So in my homebrew campaign while my players were Level 5 they found a orb flecked with fire following a dungeon crawl, this was to serve as the first plot hook in to the campaigns main villain. Once they exited the cave the BBEG (A death Knight) appeared, told them they had something they wanted, killed one of the characters (they wanted a new character anyway, this was all agreed) and made off with the orb.
Fast forward 3 levels and they've just found another orb within a deep dragons treasure hoard this time flecked with frost. They all recognised this as another orb similar to the other one they found so all were going to avoid it... EXCEPT, my parties devil/fiend obsessed Warlock who picked it straight up, the image of the Death Knight flared up in his mind, he took a bunch of frost damage and was paralysed. The party wrapped it up and plopped it in the bag of holding realising it was dangerous.
Now.... here comes my problem I know my parties warlock won't want to just leave it or hand it over to somewhere to be guarded or hidden. He will want to try and use it. (The orbs are basically going to be Palantir style stones and there will be 4 that when combined can bring Orcus back to the material plane, who the death knight is serving) so this will definitely bring the attention of the Death Knight and his minions and lead them straight to him. How do I point out that this is a really bad idea. I feel I have already given them plenty of in game warning with what happened with the first orb and the fact the Death Knights face appeared when he first touched it.
Should I give an out of game "Are you sure you want to do this?" warning or just go along with the "**** around and find out" approach....
TL;DR: My parties Devil obsessed Warlock is almost certainly going to use a dangerous orb with plenty of warning and is almost certainly going to bring the attention of a Death Knight on himself..
I might agree that you've given the player a firm warning of danger. Offering them an eyebrow crooked "Are you sure you wanna do this?" is effectively the same as FA-FO, but with one last opportunity to think through their choices.
Just a thought, you've only focused on this Warlock, what about the rest of the party? Has the party sensed anything different since the collection of the Orb, or has the Warlock said anything about the vision in their head? Is there any in-game reason for the other PCs to intervene in this, or is the Warlock out there solo on this? If the party is given an in-game opportunity to act, they might. Also, the orb was protected by a deep dragon's lair, which the party just removed the inhabitants from the ecology. What's protecting the orb if they put it back? Someone has to prevent the Death Knight from getting the Orb, who in your world is better poised to do that task?
In the end, the Orb's existence is a threat, in that it is a key required to open a lock. The interested parties will do what they need to gather said key. The party is, I'm assuming here, suddenly charged with preventing the BBE from getting the Orb, preventing the lock from being opened, as it were. Let them come up with a solution. Give them a way to solve this, but allow the party to solve the puzzle. They aren't guaranteed success, but you can give them the opportunity to f3@K-around and find out.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Personally, I would ask the Warlock's player if they're sure they want to use the orb, mentioning the result of the previous magic orb they encountered. If they're sure, just follow through with the consequences, but make sure the other players aren't punished too harshly for the actions of the Warlock.
If a player wants to proceed with an obviously bad idea, and they know it's a bad idea, I would show them the consequences.
something to consider is that Orcus is a demon and demons don't get along with devils. you might educate your warlock player that their character would likely understand that point already. if their patron is a demon/fiend rather than a devil as i'm assuming, then that's not a big deal either. does that patron even like Orcus? if the patron, devil or demon, doesn't like Orcus then there's a chance they'll have a reason to speak up: dream, messenger, warlock's hand's skin peeling painfully back to reveal bone (which might even catch fire too, why not, when close enough) if ever they reach for the orb, etc.
alternatively, lean into the character's actions. warlock sneaks around and steals the orb? okay. now Orcus wants them to do some things to defy that warlock's patron, to weaken it. Orcus promises to become their new patron if only they'll knock over a few altars and light a candle on a few others. during this time their warlock powers might sometimes sputter out and fail without warning. other times they might spout out an additional eldritch blast. perhaps sometimes a few surprised mephits are summoned and begin attacking anyone and everyone. the warlock can do this secretly from the party but the DM should make it clear that this could cause the old patron to become a powerful enemy of the party (without their knowing). also, importantly, Orcus doesn't have to keep his word and the death knight wouldn't refrain from backstabbing either.
