I have a major NPC who serves Kelemvor, but I think he works better as a warlock than a cleric, and I’m wondering what reasons a god might have for entering a pact with a warlock rather than imbuing a cleric with divine power.
Well, I’m the warlock class description it say, “beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods.”
But since we’re past that. Maybe the god just needed someone to do a single job for them, and decided to give them the necessary tools to do that job. But they didn’t want to go all in with the full compliment of cleric powers, so go with warlock powers. Maybe they do t trust them completely, or they don’t want to anger their actual clerics.
That said, I think the more important thing to remember is NPCs don’t follow PC rules. Just make the person be able to do whatever you need them to be able to do for the story. You want a cleric who can eldritch blast, and cast disguise self at will, they can.
I mean, the whole god/ not god distinction is kind of weird any way.
In my opinion the key difference is the warlock trades for power while the cleric is granted it. The warlock isn't necessarily directly channeling power from the entity but the entity may have simply taught them magic, imbued them with power or gave them a powerful item. There's also a little bit of borrowing power from beings other than your patron for example with spells like Hunger of Hadar which as the name and spell description suggests, uses the power of Hadar, similarly with tomb of levisitus ect... In that way a warlock is not necessarily as dedicated to their patron as a cleric. The patron has to force service some how.
In terms of mechanics use what ever you want and call it what ever you want but thematically the cleric is more about service and the warlock is more about trying to get one up on powerful entities.
If we're gonna go from official D&D 5e stuff, a quick read through the cleric and warlock class descriptions can give you a pretty quick answer. Clerics are absolutely dedicated to the god they serve, and they embody what their god represents. They are chosen by gods not because of mortal matters, but divine will. Every cleric is destined for something great in the name of their god. On the other hand, warlocks are people that have made a pact with a being that is not a god, yet still has a power that cannot be matched by mortals, or at least, low level mortals. Warlocks view their pact with their patron as a steppingstone to greatness, using the magic granted through that connection to further their own desires, with the addition of being held by contract to do as their patron wishes.
In short? Clerics are chosen by gods, dedicated to gods, use godly magic, and are basically the Pope but holier and deadlier. On the other hand, warlocks basically sign an employment contract with a supermortal being that grants them a bit of their power in exchange for really, really flexible work hours.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
My 2cp worth...take the Celestial Warlock. Have the NPC be an agent for a celestial who serves Kelemvor such as a particularly powerful Solar, Deva or a literal Angel of Death. That way the NPC is working for Kelemvor by proxy rather than being in direct contact.
I can think of a few reasons why Kelemvor would want a warlock:
Kelemvor's faithful are thinly stretched or have taken drastic casualties lately. He needs someone now, and will pay in power for the work.
He's well known in the setting as the arbiter of the dead, and the consequences of ill-deeds in life are well documented. People petition Him to do His bidding in return for a more favourable judgement when they die.
The NPC has lost someone to an enemy of Kelemvor, and wanted revenge. Though the NPC does not worship Kelemvor, they appreciate the mutual benefits of the pact.
The NPC was a priest of Kelemvor before losing faith in a cold, dispassionate god. However, that doesn't mean he can't perform Kelemvor's divine work to both their benefit.
Kelemvor has introduced a new policy: those who do His bidding in life can redeem another in death. The NPC has someone whose soul they want to save.
In this particular setting, 'death gods' are not seen as a positive force and their worship is taboo. One can't openly wear a holy symbol of their god, but they can channel Kelemvor's magic in other ways...
Kelemvor, unfeeling as He is, does not ask for worship. He commands people to do His bidding, benefitting them in the process. The upsides are purely accidental. The NPC is one of Kelemvor's chosen, whether they like it or not.
The NPC thinks they've entered into a pact with Kelemvor. This is untrue; only Jergal, Kelemvor's Seneschal, would stoop to such a low deed.
I hope that can provide some inspiration. ^^
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
I can think of a few reasons why Kelemvor would want a warlock:
Kelemvor's faithful are thinly stretched or have taken drastic casualties lately. He needs someone now, and will pay in power for the work.
He's well known in the setting as the arbiter of the dead, and the consequences of ill-deeds in life are well documented. People petition Him to do His bidding in return for a more favourable judgement when they die.
The NPC has lost someone to an enemy of Kelemvor, and wanted revenge. Though the NPC does not worship Kelemvor, they appreciate the mutual benefits of the pact.
