which will hopefully address the concerns you, and honestly I as well, have. I've already created the stat block for this BBEG, but it's really just a WIP that can always be edited if, as I get more used to the game and the players, I feel I initially made mistakes- which is quite likely. I'm already definitely rethinking its ridiculously high AC.
I also appreciate the suggestion of having the silver dragon only fight the dragon form- it would lead to a more balanced fight, especially if the red dragon was a bit more powerful than the silver (to prevent it from just being dragon-on-dragon and get the party involved), and is a good way to get the ally involved in the fight without having it be too encounter-breaking.
Thanks again for the helpful tips!
Keep marching on!