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Hot take: I don't think it's a bad idea to use the orb. Let 'em.
Just because it might gain the Death Knight's attention doesn't necessarily mean he must come and murder the party to retrieve it. Maybe the orb slowly corrupts the user, and that suits the knight. Maybe he sends minions to recapture it. Maybe he does swing by in a show of overwhelming force, but straight up tears the orb out of the warlock's hand and thanks him for the help. There are a million different ways you can play this as a DM that don't have to involve the party dying. You're the storyteller, here - what will tell a better story?
If you think the party is invested in the quest now, imagine how much more personal it will be if things get worse because they screwed up. The best you can do is give them clues that there will be consequences. It's up to them whether or not they take them seriously. And it's up to you to decide how the story progresses from there. You are never trapped as a DM.
The suggestion above i think is the most reasonable from where i sit. Punishment to that player, including death, is always on the cards as well so long as the player is either not attached to their character or it is reasonable for them to be brought back to life. Having the player also suffer corruption at points in fights, having the player become exhausted by the mental torment it causes, having the death knight come in and attack him looking for the orb and beating him to near death only to take it and force the party to get stronger and go fight him to save the world, there are many different directions you can change the story, so maybe consider flexing into an option that best suits your party if it doesn't take your fun away.
I'd have the warlock's patron contact him in a nightmare each time he comes into contact with the orb and punish him (no long rest bonuses that night). As above devil's and demons don't play nice but even if you don't want to cover that it doesn't mean your particular homebrew patron wants to see Orcus returned to power. There could be loads of reasons two powerful evil beings might feud.
Another thing to consider: adding McGuffins to the game for the purpose of your party discovering; and then getting told to hand over or die, don't make for very satisfying gameplay. One was good in that it set the tone and the other player agreed to have their character killed off. Two would move that from "shock & awe" to annoying pretty fast, imho. The warlock probably wants to affect change or meaning into the story, rather than "here's another artefact that the DM will kill us if we touch".
I'm not necessarily saying it's being done on purpose, but definitely consider alternatives, as the other posters have suggested above.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
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So in my homebrew campaign while my players were Level 5 they found a orb flecked with fire following a dungeon crawl, this was to serve as the first plot hook in to the campaigns main villain. Once they exited the cave the BBEG (A death Knight) appeared, told them they had something they wanted, killed one of the characters (they wanted a new character anyway, this was all agreed) and made off with the orb.
Fast forward 3 levels and they've just found another orb within a deep dragons treasure hoard this time flecked with frost. They all recognised this as another orb similar to the other one they found so all were going to avoid it... EXCEPT, my parties devil/fiend obsessed Warlock who picked it straight up, the image of the Death Knight flared up in his mind, he took a bunch of frost damage and was paralysed. The party wrapped it up and plopped it in the bag of holding realising it was dangerous.
Now.... here comes my problem I know my parties warlock won't want to just leave it or hand it over to somewhere to be guarded or hidden. He will want to try and use it. (The orbs are basically going to be Palantir style stones and there will be 4 that when combined can bring Orcus back to the material plane, who the death knight is serving) so this will definitely bring the attention of the Death Knight and his minions and lead them straight to him. How do I point out that this is a really bad idea. I feel I have already given them plenty of in game warning with what happened with the first orb and the fact the Death Knights face appeared when he first touched it.
Should I give an out of game "Are you sure you want to do this?" warning or just go along with the "**** around and find out" approach....
TL;DR: My parties Devil obsessed Warlock is almost certainly going to use a dangerous orb with plenty of warning and is almost certainly going to bring the attention of a Death Knight on himself..
I might agree that you've given the player a firm warning of danger. Offering them an eyebrow crooked "Are you sure you wanna do this?" is effectively the same as FA-FO, but with one last opportunity to think through their choices.
Just a thought, you've only focused on this Warlock, what about the rest of the party? Has the party sensed anything different since the collection of the Orb, or has the Warlock said anything about the vision in their head? Is there any in-game reason for the other PCs to intervene in this, or is the Warlock out there solo on this? If the party is given an in-game opportunity to act, they might. Also, the orb was protected by a deep dragon's lair, which the party just removed the inhabitants from the ecology. What's protecting the orb if they put it back? Someone has to prevent the Death Knight from getting the Orb, who in your world is better poised to do that task?
