I know how this sounds and I know the the logical first response would be. 'You should never kill anyones PC on purpose.'
But I find myself in an odd situation. Here it goes:
One of my players created a character that he decided to play mechanically suboptimal. Basically, he made a spellcaster but plays him as if its a martial. This causes him to feel less functional compared to his partymembers. I have tried balancing this out with magical equipent and some homebrew features. But nothing is going to fundamentally change the ways in which the mechanics of the class function.
Because I understood that this was something that was bothering him I offered this player at an early level to switch subclasses or even switch class entirely, to allow him to play better into the role he was assuming in combat. Back then, he didnt feel the need to do this and declined the offer.
A few levels later, the character died. He brought up the chance that if the ressurrection ritual (we use matt mercers rules) failed, he would start playing a martial character. The character sheet was ready in case this happened.
During the time he was dead, he was offered by a powerful entity to have his resurrection succeed with the help of this entity. With this came the possibility to switch to something like hexblade warlock or paladin if he wanted that. Again, they declined the offer.
Another few levels (and few real life months) pass and a in RP some of their relationships with other Pcs and NPCs change and became less friendly. He still feels like he underperforms in combat and he mentioned to dislike the fact that we are delving more into other peoples backstories. This is because most of the events of his backstory was best suited for the early game. And most events between 4th and 8th level did center around his backstory. But these events have now recently concluded. Im still planning on bringing other elements of his backstory back later in the game, but its time for other pc's to have their time in the spotlight.
He brought up that he was thinking of starting to multiclass to offset the imbalance in his playstyle. When I once again offered for him to simply completely switch, he again declined.
It has also come up a few times where he had the opportunity, mainly between adventures, to have his character leave the party and for him to bring in a new characrer. But also this has been declined numerous times.
This was all fine and dandy, but some things cane up recently that do bug me. Fistly, he has missed a LOT of games recently. We play once a week and this was a commitment they kept to very well when we started the game. They probably attent somewhere around 40 to 50% of the games we play. Which causes other people to have to play their character in their absence. This is how our group deals with any absense. He always has a valid reason for missing out and could be reading this completely wrong. But I have the feeling he cancels the game more often because he doesnt enjoy playing this character.
That isnt just me guessing he doesnt enjoy playing the character. He says it while we are at the table. He says things like "i dont like playing this character", "i want my character to die" and "I want to play another character". And I find that to be emberassing. It makes me feel like im keeping him hostage at my table, forcing them to play this character he doesnt like. Even tho I offered him multiple times to either change the mechanics of the character or switch out the character completely.
He has also been very vocal about the fact that if the character dies, he will choose to not even attempt to come back by means of a ressurrection ritual.
To me it feels like he really just wants to play another character, even though he declines all my offers to do so. Killing the character on purpose feels wrong and every fiber of my DM being tells me its the wrong thing. But idk what else to do. And its REALLY bugging me that he is actively telling me and the other players at the table that he does not enjoy being there and playing at the table, while shutting down all my attmpts to help him. It makes me feel like the bad guy even tho im trying to help him.
What do you think I should do? Is there any other way to go about this?
So, I had a player do almost exactly the same thing to me.
TL;DR - I killed off the old PC and let them roll up a new one. Happy days thereafter.
You might want to ask why your player keeps declining your offers. When I talked to my player, the answer was always, "I feel it would betray the character to change him." It was the player's first-ever PC and they were pretty attached to keeping him original, even though they didn't like being him. I, too, went twelve rounds with magic items, animal companions, multiclassing conversations, class shifts and even stat reallocation and the player declined every single amendment. The PC ended up dying in a dungeon and the player jumped on the chance to roll up something new. I had the PC revived (because it was their first character) and ride off into the sunset. Happy ending, but permanently off-screen.
I recommend talking to the player and seeing if there's a playstyle disconnect somewhere. My player started missing a ton of games toward the end too (though some of that was real life butting in), and it was in part because they were frustrated with my pacing and didn't know how to vocalize it - or didn't feel comfortable critiquing my DMing. Open communication and collaboration solves a lot of issues, but sometimes it's just not the best fit between player and DM.
