I have an NPC with a truly bonkers Passive Perception of 23. I'm finding it difficult to manage situations where the party needs to make a perception check and this player just says 'my passive is 23 so do I see this?'
I feel when they do this, it's taking away the opportunity for other players to discover information or there are very little stakes as they are always able to discern a lot of information. We've previously had a campaign with lower passives and it built tension and suspense at the table when perception rolls were made and the rolls were average as players felt like there was still more to be gleaned from situations.
I don't think the answer is raising the DC on perception checks as it essentially means the other PC's will have to roll really high to even compete. On the flip side, this PC has obviously invested resources into building a large passive, so I don't want to disregard that either.
If anyone has any advice on handling a large passive perception on perception checks that would be very helpful! Thanks!
I would have solved the problem beforehand by not allowing the character, but if the character already exists... just design your adventures on the assumption that any mystery that can be solved with a perception check will be, and thus don't make them a major plot focus. There are plenty of mysteries that aren't dependent on perception checks (their high passive should still give them useful information... but the problem shouldn't be one that can be straight up solved with perception).
Perception isn’t the same as comprehension: they’ve spotted it, but what does it mean? Maybe a History or Nature check is then needed to understand the significance. You might also consider having some clues or nuggets require other types of search, such as Survival or Investigation, to find.
Hmm... this sounds lick a tricky situation. The answer to this problem of yours might not be in plain sight... it could take some investigation to find it (wink wink).
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The other thing is that the Passive Perception score is designed to act as a DC for other creatures’ Stealth checks (or Sleight of Hand), not for actively searching for hidden objects. I assume that their Wisdom (Perception) modifier will be +13, which means they have a 30% chance of failing a DC 20 check to find that really well-concealed door.
Perception isn’t the same as comprehension: they’ve spotted it, but what does it mean? Maybe a History or Nature check is then needed to understand the significance. You might also consider having some clues or nuggets require other types of search, such as Survival or Investigation, to find.
Exactly this. For me passive skills are looking/hearing, but active skills are seeing/listening. A Passive Perception might reveal a sound that the others might not hear, but you'd need an active check to glean more info (Nature to identify if it was a beast or stonework or something else which made the sound, or Arcana to tell if it was magical, or Perception to get a better idea of which direction and distance the sound came from).
An example: Passive Perception tells you a shrub is swaying gently in the breeze. A Wisdom check might be required to tell you that there's no breeze: something's in that shrub, or that you may need a Nature/Survival check to guess what sort of plant it is or what else could cause such movement. Passive Perception does not tell you that 35ft. away is a twig blight, roll initiative. That's how I run it anyway.
A high Passive Perception is a nice-to-have; it allows you to tell the players (read: they need not ask about their PP, ooh matron) a few more things about the dungeon without necessarily spoiling it. You can tell them that dust isn't settling in particular areas, walls have shoddier craftsmanship, or that the carpet has a slight bump in the centre. It's up to them to take the initiative and investigate it further and realise that there's a tripwire catching the dust above the ground, that by pulling a stone out you'll reveal a room behind it, and that there's a trapdoor under the carpet. And if they don't investigate, there's nothing more you need to do.
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
Perception will tell you that the wall doesn't look right, but Investigation is required to find the mechanism that will actually open the secret door that is concealed in that wall.
The high perception character might also not be the front person in the party - or they won't be so good at other things since they've optimised their character around such a high passive perception.
I'm assuming that high passive perception is achieved by: 18-19 wisdom +4 Expertise in Perception +4 (Proficiency bonus level 1-4 = 2) Observant Feat = +5 Passive perception. That would give a total of 23 passive perception.
Remember, passive perception is a lot different than active perception. When he says I'm looking for xx, that means he is actively looking for something, and can't use his passive perception.
Also, sleeping can be troublesome with high passive perception. According to the XGtE: Whispers don’t disturb sleep, unless a sleeper’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score is 20 or higher and the whispers are within 10 feet of the sleeper. Speech at a normal volume awakens a sleeper if the environment is otherwise silent (no wind, birdsong, crickets, street sounds, or the like) and the sleeper has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 15 or higher.
