So I am 100% new to Dming. I decided to try my luck and run a story that I had spent a good deal of time on. I tried not to plan too much because I knew that sometimes the party would just do their own thing and I couldn't plan for everything. However, the group I am playing with is tiny. I started with 4, but one had issues with coming to game and I ended up having to ask them to leave. Of the three other players, however, I have two problem players. Both of these players are very close friends of mine, but since the start of the game all they seemed to care about is their romantic relationship with their characters. Now don't get me wrong, I am by no means against people wanting to rp love lives for their characters in game, but my problem relies on the fact that--its all they care about.
for example, My tiefling Ranger who plays their character like a rogue more than anything lol, is my most difficult player/character. The person who plays the character practically plays them as an *******. Case in point doesn't care about NPCs, doesn't care about major plot lines, just is more focused on themselves and their lover. (the other player). Pretty much if I give them a hint or tell them something big about the plot or something dramatic about the game itself all they react with is 'ok' with a very broad monotone. They are always on their phone during combat and just straight-up act board all the time or just doesn't want to react or do anything but stand there and look broody.
My other player is the jokester. They play a tiefling Druid who is supposed to be shy and sweet. However, they always make jokes at my expense when it comes to phrases I use or If i mispronounce a word. (I have dyslexia and sometimes I trip over myself when I talk) If they are not making fun of me they are saying something ooc about the game that's a joke. I'm not against joking or making funny quips at times but this is like a consistent thing and they don't take anything seriously at all in-game. This player will also have to be reminded constantly of things I say bc they were not paying attention to what I said the first time and I constantly have to repeat myself.
This being said I am at a loss of what to do. I've gone so far as to go to each character and tell them my issues and asked them what kind of game they want and they always come back with I don't know, or I don't care, or the game is fine. I've asked for feedback and they give me none. I ask if they would like me to change anything in-game and they say nothing. I've tried everything and at the end of the day I'm just at a loss. I don't have many friends and I love playing DnD so its difficult for me to just say F-it and leave. They don't care about the game just the rp aspect of a relationship between their two characters and nothing or no one else. I was at one point near my breaking-in where I almost told them that if they didn't come up with a reason to keep going that the game would end--but I hate confrontation and don't want to anger anyone but at this point, it's clearly not fun for me. This is mostly just for me to rant but if anyone has some good advice on what I could do to maybe get these two invested more in the game and less on each other. Please <3
1) Adjust. Maybe sense 2 of your players only seem interested in their in-game relationship, so adjust your story to that, and figure out what your other player wants to do, and add it all to your story. Now if this isn’t fun for you then you might have go with the other option
2) tell your players you want them to focus on your story or you’ll stop DMing. Tell your players you aren’t enjoying the game and that you’d like them to focus on the game not their quirks they’ve chosen for their characters, you might even go as far as saying you’ll stop DMing if they can’t focus.
this isn’t an ideal situation, if they continue to act this way even after you tell them you need them to focus, then it’s time to bail. The game should be fun for everyone, not just the players.
However, they always make jokes at my expense when it comes to phrases I use or If i mispronounce a word. (I have dyslexia and sometimes I trip over myself when I talk)
I think the other problems are solvable, but this one is not. I'm not suggesting physical violence here, let me be very clear. But...
This person is not your friend. I think this should get (at MOST) a single, "Do that again, and I'm sending you to the curb. Seriously." The best reaction to their behavior is to give them 30 seconds to pack their dice and be out your front door.
We talk about inclusion and equality a lot here. Making fun of a speech impediment from 3 feet away should definitely result in that person learning a lesson immediately. At the very least, the opportunity to repeat the attack should not be allowed.
A personal attack is one of the few ways to lose at D&D.
1) Instead of asking them what they want out of the game, you might want to start by asking them if they really want to play at all. I realize it is a tough question, these are your friends, you love D&D and want to play with them. However, it sounds like they may have said Yes to playing because they are your friends but instead of really playing they just sit at the table because they are "playing" because you asked and not because they want to. As a result, they aren't very invested. However, whatever they might answer, don't let it disrupt your friendship. D&D isn't a game everyone likes or can get into playing.
2) The person making "jokes" at your expense, making fun of dyslexia and the mistakes you might make, making "jokes" of how you run the game or comments you make isn't funny at all. Honestly, as ThatKert said, they aren't acting like a friend at all. They aren't making "jokes", they aren't funny. They are using verbal attacks at your expense where the only possible real goal is to hurt you, ostracize you, or just being a completely insensitive @#%^&. You might want to ask them to stop since it really isn't "friend" behavior.
3) None of us commenting are actually at your sessions so there could be a lot more going on that you haven't mentioned. This especially applies to outside of the game elements like the two players role playing a love interest .. does that reflect a real life relationship? How does that impact the game? Since D&D is a social game, social elements from the game and real life can often mix together and some of those can be the source of in game problems. e.g. You mentioned 3 players, 2 of which are roleplaying a relationship. How does the 3rd player feel about that? What does the 3rd player do while the other 2 characters are canoodling? Watching two characters get into role playing a relationship can range from fascinating to extremely uncomfortable to boring for anyone else in the game.
