I did it once to avoid aeo dammage it felt wrong so now my go to is if a baf thing is going to risk ending a session with no closure I'll ajjust tge dc or the stat blocks because sometimes RAW blocks or DCs can pit your party against a dark souls game(tough with alot of set backs) when really they want morrowind fun(tough but progession is made slowly)
I generally don't fudge rolls, but I adjust depending on my friends' situation in life. Like... I had a friend who recently lost her job and just desperately wanted to play D&D to distract her from a plethora of additional stressors that were stressing her out. I didn't try to cater the game to her or anything, but she reached a point where the big, final hit in a major combat against a character deeply tied to her backstory came down to a saving throw from a spell she cast. The target or her spell actually succeeded on the roll, but they were low enough on HP that whoever landed a successful hit would have killed them anyway... I decided to just fudge the roll, let the bad guy fail, and let her have that moment of triumph to help get her out of her funk.
You can probably tell that the story I just told was full of caveats. But I think that's generally the truth of dice fudging. If you're doing it just to "win", you're a pathetic loser. But if you're doing it to make the game more fun and engaging for your players, well... that's just being a good DM.
I don't fudge rolls as a DM i usually roll wherever i stand when i DM in person and i'm not at my table (i move a lot when DMing), or make rolls publicly when playing on virtual tables.
Yeah i only changed our game as it's session 4 and the leap from session 3 was huge
S1 we fought rats easy enough
S2 it was mimics and animated armour
S3 was a big leap to a red wuizard spirit
S4 was 8 bandits all at once they had 18 hp we kept getting low rolls PLUS i had to do a secret d6 roll and ad 3 this was turrns untill sunset i got it to 8 after which our cargo would break free it was a vampire
I didn't think we'd survive both as a new group so i changed the bandits too a lower hp as i would rather a new player here you go back to town and get a gp bonus than you are dead
I think the decision to fudge has to be a situational one.
Think of fudging as a tool in the kit...maybe a rubber mallet. When you're working on a car it's not often you're going to need a mallet, but when you do you're glad you've got it. Fudging is a bit like that. Frankly, it minimises the tools in your GM kit if you draw a hard line and say you never fudge. However, if you fudge a roll without reason, cause or purpose then it can cause larger issues.
The question then to my mind isn't should a GM fudge or not...it's when and why a GM should choose to fudge. Thinking about that mallet analogy - When is fudging the right tool for the job?
I did it once to avoid aeo dammage it felt wrong so now my go to is if a baf thing is going to risk ending a session with no closure I'll ajjust tge dc or the stat blocks because sometimes RAW blocks or DCs can pit your party against a dark souls game(tough with alot of set backs) when really they want morrowind fun(tough but progession is made slowly)
There are no circumstances where cheating on the rolls is acceptable, either as a DM or player. None.
I did it once to avoid aeo dammage it felt wrong so now my go to is if a baf thing is going to risk ending a session with no closure I'll ajjust tge dc or the stat blocks because sometimes RAW blocks or DCs can pit your party against a dark souls game(tough with alot of set backs) when really they want morrowind fun(tough but progession is made slowly)
There are no circumstances where cheating on the rolls is acceptable, either as a DM or player. None.
Just a to respond and interject that this is a philosophical difference. Some people see fudging as cheating, some do not. That is a line that you as a DM should draw for yourself. It'll be based off your experience. I'd also add in that asking your players what they think (especially as fudging often is in players' favour) is a good way to proceed.
This is a viewpoint difference...I'd suggest that the OP decides for themselves if they and their table consider fudging to be cheating or not.
I did it once to avoid aeo dammage it felt wrong so now my go to is if a baf thing is going to risk ending a session with no closure I'll ajjust tge dc or the stat blocks because sometimes RAW blocks or DCs can pit your party against a dark souls game(tough with alot of set backs) when really they want morrowind fun(tough but progession is made slowly)
There are no circumstances where cheating on the rolls is acceptable, either as a DM or player. None.