Perception checks use their perception skill bonus. It's not the same as passive. With the check, you are looking for something. The passive is what I use as the DC for something attempting a stealth check. Any player whose passive beats that creatures stealth sees the creature. It's more like your awareness to, say, an ambush of goblin archers hiding in the trees. Your skill is more like your ability to find something of interest. Hope this helps. :)
I'm assuming that high passive perception is achieved by: 18-19 wisdom +4 Expertise in Perception +4 (Proficiency bonus level 1-4 = 2) Observant Feat = +5 Passive perception. That would give a total of 23 passive perception.
Remember, passive perception is a lot different than active perception. When he says I'm looking for xx, that means he is actively looking for something, and can't use his passive perception.
Also, sleeping can be troublesome with high passive perception. According to the XGtE: Whispers don’t disturb sleep, unless a sleeper’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score is 20 or higher and the whispers are within 10 feet of the sleeper. Speech at a normal volume awakens a sleeper if the environment is otherwise silent (no wind, birdsong, crickets, street sounds, or the like) and the sleeper has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 15 or higher.
This statement "When he says I'm looking for xx, that means he is actively looking for something, and can't use his passive perception." is absolutely incorrect and a common misconception about passive perception. Passive is not referring to the character .. it is referring to the PLAYER. Passive perception applies when the player does not roll dice.
Rules:
"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn’t involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster."
A character that is NOT actually looking around does NOT get a passive perception at all.
"Noticing Threats
Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat. The DM might decide that a threat can be noticed only by characters in a particular rank. For example, as the characters are exploring a maze of tunnels, the DM might decide that only those characters in the back rank have a chance to hear or spot a stealthy creature following the group, while characters in the front and middle ranks cannot."
"Other Activities
Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats."
A character that is NOT focused on watching for danger does NOT contribute their passive Perception. Use of passive perception or any passive skill requires the character to be taking a specific action repeatedly.
Passive is the PLAYER being passive by not rolling dice. If the character isn't doing an appropriate action then their passive skill does not apply in the first place.
To the OP, there are several things that you can use to adjust the game with characters with high passive perception.
1) The character has possibly invested stat increases, a feat, and expertise in the skill to achieve levels like that. The character, when looking, DOES see a lot of things that other characters might miss and you should play it that way. However, even when searching a room, characters don't do it all together in one big group. Each tends to look in different places and if there is something to see or hear in the area they are looking at then the high passive perception character will notice without rolling what other characters might miss. But that character is not everywhere at the same time so there are still lots of opportunities for the other characters if the things to notice require being within a certain distance or in a certain location.
- split up locations to search so that everyone gets a chance to find things - the specialized character will just find things anyone else misses.
- high passive perception means that they will see and hear things that are difficult to see and hear but what those things mean is a different question that may require a skill check by that character or another one.
- there are some situations where it is impossible to notice things - some creatures imitate things exactly so in those cases a high passive perception doesn't help
- in an ambush, the character with a high passive perception is unlikely to be surprised - they will likely notice but that does not prevent the other characters from being surprised just like the Alert feat prevents that character from being surprised but doesn't help the party.
I find I don't actually change very much to deal with characters with high passive skills - their automatic success in some circumstances is just part of the character.
Finally, keep in mind that passive skills are for a task done repeatedly or when the DM doesn't want the party to roll dice. So, if a character in combat wants to look around for a hidden exit, they have to roll for it since there is a time constraint and consequences for failure, it is not a task done repeatedly so their passive perception doesn't apply. (on the other hand, passive perception applies against stealth rolls since the character is always assumed to be paying attention and looking around all the time especially in combat).
2) A character with the Observant feat will also have a high passive Investigation. This means that they will usually reason something out if they search for it.
However, as long as there isn't a time constraint or a consequence for failure, the effect of the passive skill is on how long it takes them to find something rather than whether they will succeed or fail.
A passive skill less than the required DC means that on average they won't succeed on a few attempts so they would need a die roll to see if they are immediately successful. However, keep in mind that if time is truly unlimited and there are no consequences for failure ... eg a character finds a locked jewelry box, it has a lock but no trap, the character's passive thieves tool skill isn't enough to open the box and they try to open it and fail. If they take the box back to the inn then it might take them a few hours but unless the DC is impossible for them, the character SHOULD eventually succeed in opening it.