The NPC was a priest of Kelemvor before losing faith in a cold, dispassionate god. However, that doesn't mean he can't perform Kelemvor's divine work to both their benefit.
Kelemvor has introduced a new policy: those who do His bidding in life can redeem another in death. The NPC has someone whose soul they want to save.
In this particular setting, 'death gods' are not seen as a positive force and their worship is taboo. One can't openly wear a holy symbol of their god, but they can channel Kelemvor's magic in other ways...
Kelemvor, unfeeling as He is, does not ask for worship. He commands people to do His bidding, benefitting them in the process. The upsides are purely accidental. The NPC is one of Kelemvor's chosen, whether they like it or not.
The NPC thinks they've entered into a pact with Kelemvor. This is untrue; only Jergal, Kelemvor's Seneschal, would stoop to such a low deed.
I hope that can provide some inspiration. ^^
ooh, getting strong Lois McMaster Bujold World of the Five Gods vibes! she wrote a number of books in a seemingly low magic world where it's a very, very well kept (dangerous!) secret that someone possessed by one of the white god's demons might form a pact and do miraculous feats. maybe. if they aren't overcome by the demon, go berserk, and then be consequently hunted down and banished to hell. stands to reason they would be closely watched by friends and enemies of (and in) the church both. i hadn't thought of the possession situation as a patron sort of deal before; however, i'm suddenly seeing a great deal of story to tell in the spaces between. what with the entirely silent (and often misunderstood) patron diety communicating missions almost entirely through happenstance and chance encounters with clerics of the other gods (with oftentimes clearer missions but having hit a roadblock) and the helpful-for-now sentient manifestation of power sat undetectable inside the possessed's head who takes turns borrowing their mouth at sometimes inopportune moments.
lots to think about...
edit: not that this is the right place to spend more text, but these above connections drove me to google into the theology of the 5GU (five gods universe) for a refersher and, wouldn't you know it, i landed immediately upon this blurb of a blog entry by the author which made me laugh: "A lot of readers, I observe in reviews, seem to be tone-deaf to serious theological matters, taking their notions of religion from D&D games I suppose..."
The pact isn't necessarily made directly with the deity. It might be with the servant of a deity. The Celestial warlock is the servant of a powerful being of the upper planes.
Now why would Kelemvor or an agent of his make a warlock pact instead of producing a cleric? Probably because the recipient is allowed to have free will and wanted to make a pact for mutual benefit, not enter servitude.
Well generally, as you view how the classes work and obtain their power in general can be summed up quickly in a few words: Ongoing communion Vs. Transaction. Taking out whether the entity is a god or not (there are some things scarier and overall more powerful than gods and some things not as powerful but are not defined as gods either).
That said, Warlocks take what can essentially be viewed as having a counterpart spark of arcane power rather than divine for the purpose of both helping a supernatural being complete an objective and often for personal growth. I can see many advantages to having both Clerics and Warlocks serve you or your own divine entourage of beings. Readily making a deal with a prospective arcanist for one. The power is permanent for them without any needed discipline on their part besides fulfilling an objective in most cases, and sometimes not even that (A favor may be called in eventually once the warlock has grown in might). They’re a free agent at their core and can more readily complete work a cleric may not touch from a story driven perspective. It generally depends on what you as a DM/GM feel is appropriate based on the objectives of the particular higher power and whether you want gods to also have warlocks or supposed non-gods to have clerics.
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I have a major NPC who serves Kelemvor, but I think he works better as a warlock than a cleric, and I’m wondering what reasons a god might have for entering a pact with a warlock rather than imbuing a cleric with divine power.
Well, I’m the warlock class description it say, “beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods.”
But since we’re past that. Maybe the god just needed someone to do a single job for them, and decided to give them the necessary tools to do that job. But they didn’t want to go all in with the full compliment of cleric powers, so go with warlock powers. Maybe they do t trust them completely, or they don’t want to anger their actual clerics.
That said, I think the more important thing to remember is NPCs don’t follow PC rules. Just make the person be able to do whatever you need them to be able to do for the story. You want a cleric who can eldritch blast, and cast disguise self at will, they can.
I mean, the whole god/ not god distinction is kind of weird any way.