Just a to respond and interject that this is a philosophical difference. Some people see fudging as cheating, some do not. That is a line that you as a DM should draw for yourself. It'll be based off your experience. I'd also add in that asking your players what they think (especially as fudging often is in players' favour) is a good way to proceed.
This is a viewpoint difference...I'd suggest that the OP decides for themselves if they and their table consider fudging to be cheating or not.
To cheat on rolls is to cheat the players of the actual experience of the game. If a DM cheats on rolls and kills a PC, people would lose their minds. It is equally bad if a DM cheats on rolls to protect a PC from bad luck, or worse, bad decisions by the player.
To me fudging rolls is cheating and lying. If as a DM i determine that an attack or task's success is uncertain enought to warrant a die roll, i will make a roll and if i do, i will stick to the result. Rolling but ignoring the result to instead determine it myself when i can do so without rolling just intruduce an unecessary step in between and lying about it.
To me fudging rolls is cheating and lying. If as a DM i determine that an attack or task's success is uncertain enought to warrant a die roll, i will make a roll and if i do, i will stick to the result. Rolling but ignoring the result to instead determine it myself when i can do so without rolling just intruduce an unecessary step in between and lying about it.
Exactly. If the DM has a predetermined outcome in mind, why bother rolling? If the chars can't die (and this is what it fundamentally always boils down to), then just say so, and let those that hate that type of game walk away.
Once or twice I have downgraded a crit to a hit as DM to avoid aTPK, but in general I avoid fudging dice. I do consider it now and again, I’ve had boss fights where I missed attacks 5 turns in a row, never rolling higher than a 5 but I usually just concede that sometimes the dice are cold. Part if the social contract is that ALL the players are honest in rolling dice, as if I thought my players were cheating it would kill the game. As such, like I said I very rarely do it, I wouldn’t turn a hit into a miss but I have turned a crit into a regular hit as I feel one shotting weaker characters isn’t much fun for the player either.
This has gone around a dozen or more times in the last year (and likely every year prior as well) Essentially, it's up to the DM and the group if it is viable and a good idea, and entirely in the DM's hands. There are some who will say it's cheating and ruining the game, and that's fine, as long as they understand they feel it will ruin THEIR game. Nobody can speak for what will make or break YOUR game but you and your players, Ignore the folks who rag on the practice and recognize they have a fixed set of rules THEY need to play under. Their comments may seem harsh and derogatory, but that tends to happen when you are convinced you're right, based on only your own experiences and situations. An inability to see anything but your own opinion isn't a sign of being right.
I fudge rolls on rare occasions, when the dice gods are vengeful and full of malice. Both ways, to be clear. If my monsters can't roll above a 4 for a couple rounds, you can be sure in round 3 they will be landing some hits. Similar, if they can't seem to miss and are landing crits left and right, some of those high rolls will result in a 12 to hit...... Now after 3-ish years of playing and DM-ing, I think I may have fudged 3 or 4 rolls, so it's pretty clear to me it isn't needed very often. Also to note, I count allowing a kill before my paper reads the monster at 0 as fudging the rolls and that has happened twice. So 1 or 2 actual rolls fudged and 2 monsters who "died" at around 10-ish HP left.
I only even consider it when things have gone to extreme levels of good or poor luck. I have, on occasion considered changing something on the fly when an encounter started poorly and it looked like I may have overestimated my party, but in fact, those situations have ended up with the fight a lot closer than I anticipated as opposed to the TPK I thought possible at the start. Sometimes the party can surprise you, lol.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
in 2014 just after i got the the core books we ran our first session in 5e the first encounter 6 goblins vs 5 party members the goblins had both surprise and cover. The surprise round 3 critical hits, 2 hits and a miss from the goblins, The Cleric, Fighter, Warlock , and Ranger were all down leaving the Rogue on their own for initiative. Roll initiative the goblins won initiative by a wide margin as my players dice were cold. I fudged the second round of combat and the rogue played to her strengths and dispatched the goblins one by one rather than running into the kill box. Cleric self stabilized and stabilized the others in short order. The party came back from the brink and the game went on.