It sounds like your players aren't just not invested in your game, it sounds like they're not invested in DND, and not willing to get invested. I think this is just not the game for your friend group, and it might be best to lower the curtain on this campaign before it causes irl problems between you and your friends. Not every group can be a good dnd group. As Matt Coville says, "not every band is Rush."
The fact that you tried to have a discussion with them is good, that's what you're supposed to do in these scenarios. The fact that they replied with dismissal is also telling. If someone tells you that they don't care, listen. You're going to break your back trying to engage them and all you're going to have to show for it is a broken back, and they won't have noticed.
I would just tell them outright that you're thinking about ending the campaign because you're not having fun. Either the players will see that you were serious about all those attempted discussions they dismissed and try to have a conversation in good faith about how they could change the game so everyone is having fun (the DM is still a player and their fun still matters), or your players continue not to care and you find a new game to play on game night. No dnd is better than bad dnd.
As far as not having a game to play if this one folds, I think you'd find it easier to get a group to take a game seriously if you found a group to play dnd with (rather than seeing if your existing group wants to play dnd). You don't have to be friends already because it's a great way to get to know people. I would recommend reaching out through like a local comic book/hobby store, library, or local area dnd Facebook group (I found my current group just by googling [my city name] Dungeons and Dragons after I'd just moved here, and after a few games with randos I settled on a group that went on to become most of my friends in this area), and finding a group with the mutual understanding that you're here to play dnd, and build up from there.
Otherwise you could find a game online through one of the many LFG boards (of which Dnd Beyond has one) and go from there. But if you're one of the many who prefers in-person, your best bet is probably to hit up your local comic shops and ask at the desk if anybody's running a game there and if it's joinable.
I think you are focusing in the wrong aspects of your campaign good sir!, for me the actual issue is that you are disregarding the game your players are enjoying and focusing in what you want to do, as a DM I understand that creating a setting, background, npc's, etc is tiresome and you want your players to enjoy the story you created for them as much as you enjoy it or you would enjoy it if you were playing but to may point of view, D&D 101, forget about yourself as a player because you are not, you are a DM because you have the mentality and versatility to mix in those weird paths your players take to your main story. If your player are completely focused on their "Love Relationship" then have them suffer to keep their Love afloat, have one be kidnapped, put them in a tight spot, Do you want real feedback? You are the one in charge of the plot but the story is constructed by your players while playing, let them, you are the DM, D&D DM guide book is for you to reference, not to follow word by word what the book is telling you, you as the DM and your players have millions of possibilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
I think you are focusing in the wrong aspects of your campaign good sir!, for me the actual issue is that you are disregarding the game your players are enjoying and focusing in what you want to do, as a DM I understand that creating a setting, background, npc's, etc is tiresome and you want your players to enjoy the story you created for them as much as you enjoy it or you would enjoy it if you were playing but to may point of view, D&D 101, forget about yourself as a player because you are not, you are a DM because you have the mentality and versatility to mix in those weird paths your players take to your main story. If your player are completely focused on their "Love Relationship" then have them suffer to keep their Love afloat, have one be kidnapped, put them in a tight spot, Do you want real feedback? You are the one in charge of the plot but the story is constructed by your players while playing, let them, you are the DM, D&D DM guide book is for you to reference, not to follow word by word what the book is telling you, you as the DM and your players have millions of possibilities.
I very much disagree with this post. If the question in the original post was "how do I keep my players on track?" then I would suggest being more open to what the players want and incorporate it into the game, but when the OP says that they are actively not having fun, I don't think the answer is to disregard their own enjoyment and change everything about their game so they're having less fun.
However, they always make jokes at my expense when it comes to phrases I use or If i mispronounce a word. (I have dyslexia and sometimes I trip over myself when I talk)
I think the other problems are solvable, but this one is not. I'm not suggesting physical violence here, let me be very clear. But...
This person is not your friend. I think this should get (at MOST) a single, "Do that again, and I'm sending you to the curb. Seriously." The best reaction to their behavior is to give them 30 seconds to pack their dice and be out your front door.
We talk about inclusion and equality a lot here. Making fun of a speech impediment from 3 feet away should definitely result in that person learning a lesson immediately. At the very least, the opportunity to repeat the attack should not be allowed.
A personal attack is one of the few ways to lose at D&D.
I don’t know what kind of friend group you run with because me+every person I know makes fun of everyone else, friends are allowed to do this. I HIGHLY doubt this person is genuinely trying to hurt you, at worst they’re just immature. And why are you bothered by teasing? If you don’t have a problem with your dyslexia then no matter what anyone says they can’t hurt you using that (yes it’s true, I know because I have impediments myself). So if it really bothers you that much and you continue to tell them to stop and they don’t, stop inviting them to sessions. but I wouldn’t be bothered by this, because there are so many terrible things you have to go through in life, and a friend joking around about your dyslexia doesn’t even make the list.
"You're wrong for being made uncomfortable by this" is also a pretty questionable take. Your attitude can be your attitude, but if OP tells us this bothers them, it's not our business to explain why they're "wrong".
