DM'ing a homebrewed world campaign where my PCs will be accidentally sent back in time to, effectively, the pre-Days of Thunder era. Very primordial, very sandboxy. They seem pretty stoked!
One of the challenges of the world is that it's going to change how the PCs think about magic. Basically, they're in a time where most of the gods haven't come into form or being yet, except for Selune and Shar (albeit in early iterations of themselves), and in demigod form a few of the others which the PCs can/will interact with. Magic is wild and everywhere, having not yet undergone the management of Mystryl (who, in this world, has yet to take on much of a conscious form; the PCs' actions will, unbeknownst to them, end up leading to her embodiment).
To that end, and borrowing the terminology in the OneDnD playtest, I'm structuring magic to be in three tiered forms: Primal, Arcane, and Divine. Primal magic - the stuff of druids and such - is unaffected. I thought about buffing it but that seemed too favoriting for the druid PC. Arcane is challenged as there aren't schools of magic per se, so I'm thinking to just borrow the sorcerer's wild magic table and basically treat all my players with having to roll on the Wild Magic table for any leveled spells. I've got a wizard and bard PCs, and I think they'll be cool with that challenge (and I'll prolly have the druid do it too just for uniformity).
Where I'm struggling though is with Divine magics, as I have a paladin PC. His god exists but is weaker, younger, and, in any case, won't know him – he's from their future after all. Since Paladins draw their power from their god, the on-paper ruling seems to be "you don't have magic - find someone who can empower you." Which is a miniarc within the campaign, but it also seems not fun to say to them "you can't smite or cure wounds or channel divinity yet".
We're playing collaboratively on rules, so in Session 2-3 when the PCs are sent back in time and realize that they're playing in that world, we'll discuss the rules we want to adopt. But they're also looking to me as the DM and the homebrewer to have some things sorted or at least ideas. The easiest thing is likely to just shrug it off and say the Paladin also rolls on the Wild Magic table, or the slightly-more-challenging beat-the-DC-to-successfully-cast-the-spell, which can be negated if they find their god or another god to empower them.
Any other DMs have some thoughts on this and what might be a fun barrier/challenge for a paladin in this setting?
Paladins RAW don't get their magic from gods. If that's how you want to homebrew that's fine, but I'm pretty sure their magic comes from their vow / oath itself. You can play up that aspect for the paladin, let them know that it's the paladin's force of will and exertion that allows them to cast magic.
I would highly recommend against taking all their magic away, unless you very specifically get their approval to do something like that ahead of time.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I mean I suppose it depends on how you read this from the OneDnD playtest:
"A Divine Spell draws on the power of gods and the Outer Planes. Clerics and Paladins harness this magic."
I'd say "draws on the power of gods" is a bit more specific than saying a pally's magic comes from their oath, even before I start to homebrew it.
But yeah, I don't want to take away the magic wholesale as that seems like a disproportionate burden to put on the paladin without their buy-in. So a more balanced challenge to their magic use, when the "power of gods" is less predictable or potent.
I mean I suppose it depends on how you read this from the OneDnD playtest:
"A Divine Spell draws on the power of gods and the Outer Planes. Clerics and Paladins harness this magic."
I'd say "draws on the power of gods" is a bit more specific than saying a pally's magic comes from their oath, even before I start to homebrew it.
Actually, it says that divine spells draw on the power both of the gods and of the Outer Planes themselves. I don't remember what the paladin description from 1D&D says, but in 5e at least their power is definitely tied to (at least) their oaths, not (necessarily) a god. 'Power from loyalty to an oath" sounds very Outer-Planes-y to me. 'Course, you can do whatever you want in your world, as has already been said.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Hm, you both are right following RAW. Seems a little cheeky to say "I made this sacred oath and it empowers me to smite you", but then again bards can do all sorts of magical things by learning how to play a lute and sing a song.
Well, that actually might solve the issue in some respects. If a god isn't strictly necessary, then I could treat a paladin's powers the same as anyone else's for the purpose of making magic weird for the game; gods being one, but not the only one, way they can be empowered.
Hm, you both are right following RAW. Seems a little cheeky to say "I made this sacred oath and it empowers me to smite you", but then again bards can do all sorts of magical things by learning how to play a lute and sing a song.
