Quote from SerLoxy >>

In one of my settings I had five gods on the Prime Material Plane. Instead of clear domains, they had personal qualities, personalaties, expertises and interests. These overlapped a bit too. 

Basically all of the gods had similar powers, which seeemed like omnipotency to mortals. In truth, not all gods able to do the same things, because they didn't have the skills. 

I had a sort of a god of magic, who was able to create passive magical bloodlines (sorcerers) and create ways for mortals to use magic (wizard spells and bard songs). He was also a god of arts. 

The "goddess of nature" was just heavily into biology and nature etc, and her biggest achievement as a god was evolution. She was also the only one able to passively prolong someone's life. Other gods had to actively keep their followers alive. 

The god of crafts had a love for minerals and a great understanding of all handyworks. His masterwork included the manacrystals that mortalkind used for magic and electricity. 

There was a god of war, who planted the seed of war and violence etc. This was necessary as the plane was under constant threat of invasion, so they needed to wage war among each other in order to learn the skill of warfare. 

And one more god who was into knowledge and lust and love and responsible for many of the vast emotions present in mortals. 

So all in all, the gods were all pretty similar beings, but like mortals, they had very different interests. These gods were chosen to rule the Prime not because they were the strongest, but because together they were able to create a diverse world with diverse life. 

So in this setting the domains were the many personal interests of the gods and therefore very flexible

 
the personal interests model is interesting. 

That would mean some really complex stuff, though, in this case. Qetza (Kwetzah) would get 7 domains that way: death, grave, life, order, peace, trickery, and war. But given a cleric of his should be able to do all the things, that would mean seven domains per cleric. Not a single choice, but all of them, at once. This is the issue. Antelle would be fine with just one of the 10 that would fall under her, but it isn’t something that would apply to all of them.

still, this could solve a few things for why Sorcerers are kinda weird (even though they don’t serve, they ally).

I think this actually solves problems rather than creates them. 

1. Clerics already get access to all clerics spells by default, which includes all sorts of elemental spells, enchantment, healing, combat spells, armor spells etc. This model explains why/how the deity is granting all these various powers that aren't strictly within their domain. So the domain is already much like a special interest instead of something that limits the core class. 

2. Then why doesn't the god of love and thunder grant both the Tempest and the Peace domains? Well, the clerics are individuals too. It's not an all you can eat buffet, so the domain is not only based on the god's domain, but also the cleric's form of service and life choices. A priest serving and embracing the elements is more closely tied to the god's elemental side, empowering that side of their priestly gifts too. 

For example in my setting. 

Riva is considered the goddess of nature, love, growth, life, peace etc. 
Varos is the considered the god of war, destruction, wrath, elements, oceans etc. 

Now if you wanted to be a Tempest cleric, you could very well be a cleric of either of these gods. If Riva and Varos had an all out thunder-duel, Varos would probably wreck Riva in no time. But to mortals this difference doesn't matter, because the mortals will never reach power levels even close to what any of the gods can achieve in any area on any given tuesday.

A God of "Love, Life and Healing" could grant their priest war-related powers so great and terrible that any mortal would wet their pants immediately upon seeing it. But still they prefer to do things their own way, so that is unlikely to happen. 

Also in my setting Havan and Riva are both considered gods of Love, but Havan's love is more passionate and lustful while Riva's love is more maternal and caring. So this could also affect what kind of a person becomes their cleric. 

The problem here is that none of the Powers really have a “single interest” or even a “fairly narrow interest”. Kinda by design. They all incorporate multiple things because they aren’t one thing.

for example: touch of death is something that all the clerics would have to have. So is Artisan’s Blessing. So is Twilight Sanctuary.  This is why I can’t do the “all of them”, because the Clerics aren’t allowed to just decide they only want these powers. They are servants of the Gods, and the damn deities will mutter in their head and send them off to do things that vary from freeing slaves to healing the sick to taking out that entire Warren there.

(and wait until ya find out that they can only heal or bless other followers of that deity).

Are you planning to remove the spell preparing feature from the class? 

You could always just put it in the cleric’s player. They pick a god and a domain, and have to explain why that domain is justified. While the god might encompass much more, why is this particular cleric drawn to this particular aspect of this particular god. 