Some people are made comfortable by good-natured ribbing, but as we're not at OP's table, we have no way of knowing if OP is one of those people, or if this ribbing is in face just friendly banter.
We talk about inclusion and equality a lot here. Making fun of a speech impediment from 3 feet away should definitely result in that person learning a lesson immediately. At the very least, the opportunity to repeat the attack should not be allowed.
I don’t know what kind of friend group you run with because me+every person I know makes fun of everyone else, friends are allowed to do this. I HIGHLY doubt this person is genuinely trying to hurt you, at worst they’re just immature. And why are you bothered by teasing? If you don’t have a problem with your dyslexia then no matter what anyone says they can’t hurt you using that (yes it’s true, I know because I have impediments myself). So if it really bothers you that much and you continue to tell them to stop and they don’t, stop inviting them to sessions. but I wouldn’t be bothered by this, because there are so many terrible things you have to go through in life, and a friend joking around about your dyslexia doesn’t even make the list.
That's the point. The people at my table aren't digging at a disability. There are jokes, but if they go too far or are too pointed, that stops very quickly. That doesn't happen automatically. It stops because people end it.
No, friends aren't automatically allowed to do something that hurts you. This is 2022, and many people are fighting for that stuff to end.
I get what you say but don't understand why you would disagree with the post, the title Literally says "New DM and already burned out", meaning he is tired of trying to have his players follow the story as he wrote it which at the end of the day disregards the freedom the players would have. I want to believe that being a DM means been able to modify your story (Setting) either add content or remove it as the adventure progresses which in this case he is not fully doing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
I get what you say but don't understand why you would disagree with the post, the title Literally says "New DM and already burned out", meaning he is tired of trying to have his players follow the story as he wrote it which at the end of the day disregards the freedom the players would have. I want to believe that being a DM means been able to modify your story (Setting) either add content or remove it as the adventure progresses which in this case he is not fully doing.
Yes but the DM isn't describing a situation where the players are just too interested in one aspect of the game. The DM is describing a situation where the players care about nothing in-game, have no motivation to be adventurers (having motivation is a critical component of the gaming social contact, because if everyone sits down to play and one player says 'actually I'm gonna be a farmer--hey don't leave me behind just because I'm not conforming to what the DM wants!' that's called disrupting the game), and they're not trying to take part in anything. From a roleplay perspective, it is possible to be in a relationship and also care about the world around them-- literally everyone does that all the time-- so their lack of engagement with any other part of the game isn't them just "not being into the story", it's lazy and to me comes off as disrespectful when the DM has multiple times asked what they could do to make the game more accommodating to them and the players keep saying "I don't care it's all good."
Basically if you asked me what I wanted to eat and I said pp&j, and you made me a pp&j and I left it on the plate in front of me and ignored it week after week, and you asked me if something was wrong with it and I kept insisting "no it's fine, it's great" but never gave it a second glance, I don't think it would be fair to say that it's your fault for giving me the wrong sandwich. And I think it would be understandable if you didn't want to eat with me anymore.
Right, I get that and you are half correct, your job as a DM is have the players engaged in the game, to do so you have to be open to whatever the players want to do, we are not only talking about a new DM but also pretty new D&D players. Is one thing to know about D&D, role-play, etc. and another thing is playing it, different factors are involved like shyness for example, of course they wont care because they don't really know how to play. Give me this response when you have a party of people that are veteran player, not even veteran, acquainted with D&D is enough to have players who know how to focus in the game and follow along the DM's story line. If you have new players you have to give them the ability to do what they want, new players will never play according to the rules or the DM's wishes and it might not even be for their attitude is because they lack a lot of knowledge about the game itself. It's been 4/5 sessions so far, they have enjoyed the game as is because they are constructing the story, I'm not saying the DM is wrong, I'm saying the DM is the teacher and if the DM does not know how to handle each player's characteristics and personality then the DM will never have a full table nor a full campaign. A DM is worthless without players and I'm not saying this to be complacent with the players and do everything as they want it done. The DM works with people and has to stir their imagination so that the players can immerse and enjoy the game and if they are not able to do so with the intervention of the DM then they will do it by themselves which it seems is happening in this case and no, I don't mean its the DM's fault, its both, players and DM.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
Right, I get that and you are half correct, your job as a DM is have the players engaged in the game, to do so you have to be open to whatever the players want to do, we are not only talking about a new DM but also pretty new D&D players. Is one thing to know about D&D, role-play, etc. and another thing is playing it, different factors are involved like shyness for example, of course they wont care because they don't really know how to play. Give me this response when you have a party of people that are veteran player, not even veteran, acquainted with D&D is enough to have players who know how to focus in the game and follow along the DM's story line. If you have new players you have to give them the ability to do what they want, new players will never play according to the rules or the DM's wishes and it might not even be for their attitude is because they lack a lot of knowledge about the game itself. It's been 4/5 sessions so far, they have enjoyed the game as is because they are constructing the story, I'm not saying the DM is wrong, I'm saying the DM is the teacher and if the DM does not know how to handle each player's characteristics and personality then the DM will never have a full table nor a full campaign. A DM is worthless without players and I'm not saying this to be complacent with the players and do everything as they want it done. The DM works with people and has to stir their imagination so that the players can immerse and enjoy the game and if they are not able to do so with the intervention of the DM then they will do it by themselves which it seems is happening in this case and no, I don't mean its the DM's fault, its both, players and DM.