- have multiple areas to search in a room so that each character has a chance to apply their skills. The character who is really good may not need to roll but other characters will roll high enough often enough that it balances out while rewarding the character invested in the abilities. However, the character that is really good can't search everywhere at once.
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Rolling dice is always fun, but rolling perception checks shouldn't really cause that much tension. If the DM only calls for perception checks when there is something to find then it kind of gives things away (which is another reason for using passive checks).
Passive skills also help prevent incongruity from the die rolls. For example, the barbarian with 8 int and a -1 in arcana vs the wizard who has invested in expertise in the arcana skill and boosted their int to 20 - in tier 2 with 20 int the wizard has a +11 in arcana. The two characters inspect a rune on a step. The wizard rolls a 3 and gets a 14 while the barbarian rolls a 17 for net 16 against a relatively easy DC 15. The barbarian says "Ha wizard I'm smart! it is obviously a glyph of warding with a fire spell embedded in it", while the wizard goes "how did I miss that?". While, in my opinion, the wizard should NOT miss it. To me it adds narrative dissonance and makes the wizard feel like they wasted the time and resources to be good at arcana when even the barbarian can obviously figure it out. So, unless the party is in a hurry and being chased or with some other constraint that would prevent the use of a passive skill, I would just narrate the wizard examining the rune and what they find. If the barbarian wants to look too, they can roll for it and likely confirm what the wizard saw if they roll high enough. Just having everyone roll dice for anything that comes up really doesn't make the game better or add tension in my opinion.
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Last comment .. I have a level 17 character now ... 12 rogue/5 warlock ... devils sight/darkvision ... observant feat, expertise in both investigation and perception, 12 int, 14 wis ... modifiers on investigation and perception rolled are +13 investigation, +14 perception with +18 and +19 on passive skills for 28/29 passive investigation/perception and with reliable talent the lowest rolls they can make are 23/24 investigation/perception. Even by level 9, their passive perception was 25. It was fun playing a character that was able to spot traps, secret doors, figure out how to open them and was generally useful to the party (we were playing Tomb of Annihilation (started from level 1) and it was a really useful skill to have by the end of the module). However, it didn't disrupt anyone else, it was generally pretty appreciated since no one wanted to step into a deadly trap, and other characters were better at other things like casting spells or doing damage - so rather than be disruptive, it just became a part of the character in the campaign.
P.S. Off topic: Stealth on this character is a +18 with 22 dex and +12 from expertise with a minimum 28 rolled. However, this is NOT an issue either since both the DM and I know that you can't hide if there is nothing to hide behind. Give the character some sort of cover and other creatures won't be able to figure out what he is up to or when he is going to attack but if they walk around the corner or look behind the tree, the character isn't hidden any more. A character can't hide when they are clearly seen ... which solves most of the issues surrounding having a high stealth ability.
I have an NPC with a truly bonkers Passive Perception of 23. I'm finding it difficult to manage situations where the party needs to make a perception check and this player just says 'my passive is 23 so do I see this?'
I feel when they do this, it's taking away the opportunity for other players to discover information or there are very little stakes as they are always able to discern a lot of information. We've previously had a campaign with lower passives and it built tension and suspense at the table when perception rolls were made and the rolls were average as players felt like there was still more to be gleaned from situations.
I don't think the answer is raising the DC on perception checks as it essentially means the other PC's will have to roll really high to even compete. On the flip side, this PC has obviously invested resources into building a large passive, so I don't want to disregard that either.
If anyone has any advice on handling a large passive perception on perception checks that would be very helpful! Thanks!
I have a similar situation with a player with a pretty high passive perception (not THAT high though) and what I have found seems to be working is basically doing double skill checks. Their perception lets them spot something, but it doesn't really tell them anything about it, so I make them do a history or arcana or investigation etc check to gain understanding about the thing. I have also adapted to it by increasing the amount of things the see or spot with their perception, to include not just the important thing or clue, but several mundane unrelated things. In addition to whatever the macguffin is, they also find an interesting ring, an old dagger with unknown wording on it, a mysterious not with an unlabeled map attached. So then they have to still figure out which thing is the important thing and how it needs to be used.