I second the part about asking why the player declines to have a new character. I also like the suggestion of just allowing the character to retire to a life of peace. But yeah, the most important advice is to talk to your player. Best of luck and keep us updated! :)
In similar situations here's the rough lines I followed. Most of them you seem to have tried...so I'm sorry if it's not all helpful.
1) Give the party some downtime in a location where there are a variety of skilled trainers. Explain that this is an extended break...you could even take a real world break which I think most GMs should do at least once a year per group. During this downtime you could give the player both the in game time and the real world time to respec the character. This can then be explained that during the downtime while player 3 was building a furnace and trying to craft their own blade, player 2 decided to brew and experiment with potions and the like, player 1 meanwhile decided to retrain having felt that they were being called to a different purpose in life. I think sometimes we overlook the importance of downtime as a tool to allow players to do stuff. This is a really good tool especially for respec or multi-class characters.
2) The character in question is going to be abducted, kidnapped, held for ransom, or some other story point. Talk through an idea like this with the player in question. Explain that you've had an idea for a really cool arc and you need the player's help. Would they be willing to try a different character for a while as you'd like to have their regular character taken in the night. If they're up for it that's amazing...the player gets to try out a different character and you get a really cool arc to present to the party.
3) A one-to-one conversation with the player in question. Look I have heard these concerns. I know that it's difficult but if you want to take a break from the campaign, that's okay you're welcome to and you can return in future if you want. It's also okay to outright kill off the character, would you like to help write their exit? Is there something about the campaign you'd like to discuss between us? Something that might help you enjoy it more?
4) Outright ask the player to leave the table. I've done this a few times and it's heartbreaking, but sometimes if the player declines all the other solutions you propose...it's the only way to move forward constructively. If they don't hear what you are saying or you don't have the vocabulary to describe why there are problems...simply saying that it isn't working is the right thing to do.
5) Kill the player character off. I hate doing it myself. I try, as hard as I can not to but sometimes it really is for the best. Killing a character is necessary. I've had it once before and when every other offer was declined I headlined it to the player in question. I've heard your concerns, we've tried to talk about it, but I don't have any other options left...I will be killing off your character, here are my reasons. I'm not going to say when or how the character will exit, but it is coming. Please write up a new character sheet as it could happen any time.
At every stage, be transparent with the rest of the group too. I tend to find that whenever I need to 1-to-1 with a player, it's a good chance to check in with the other players. Find out any concerns or issues they may have that they don't want to bring up in the group setting. If the player does choose to leave the table, or you ask them to leave discuss if they wish to write or say something to the rest of the group before they leave. If they decline be clear that you're going to explain to the rest of the party what happened explaining that there's no blame or fault, but here are the reasons you made the decision. Try too, where possible to leave the door open for the player's return if they do have to leave.
As theologyofbagels says, sometimes theres a DM/Player mismatch, and communication is important. I'm sure all GMs go through this at some point, so feel for you. I hope you manage to come to a resolution that serves everyone's best interests.
Why did you have the supernatural entity resurrect them if they didn't like their character, died naturally, seemed ok with it, and already had another character ready to go?
And why did the player agree if they didn't like playing the character? Doesn't make sense to me.
This sounds weirdly passive-aggressive. They don’t want to play the character, but they’re not taking steps to deal with it themselves, even after they’ve been given the opportunity. Like when someone in a bad relationship starts acting like a jerk because they want out, but want the other person to do the breaking up. Part of me thinks, just let them be miserable if they’re not willing to fix the problem themselves. But if it’s making you (and maybe the other players, I’m not clear) miserable, too, that complicates things.
Maybe go with tough love. Tell them: I’ve given you chances to make a new character. You haven’t taken them. So here’s one last one, either make the new character, or quit your whining. Those are your two choices.