If this were just a group of people who got together to form a dnd group, newness notwithstanding, I think you would have more of a point. But I see red flags when I hear that the DM is the one who likes dnd, the players are close friends of the DM but don't appear to care about the game, one is on his phone all the time and disinterested in the actual game, and the other is picking on the DM's insecurities while they're trying to run. That sounds to me like a classic case of one person offering to run because they really want to play with their friends, and they're friends humoring them, barely. It sounds unpleasant, and the DM might not have even been aware that they were the only one who actually wants to play.
Now, as stated in the first comment, OP certainly has the option to try and fix it by steering into the players' behavior, but that comment stipulates that even that might not work. That's the important distinction. It *could* be the DM's fault for focusing on the wrong aspects of the game, but I think where your original comment went wrong was in not acknowledging that the situation might have risen through no fault of the DMs, and by ignoring that the DM is already unhappy with the game, and leaning more into what makes them unhappy might not be a good solution.
However, you do raise a good point. Sometimes this is just how new players act, because no other game lets them have the kind of freedom you have in a ttrpg. I wouldn't say that's a mark in favor of continuing to try to salvage the game. If anything it shows that OP and the players clearly want different things out of the game, and sort of leaves OP's solution as just "play with them and be unhappy until they develope more as players." There is no knowing how long that might take, and I don't think it's the OP's responsibility to babysit then.
Again, maybe this is the DM not running the game the players wanna play, but the point is we don't know, so saying "you're focusing on the wrong thing" with any kind of certainty seems like potentially harmful advice if it does happen that, as context suggests, the players are just not into the game. The DM *could* work really really hard to try and save the game and it could be rewarding, but based off the context it doesn't sound very salvageable to me, and trying could be a very arduous, unpleasant, and thankless task.
Yeah, I get what you say because I believe you are totally correct, you were able to convey my thoughts in a better way than I was able to as I was not able to put it into words as I wanted, thus the part "You are focusing in the wrong thing" was supposed to be interpreted as "Have a serious conversation with the players but as a group and not as an individual" and expose to them that all the effort that was made to get them an enjoyable game is useless due to their behavior and advance from there, but as you said, nobody is playing D&D to babysit anybody, that's for sure because at the end of the day as a DM you enjoy the game while watching your Players grow and evolve alongside the story and is not happening for this campaign and if after a serious conversation with them as a group nothing changes then make the decision to either stop the campaign as it is or keep on going.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
These maybe your friends but they are toxic gamers. See if you can hit the local game store for open games or adventure league. Don't play D&D with these people. Still invite them to Taco Tuesday and bad movie Friday.
So, one of the most difficult lessons to learn for me what that a DM's desires aren't the focus of the story in a game like D&D.
The best way I can phrase it is that the world is essentially a sandbox you are creating for the players to explore and shape. The story belongs to the group.
What that means in practice is that sometimes players are going to fail to recognise the work you put in as a DM and just ignore the quest hooks that you've laid down. Being able to adapt and go with that is the skill of improvisation. Sadly, I think many DMs will recognise that parties that ignore our quest hooks are going to get the less optimal experience. So I shout that out now at session zeros.
'I prepare a session by creating quest hooks and scenarios for you all to encounter. That often means I create maps and set up encounters ahead of time to prepare. While you can do anything you wish within the rules, I'd like to make sure that everyone realises that by ignoring quest hooks and suggested activity for the party you'll get a materially less polished experience. It might mean reverting solely to theatre of the mind which will impact those of you who prefer a battlemap. It might mean that we don't have the challenging tactical combat encounter I'd tried to set up for those of you who like to engage in strategy. It might mean you lose the opportunity to converse with the great and good of a town do those of you who wish to dabble in diplomacy lose out. So, while you can and are perfectly able to choose any direction in the game I would like to ask you all to be mindful that I usually prepare sessions in such a way to appeal to the different players around the table.'
It doesn't have to be quite that brutally worded but hopefully you understand what I mean. A lot of (especially newer players) don't realise this. It's a huge problem I've seen among video game players who are used to playing solo.
With that said, this group, doesn't work as a D&D group at all. The disrespect of messing with their phones during a social game is unacceptable and I've booted people from a table for just that what in person. Likewise, if you are the only one putting in the effort on the planning and direction of the game...it's not enough. I don't usually like suggesting it but I would seriously step away from this group. I'd suggest looking at what your FLGS has to offer, or even starting an online game and advertising for players here on D&D Beyond. You can use Discord or similar to see and hear each other, there's some great virtual tabletops out there (I Like owlbear.rodeo as it's free) and DDB has you covered for character sheets etc.
I'd also recommend taking the time to play in another DM's game. The reason for this is that you might just be able to find a good model for how to DM and how to set up games in the future.