I have an NPC with a truly bonkers Passive Perception of 23. I'm finding it difficult to manage situations where the party needs to make a perception check and this player just says 'my passive is 23 so do I see this?'
And that is the problem; when your player says "my passive is 23 so do I see this?" you should reply with "Well, what is it that you doing?"
The expectation should not be Passive Perception is like Spidey-Sense, a disturbance in The Force, or Robocop's POV. It isn't automatic. It is a result from engaging in an activity and if it reasonable that the character could perceive this element based on the activity.
If this character was still suffering the condition of being blind or deaf, drunk and failing at hitting on the party's sorcerer, or in an intense debate with the bard over the correct pronunciation of "Bahamut"; then it is fair to rule the character's Passive Perception is at a disadvantage, does not apply and the player must roll the check, or the character may not be able to make the check at all. The point is the activities the character is engaging in or able to engage in will impact their abilities.
So take this example:
The party infiltrates the quarters of the Wizard of the Royal Court. They are able to quietly secure the door close to the main hallway and the quarters are empty. The quarters consists of two rooms: one being a rectangle 25'x40' and leading into an adjacent room that is round with a 20' diameter. There is no door that separates these rooms. The rectangular room consists of simple furniture, a dining area, a fireplace, and some bookshelves. The round room has an area with a workbench and laboratory equipment and at the farthest point there is a small raised platform that houses a bed and some clothing cupboards.
If the player with the Passive 23 decides to run and check out the platform with the bed, they may discover that some of the panels are loose and not secure. This could lead to them investigating for a hidden compartment. But that doesn't mean they noticed the dirty plates have the remains of breakfast, that there is a charred parchment in back of the fireplace, and that the workbench has three interesting artifacts. The character needs to demonstrate they are looking around these areas, and if another character beats them to that location they get priority to do the perception check.
Overall, make the character state an action and their passive perception only applies to discovers that are relevant to that action. If they scout ahead, then they cant' tell if the party is being followed. If they are searching for a secret door then they cannot be looking out for monsters. If they are in another room and the sorcerer fails a perception while looking over some trinkets the party found, the player shouldn't yell out "What about my 23?"; and if they do then remind them they are not in a position to be looking over these trinkets.
Get the table out of the habit of just asking to make "an ability check" and require them to describe how the character is engaging in an activity. From there you can determine if an ability check applies. This allows the player to continue to have the Passive 23 but boundaries are set, and they have to rely on other characters' perception.
If anyone has any advice on handling a large passive perception on perception checks that would be very helpful! Thanks!
First question is what are you using Passive Perception for? It's Passive so the player never gets to initiate it - it should only be used when you the DM have something occurring and want to give players a chance to observe it. Sounds like you are already doing that though and the main issue is that Player A always sees everything that no one else sees, and everyone else is useless as far as Passive Perception goes
A couple solutions that I use there are a) always ask for Passive Perception rolls (so the 23 becomes +13 and now they're really strong but not automatically the best on every single check), and b) ask specific characters to roll Passive Perception depending on who would be "in position to see it" (this might be the whole party, might be the front/back/middle of the marching order, might just be completely random on my whim, etc)
I have an NPC with a truly bonkers Passive Perception of 23. I'm finding it difficult to manage situations where the party needs to make a perception check and this player just says 'my passive is 23 so do I see this?'
I have two comments.
First, if I ask for a check and a player does anything other than roll a die and give me a number, I ignore what they are saying. I asked for a check, and until I get a check Im not continuing or engaging. I try not to get aggravated, just prompt the player to give me the number so the game can move on.
More generally, I alread use character proficiencies when giving descriptions, so if a player asks something like "I have passive perception, do I see anything", my answer is, 'You see what I've just described." If the player repeats themself then I respond with sarcasm. :-)
"Oh, you have Passive Perception 23? I guess I should write that on the little piece of card in front of me. Oh, wait, look, I already have it written down on the little piece of card in front of me. I guess I already know your character has Passive Perception 23 which is why I used it in the description I gave to you not two minutes ago."
Heh heh.