Well, that actually might solve the issue in some respects. If a god isn't strictly necessary, then I could treat a paladin's powers the same as anyone else's for the purpose of making magic weird for the game; gods being one, but not the only one, way they can be empowered.
What you could do (and actually what I might do in future) is require that the oath be initially approved by a god, and the paladin then doesn't rely on the god for power, just the divine oath.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
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DM'ing a homebrewed world campaign where my PCs will be accidentally sent back in time to, effectively, the pre-Days of Thunder era. Very primordial, very sandboxy. They seem pretty stoked!
One of the challenges of the world is that it's going to change how the PCs think about magic. Basically, they're in a time where most of the gods haven't come into form or being yet, except for Selune and Shar (albeit in early iterations of themselves), and in demigod form a few of the others which the PCs can/will interact with. Magic is wild and everywhere, having not yet undergone the management of Mystryl (who, in this world, has yet to take on much of a conscious form; the PCs' actions will, unbeknownst to them, end up leading to her embodiment).
To that end, and borrowing the terminology in the OneDnD playtest, I'm structuring magic to be in three tiered forms: Primal, Arcane, and Divine. Primal magic - the stuff of druids and such - is unaffected. I thought about buffing it but that seemed too favoriting for the druid PC. Arcane is challenged as there aren't schools of magic per se, so I'm thinking to just borrow the sorcerer's wild magic table and basically treat all my players with having to roll on the Wild Magic table for any leveled spells. I've got a wizard and bard PCs, and I think they'll be cool with that challenge (and I'll prolly have the druid do it too just for uniformity).
Where I'm struggling though is with Divine magics, as I have a paladin PC. His god exists but is weaker, younger, and, in any case, won't know him – he's from their future after all. Since Paladins draw their power from their god, the on-paper ruling seems to be "you don't have magic - find someone who can empower you." Which is a miniarc within the campaign, but it also seems not fun to say to them "you can't smite or cure wounds or channel divinity yet".
We're playing collaboratively on rules, so in Session 2-3 when the PCs are sent back in time and realize that they're playing in that world, we'll discuss the rules we want to adopt. But they're also looking to me as the DM and the homebrewer to have some things sorted or at least ideas. The easiest thing is likely to just shrug it off and say the Paladin also rolls on the Wild Magic table, or the slightly-more-challenging beat-the-DC-to-successfully-cast-the-spell, which can be negated if they find their god or another god to empower them.
Any other DMs have some thoughts on this and what might be a fun barrier/challenge for a paladin in this setting?
Paladins RAW don't get their magic from gods. If that's how you want to homebrew that's fine, but I'm pretty sure their magic comes from their vow / oath itself. You can play up that aspect for the paladin, let them know that it's the paladin's force of will and exertion that allows them to cast magic.
I would highly recommend against taking all their magic away, unless you very specifically get their approval to do something like that ahead of time.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I mean I suppose it depends on how you read this from the OneDnD playtest:
"A Divine Spell draws on the power of gods and the Outer Planes. Clerics and Paladins harness this magic."
I'd say "draws on the power of gods" is a bit more specific than saying a pally's magic comes from their oath, even before I start to homebrew it.
But yeah, I don't want to take away the magic wholesale as that seems like a disproportionate burden to put on the paladin without their buy-in. So a more balanced challenge to their magic use, when the "power of gods" is less predictable or potent.
Actually, it says that divine spells draw on the power both of the gods and of the Outer Planes themselves. I don't remember what the paladin description from 1D&D says, but in 5e at least their power is definitely tied to (at least) their oaths, not (necessarily) a god. 'Power from loyalty to an oath" sounds very Outer-Planes-y to me. 'Course, you can do whatever you want in your world, as has already been said.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Hm, you both are right following RAW. Seems a little cheeky to say "I made this sacred oath and it empowers me to smite you", but then again bards can do all sorts of magical things by learning how to play a lute and sing a song.
Well, that actually might solve the issue in some respects. If a god isn't strictly necessary, then I could treat a paladin's powers the same as anyone else's for the purpose of making magic weird for the game; gods being one, but not the only one, way they can be empowered.
What you could do (and actually what I might do in future) is require that the oath be initially approved by a god, and the paladin then doesn't rely on the god for power, just the divine oath.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.