I'm sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. I really hope it doesn't sour you on TTRPGs or D&D. The fact that you've reached out and asked for help and advice is probably what stand to make you a fantastic DM. I truly wish you the best no matter what happens next.
The most important thing for every DnD DM and player to learn is this:
No DnD is better than bad DnD.
The problem here is that you are not having fun. You can do whatever you like, but I suggest just... Not scheduling another session. If anyone asks to just say that you are not feeling it. You're not enjoying the game so you'd like to have a break.
IF THEY ASK why you are not enjoying it, then you can get into it, and if they are interested in playing then you will all learn and your game will be better than ever.
If they don't ask, then DON'T GIVE UP! We have ALL been there. You just need to find your people. They're out there. Maybe closer than you think.
It sounds like your players have "It's what my character would do," syndrome. That's all fine and good, but if characters that would do that are the PCs in your game, then your game isn't going anywhere. So they need to pick a character that would do something else, or compromise on their character and do something slightly different that is fun for them to play, but still moves the game forward.
That said, you could also adjust your expectations and take the game less seriously. The majority of your players just want to goof around. Maybe that's fine. But at the end of the day, if the DM isn't having fun, you won't have a game for long. So don't ask them what kind of game they want. Tell them what kind of game you want. And if you can't find a kind of game you'll both enjoy, break up the group, or maybe have someone else DM, if you'd want to play in the kind of game they want to run.
Uhh, Granted it's been a while since I made this post. Made a lot of strides and changes as both a player and a DM. Thanks, everyone here for your wonderful advice and suggestions. The update was that I ended up canceling the group. The mix wasn't great and in the end, it was my call to pull the plug. With the disrespect they continued to show me as a party and as friends, I decided it was best for all of our mental health to end it. Now I play with a group that works well for me and will continue to challenge myself as a still pretty new DM. Thank you all again! <3
Uhh, Granted it's been a while since I made this post. Made a lot of strides and changes as both a player and a DM. Thanks, everyone here for your wonderful advice and suggestions. The update was that I ended up canceling the group. The mix wasn't great and in the end, it was my call to pull the plug. With the disrespect they continued to show me as a party and as friends, I decided it was best for all of our mental health to end it. Now I play with a group that works well for me and will continue to challenge myself as a still pretty new DM. Thank you all again! <3
Good for you! Glad to hear that you were able to speak your mind and drop "bad DnD." I am also very proud that you were able to find a different group and not just stop playing all together. The community always needs good people like yourself, so it is great to see you keep on going!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I am 100% new to Dming. I decided to try my luck and run a story that I had spent a good deal of time on. I tried not to plan too much because I knew that sometimes the party would just do their own thing and I couldn't plan for everything. However, the group I am playing with is tiny. I started with 4, but one had issues with coming to game and I ended up having to ask them to leave. Of the three other players, however, I have two problem players. Both of these players are very close friends of mine, but since the start of the game all they seemed to care about is their romantic relationship with their characters. Now don't get me wrong, I am by no means against people wanting to rp love lives for their characters in game, but my problem relies on the fact that--its all they care about.
for example, My tiefling Ranger who plays their character like a rogue more than anything lol, is my most difficult player/character. The person who plays the character practically plays them as an *******. Case in point doesn't care about NPCs, doesn't care about major plot lines, just is more focused on themselves and their lover. (the other player). Pretty much if I give them a hint or tell them something big about the plot or something dramatic about the game itself all they react with is 'ok' with a very broad monotone. They are always on their phone during combat and just straight-up act board all the time or just doesn't want to react or do anything but stand there and look broody.
My other player is the jokester. They play a tiefling Druid who is supposed to be shy and sweet. However, they always make jokes at my expense when it comes to phrases I use or If i mispronounce a word. (I have dyslexia and sometimes I trip over myself when I talk) If they are not making fun of me they are saying something ooc about the game that's a joke. I'm not against joking or making funny quips at times but this is like a consistent thing and they don't take anything seriously at all in-game. This player will also have to be reminded constantly of things I say bc they were not paying attention to what I said the first time and I constantly have to repeat myself.
This being said I am at a loss of what to do. I've gone so far as to go to each character and tell them my issues and asked them what kind of game they want and they always come back with I don't know, or I don't care, or the game is fine. I've asked for feedback and they give me none. I ask if they would like me to change anything in-game and they say nothing. I've tried everything and at the end of the day I'm just at a loss. I don't have many friends and I love playing DnD so its difficult for me to just say F-it and leave. They don't care about the game just the rp aspect of a relationship between their two characters and nothing or no one else. I was at one point near my breaking-in where I almost told them that if they didn't come up with a reason to keep going that the game would end--but I hate confrontation and don't want to anger anyone but at this point, it's clearly not fun for me. This is mostly just for me to rant but if anyone has some good advice on what I could do to maybe get these two invested more in the game and less on each other. Please <3
At these point you have 2options
1) Adjust. Maybe sense 2 of your players only seem interested in their in-game relationship, so adjust your story to that, and figure out what your other player wants to do, and add it all to your story. Now if this isn’t fun for you then you might have go with the other option
2) tell your players you want them to focus on your story or you’ll stop DMing. Tell your players you aren’t enjoying the game and that you’d like them to focus on the game not their quirks they’ve chosen for their characters, you might even go as far as saying you’ll stop DMing if they can’t focus.
this isn’t an ideal situation, if they continue to act this way even after you tell them you need them to focus, then it’s time to bail. The game should be fun for everyone, not just the players.