Second, remember that Perception is all about things you perceive. Things you see, hear, smell and feel. Not things you know or deduce.
Perception cannot find a secret door. Perception can find circular scratches in the floor, or a faint breeze, or a mismatch in the paint colour on a certain patch on the wall. The players have to work out what's there from the perceptible things. Probably by using Investigation. Oh, you all dumped Int and no-one took Investigation? Well, that was silly wasn't it.
That character with the awesome Wisdom (Perception) is like Sherlock Holmes who looks at a person once and notices the wear and tear of ther clothes, the colour of a tattoo, the chalk dust between their fingers, and so on.
The character needs an awesome Intelligence (Investigation) to get the other half of the Sherlock Holmes deduction coolness - knowing that the particular tattoo is only found in Shanghai, knowing that chalk dust between the fingers indicates a snooker player, knowing that the wear and tear on the clothes indicates the person is down on their luck, and finally knowing that there is a snooker parlour on the docks frequented by Chinese sailors and that the parlour's owner is a loan shark, so maybe this person owes them a lot of money.
Hello!
I have an NPC with a truly bonkers Passive Perception of 23. I'm finding it difficult to manage situations where the party needs to make a perception check and this player just says 'my passive is 23 so do I see this?'
I feel when they do this, it's taking away the opportunity for other players to discover information or there are very little stakes as they are always able to discern a lot of information. We've previously had a campaign with lower passives and it built tension and suspense at the table when perception rolls were made and the rolls were average as players felt like there was still more to be gleaned from situations.
I don't think the answer is raising the DC on perception checks as it essentially means the other PC's will have to roll really high to even compete. On the flip side, this PC has obviously invested resources into building a large passive, so I don't want to disregard that either.
If anyone has any advice on handling a large passive perception on perception checks that would be very helpful! Thanks!
I would have solved the problem beforehand by not allowing the character, but if the character already exists... just design your adventures on the assumption that any mystery that can be solved with a perception check will be, and thus don't make them a major plot focus. There are plenty of mysteries that aren't dependent on perception checks (their high passive should still give them useful information... but the problem shouldn't be one that can be straight up solved with perception).
Perception isn’t the same as comprehension: they’ve spotted it, but what does it mean? Maybe a History or Nature check is then needed to understand the significance. You might also consider having some clues or nuggets require other types of search, such as Survival or Investigation, to find.
Hmm... this sounds lick a tricky situation. The answer to this problem of yours might not be in plain sight... it could take some investigation to find it (wink wink).
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The other thing is that the Passive Perception score is designed to act as a DC for other creatures’ Stealth checks (or Sleight of Hand), not for actively searching for hidden objects. I assume that their Wisdom (Perception) modifier will be +13, which means they have a 30% chance of failing a DC 20 check to find that really well-concealed door.
Exactly this. For me passive skills are looking/hearing, but active skills are seeing/listening. A Passive Perception might reveal a sound that the others might not hear, but you'd need an active check to glean more info (Nature to identify if it was a beast or stonework or something else which made the sound, or Arcana to tell if it was magical, or Perception to get a better idea of which direction and distance the sound came from).
An example: Passive Perception tells you a shrub is swaying gently in the breeze. A Wisdom check might be required to tell you that there's no breeze: something's in that shrub, or that you may need a Nature/Survival check to guess what sort of plant it is or what else could cause such movement. Passive Perception does not tell you that 35ft. away is a twig blight, roll initiative. That's how I run it anyway.
A high Passive Perception is a nice-to-have; it allows you to tell the players (read: they need not ask about their PP, ooh matron) a few more things about the dungeon without necessarily spoiling it. You can tell them that dust isn't settling in particular areas, walls have shoddier craftsmanship, or that the carpet has a slight bump in the centre. It's up to them to take the initiative and investigate it further and realise that there's a tripwire catching the dust above the ground, that by pulling a stone out you'll reveal a room behind it, and that there's a trapdoor under the carpet. And if they don't investigate, there's nothing more you need to do.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Perception will tell you that the wall doesn't look right, but Investigation is required to find the mechanism that will actually open the secret door that is concealed in that wall.
The high perception character might also not be the front person in the party - or they won't be so good at other things since they've optimised their character around such a high passive perception.
