Imma go off on a tangent 'cause my brain is not firing on full yet.
I note that in 5e, the Wish spell has no material components, no somatic components, and that despite this, it is an intensely stressful spell to cast. Drops strength to 3, if you cast a 3rd level spell before resting you take 3d10 damage, you have to just stop for at least 2 days, possibly a week.
Not a spell I would cast in combat, myself. Not unless I was certain that I wouldn't be killed in the aftermath of doing so, because per the rules, basically, all you can do without hurting yourself is stand there and look pretty.
Now, a lot of folks have mentioned how in 5e Wishes aren't DM playgrounds like they wwere in 1e.
In double checking, I note that this isn't accurate:
State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
They don't use some of the more extreme examples, and the early examples of "how to use a wish" are pretty mundane (ooh, immunity for 8 hours to a certain kind of attack! Yay!).
One of my favorite mechanics around the function of a wish was used in a novel not too long ago. In it, the djinn are basically unable to lie. Not because they cannot tell a falsehood, but because in the context of that world, whatever they speak *can only be the truth*.
So, for example, one might ask them to say that you will become fabulously wealthy and live to a ripe old age with many joyous days. if they said it, that became truth, and thus changed reality around it -- for reality is the truth, in this construct.
(they apparently are not big on RPG in djinn circles, I guess)
Because djinn were hunted, and sought out, sometimes even captured and tortured for this, they would sometimes word selfish requests and *reality* would alter in a way that was not the favorable outcome sought -- and generally speaking, outcomes are rarely favorable because things were always cause and effect based. Wish for wealth, and find yourself a successful thief, and so forth.
That kind of system -- where the Wish is a truth so staggering that it drains a Mortal -- creates a very different set of circumstances.
Ok, thanks, just me being me and thinking out loud about stuff -- I do that.
I thought this was insightful. Gives another look at the system of wish and reality bending
If you focus on the phrase, "the greater the wish, the greater the chance it has to go wrong", then I think it makes sense to consider the lore behind the source we call Mystra. Mystra banned casting spells above 9th level after Karsus cast a 10th level spell to slay her and become the new god of magic. The power/knowledge, etc... that Karsus took on proved to be too much for him and if my memory serves it basically killed him. Mystra is then somehow restored, but not before the fall of the floating Netherese cities. Well, at least that is the gist of it anyway. If you are not yet familier with this, I recommend looking up Karsus's Folly for some older lore that still impacts even 5e today.
The point I am getting at is that a wish is technically capable of casting a spell that would otherwise be considered a greater than 9th level spell. So when thinking about whether the spell should be, or is likely to be altered by the DM or not, consider what level spell does it kind of represent. If it represents a lower than 9th level, then it is generally little to no risk of the DM altering it. If it is instead valued as a 9th level spell, then there is likely some risk, and if it is valued as a greater than 9th level then there is significant risk.
I think that this makes sense as part of the design of the weave and Mystra's ban against higher spells. Wish may be a way around it, but only to a limited degree. Lastly, if it were my game, I would even say that if the wish is too great, that success or failure, it catches the attention of Mystra or at least one of her daughters, and there may be something to play out there in game later.
Examples of spells I believe to be greater than 9th level would be:
To become a god. To kill a god. To cause immediate genocide against any race/species (good, neutral, evil I think is irrelevant here) To create a new world. To destroy a world. Etc...
I think that this wish is entirely reasonable. The only time to use the whole "Monkey's Paw" legal catch-me is to safeguard against total rug-pulling unreasonable uses of the spell e.g. "I wish the BBEG was dead" *Time fast-forwards until he is, having succeeded his reign of terror* etc.
In this case, I view this as 1) a very reasonable request (check) 2) pretty easy to interpret and employ fairly (check) 3) fairly easy to mechanically adjudicate the outcome in a way that is "fair" to the player (and calibrate behind the screen however you wish - check check): in this case something like this feels to me to both inherit the spirit of the request, as well as its potential pitfalls pretty succinctly;
Grant the wish. Have him make his speech, (you can rule he is speaking as with the tongues spell or not, your choice), whereby people will hear and respond to it as their own free will would dictate which necessitates maybe 2 rolls: You roll a Percentile Dice to see how many are actually reached without issue (and can/would respond toit), and then give a fair multiplier based on that, or a graduated DC (5 - minor success, probably little to no impact, 10 - reasonable expectation those already aligned will agree to the plea, ie. those that would but were hampered by the espionage counterops, 15 - gets those of 10 and "persuades" an additional number of people 20 - like 15 but greater, 25 - maybe some heroic allies, like king's cavalry, or high level casters etc...)