I think the other problems are solvable, but this one is not. I'm not suggesting physical violence here, let me be very clear. But...
This person is not your friend. I think this should get (at MOST) a single, "Do that again, and I'm sending you to the curb. Seriously." The best reaction to their behavior is to give them 30 seconds to pack their dice and be out your front door.
We talk about inclusion and equality a lot here. Making fun of a speech impediment from 3 feet away should definitely result in that person learning a lesson immediately. At the very least, the opportunity to repeat the attack should not be allowed.
A personal attack is one of the few ways to lose at D&D.
Just a couple of comments ..
1) Instead of asking them what they want out of the game, you might want to start by asking them if they really want to play at all. I realize it is a tough question, these are your friends, you love D&D and want to play with them. However, it sounds like they may have said Yes to playing because they are your friends but instead of really playing they just sit at the table because they are "playing" because you asked and not because they want to. As a result, they aren't very invested. However, whatever they might answer, don't let it disrupt your friendship. D&D isn't a game everyone likes or can get into playing.
2) The person making "jokes" at your expense, making fun of dyslexia and the mistakes you might make, making "jokes" of how you run the game or comments you make isn't funny at all. Honestly, as ThatKert said, they aren't acting like a friend at all. They aren't making "jokes", they aren't funny. They are using verbal attacks at your expense where the only possible real goal is to hurt you, ostracize you, or just being a completely insensitive @#%^&. You might want to ask them to stop since it really isn't "friend" behavior.
3) None of us commenting are actually at your sessions so there could be a lot more going on that you haven't mentioned. This especially applies to outside of the game elements like the two players role playing a love interest .. does that reflect a real life relationship? How does that impact the game? Since D&D is a social game, social elements from the game and real life can often mix together and some of those can be the source of in game problems. e.g. You mentioned 3 players, 2 of which are roleplaying a relationship. How does the 3rd player feel about that? What does the 3rd player do while the other 2 characters are canoodling? Watching two characters get into role playing a relationship can range from fascinating to extremely uncomfortable to boring for anyone else in the game.
It sounds like your players aren't just not invested in your game, it sounds like they're not invested in DND, and not willing to get invested. I think this is just not the game for your friend group, and it might be best to lower the curtain on this campaign before it causes irl problems between you and your friends. Not every group can be a good dnd group. As Matt Coville says, "not every band is Rush."
The fact that you tried to have a discussion with them is good, that's what you're supposed to do in these scenarios. The fact that they replied with dismissal is also telling. If someone tells you that they don't care, listen. You're going to break your back trying to engage them and all you're going to have to show for it is a broken back, and they won't have noticed.
I would just tell them outright that you're thinking about ending the campaign because you're not having fun. Either the players will see that you were serious about all those attempted discussions they dismissed and try to have a conversation in good faith about how they could change the game so everyone is having fun (the DM is still a player and their fun still matters), or your players continue not to care and you find a new game to play on game night. No dnd is better than bad dnd.
As far as not having a game to play if this one folds, I think you'd find it easier to get a group to take a game seriously if you found a group to play dnd with (rather than seeing if your existing group wants to play dnd). You don't have to be friends already because it's a great way to get to know people. I would recommend reaching out through like a local comic book/hobby store, library, or local area dnd Facebook group (I found my current group just by googling [my city name] Dungeons and Dragons after I'd just moved here, and after a few games with randos I settled on a group that went on to become most of my friends in this area), and finding a group with the mutual understanding that you're here to play dnd, and build up from there.
Otherwise you could find a game online through one of the many LFG boards (of which Dnd Beyond has one) and go from there. But if you're one of the many who prefers in-person, your best bet is probably to hit up your local comic shops and ask at the desk if anybody's running a game there and if it's joinable.
I think you are focusing in the wrong aspects of your campaign good sir!, for me the actual issue is that you are disregarding the game your players are enjoying and focusing in what you want to do, as a DM I understand that creating a setting, background, npc's, etc is tiresome and you want your players to enjoy the story you created for them as much as you enjoy it or you would enjoy it if you were playing but to may point of view, D&D 101, forget about yourself as a player because you are not, you are a DM because you have the mentality and versatility to mix in those weird paths your players take to your main story. If your player are completely focused on their "Love Relationship" then have them suffer to keep their Love afloat, have one be kidnapped, put them in a tight spot, Do you want real feedback? You are the one in charge of the plot but the story is constructed by your players while playing, let them, you are the DM, D&D DM guide book is for you to reference, not to follow word by word what the book is telling you, you as the DM and your players have millions of possibilities.
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
I very much disagree with this post. If the question in the original post was "how do I keep my players on track?" then I would suggest being more open to what the players want and incorporate it into the game, but when the OP says that they are actively not having fun, I don't think the answer is to disregard their own enjoyment and change everything about their game so they're having less fun.