If i had not fudged the second round of combat the campaign would have died before it really began.
Having said that every DM has to find their own way. If you don't want to fudge rolls that is entirely up to you as a DM. None of us are the final arbiter of what actually experiencing the game is. That is a subject for you and your players to decide.
This has gone around a dozen or more times in the last year (and likely every year prior as well) Essentially, it's up to the DM and the group if it is viable and a good idea, and entirely in the DM's hands. There are some who will say it's cheating and ruining the game, and that's fine, as long as they understand they feel it will ruin THEIR game. Nobody can speak for what will make or break YOUR game but you and your players, Ignore the folks who rag on the practice and recognize they have a fixed set of rules THEY need to play under. Their comments may seem harsh and derogatory, but that tends to happen when you are convinced you're right, based on only your own experiences and situations. An inability to see anything but your own opinion isn't a sign of being right.
I fudge rolls on rare occasions, when the dice gods are vengeful and full of malice. Both ways, to be clear. If my monsters can't roll above a 4 for a couple rounds, you can be sure in round 3 they will be landing some hits. Similar, if they can't seem to miss and are landing crits left and right, some of those high rolls will result in a 12 to hit...... Now after 3-ish years of playing and DM-ing, I think I may have fudged 3 or 4 rolls, so it's pretty clear to me it isn't needed very often. Also to note, I count allowing a kill before my paper reads the monster at 0 as fudging the rolls and that has happened twice. So 1 or 2 actual rolls fudged and 2 monsters who "died" at around 10-ish HP left.
I only even consider it when things have gone to extreme levels of good or poor luck. I have, on occasion considered changing something on the fly when an encounter started poorly and it looked like I may have overestimated my party, but in fact, those situations have ended up with the fight a lot closer than I anticipated as opposed to the TPK I thought possible at the start. Sometimes the party can surprise you, lol.
The problem with your logic is this: If players and DM's stuck with only one table for long periods of time, it would be fine. But every single person here knows that is not the case. Groups fire up, and dissolve. Long term games are the exception, not the norm. And the ideas at one table are cross-pollinated throughout the entire community that way. If a DM/table allows cheating on rolls at a table, those people then move on to another table and inject that idea at the new table. Suddenly a DM might have 3 of 5 players saying "cheating is OK".
The Dungeon Masters Guide has to say on the matter:
Dice Rolling
Establish expectations about rolling dice. Rolling in full view of everyone is a good starting point. If you see a player rolling and scooping the dice up before anyone else can see, encourage that player to be less secretive.
When a die falls on the floor, do you count it or reroll it? When it lands cocked against a book, do you pull the book away and see where it lands, or reroll it?
What about you, the DM? Do you make your rolls in the open or hide them behind a DM screen? Consider the following:
If you roll dice where the players can see, they know you’re playing impartially and not fudging rolls.
Rolling behind a screen keeps the players guessing about the strength of their opposition. When a monster hits all the time, is it of a much higher level than the characters, or are you rolling high numbers?
Rolling behind a screen lets you fudge the results if you want to. If two critical hits in a row would kill a character, you could change the second critical hit into a normal hit, or even a miss. Don’t distort die rolls too often, though, and don’t let on that you’re doing it. Otherwise, your players might think they don’t face any real risks — or worse, that you’re playing favorites.
A roll behind a screen can help preserve mystery. For example, if a player thinks there might be someone invisible nearby and makes a Wisdom (Perception) check, consider rolling a die behind the screen even if no one is there, making the player think someone is, indeed, hiding. Try not to overuse this trick.
You might choose to make a roll for a player because you don’t want the player to know how good the check total is. For example, if a player suspects a baroness might be charmed and wants to make a Wisdom (Insight) check, you could make the roll in secret for the player. If the player rolled and got a high number but didn’t sense anything amiss, the player would be confident that the baroness wasn’t charmed. With a low roll, a negative answer wouldn’t mean much. A hidden roll allows uncertainty.