I'm assuming that high passive perception is achieved by:
18-19 wisdom +4
Expertise in Perception +4 (Proficiency bonus level 1-4 = 2)
Observant Feat = +5 Passive perception.
That would give a total of 23 passive perception.
Remember, passive perception is a lot different than active perception.
When he says I'm looking for xx, that means he is actively looking for something, and can't use his passive perception.
Also, sleeping can be troublesome with high passive perception.
According to the XGtE:
Whispers don’t disturb sleep, unless a sleeper’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score is 20 or higher and the whispers are within 10 feet of the sleeper. Speech at a normal volume awakens a sleeper if the environment is otherwise silent (no wind, birdsong, crickets, street sounds, or the like) and the sleeper has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 15 or higher.
Perception checks use their perception skill bonus. It's not the same as passive. With the check, you are looking for something. The passive is what I use as the DC for something attempting a stealth check. Any player whose passive beats that creatures stealth sees the creature. It's more like your awareness to, say, an ambush of goblin archers hiding in the trees. Your skill is more like your ability to find something of interest. Hope this helps. :)
This statement "When he says I'm looking for xx, that means he is actively looking for something, and can't use his passive perception." is absolutely incorrect and a common misconception about passive perception. Passive is not referring to the character .. it is referring to the PLAYER. Passive perception applies when the player does not roll dice.
Rules:
"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn’t involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster."
A character that is NOT actually looking around does NOT get a passive perception at all.
"Noticing Threats
Use the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the characters to determine whether anyone in the group notices a hidden threat. The DM might decide that a threat can be noticed only by characters in a particular rank. For example, as the characters are exploring a maze of tunnels, the DM might decide that only those characters in the back rank have a chance to hear or spot a stealthy creature following the group, while characters in the front and middle ranks cannot."
"Other Activities
Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats."
A character that is NOT focused on watching for danger does NOT contribute their passive Perception. Use of passive perception or any passive skill requires the character to be taking a specific action repeatedly.
Passive is the PLAYER being passive by not rolling dice. If the character isn't doing an appropriate action then their passive skill does not apply in the first place.
To the OP, there are several things that you can use to adjust the game with characters with high passive perception.
1) The character has possibly invested stat increases, a feat, and expertise in the skill to achieve levels like that. The character, when looking, DOES see a lot of things that other characters might miss and you should play it that way. However, even when searching a room, characters don't do it all together in one big group. Each tends to look in different places and if there is something to see or hear in the area they are looking at then the high passive perception character will notice without rolling what other characters might miss. But that character is not everywhere at the same time so there are still lots of opportunities for the other characters if the things to notice require being within a certain distance or in a certain location.
- split up locations to search so that everyone gets a chance to find things - the specialized character will just find things anyone else misses.
- high passive perception means that they will see and hear things that are difficult to see and hear but what those things mean is a different question that may require a skill check by that character or another one.
- there are some situations where it is impossible to notice things - some creatures imitate things exactly so in those cases a high passive perception doesn't help
- in an ambush, the character with a high passive perception is unlikely to be surprised - they will likely notice but that does not prevent the other characters from being surprised just like the Alert feat prevents that character from being surprised but doesn't help the party.
I find I don't actually change very much to deal with characters with high passive skills - their automatic success in some circumstances is just part of the character.
Finally, keep in mind that passive skills are for a task done repeatedly or when the DM doesn't want the party to roll dice. So, if a character in combat wants to look around for a hidden exit, they have to roll for it since there is a time constraint and consequences for failure, it is not a task done repeatedly so their passive perception doesn't apply. (on the other hand, passive perception applies against stealth rolls since the character is always assumed to be paying attention and looking around all the time especially in combat).
2) A character with the Observant feat will also have a high passive Investigation. This means that they will usually reason something out if they search for it.
However, as long as there isn't a time constraint or a consequence for failure, the effect of the passive skill is on how long it takes them to find something rather than whether they will succeed or fail.