Dear DM's,
I know how this sounds and I know the the logical first response would be. 'You should never kill anyones PC on purpose.'
But I find myself in an odd situation.
Here it goes:
One of my players created a character that he decided to play mechanically suboptimal. Basically, he made a spellcaster but plays him as if its a martial. This causes him to feel less functional compared to his partymembers. I have tried balancing this out with magical equipent and some homebrew features. But nothing is going to fundamentally change the ways in which the mechanics of the class function.
Because I understood that this was something that was bothering him I offered this player at an early level to switch subclasses or even switch class entirely, to allow him to play better into the role he was assuming in combat. Back then, he didnt feel the need to do this and declined the offer.
A few levels later, the character died. He brought up the chance that if the ressurrection ritual (we use matt mercers rules) failed, he would start playing a martial character. The character sheet was ready in case this happened.
During the time he was dead, he was offered by a powerful entity to have his resurrection succeed with the help of this entity. With this came the possibility to switch to something like hexblade warlock or paladin if he wanted that. Again, they declined the offer.
Another few levels (and few real life months) pass and a in RP some of their relationships with other Pcs and NPCs change and became less friendly. He still feels like he underperforms in combat and he mentioned to dislike the fact that we are delving more into other peoples backstories. This is because most of the events of his backstory was best suited for the early game. And most events between 4th and 8th level did center around his backstory. But these events have now recently concluded. Im still planning on bringing other elements of his backstory back later in the game, but its time for other pc's to have their time in the spotlight.
He brought up that he was thinking of starting to multiclass to offset the imbalance in his playstyle. When I once again offered for him to simply completely switch, he again declined.
It has also come up a few times where he had the opportunity, mainly between adventures, to have his character leave the party and for him to bring in a new characrer. But also this has been declined numerous times.
This was all fine and dandy, but some things cane up recently that do bug me. Fistly, he has missed a LOT of games recently. We play once a week and this was a commitment they kept to very well when we started the game. They probably attent somewhere around 40 to 50% of the games we play. Which causes other people to have to play their character in their absence. This is how our group deals with any absense. He always has a valid reason for missing out and could be reading this completely wrong. But I have the feeling he cancels the game more often because he doesnt enjoy playing this character.
That isnt just me guessing he doesnt enjoy playing the character. He says it while we are at the table. He says things like "i dont like playing this character", "i want my character to die" and "I want to play another character". And I find that to be emberassing. It makes me feel like im keeping him hostage at my table, forcing them to play this character he doesnt like. Even tho I offered him multiple times to either change the mechanics of the character or switch out the character completely.
He has also been very vocal about the fact that if the character dies, he will choose to not even attempt to come back by means of a ressurrection ritual.
To me it feels like he really just wants to play another character, even though he declines all my offers to do so. Killing the character on purpose feels wrong and every fiber of my DM being tells me its the wrong thing. But idk what else to do. And its REALLY bugging me that he is actively telling me and the other players at the table that he does not enjoy being there and playing at the table, while shutting down all my attmpts to help him. It makes me feel like the bad guy even tho im trying to help him.
What do you think I should do? Is there any other way to go about this?
So, I had a player do almost exactly the same thing to me.
TL;DR - I killed off the old PC and let them roll up a new one. Happy days thereafter.
You might want to ask why your player keeps declining your offers. When I talked to my player, the answer was always, "I feel it would betray the character to change him." It was the player's first-ever PC and they were pretty attached to keeping him original, even though they didn't like being him. I, too, went twelve rounds with magic items, animal companions, multiclassing conversations, class shifts and even stat reallocation and the player declined every single amendment. The PC ended up dying in a dungeon and the player jumped on the chance to roll up something new. I had the PC revived (because it was their first character) and ride off into the sunset. Happy ending, but permanently off-screen.
I recommend talking to the player and seeing if there's a playstyle disconnect somewhere. My player started missing a ton of games toward the end too (though some of that was real life butting in), and it was in part because they were frustrated with my pacing and didn't know how to vocalize it - or didn't feel comfortable critiquing my DMing. Open communication and collaboration solves a lot of issues, but sometimes it's just not the best fit between player and DM.