Fudging for the DM is clearly NOT cheating, however we as DM's are exhorted not to abuse it
I have done it a handful of times over the years. Don't like doing it, and would rather not, but as some folks here have pointed out, I have done it to keep the players' stress level down to a manageable level. If I find myself feeling the pressure to do so, and it's the same person putting the table group in that position again, then I make a point to let the die fall as it may, from then on, and nip that sense of PC invulnerability in the bud. Truthfully, it's less stress on the DM to get those who can't except a character's death, dismemberment, polymorphism, etc., out of the campaign sooner than later. Otherwise one should just agree to make their PC invulnerable and call it good. Sounds boring to me, but that's my opinion.
I had second thoughts about making my encounter easier but my solution is to reuse the vampire sundown countdown later on once we all know how to run combat as a team
There are no circumstances where cheating on the rolls is acceptable, either as a DM or player. None.
Its not cheating maybe read the rules where it says sometime a DM needs to.....so if the rules say you might need to some times = not cheating.
From the DM guild:
Rolling behind a screen lets you fudge the results if you want to. If two critical hits in a row would kill a character, you could change the second critical hit into a normal hit, or even a miss. Don’t distort die rolls too often, though, and don’t let on that you’re doing it. Otherwise, your players might think they don’t face any real risks — or worse, that you’re playing favorites.
Whether or not you choose to fudge roles as a DM is 100% your choice per the rules, and is not cheating.
Now for my personal my opinion: In lower level game you almost have to, nobody wants the character they spent hours working on and getting ready for, maybe even buying and painting a mini for, killed in the first combat of the first game session because a giant sewer rat Crited three times in a row. Fudging should only be used in the players favor and only when absolutely necessary, but if you refuse to do it at all ever regardless of what it says in the rules you are probably a bad DM. In my experiences the DMs who say to never do it and that it is cheating are the same DMs who think they are playing against the players and are always trying to beat the players.
I sometimes reroll. If I realize that maybe 50d12 was a bit much for a goblin dagger attack (exaggerated). 😁 Sometimes I just take away an equal number of lows and highs or something. Sometimes I adjust modifiers on the fly, if players don't know them yet. That is more subtle imo.
But yeah, I do sometimes fudge. Never really to protect the players, but to fix my own mess ups.
In my book, GM's are allowed to fudge responsible. The aim of the game is to have fun, and the GM's primary responsibility is to ensure fun is had. So, if certain rolls would ruin the fun, it's allowable to change them.
Players, on the other hand, do not have that responsibility, and only really fudge to make their character do better. This is not allowed.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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do you fudge rolls?
I did it once to avoid aeo dammage it felt wrong so now my go to is if a baf thing is going to risk ending a session with no closure I'll ajjust tge dc or the stat blocks because sometimes RAW blocks or DCs can pit your party against a dark souls game(tough with alot of set backs) when really they want morrowind fun(tough but progession is made slowly)
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
I generally don't fudge rolls, but I adjust depending on my friends' situation in life. Like... I had a friend who recently lost her job and just desperately wanted to play D&D to distract her from a plethora of additional stressors that were stressing her out. I didn't try to cater the game to her or anything, but she reached a point where the big, final hit in a major combat against a character deeply tied to her backstory came down to a saving throw from a spell she cast. The target or her spell actually succeeded on the roll, but they were low enough on HP that whoever landed a successful hit would have killed them anyway... I decided to just fudge the roll, let the bad guy fail, and let her have that moment of triumph to help get her out of her funk.
You can probably tell that the story I just told was full of caveats. But I think that's generally the truth of dice fudging. If you're doing it just to "win", you're a pathetic loser. But if you're doing it to make the game more fun and engaging for your players, well... that's just being a good DM.
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I don't fudge rolls as a DM i usually roll wherever i stand when i DM in person and i'm not at my table (i move a lot when DMing), or make rolls publicly when playing on virtual tables.