A passive skill less than the required DC means that on average they won't succeed on a few attempts so they would need a die roll to see if they are immediately successful. However, keep in mind that if time is truly unlimited and there are no consequences for failure ... eg a character finds a locked jewelry box, it has a lock but no trap, the character's passive thieves tool skill isn't enough to open the box and they try to open it and fail. If they take the box back to the inn then it might take them a few hours but unless the DC is impossible for them, the character SHOULD eventually succeed in opening it.
- have multiple areas to search in a room so that each character has a chance to apply their skills. The character who is really good may not need to roll but other characters will roll high enough often enough that it balances out while rewarding the character invested in the abilities. However, the character that is really good can't search everywhere at once.
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Rolling dice is always fun, but rolling perception checks shouldn't really cause that much tension. If the DM only calls for perception checks when there is something to find then it kind of gives things away (which is another reason for using passive checks).
Passive skills also help prevent incongruity from the die rolls. For example, the barbarian with 8 int and a -1 in arcana vs the wizard who has invested in expertise in the arcana skill and boosted their int to 20 - in tier 2 with 20 int the wizard has a +11 in arcana. The two characters inspect a rune on a step. The wizard rolls a 3 and gets a 14 while the barbarian rolls a 17 for net 16 against a relatively easy DC 15. The barbarian says "Ha wizard I'm smart! it is obviously a glyph of warding with a fire spell embedded in it", while the wizard goes "how did I miss that?". While, in my opinion, the wizard should NOT miss it. To me it adds narrative dissonance and makes the wizard feel like they wasted the time and resources to be good at arcana when even the barbarian can obviously figure it out. So, unless the party is in a hurry and being chased or with some other constraint that would prevent the use of a passive skill, I would just narrate the wizard examining the rune and what they find. If the barbarian wants to look too, they can roll for it and likely confirm what the wizard saw if they roll high enough. Just having everyone roll dice for anything that comes up really doesn't make the game better or add tension in my opinion.
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Last comment .. I have a level 17 character now ... 12 rogue/5 warlock ... devils sight/darkvision ... observant feat, expertise in both investigation and perception, 12 int, 14 wis ... modifiers on investigation and perception rolled are +13 investigation, +14 perception with +18 and +19 on passive skills for 28/29 passive investigation/perception and with reliable talent the lowest rolls they can make are 23/24 investigation/perception. Even by level 9, their passive perception was 25. It was fun playing a character that was able to spot traps, secret doors, figure out how to open them and was generally useful to the party (we were playing Tomb of Annihilation (started from level 1) and it was a really useful skill to have by the end of the module). However, it didn't disrupt anyone else, it was generally pretty appreciated since no one wanted to step into a deadly trap, and other characters were better at other things like casting spells or doing damage - so rather than be disruptive, it just became a part of the character in the campaign.
P.S. Off topic: Stealth on this character is a +18 with 22 dex and +12 from expertise with a minimum 28 rolled. However, this is NOT an issue either since both the DM and I know that you can't hide if there is nothing to hide behind. Give the character some sort of cover and other creatures won't be able to figure out what he is up to or when he is going to attack but if they walk around the corner or look behind the tree, the character isn't hidden any more. A character can't hide when they are clearly seen ... which solves most of the issues surrounding having a high stealth ability.
I have a similar situation with a player with a pretty high passive perception (not THAT high though) and what I have found seems to be working is basically doing double skill checks. Their perception lets them spot something, but it doesn't really tell them anything about it, so I make them do a history or arcana or investigation etc check to gain understanding about the thing. I have also adapted to it by increasing the amount of things the see or spot with their perception, to include not just the important thing or clue, but several mundane unrelated things. In addition to whatever the macguffin is, they also find an interesting ring, an old dagger with unknown wording on it, a mysterious not with an unlabeled map attached. So then they have to still figure out which thing is the important thing and how it needs to be used.
And that is the problem; when your player says "my passive is 23 so do I see this?" you should reply with "Well, what is it that you doing?"
The expectation should not be Passive Perception is like Spidey-Sense, a disturbance in The Force, or Robocop's POV. It isn't automatic. It is a result from engaging in an activity and if it reasonable that the character could perceive this element based on the activity.