Quote from SerLoxy >>

Are you planning to remove the spell preparing feature from the class? 

 
Nah. The gods just toss extra spells in there.

this brushes against a different issue, lol. I switched to a spell point system and technically don’t need to do the spell prep, but I don’t have any material components for spells in general. But they can only memorize so many discrete spells per day, even if they can use those spells several times each.

There are four players who use clerics in my larger group, and they all are one of the ways that we will get the party moving forward story wise, without railroading them (unless one becomes an ikon later, but that is a whole weird thing).

My personal solution was to create seven new domains that are Couth, Uncouth, Celestial, Infernal, Shadow, Nether, and Liminal, but that is linked to more of the setting itself, and my concern here was how would someone who doesn’t create their own everything achieve the goal.

I will always create my own stuff to solve a problem or meet a request, lol. The domains I created only give a single additional ability, and wouldn’t work as regular domains — but I also rebuilt Clerics from scratch. So this wasn’t about my personal needs, but more about the ability of those who want to hew closer to the RAW than I will.

Wait, how does the spell point system remove the need to prepare spells or did I misunderstand? I use it too and I'm fairly certain it only replaces Slots with Spell points and doesn't affect spell preparing mechanics or any other mechanics. Unless you mean a different spell point system and not the official variant?

Quote from Xalthu >>

You could always just put it in the cleric’s player. They pick a god and a domain, and have to explain why that domain is justified. While the god might encompass much more, why is this particular cleric drawn to this particular aspect of this particular god. 

 
I had to lay out 15 prayers for them, and this makes a lot of sense if one moves in the direction I am talking about.

and I always like developmental stuff, so totally down with Cleric justifying to their deity the nature of why they want this thing and how they will use it to sway people to follow that deity.

Quote from SerLoxy >>

Wait, how does the spell point system remove the need to prepare spells or did I misunderstand? I use it too and I'm fairly certain it only replaces Slots with Spell points and doesn't affect spell preparing mechanics or any other mechanics. Unless you mean a different spell point system and not the official variant?

 
oh, that I wish my players had been happy with just the official variant. They wanted more, lol. Next week I get to tweak spells all week long so that they can be empowered by putting more power into them. Thankfully I only have to do the SRD ones — they can create other officials from there.

Magic is essentially a rewrite here. We killed off the bulk of the vancian rules, kept preparing, memorization, added some stuff. Hence why I want to step away from it.

the whole thing will be shared at months end, though.

Quote from AEDorsay >>

Theologyofbagels: another theologian in the thread! Woot! (That’s the MA in my creds, lol). 

 Lol, sounds like we have somewhat similar educational backgrounds. My MA is a counseling/theology wombo combo. One day if I'm a good little nerd, I'll add PhD to my list of degrees. Gotta catch 'em all.

Quote from AEDorsay >>

Theologyofbagels: The issue there is what happens when to clerics serving her come from antithetical domains to each other and have to spend the night in the temple, and how do I adjudicate piety properly?

 

 

 This might be a dangerous question given to whom I'm responding, but...isn't that academic? Unless you're planning to put your players in a situation where they are exposed to this, it kind of feels like something that doesn't necessarily need an answer. Then again, my worldbuilding style is nowhere near as in-depth as yours.

If you do want a plausible explanation, then I think the simplest one is, "The gods are complicated and enigmatic. Dualities and paradoxes are a part of their nature, and a part of nature." Plus, I think having two antithetical worshippers in a temple is a great scenery chewing and lore-building opportunity. Factions and disagreements about the proper way to pay tribute to Cybele sounds authentic, to me. And your players never need know the definitive answer - because Cybele herself may change her mind from day to day. 

“The issue there is what happens when to clerics serving her come from antithetical domains to each other and have to spend the night in the temple, and how do I adjudicate piety properly?”

Theological debate. Opposed skill checks, best of five:religion, performance, religion, performance, religion. Advantage if the player actually rp’s what the character is saying. 
And if you end up with a sore loser: Thunderdome, two clerics enter, one cleric leaves. 

Quote from theologyofbagels >>

Quote from AEDorsay >>

Theologyofbagels: another theologian in the thread! Woot! (That’s the MA in my creds, lol). 