Yeah i only changed our game as it's session 4 and the leap from session 3 was huge
S1 we fought rats easy enough
S2 it was mimics and animated armour
S3 was a big leap to a red wuizard spirit
S4 was 8 bandits all at once they had 18 hp we kept getting low rolls PLUS i had to do a secret d6 roll and ad 3 this was turrns untill sunset i got it to 8 after which our cargo would break free it was a vampire
I didn't think we'd survive both as a new group so i changed the bandits too a lower hp as i would rather a new player here you go back to town and get a gp bonus than you are dead
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
I think the decision to fudge has to be a situational one.
Think of fudging as a tool in the kit...maybe a rubber mallet. When you're working on a car it's not often you're going to need a mallet, but when you do you're glad you've got it. Fudging is a bit like that. Frankly, it minimises the tools in your GM kit if you draw a hard line and say you never fudge. However, if you fudge a roll without reason, cause or purpose then it can cause larger issues.
The question then to my mind isn't should a GM fudge or not...it's when and why a GM should choose to fudge. Thinking about that mallet analogy - When is fudging the right tool for the job?
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
There are no circumstances where cheating on the rolls is acceptable, either as a DM or player. None.
Just a to respond and interject that this is a philosophical difference. Some people see fudging as cheating, some do not. That is a line that you as a DM should draw for yourself. It'll be based off your experience. I'd also add in that asking your players what they think (especially as fudging often is in players' favour) is a good way to proceed.
This is a viewpoint difference...I'd suggest that the OP decides for themselves if they and their table consider fudging to be cheating or not.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
To cheat on rolls is to cheat the players of the actual experience of the game. If a DM cheats on rolls and kills a PC, people would lose their minds. It is equally bad if a DM cheats on rolls to protect a PC from bad luck, or worse, bad decisions by the player.
To me fudging rolls is cheating and lying. If as a DM i determine that an attack or task's success is uncertain enought to warrant a die roll, i will make a roll and if i do, i will stick to the result. Rolling but ignoring the result to instead determine it myself when i can do so without rolling just intruduce an unecessary step in between and lying about it.
Exactly. If the DM has a predetermined outcome in mind, why bother rolling? If the chars can't die (and this is what it fundamentally always boils down to), then just say so, and let those that hate that type of game walk away.
Once or twice I have downgraded a crit to a hit as DM to avoid aTPK, but in general I avoid fudging dice. I do consider it now and again, I’ve had boss fights where I missed attacks 5 turns in a row, never rolling higher than a 5 but I usually just concede that sometimes the dice are cold. Part if the social contract is that ALL the players are honest in rolling dice, as if I thought my players were cheating it would kill the game. As such, like I said I very rarely do it, I wouldn’t turn a hit into a miss but I have turned a crit into a regular hit as I feel one shotting weaker characters isn’t much fun for the player either.
This has gone around a dozen or more times in the last year (and likely every year prior as well) Essentially, it's up to the DM and the group if it is viable and a good idea, and entirely in the DM's hands. There are some who will say it's cheating and ruining the game, and that's fine, as long as they understand they feel it will ruin THEIR game. Nobody can speak for what will make or break YOUR game but you and your players, Ignore the folks who rag on the practice and recognize they have a fixed set of rules THEY need to play under. Their comments may seem harsh and derogatory, but that tends to happen when you are convinced you're right, based on only your own experiences and situations. An inability to see anything but your own opinion isn't a sign of being right.
I fudge rolls on rare occasions, when the dice gods are vengeful and full of malice. Both ways, to be clear. If my monsters can't roll above a 4 for a couple rounds, you can be sure in round 3 they will be landing some hits. Similar, if they can't seem to miss and are landing crits left and right, some of those high rolls will result in a 12 to hit...... Now after 3-ish years of playing and DM-ing, I think I may have fudged 3 or 4 rolls, so it's pretty clear to me it isn't needed very often. Also to note, I count allowing a kill before my paper reads the monster at 0 as fudging the rolls and that has happened twice. So 1 or 2 actual rolls fudged and 2 monsters who "died" at around 10-ish HP left.