In my opinion the key difference is the warlock trades for power while the cleric is granted it. The warlock isn't necessarily directly channeling power from the entity but the entity may have simply taught them magic, imbued them with power or gave them a powerful item. There's also a little bit of borrowing power from beings other than your patron for example with spells like Hunger of Hadar which as the name and spell description suggests, uses the power of Hadar, similarly with tomb of levisitus ect... In that way a warlock is not necessarily as dedicated to their patron as a cleric. The patron has to force service some how.
In terms of mechanics use what ever you want and call it what ever you want but thematically the cleric is more about service and the warlock is more about trying to get one up on powerful entities.
If we're gonna go from official D&D 5e stuff, a quick read through the cleric and warlock class descriptions can give you a pretty quick answer. Clerics are absolutely dedicated to the god they serve, and they embody what their god represents. They are chosen by gods not because of mortal matters, but divine will. Every cleric is destined for something great in the name of their god. On the other hand, warlocks are people that have made a pact with a being that is not a god, yet still has a power that cannot be matched by mortals, or at least, low level mortals. Warlocks view their pact with their patron as a steppingstone to greatness, using the magic granted through that connection to further their own desires, with the addition of being held by contract to do as their patron wishes.
In short? Clerics are chosen by gods, dedicated to gods, use godly magic, and are basically the Pope but holier and deadlier. On the other hand, warlocks basically sign an employment contract with a supermortal being that grants them a bit of their power in exchange for really, really flexible work hours.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
My 2cp worth...take the Celestial Warlock. Have the NPC be an agent for a celestial who serves Kelemvor such as a particularly powerful Solar, Deva or a literal Angel of Death. That way the NPC is working for Kelemvor by proxy rather than being in direct contact.
I can think of a few reasons why Kelemvor would want a warlock:
I hope that can provide some inspiration. ^^
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
ooh, getting strong Lois McMaster Bujold World of the Five Gods vibes! she wrote a number of books in a seemingly low magic world where it's a very, very well kept (dangerous!) secret that someone possessed by one of the white god's demons might form a pact and do miraculous feats. maybe. if they aren't overcome by the demon, go berserk, and then be consequently hunted down and banished to hell. stands to reason they would be closely watched by friends and enemies of (and in) the church both. i hadn't thought of the possession situation as a patron sort of deal before; however, i'm suddenly seeing a great deal of story to tell in the spaces between. what with the entirely silent (and often misunderstood) patron diety communicating missions almost entirely through happenstance and chance encounters with clerics of the other gods (with oftentimes clearer missions but having hit a roadblock) and the helpful-for-now sentient manifestation of power sat undetectable inside the possessed's head who takes turns borrowing their mouth at sometimes inopportune moments.
lots to think about...
edit: not that this is the right place to spend more text, but these above connections drove me to google into the theology of the 5GU (five gods universe) for a refersher and, wouldn't you know it, i landed immediately upon this blurb of a blog entry by the author which made me laugh: "A lot of readers, I observe in reviews, seem to be tone-deaf to serious theological matters, taking their notions of religion from D&D games I suppose..."
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The pact isn't necessarily made directly with the deity. It might be with the servant of a deity. The Celestial warlock is the servant of a powerful being of the upper planes.
Now why would Kelemvor or an agent of his make a warlock pact instead of producing a cleric? Probably because the recipient is allowed to have free will and wanted to make a pact for mutual benefit, not enter servitude.
Well generally, as you view how the classes work and obtain their power in general can be summed up quickly in a few words: Ongoing communion Vs. Transaction. Taking out whether the entity is a god or not (there are some things scarier and overall more powerful than gods and some things not as powerful but are not defined as gods either).
That said, Warlocks take what can essentially be viewed as having a counterpart spark of arcane power rather than divine for the purpose of both helping a supernatural being complete an objective and often for personal growth. I can see many advantages to having both Clerics and Warlocks serve you or your own divine entourage of beings. Readily making a deal with a prospective arcanist for one. The power is permanent for them without any needed discipline on their part besides fulfilling an objective in most cases, and sometimes not even that (A favor may be called in eventually once the warlock has grown in might). They’re a free agent at their core and can more readily complete work a cleric may not touch from a story driven perspective. It generally depends on what you as a DM/GM feel is appropriate based on the objectives of the particular higher power and whether you want gods to also have warlocks or supposed non-gods to have clerics.