 Lol, sounds like we have somewhat similar educational backgrounds. My MA is a counseling/theology wombo combo. One day if I'm a good little nerd, I'll add PhD to my list of degrees. Gotta catch 'em all.

Quote from AEDorsay >>

Theologyofbagels: The issue there is what happens when to clerics serving her come from antithetical domains to each other and have to spend the night in the temple, and how do I adjudicate piety properly?

 

 

 This might be a dangerous question given to whom I'm responding, but...isn't that academic? Unless you're planning to put your players in a situation where they are exposed to this, it kind of feels like something that doesn't necessarily need an answer. Then again, my worldbuilding style is nowhere near as in-depth as yours.

If you do want a plausible explanation, then I think the simplest one is, "The gods are complicated and enigmatic. Dualities and paradoxes are a part of their nature, and a part of nature." Plus, I think having two antithetical worshippers in a temple is a great scenery chewing and lore-building opportunity. Factions and disagreements about the proper way to pay tribute to Cybele sounds authentic, to me. And your players never need know the definitive answer - because Cybele herself may change her mind from day to day. 

My letters are Sociology, Psychology (with Psychiatry basis), and Religion, so I totally get the wombo, lol. Downside is I can't ever attend dinner parties. 

with my style it is less about me putting them into it and more about them accidentally on purpose doing to themselves. And it would be absolute scene chewing. Probably take up two sessions, lol.

That is authentic to the world, though -- in this case, I decided about a year ago that there wouldn't be "priest sand clerics" just clerics, because they are set to lean towards more of the priest archetype. Very authentic as a result.

What I didn't explain upthread was that I look at it as 15 gods who are all "The One True God" as far as they are concerned, but that they are also a bunch of whiny, aloof, better than thou babies. Three are in "chained" status, having instigated a war that none of them know was ended by the Anima Mundi they all made more powerful by separating Wyrlde into its own existence, blah blah, one is a revived by now crazy "dead god" -- because Gods don't die, but they don't always come back right, and this is the first one.

It is a complicated little set up, and I took from shinto, santeria, animism, Vedic, Olmatec, and other indigenous sources to create the supporting background set up. The nameless Old Ones are literally the PIE deities that ultimately influenced the D&D system -- but they aren't worshipped in that manner, having been reduced more to animism. From a design standpoint, I only needed to worry about the 15 because Clerics only deal with them. Druids get the rest of them and have little if any relation to the traditional Celtic/Hallstatt religious group.

I have to update my file on my website for the setting soon, to include recent updates that aren't in my current one, which is being updated as I do the handbook.

Whew!

this is mostly about folks who want to draw in the lines, though -- I was never good at that. But if I have to get all super creative and take four years to develop a final version of a 40-year-old setting, then what about these newer folks who may want to take their childhood worlds and craft the game around them?

This thread has been really good for a lot of creative ideas, and I really like it.

I mean, all ideas from me must be taken with a grain of salt in that I worldbuild best when I do it on the fly...also, I love denying my players answers to some things. A little mystery and contradiction goes a long way to establishing verisimilitude, particularly with matters of etiology and cosmology. That, and I'm awful lazy sometimes.

One thing I'm doing for my new campaign (and if any of my players is reading this, you darn well avert your eyes right now, you little scamps) is setting up some major gods/religions that are actually complete shams. True cult situations, but nobody would know unless you're at the top. It has some fun implications on power origins, since the clerics/paladins of these religions think there's someone actually listening to their prayers...and, you know, they're casting spells. If the god you pray to doesn't exist, but you're still slinging magic around in his name...who are you really serving and what is their endgame? (And yes, I know that 5e doesn't technically require paladins to operate with a deity, but I do.)

Quote from theologyofbagels >>

I mean, all ideas from me must be taken with a grain of salt in that I worldbuild best when I do it on the fly...also, I love denying my players answers to some things. A little mystery and contradiction goes a long way to establishing verisimilitude, particularly with matters of etiology and cosmology. That, and I'm awful lazy sometimes.