In the end, the Orb's existence is a threat, in that it is a key required to open a lock. The interested parties will do what they need to gather said key. The party is, I'm assuming here, suddenly charged with preventing the BBE from getting the Orb, preventing the lock from being opened, as it were. Let them come up with a solution. Give them a way to solve this, but allow the party to solve the puzzle. They aren't guaranteed success, but you can give them the opportunity to f3@K-around and find out.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Personally, I would ask the Warlock's player if they're sure they want to use the orb, mentioning the result of the previous magic orb they encountered. If they're sure, just follow through with the consequences, but make sure the other players aren't punished too harshly for the actions of the Warlock.
If a player wants to proceed with an obviously bad idea, and they know it's a bad idea, I would show them the consequences.
[REDACTED]
something to consider is that Orcus is a demon and demons don't get along with devils. you might educate your warlock player that their character would likely understand that point already. if their patron is a demon/fiend rather than a devil as i'm assuming, then that's not a big deal either. does that patron even like Orcus? if the patron, devil or demon, doesn't like Orcus then there's a chance they'll have a reason to speak up: dream, messenger, warlock's hand's skin peeling painfully back to reveal bone (which might even catch fire too, why not, when close enough) if ever they reach for the orb, etc.
alternatively, lean into the character's actions. warlock sneaks around and steals the orb? okay. now Orcus wants them to do some things to defy that warlock's patron, to weaken it. Orcus promises to become their new patron if only they'll knock over a few altars and light a candle on a few others. during this time their warlock powers might sometimes sputter out and fail without warning. other times they might spout out an additional eldritch blast. perhaps sometimes a few surprised mephits are summoned and begin attacking anyone and everyone. the warlock can do this secretly from the party but the DM should make it clear that this could cause the old patron to become a powerful enemy of the party (without their knowing). also, importantly, Orcus doesn't have to keep his word and the death knight wouldn't refrain from backstabbing either.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Hot take: I don't think it's a bad idea to use the orb. Let 'em.
Just because it might gain the Death Knight's attention doesn't necessarily mean he must come and murder the party to retrieve it. Maybe the orb slowly corrupts the user, and that suits the knight. Maybe he sends minions to recapture it. Maybe he does swing by in a show of overwhelming force, but straight up tears the orb out of the warlock's hand and thanks him for the help. There are a million different ways you can play this as a DM that don't have to involve the party dying. You're the storyteller, here - what will tell a better story?
If you think the party is invested in the quest now, imagine how much more personal it will be if things get worse because they screwed up. The best you can do is give them clues that there will be consequences. It's up to them whether or not they take them seriously. And it's up to you to decide how the story progresses from there. You are never trapped as a DM.
The suggestion above i think is the most reasonable from where i sit. Punishment to that player, including death, is always on the cards as well so long as the player is either not attached to their character or it is reasonable for them to be brought back to life. Having the player also suffer corruption at points in fights, having the player become exhausted by the mental torment it causes, having the death knight come in and attack him looking for the orb and beating him to near death only to take it and force the party to get stronger and go fight him to save the world, there are many different directions you can change the story, so maybe consider flexing into an option that best suits your party if it doesn't take your fun away.
I'd have the warlock's patron contact him in a nightmare each time he comes into contact with the orb and punish him (no long rest bonuses that night). As above devil's and demons don't play nice but even if you don't want to cover that it doesn't mean your particular homebrew patron wants to see Orcus returned to power. There could be loads of reasons two powerful evil beings might feud.
Another thing to consider: adding McGuffins to the game for the purpose of your party discovering; and then getting told to hand over or die, don't make for very satisfying gameplay. One was good in that it set the tone and the other player agreed to have their character killed off. Two would move that from "shock & awe" to annoying pretty fast, imho. The warlock probably wants to affect change or meaning into the story, rather than "here's another artefact that the DM will kill us if we touch".
I'm not necessarily saying it's being done on purpose, but definitely consider alternatives, as the other posters have suggested above.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?