Hey all I'll be starting a new campaign soon and one of my players wants to play Matt Mercer's Gunslinger (and I'm 100% ok with them doing that). However, I've heard a lot of comments/complaints about the subclass, mainly about its misfire and reload features and a more general complaint about it being more designed for pathfinder than dnd. So, what I'd like to know is:
1) has anyone DMed for a gunslinger before?
2) If yes, how was your experience with this subclass?
3) Did you make any changes to the subclass and/or would you make any changes to it if you DMed for it again (and if yes, what changes?)
4) Or do you think it's fine as is?
If anyone hasn't dealt with this class before but has some helpful insights to offer on any of my questions, I would also be very grateful to hear from you. Thanks in advance.
I have not personally DMed for it, so take this with a grain of saltpetre, but I have heard others say it can be a bit better if you allow the Gunner feat from Tasha’s negate the Reload property on the firearms (Tasha’s only applies to “loading” which is a different keyword). That still leaves you with misfiring as a downside, but folks who want to play a gunslinger, instead of a different fighter with guns, likely want that element of disaster chance for fun or roleplaying.
You also might want to hold off until Spelljammer releases next week - Giff are a race generally associated with firearms and the setting itself will likely have some tools for firearm users, so there may be new ways to mitigate Gunslinger’s flaws (or ways that can easily be transmitted to mitigating Gunslinger flaws, like the Tasha feat).
In the campaign I ran a little while back I allowed it for a new player character and what I will say is that you need to be as familiar with that subclass as your player. Take a look on the forums and see what rules issues DMs have come up against. My experience was seeing my player get a bit frustrated with the class. It is (from what I understand) adapted from a different system after all. There are quite a number of grey areas where the rules don't really interact as well as they could or should. As I say this is to be expect so I think you need to make your player aware that there will be these grey areas and your ruling will be final.
This was the source of friction between me and another player. I'm wary of Critical Role content for one simple reason...too many players with 'main character-itis'. For one player who really wanted a firearm and to be a gunslinger I made the exception and effort to learn how the class worked. I had a caveat that no, they wouldn't be getting the pepperbox as it felt WAY overpowered for a level one character and entirely inappropriate for a world that hadn't even discovered hot air balloons or basic cannons yet. They instead got a one shot pistol. That was a mistake because the misfire function ended unhappily for the player especially when the weapon was damaged and they had no tinkers tools! From there it all went downhill as that player just wanted to roleplay as Percy from CR. His actions became so erratic that it began to affect the dynamic of the group. They essentially always wanted to be the one dealing that clutch shot or clutch manoeuvre. I've been wary of CR content ever since (perhaps unfairly). It's worth saying too that most firearms users I've had in my campaigns have been of that ilk so I do unfairly judge firearms in D&D, instead steering players toward different RPG systems. That's on me though and my bias is based on an experience I know that other DMs do not share.
So my advice:
Learn the class inside and out before Session 0. Trick shots can blindside the DM's work on encounter balance if you don't consider them.
Make sure that you and the player have talked about how you'll handle fuzzy rule interactions they will and do happen especially if a player is trying to do something unexpected.
Don't limit weapon choices without good reason (or if you do maybe rethink the misfire quality).
Make sure the player's character has tinkers tools.
Consider how they'll restock ammo. As this is such a unique tech in the world they can make ammo but the materials aren't going to be widely available...ammo certainly won't.
Consider weapon upgrades very carefully. Where and how will they get what is 'new and volatile technology'. What happens if the firearm is destroyed?
Double check that they're not just trying to roleplay Percy or some other character from an actual play. It can hint at problems ahead.
Consider if you're allowing feats...the Gunner feat can feel unbalanced (imo) for the gunslinger.
Think about multi-class interactions before you need to. Again, it can get a bit fuzzy here...but I imagine if prepared it can be fine.
Trying to be as fair and as objective as I can I think with enough prep it'll be a good campaign. Hopefully me airing my own biases and ways I'd handle the issue if I faced it again might help you. If not, I still hope it's a terrifically enjoyable game for you and your players.
The biggest problem with Gunslinger is the misfire system, which works perfectly fine in Pathfinder which is built around micromanaging a lot of little things that 5e largely ignores. As a result, Gunslingers are balanced under the assumption that firearms will make them over-powered compared to other fighters, with the misfire system being what keeps them balanced... but that's not really how it works out. Especially now that firearms are more common in 5e in general, and now a Battlemaster with the Gunner Feat is a 100% improvement over the Gunslinger in every way.
I think there's a couple ways to address this... one is to drop misfire entirely, and now the balance for the class is just the cost of ammo and the difficulty in getting new weaponry. Another is to play using critical fumbles for everyone, although the Gunslinger's fumble is more built into their mechanics. Of course... it's possible your player just enjoys this kind of micromanaging, and if they're all in for it... hey, no harm, no foul.
As others have already said, learn the subcclass back to front. My campaign has already dealt me some surprises as characters leveled into new abilities that I didn't know about.
Feel free to change anything about the subclass that you don't like, but discuss the changes with the player so you're both on the same page. Ask him how they see the character progression. A Gunner without Sharpshooter is nowhere near as deadly as a Gunner with it. If that's not how they see their character, it might be fine.