"You're wrong for being made uncomfortable by this" is also a pretty questionable take. Your attitude can be your attitude, but if OP tells us this bothers them, it's not our business to explain why they're "wrong".
Some people are made comfortable by good-natured ribbing, but as we're not at OP's table, we have no way of knowing if OP is one of those people, or if this ribbing is in face just friendly banter.
That's the point. The people at my table aren't digging at a disability. There are jokes, but if they go too far or are too pointed, that stops very quickly. That doesn't happen automatically. It stops because people end it.
No, friends aren't automatically allowed to do something that hurts you. This is 2022, and many people are fighting for that stuff to end.
I get what you say but don't understand why you would disagree with the post, the title Literally says "New DM and already burned out", meaning he is tired of trying to have his players follow the story as he wrote it which at the end of the day disregards the freedom the players would have. I want to believe that being a DM means been able to modify your story (Setting) either add content or remove it as the adventure progresses which in this case he is not fully doing.
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
Yes but the DM isn't describing a situation where the players are just too interested in one aspect of the game. The DM is describing a situation where the players care about nothing in-game, have no motivation to be adventurers (having motivation is a critical component of the gaming social contact, because if everyone sits down to play and one player says 'actually I'm gonna be a farmer--hey don't leave me behind just because I'm not conforming to what the DM wants!' that's called disrupting the game), and they're not trying to take part in anything. From a roleplay perspective, it is possible to be in a relationship and also care about the world around them-- literally everyone does that all the time-- so their lack of engagement with any other part of the game isn't them just "not being into the story", it's lazy and to me comes off as disrespectful when the DM has multiple times asked what they could do to make the game more accommodating to them and the players keep saying "I don't care it's all good."
Basically if you asked me what I wanted to eat and I said pp&j, and you made me a pp&j and I left it on the plate in front of me and ignored it week after week, and you asked me if something was wrong with it and I kept insisting "no it's fine, it's great" but never gave it a second glance, I don't think it would be fair to say that it's your fault for giving me the wrong sandwich. And I think it would be understandable if you didn't want to eat with me anymore.
Right, I get that and you are half correct, your job as a DM is have the players engaged in the game, to do so you have to be open to whatever the players want to do, we are not only talking about a new DM but also pretty new D&D players. Is one thing to know about D&D, role-play, etc. and another thing is playing it, different factors are involved like shyness for example, of course they wont care because they don't really know how to play. Give me this response when you have a party of people that are veteran player, not even veteran, acquainted with D&D is enough to have players who know how to focus in the game and follow along the DM's story line. If you have new players you have to give them the ability to do what they want, new players will never play according to the rules or the DM's wishes and it might not even be for their attitude is because they lack a lot of knowledge about the game itself. It's been 4/5 sessions so far, they have enjoyed the game as is because they are constructing the story, I'm not saying the DM is wrong, I'm saying the DM is the teacher and if the DM does not know how to handle each player's characteristics and personality then the DM will never have a full table nor a full campaign. A DM is worthless without players and I'm not saying this to be complacent with the players and do everything as they want it done. The DM works with people and has to stir their imagination so that the players can immerse and enjoy the game and if they are not able to do so with the intervention of the DM then they will do it by themselves which it seems is happening in this case and no, I don't mean its the DM's fault, its both, players and DM.
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
If this were just a group of people who got together to form a dnd group, newness notwithstanding, I think you would have more of a point. But I see red flags when I hear that the DM is the one who likes dnd, the players are close friends of the DM but don't appear to care about the game, one is on his phone all the time and disinterested in the actual game, and the other is picking on the DM's insecurities while they're trying to run. That sounds to me like a classic case of one person offering to run because they really want to play with their friends, and they're friends humoring them, barely. It sounds unpleasant, and the DM might not have even been aware that they were the only one who actually wants to play.
Now, as stated in the first comment, OP certainly has the option to try and fix it by steering into the players' behavior, but that comment stipulates that even that might not work. That's the important distinction. It *could* be the DM's fault for focusing on the wrong aspects of the game, but I think where your original comment went wrong was in not acknowledging that the situation might have risen through no fault of the DMs, and by ignoring that the DM is already unhappy with the game, and leaning more into what makes them unhappy might not be a good solution.
However, you do raise a good point. Sometimes this is just how new players act, because no other game lets them have the kind of freedom you have in a ttrpg. I wouldn't say that's a mark in favor of continuing to try to salvage the game. If anything it shows that OP and the players clearly want different things out of the game, and sort of leaves OP's solution as just "play with them and be unhappy until they develope more as players." There is no knowing how long that might take, and I don't think it's the OP's responsibility to babysit then.
Again, maybe this is the DM not running the game the players wanna play, but the point is we don't know, so saying "you're focusing on the wrong thing" with any kind of certainty seems like potentially harmful advice if it does happen that, as context suggests, the players are just not into the game. The DM *could* work really really hard to try and save the game and it could be rewarding, but based off the context it doesn't sound very salvageable to me, and trying could be a very arduous, unpleasant, and thankless task.