If this character was still suffering the condition of being blind or deaf, drunk and failing at hitting on the party's sorcerer, or in an intense debate with the bard over the correct pronunciation of "Bahamut"; then it is fair to rule the character's Passive Perception is at a disadvantage, does not apply and the player must roll the check, or the character may not be able to make the check at all. The point is the activities the character is engaging in or able to engage in will impact their abilities.
So take this example:
The party infiltrates the quarters of the Wizard of the Royal Court. They are able to quietly secure the door close to the main hallway and the quarters are empty. The quarters consists of two rooms: one being a rectangle 25'x40' and leading into an adjacent room that is round with a 20' diameter. There is no door that separates these rooms. The rectangular room consists of simple furniture, a dining area, a fireplace, and some bookshelves. The round room has an area with a workbench and laboratory equipment and at the farthest point there is a small raised platform that houses a bed and some clothing cupboards.
If the player with the Passive 23 decides to run and check out the platform with the bed, they may discover that some of the panels are loose and not secure. This could lead to them investigating for a hidden compartment. But that doesn't mean they noticed the dirty plates have the remains of breakfast, that there is a charred parchment in back of the fireplace, and that the workbench has three interesting artifacts. The character needs to demonstrate they are looking around these areas, and if another character beats them to that location they get priority to do the perception check.
Overall, make the character state an action and their passive perception only applies to discovers that are relevant to that action. If they scout ahead, then they cant' tell if the party is being followed. If they are searching for a secret door then they cannot be looking out for monsters. If they are in another room and the sorcerer fails a perception while looking over some trinkets the party found, the player shouldn't yell out "What about my 23?"; and if they do then remind them they are not in a position to be looking over these trinkets.
Get the table out of the habit of just asking to make "an ability check" and require them to describe how the character is engaging in an activity. From there you can determine if an ability check applies. This allows the player to continue to have the Passive 23 but boundaries are set, and they have to rely on other characters' perception.
First question is what are you using Passive Perception for? It's Passive so the player never gets to initiate it - it should only be used when you the DM have something occurring and want to give players a chance to observe it. Sounds like you are already doing that though and the main issue is that Player A always sees everything that no one else sees, and everyone else is useless as far as Passive Perception goes
A couple solutions that I use there are a) always ask for Passive Perception rolls (so the 23 becomes +13 and now they're really strong but not automatically the best on every single check), and b) ask specific characters to roll Passive Perception depending on who would be "in position to see it" (this might be the whole party, might be the front/back/middle of the marching order, might just be completely random on my whim, etc)
I have two comments.
First, if I ask for a check and a player does anything other than roll a die and give me a number, I ignore what they are saying. I asked for a check, and until I get a check Im not continuing or engaging. I try not to get aggravated, just prompt the player to give me the number so the game can move on.
More generally, I alread use character proficiencies when giving descriptions, so if a player asks something like "I have passive perception, do I see anything", my answer is, 'You see what I've just described." If the player repeats themself then I respond with sarcasm. :-)
"Oh, you have Passive Perception 23? I guess I should write that on the little piece of card in front of me. Oh, wait, look, I already have it written down on the little piece of card in front of me. I guess I already know your character has Passive Perception 23 which is why I used it in the description I gave to you not two minutes ago."
Heh heh.
Second, remember that Perception is all about things you perceive. Things you see, hear, smell and feel. Not things you know or deduce.
Perception cannot find a secret door. Perception can find circular scratches in the floor, or a faint breeze, or a mismatch in the paint colour on a certain patch on the wall. The players have to work out what's there from the perceptible things. Probably by using Investigation. Oh, you all dumped Int and no-one took Investigation? Well, that was silly wasn't it.
That character with the awesome Wisdom (Perception) is like Sherlock Holmes who looks at a person once and notices the wear and tear of ther clothes, the colour of a tattoo, the chalk dust between their fingers, and so on.
The character needs an awesome Intelligence (Investigation) to get the other half of the Sherlock Holmes deduction coolness - knowing that the particular tattoo is only found in Shanghai, knowing that chalk dust between the fingers indicates a snooker player, knowing that the wear and tear on the clothes indicates the person is down on their luck, and finally knowing that there is a snooker parlour on the docks frequented by Chinese sailors and that the parlour's owner is a loan shark, so maybe this person owes them a lot of money.