One thing I'm doing for my new campaign (and if any of my players is reading this, you darn well avert your eyes right now, you little scamps) is setting up some major gods/religions that are actually complete shams. True cult situations, but nobody would know unless you're at the top. It has some fun implications on power origins, since the clerics/paladins of these religions think there's someone actually listening to their prayers...and, you know, they're casting spells. If the god you pray to doesn't exist, but you're still slinging magic around in his name...who are you really serving and what is their endgame? (And yes, I know that 5e doesn't technically require paladins to operate with a deity, but I do.)

I love the false cult bit -- the formerly dead god is perfect for that kind of set up because they are seeking to destabilize and destroy everything. Maybe down the road I will dribble that in. An unwritten subplot goal of the big campaign is for the players to have a chance to bring them back to themselves, and then help return other five dead gods. maybe as a level 20+ adventure down the road, alongside the explore the world bit. I mean, if Alfey is back, holy cow all the gals will swoon hard...

(I had 27 of them originally, Killed off a bunch in the God's War, but still had the original text and just left them, so the text mentions Gods that are no longer around.)

Quote from AEDorsay >>

so yeah, curious how you would or do handle such a thing.

Me? I'd remove every cleric domain except for Life and war (though I could probably be convinced to make it Light or possibly even Peace ).

Want to be a support cleric of your chosen deity? Life (or Light or Peace).

Want to be a fighting cleric of your deity? War.

I like the school of thought that a cleric doesn't so much get their power from a god of their domain, but rather their faith in what that domain is about. Like, you can still have clerics in settings without gods and instead a knowledge cleric might derive their power from their faith/conviction in learning and progress. In a place with gods but no specific divine domains, I would run it similarly-- the domain is a function of the cleric focusing their energies into a specific area, not deriving that focus from the powers that be.

Quote from AEDorsay >>

An unwritten subplot goal of the big campaign is for the players to have a chance to bring them back to themselves, and then help return other five dead gods. maybe as a level 20+ adventure down the road, alongside the explore the world bit.

 Ugh, consider me jealous. My last campaign had this as a huge plot hook and my players picked it up, analyzed it from a couple angles, and went, "Nahhhhh."

Quote from theologyofbagels >>

Quote from AEDorsay >>

An unwritten subplot goal of the big campaign is for the players to have a chance to bring them back to themselves, and then help return other five dead gods. maybe as a level 20+ adventure down the road, alongside the explore the world bit.

 Ugh, consider me jealous. My last campaign had this as a huge plot hook and my players picked it up, analyzed it from a couple angles, and went, "Nahhhhh."

 It is unwritten just in case they do the same, lol.

I have the outline, and can totally freewheel from that, but there’s a lot in between and they have a habit of not taking the easy hooks, lol.

but Urisha is going to be tossing crap their way, so maybe they will just get mad at them, lol.

I will share the outline here (site) once I get done with current effort and can focus on the tweaks I have to make since dumping the childhood chapter (because of adding a construct pc option).

I think Xalthu has it right, and I think it's reflected in the way gods and domains are described in the present core books.  Just like in mythology, gods are often associated with multiple domains, sort of like portfolios.  Just because attendant worshippers petition the god for divine magic within a particular domain doesn't at all mean the god's self conception has anything to do with that mortal association.  

How do gods become associated with domains?  The witnessing of myth.  Say you have a god named Alan.  Among the gods he's known as "The Sulker" with an incredibly despondent demeanor.  At one point some of the other gods get really tired of Alan's bit so they suggest he try cheering up by taking this jet ski the pantheon's giving him and try to tool around the mortal world with it, you know, have fun!  So Alan takes to the jet ski, and does tooleth around, and has an utterly miserable time.  Still some fishing crew witnesses this divine jet skier and recognize some of the markings associated with Alan.  Alan's now a sea god.  Nothing he can do about it, the prayer spammers got his number and they always call him from bodies of water.

Quote from Xalthu >>

“The issue there is what happens when to clerics serving her come from antithetical domains to each other and have to spend the night in the temple, and how do I adjudicate piety properly?”

Theological debate. Opposed skill checks, best of five:religion, performance, religion, performance, religion. Advantage if the player actually rp’s what the character is saying. 
And if you end up with a sore loser: Thunderdome, two clerics enter, one cleric leaves. 

 
“my, my, look how the world turns, Raggedy man. One day Cock of the Walk; next, a feather duster.”