Again, the above is just an off the cuff response on how to adjudicate with actual dice the outcome, but the wish itself seems entirely reasonable, and the outcome is entirely up to DM Fiat to begin with; I mean, whose to say he doesnt succeed, but the people just cant rally in time? Maybe you get 1 cadre of armed guards teleported there by the King's command to his high arcanist...etc. If something is presented that reasonably, and can be fiddled with "fairly" through fiat to give them the moment they want but not break the game, absolutely give them what they want...if something needs to fall on the other side of the scales to counterbalance it...well, it doesnt need to be stated that was more of a post-hoc reaction to the wish succeeding...its just a heroic moment
(e.g. gets a great persuasion role, here's a message of sending from the high-cleric of the temple of Bahamut saying they are sending their wyvern-guard to aid them. Portals open in Infinity War style; mounted riders begin pouring out, trumpets blare, clarion call answered, heroes cheer...suddenly, the BBEG throws open the doors to his lair and sends out his own abominable flying creatures to deal with the *new* threat, massive aerial battle ensues all around them as they ascend the mountain. You can over-the-table tell them that as a consequence THEY dont have to sneak or fight the flying aboms because of the wish...even if there never would have...and if that feels tacky, in spite of the fact that you basically just turned the Wish into cinematic set-dressing, have one of two of the "good" riders land and offer up some boon sent by the King that was galvanized to act to give them SOMETHING actually tangible for using a 9th level spell...literally so many ways to take this and turn it into EXACTLY the amount of benefit you feel is appropriate for your encounter and the use of a 9th level spell cast in good faith. 100% allow it)
The point of Wish isn't to pull a "monkey's paw" on the player casting it.
Eh, depends on the edition. It was absolutely the point in AD&D.
Nope :) ... very very table dependent ... and never explicitly the point of the spell. Here is the text of the AD&D wish spell:
"Wish (Conjuration/Summoning) Level: 9 Range: Unlimited Duration: Special Area of Effect: Special Components: V Casting Time: Special Saving Throw: Special Explanation/Description: The wish spell is a more potent version of a limited wish (q.v.). If it is used to alter reality with respect to hit points sustained by a party, to bring a dead character to life, or to escape from a difficult situation by lifting the spell caster (and his or her party) from one place to another, it will not cause the magic-user any disability. Other forms of wishes, however, will cause the spell caster to be weak (-3 on strength) and require 2 to 8 days of bed rest due to the stresses the wish places upon time, space, and his or her body. Regardless of what is wished for, the exact terminology of the wish spell is likely to be carried through. (This discretionary power of the referee is necessary in order to maintain game balance. As wishing another character dead would be grossly unfair, for example, your DM might well advance the spell caster to a future period where the object is no longer alive, i.e. putting the wishing character out of the campaign.)"
The spell does not cause the caster "any disability". It also says that the wording of the wish is likely to be carried through using the "exact terminology" (i.e. literally) but that this is a "discretionary power" intended to maintain game balance. i.e. An abusive use of Wish is likely to cause problems.
The "exact terminology" lead to folks trying to try to create lawyer-like iron clad wishes and the DM trying to subvert them .. but the entire point was supposed to be discretionary and in aid of game balance rather than player vs DM conflict on wording and effect.
If you focus on the phrase, "the greater the wish, the greater the chance it has to go wrong", then I think it makes sense to consider the lore behind the source we call Mystra. Mystra banned casting spells above 9th level after Karsus cast a 10th level spell to slay her and become the new god of magic. The power/knowledge, etc... that Karsus took on proved to be too much for him and if my memory serves it basically killed him. Mystra is then somehow restored, but not before the fall of the floating Netherese cities. Well, at least that is the gist of it anyway. If you are not yet familier with this, I recommend looking up Karsus's Folly for some older lore that still impacts even 5e today.
The point I am getting at is that a wish is technically capable of casting a spell that would otherwise be considered a greater than 9th level spell. So when thinking about whether the spell should be, or is likely to be altered by the DM or not, consider what level spell does it kind of represent. If it represents a lower than 9th level, then it is generally little to no risk of the DM altering it. If it is instead valued as a 9th level spell, then there is likely some risk, and if it is valued as a greater than 9th level then there is significant risk.
I think that this makes sense as part of the design of the weave and Mystra's ban against higher spells. Wish may be a way around it, but only to a limited degree. Lastly, if it were my game, I would even say that if the wish is too great, that success or failure, it catches the attention of Mystra or at least one of her daughters, and there may be something to play out there in game later.
Examples of spells I believe to be greater than 9th level would be:
To become a god.