Yeah, I get what you say because I believe you are totally correct, you were able to convey my thoughts in a better way than I was able to as I was not able to put it into words as I wanted, thus the part "You are focusing in the wrong thing" was supposed to be interpreted as "Have a serious conversation with the players but as a group and not as an individual" and expose to them that all the effort that was made to get them an enjoyable game is useless due to their behavior and advance from there, but as you said, nobody is playing D&D to babysit anybody, that's for sure because at the end of the day as a DM you enjoy the game while watching your Players grow and evolve alongside the story and is not happening for this campaign and if after a serious conversation with them as a group nothing changes then make the decision to either stop the campaign as it is or keep on going.
Pain is not to be afraid of but to learn from its teachings.
These maybe your friends but they are toxic gamers. See if you can hit the local game store for open games or adventure league. Don't play D&D with these people. Still invite them to Taco Tuesday and bad movie Friday.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
So, one of the most difficult lessons to learn for me what that a DM's desires aren't the focus of the story in a game like D&D.
The best way I can phrase it is that the world is essentially a sandbox you are creating for the players to explore and shape. The story belongs to the group.
What that means in practice is that sometimes players are going to fail to recognise the work you put in as a DM and just ignore the quest hooks that you've laid down. Being able to adapt and go with that is the skill of improvisation. Sadly, I think many DMs will recognise that parties that ignore our quest hooks are going to get the less optimal experience. So I shout that out now at session zeros.
'I prepare a session by creating quest hooks and scenarios for you all to encounter. That often means I create maps and set up encounters ahead of time to prepare. While you can do anything you wish within the rules, I'd like to make sure that everyone realises that by ignoring quest hooks and suggested activity for the party you'll get a materially less polished experience. It might mean reverting solely to theatre of the mind which will impact those of you who prefer a battlemap. It might mean that we don't have the challenging tactical combat encounter I'd tried to set up for those of you who like to engage in strategy. It might mean you lose the opportunity to converse with the great and good of a town do those of you who wish to dabble in diplomacy lose out. So, while you can and are perfectly able to choose any direction in the game I would like to ask you all to be mindful that I usually prepare sessions in such a way to appeal to the different players around the table.'
It doesn't have to be quite that brutally worded but hopefully you understand what I mean. A lot of (especially newer players) don't realise this. It's a huge problem I've seen among video game players who are used to playing solo.
With that said, this group, doesn't work as a D&D group at all. The disrespect of messing with their phones during a social game is unacceptable and I've booted people from a table for just that what in person. Likewise, if you are the only one putting in the effort on the planning and direction of the game...it's not enough. I don't usually like suggesting it but I would seriously step away from this group. I'd suggest looking at what your FLGS has to offer, or even starting an online game and advertising for players here on D&D Beyond. You can use Discord or similar to see and hear each other, there's some great virtual tabletops out there (I Like owlbear.rodeo as it's free) and DDB has you covered for character sheets etc.
I'd also recommend taking the time to play in another DM's game. The reason for this is that you might just be able to find a good model for how to DM and how to set up games in the future.
I'm sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. I really hope it doesn't sour you on TTRPGs or D&D. The fact that you've reached out and asked for help and advice is probably what stand to make you a fantastic DM. I truly wish you the best no matter what happens next.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
The most important thing for every DnD DM and player to learn is this:
No DnD is better than bad DnD.
The problem here is that you are not having fun. You can do whatever you like, but I suggest just... Not scheduling another session. If anyone asks to just say that you are not feeling it. You're not enjoying the game so you'd like to have a break.
IF THEY ASK why you are not enjoying it, then you can get into it, and if they are interested in playing then you will all learn and your game will be better than ever.
If they don't ask, then DON'T GIVE UP! We have ALL been there. You just need to find your people. They're out there. Maybe closer than you think.
It sounds like your players have "It's what my character would do," syndrome. That's all fine and good, but if characters that would do that are the PCs in your game, then your game isn't going anywhere. So they need to pick a character that would do something else, or compromise on their character and do something slightly different that is fun for them to play, but still moves the game forward.
That said, you could also adjust your expectations and take the game less seriously. The majority of your players just want to goof around. Maybe that's fine. But at the end of the day, if the DM isn't having fun, you won't have a game for long. So don't ask them what kind of game they want. Tell them what kind of game you want. And if you can't find a kind of game you'll both enjoy, break up the group, or maybe have someone else DM, if you'd want to play in the kind of game they want to run.
Uhh, Granted it's been a while since I made this post. Made a lot of strides and changes as both a player and a DM. Thanks, everyone here for your wonderful advice and suggestions. The update was that I ended up canceling the group. The mix wasn't great and in the end, it was my call to pull the plug. With the disrespect they continued to show me as a party and as friends, I decided it was best for all of our mental health to end it. Now I play with a group that works well for me and will continue to challenge myself as a still pretty new DM. Thank you all again! <3
Good for you! Glad to hear that you were able to speak your mind and drop "bad DnD." I am also very proud that you were able to find a different group and not just stop playing all together. The community always needs good people like yourself, so it is great to see you keep on going!