Best of luck to you and your player!
I second the part about asking why the player declines to have a new character. I also like the suggestion of just allowing the character to retire to a life of peace. But yeah, the most important advice is to talk to your player. Best of luck and keep us updated! :)
In similar situations here's the rough lines I followed. Most of them you seem to have tried...so I'm sorry if it's not all helpful.
1) Give the party some downtime in a location where there are a variety of skilled trainers. Explain that this is an extended break...you could even take a real world break which I think most GMs should do at least once a year per group. During this downtime you could give the player both the in game time and the real world time to respec the character. This can then be explained that during the downtime while player 3 was building a furnace and trying to craft their own blade, player 2 decided to brew and experiment with potions and the like, player 1 meanwhile decided to retrain having felt that they were being called to a different purpose in life. I think sometimes we overlook the importance of downtime as a tool to allow players to do stuff. This is a really good tool especially for respec or multi-class characters.
2) The character in question is going to be abducted, kidnapped, held for ransom, or some other story point. Talk through an idea like this with the player in question. Explain that you've had an idea for a really cool arc and you need the player's help. Would they be willing to try a different character for a while as you'd like to have their regular character taken in the night. If they're up for it that's amazing...the player gets to try out a different character and you get a really cool arc to present to the party.
3) A one-to-one conversation with the player in question. Look I have heard these concerns. I know that it's difficult but if you want to take a break from the campaign, that's okay you're welcome to and you can return in future if you want. It's also okay to outright kill off the character, would you like to help write their exit? Is there something about the campaign you'd like to discuss between us? Something that might help you enjoy it more?
4) Outright ask the player to leave the table. I've done this a few times and it's heartbreaking, but sometimes if the player declines all the other solutions you propose...it's the only way to move forward constructively. If they don't hear what you are saying or you don't have the vocabulary to describe why there are problems...simply saying that it isn't working is the right thing to do.
5) Kill the player character off. I hate doing it myself. I try, as hard as I can not to but sometimes it really is for the best. Killing a character is necessary. I've had it once before and when every other offer was declined I headlined it to the player in question. I've heard your concerns, we've tried to talk about it, but I don't have any other options left...I will be killing off your character, here are my reasons. I'm not going to say when or how the character will exit, but it is coming. Please write up a new character sheet as it could happen any time.
At every stage, be transparent with the rest of the group too. I tend to find that whenever I need to 1-to-1 with a player, it's a good chance to check in with the other players. Find out any concerns or issues they may have that they don't want to bring up in the group setting. If the player does choose to leave the table, or you ask them to leave discuss if they wish to write or say something to the rest of the group before they leave. If they decline be clear that you're going to explain to the rest of the party what happened explaining that there's no blame or fault, but here are the reasons you made the decision. Try too, where possible to leave the door open for the player's return if they do have to leave.
As theologyofbagels says, sometimes theres a DM/Player mismatch, and communication is important. I'm sure all GMs go through this at some point, so feel for you. I hope you manage to come to a resolution that serves everyone's best interests.
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Why did you have the supernatural entity resurrect them if they didn't like their character, died naturally, seemed ok with it, and already had another character ready to go?
And why did the player agree if they didn't like playing the character? Doesn't make sense to me.
This sounds weirdly passive-aggressive. They don’t want to play the character, but they’re not taking steps to deal with it themselves, even after they’ve been given the opportunity. Like when someone in a bad relationship starts acting like a jerk because they want out, but want the other person to do the breaking up.
Part of me thinks, just let them be miserable if they’re not willing to fix the problem themselves. But if it’s making you (and maybe the other players, I’m not clear) miserable, too, that complicates things.
Maybe go with tough love. Tell them: I’ve given you chances to make a new character. You haven’t taken them. So here’s one last one, either make the new character, or quit your whining. Those are your two choices.