I only even consider it when things have gone to extreme levels of good or poor luck. I have, on occasion considered changing something on the fly when an encounter started poorly and it looked like I may have overestimated my party, but in fact, those situations have ended up with the fight a lot closer than I anticipated as opposed to the TPK I thought possible at the start. Sometimes the party can surprise you, lol.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
in 2014 just after i got the the core books we ran our first session in 5e the first encounter 6 goblins vs 5 party members the goblins had both surprise and cover. The surprise round 3 critical hits, 2 hits and a miss from the goblins, The Cleric, Fighter, Warlock , and Ranger were all down leaving the Rogue on their own for initiative. Roll initiative the goblins won initiative by a wide margin as my players dice were cold. I fudged the second round of combat and the rogue played to her strengths and dispatched the goblins one by one rather than running into the kill box. Cleric self stabilized and stabilized the others in short order. The party came back from the brink and the game went on.
If i had not fudged the second round of combat the campaign would have died before it really began.
Having said that every DM has to find their own way. If you don't want to fudge rolls that is entirely up to you as a DM. None of us are the final arbiter of what actually experiencing the game is. That is a subject for you and your players to decide.
The problem with your logic is this: If players and DM's stuck with only one table for long periods of time, it would be fine. But every single person here knows that is not the case. Groups fire up, and dissolve. Long term games are the exception, not the norm. And the ideas at one table are cross-pollinated throughout the entire community that way. If a DM/table allows cheating on rolls at a table, those people then move on to another table and inject that idea at the new table. Suddenly a DM might have 3 of 5 players saying "cheating is OK".
The Dungeon Masters Guide has to say on the matter:
Dice Rolling
Establish expectations about rolling dice. Rolling in full view of everyone is a good starting point. If you see a player rolling and scooping the dice up before anyone else can see, encourage that player to be less secretive.
When a die falls on the floor, do you count it or reroll it? When it lands cocked against a book, do you pull the book away and see where it lands, or reroll it?
What about you, the DM? Do you make your rolls in the open or hide them behind a DM screen? Consider the following:
Fudging for the DM is clearly NOT cheating, however we as DM's are exhorted not to abuse it
I have done it a handful of times over the years. Don't like doing it, and would rather not, but as some folks here have pointed out, I have done it to keep the players' stress level down to a manageable level. If I find myself feeling the pressure to do so, and it's the same person putting the table group in that position again, then I make a point to let the die fall as it may, from then on, and nip that sense of PC invulnerability in the bud. Truthfully, it's less stress on the DM to get those who can't except a character's death, dismemberment, polymorphism, etc., out of the campaign sooner than later. Otherwise one should just agree to make their PC invulnerable and call it good. Sounds boring to me, but that's my opinion.
I had second thoughts about making my encounter easier but my solution is to reuse the vampire sundown countdown later on once we all know how to run combat as a team
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
Its not cheating maybe read the rules where it says sometime a DM needs to.....so if the rules say you might need to some times = not cheating.
From the DM guild:
Whether or not you choose to fudge roles as a DM is 100% your choice per the rules, and is not cheating.
Now for my personal my opinion: In lower level game you almost have to, nobody wants the character they spent hours working on and getting ready for, maybe even buying and painting a mini for, killed in the first combat of the first game session because a giant sewer rat Crited three times in a row. Fudging should only be used in the players favor and only when absolutely necessary, but if you refuse to do it at all ever regardless of what it says in the rules you are probably a bad DM. In my experiences the DMs who say to never do it and that it is cheating are the same DMs who think they are playing against the players and are always trying to beat the players.
I sometimes reroll. If I realize that maybe 50d12 was a bit much for a goblin dagger attack (exaggerated). 😁 Sometimes I just take away an equal number of lows and highs or something. Sometimes I adjust modifiers on the fly, if players don't know them yet. That is more subtle imo.
But yeah, I do sometimes fudge. Never really to protect the players, but to fix my own mess ups.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
In my book, GM's are allowed to fudge responsible. The aim of the game is to have fun, and the GM's primary responsibility is to ensure fun is had. So, if certain rolls would ruin the fun, it's allowable to change them.
Players, on the other hand, do not have that responsibility, and only really fudge to make their character do better. This is not allowed.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.