Let them know that they'll be spending downtime making ammo or looking for places to buy it from. While the rest of the party might be having run at the tavern, the Gunner might have to work. Explain that this is a downside and you'll enforce it. Supplies will cost money and also may not always be available.
Let them be the Big Damned hero once in a while. That's a good bit of what Fighters DO. It's okay if the player wants to be the MVP once in a while. Just make sure to let them know that they have to be willing to share the limelight with others.
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Hey all I'll be starting a new campaign soon and one of my players wants to play Matt Mercer's Gunslinger (and I'm 100% ok with them doing that). However, I've heard a lot of comments/complaints about the subclass, mainly about its misfire and reload features and a more general complaint about it being more designed for pathfinder than dnd. So, what I'd like to know is:
1) has anyone DMed for a gunslinger before?
2) If yes, how was your experience with this subclass?
3) Did you make any changes to the subclass and/or would you make any changes to it if you DMed for it again (and if yes, what changes?)
4) Or do you think it's fine as is?
If anyone hasn't dealt with this class before but has some helpful insights to offer on any of my questions, I would also be very grateful to hear from you. Thanks in advance.
I have not personally DMed for it, so take this with a grain of saltpetre, but I have heard others say it can be a bit better if you allow the Gunner feat from Tasha’s negate the Reload property on the firearms (Tasha’s only applies to “loading” which is a different keyword). That still leaves you with misfiring as a downside, but folks who want to play a gunslinger, instead of a different fighter with guns, likely want that element of disaster chance for fun or roleplaying.
You also might want to hold off until Spelljammer releases next week - Giff are a race generally associated with firearms and the setting itself will likely have some tools for firearm users, so there may be new ways to mitigate Gunslinger’s flaws (or ways that can easily be transmitted to mitigating Gunslinger flaws, like the Tasha feat).
In the campaign I ran a little while back I allowed it for a new player character and what I will say is that you need to be as familiar with that subclass as your player. Take a look on the forums and see what rules issues DMs have come up against. My experience was seeing my player get a bit frustrated with the class. It is (from what I understand) adapted from a different system after all. There are quite a number of grey areas where the rules don't really interact as well as they could or should. As I say this is to be expect so I think you need to make your player aware that there will be these grey areas and your ruling will be final.
This was the source of friction between me and another player. I'm wary of Critical Role content for one simple reason...too many players with 'main character-itis'. For one player who really wanted a firearm and to be a gunslinger I made the exception and effort to learn how the class worked. I had a caveat that no, they wouldn't be getting the pepperbox as it felt WAY overpowered for a level one character and entirely inappropriate for a world that hadn't even discovered hot air balloons or basic cannons yet. They instead got a one shot pistol. That was a mistake because the misfire function ended unhappily for the player especially when the weapon was damaged and they had no tinkers tools! From there it all went downhill as that player just wanted to roleplay as Percy from CR. His actions became so erratic that it began to affect the dynamic of the group. They essentially always wanted to be the one dealing that clutch shot or clutch manoeuvre. I've been wary of CR content ever since (perhaps unfairly). It's worth saying too that most firearms users I've had in my campaigns have been of that ilk so I do unfairly judge firearms in D&D, instead steering players toward different RPG systems. That's on me though and my bias is based on an experience I know that other DMs do not share.
So my advice:
Trying to be as fair and as objective as I can I think with enough prep it'll be a good campaign. Hopefully me airing my own biases and ways I'd handle the issue if I faced it again might help you. If not, I still hope it's a terrifically enjoyable game for you and your players.
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The biggest problem with Gunslinger is the misfire system, which works perfectly fine in Pathfinder which is built around micromanaging a lot of little things that 5e largely ignores. As a result, Gunslingers are balanced under the assumption that firearms will make them over-powered compared to other fighters, with the misfire system being what keeps them balanced... but that's not really how it works out. Especially now that firearms are more common in 5e in general, and now a Battlemaster with the Gunner Feat is a 100% improvement over the Gunslinger in every way.
I think there's a couple ways to address this... one is to drop misfire entirely, and now the balance for the class is just the cost of ammo and the difficulty in getting new weaponry. Another is to play using critical fumbles for everyone, although the Gunslinger's fumble is more built into their mechanics. Of course... it's possible your player just enjoys this kind of micromanaging, and if they're all in for it... hey, no harm, no foul.
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As others have already said, learn the subcclass back to front. My campaign has already dealt me some surprises as characters leveled into new abilities that I didn't know about.
Feel free to change anything about the subclass that you don't like, but discuss the changes with the player so you're both on the same page. Ask him how they see the character progression. A Gunner without Sharpshooter is nowhere near as deadly as a Gunner with it. If that's not how they see their character, it might be fine.
Let them know that they'll be spending downtime making ammo or looking for places to buy it from. While the rest of the party might be having run at the tavern, the Gunner might have to work. Explain that this is a downside and you'll enforce it. Supplies will cost money and also may not always be available.
Let them be the Big Damned hero once in a while. That's a good bit of what Fighters DO. It's okay if the player wants to be the MVP once in a while. Just make sure to let them know that they have to be willing to share the limelight with others.