To kill a god.
To cause immediate genocide against any race/species (good, neutral, evil I think is irrelevant here)
To create a new world.
To destroy a world.
Etc...
I think that this wish is entirely reasonable. The only time to use the whole "Monkey's Paw" legal catch-me is to safeguard against total rug-pulling unreasonable uses of the spell e.g. "I wish the BBEG was dead" *Time fast-forwards until he is, having succeeded his reign of terror* etc.
In this case, I view this as 1) a very reasonable request (check) 2) pretty easy to interpret and employ fairly (check) 3) fairly easy to mechanically adjudicate the outcome in a way that is "fair" to the player (and calibrate behind the screen however you wish - check check): in this case something like this feels to me to both inherit the spirit of the request, as well as its potential pitfalls pretty succinctly;
Grant the wish. Have him make his speech, (you can rule he is speaking as with the tongues spell or not, your choice), whereby people will hear and respond to it as their own free will would dictate which necessitates maybe 2 rolls: You roll a Percentile Dice to see how many are actually reached without issue (and can/would respond toit), and then give a fair multiplier based on that, or a graduated DC (5 - minor success, probably little to no impact, 10 - reasonable expectation those already aligned will agree to the plea, ie. those that would but were hampered by the espionage counterops, 15 - gets those of 10 and "persuades" an additional number of people 20 - like 15 but greater, 25 - maybe some heroic allies, like king's cavalry, or high level casters etc...)
Again, the above is just an off the cuff response on how to adjudicate with actual dice the outcome, but the wish itself seems entirely reasonable, and the outcome is entirely up to DM Fiat to begin with; I mean, whose to say he doesnt succeed, but the people just cant rally in time? Maybe you get 1 cadre of armed guards teleported there by the King's command to his high arcanist...etc. If something is presented that reasonably, and can be fiddled with "fairly" through fiat to give them the moment they want but not break the game, absolutely give them what they want...if something needs to fall on the other side of the scales to counterbalance it...well, it doesnt need to be stated that was more of a post-hoc reaction to the wish succeeding...its just a heroic moment
(e.g. gets a great persuasion role, here's a message of sending from the high-cleric of the temple of Bahamut saying they are sending their wyvern-guard to aid them. Portals open in Infinity War style; mounted riders begin pouring out, trumpets blare, clarion call answered, heroes cheer...suddenly, the BBEG throws open the doors to his lair and sends out his own abominable flying creatures to deal with the *new* threat, massive aerial battle ensues all around them as they ascend the mountain. You can over-the-table tell them that as a consequence THEY dont have to sneak or fight the flying aboms because of the wish...even if there never would have...and if that feels tacky, in spite of the fact that you basically just turned the Wish into cinematic set-dressing, have one of two of the "good" riders land and offer up some boon sent by the King that was galvanized to act to give them SOMETHING actually tangible for using a 9th level spell...literally so many ways to take this and turn it into EXACTLY the amount of benefit you feel is appropriate for your encounter and the use of a 9th level spell cast in good faith. 100% allow it)
Nope :) ... very very table dependent ... and never explicitly the point of the spell. Here is the text of the AD&D wish spell:
"Wish (Conjuration/Summoning)
Level: 9
Range: Unlimited
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: Special
Components: V
Casting Time: Special
Saving Throw: Special
Explanation/Description: The wish spell is a more potent version of a limited wish (q.v.). If it is used to alter reality with respect to hit points sustained by a party, to bring a dead character to life, or to escape from a difficult situation by lifting the spell caster (and his or her party) from one place to another, it will not cause the magic-user any disability. Other forms of wishes, however, will cause the spell caster to be weak (-3 on strength) and require 2 to 8 days of bed rest due to the stresses the wish places upon time, space, and his or her body. Regardless of what is wished for, the exact terminology of the wish spell is likely to be carried through. (This discretionary power of the referee is necessary in order to maintain game balance. As wishing another character dead would be grossly unfair, for example, your DM might well advance the spell caster to a future period where the object is no longer alive, i.e. putting the wishing character out of the campaign.)"
The spell does not cause the caster "any disability". It also says that the wording of the wish is likely to be carried through using the "exact terminology" (i.e. literally) but that this is a "discretionary power" intended to maintain game balance. i.e. An abusive use of Wish is likely to cause problems.
The "exact terminology" lead to folks trying to try to create lawyer-like iron clad wishes and the DM trying to subvert them .. but the entire point was supposed to be discretionary and in aid of game balance rather than player vs DM conflict on wording and effect.
I would allow it.
I might mess with it, but I would certainly allow them to at least try.