The casters exact words if someone attempts to Stealth /sneak atk against them dimension door teleports them away .
The spell says it triggers when conditions are met Well bad guy is attempting this so conditions are met but bad guy rolled higher on stealth . Im airing on dimension door triggering i'm planning on letting mynplayer teleport since the bad guy rolled stelth for sneak atk ?
Reason I ask is I had two other dms tell me that it doesn't matter if the attacker is stealthed the spell will not trigger but that doesn't make sense to me because the spell specifically states it triggers first time conditions are met .
It says nothing about having to see anything happen .
The relevant text from ready is: "decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction" - "When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger"
There are also pre-set reactions from abilities or spells which might have a specific wording that states they "interrupt" their trigger or otherwise occur before the trigger finishes, such as an Opportunity Attack: "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach."
But unfortunately, as you see, Readied Actions do not have this interruption ability. They occur "right after the trigger finishes" so if you're attempting to use a non-reaction spell like "Dimension Door" as a reaction, it will always occur right AFTER the perceivable event.
The note that the trigger must be perceivable is somewhat redundant since even if a stealth attack isn't noticed until it's occurring, its perceivable the moment it occurs (If a stealth fired arrow completely misses a generous DM might rule it isn't noticed, depending on circumstances). But I still note it so you're aware that even with interrupting triggers there needs to be something the character can "perceive" in order to react to it.
Reading the spell, it would depend on how the caster stipulates the trigger. The example in the spell description is being engulfed in water which is environmental. So if the caster says a stealth attack then the first time that criteria is met the spell would trigger. As the spell has to trigger when the criteria is met they can’t specify which stealth attack, so a canny DM might decide to have multiple attackers.
where the other DMs may be in disagreement is when a stealth attack is an actual trigger.
- when you roll stealth
- when you declare the attack
- when you roll the attack
based on this, rolling stealth is just hiding to get the sneak attack. So wouldn’t necessarily trigger the criteria. The follow up of attacking from stealth would meet the criteria
the grey area for me would be “attempt “ which is arguably different to “declare “ so is an attempt made when the dice are rolled? If so would the spell trigger before or after the “attempt “ . Clearly the player intends the spell to trigger before the attack is made but arguably the attempt is actually made when you roll, as you could fail to hit and therefore fail the sneak attack. If this is the case then the character would be hit, the spell would trigger, but since they were hit they would take the damage.
The contingency spell is silent on how detectable the condition must be, but is irrelevant to this case because dimension door cannot target the caster (it targets a point in space) and thus cannot be used with contingency. If you used a spell that was legal in this situation, such as blink, it would work but would occur immediately after you took damage.
Honestly I always picture the spell as a tiny box with a spell inside that opens and releases that spell when conditions were met . I assumed magic its self was carrying out the instructions and the casters job was done after cast the spell and specified the conditions .Thank you though you been very helpful.
Honestly I always picture the spell as a tiny box with a spell inside that opens and releases that spell when conditions were met . I assumed magic its self was carrying out the instructions and the casters job was done after cast the spell and specified the conditions .Thank you though you been very helpful.
Its worth remembering that as a DM, this is YOUR world and if you decide that magic in your world allows a spell to be easily woven as a readied action with conditions that disregard the caster's perception and conscious mind but are a part of the fabric of reality and trigger on the conditions, then thats how it is.
Normally a character with a readied action can CHOOSE to release a spell when the trigger occurs, so they can ignore certain triggers or choose a specific trigger. So you might have a good trade off by letting a player reaction take place regardless of a perceivable trigger while removing the player's ability to choose the trigger.
D&D rules are a base set and guideline for running your game but DM house rules take precedent. I'd only note that generally you should let players know any house rules you have or make before gameplay and in the event you introduce a new rule as an event occurs, you probably want to let it occur and THEN set the new rule against future events so the players aren't caught unawares.
Its worth remembering that as a DM, this is YOUR world and if you decide that magic in your world allows a spell to be easily woven as a readied action with conditions that disregard the caster's perception and conscious mind but are a part of the fabric of reality and trigger on the conditions, then thats how it is.
Pretty sure this is a question about contingency, not ready. Readied actions do require a perceivable trigger and thus cannot trigger off of an action you cannot perceive (but note that, stealth or not, you can perceive being stabbed, so teleporting after being hit is fine), but contingency does not say (nor do a number of other conditionally triggered spells, such as magic mouth and glyph of warding).
The contingency spell is silent on how detectable the condition must be, but is irrelevant to this case because dimension door cannot target the caster (it targets a point in space) and thus cannot be used with contingency. If you used a spell that was legal in this situation, such as blink, it would work but would occur immediately after you took damage.
I think this would be a DM call in terms of what the target of Dimension Door is considered to be.
Contingency requires a target that "can target you". Since "you" and possibly another creature and/or objects are being teleported, to a specified location, then "you" could be considered the target of the spell.
Why would one say this? Dimension Door can be used to teleport to:
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45- degree angle, 300 feet." "
You don't need to see the destination, it can be any place you can visualize even through solid rock. This means that there is NO line of effect between the caster and the destination point. Since there is no line of effect because the destination is behind total cover, it would seem reasonable that the "target" of the spell is the spell caster (and possibly a passenger) who are then transported to a specified destination within 500'.
Thus the spell would have a range of 500' and the spell caster would be its target. Misty Step is similar except it specifies a casting range of Self. However, Misty Step doesn't allow the caster to bring along other creatures so using a "Self" casting range for Dimension Door might also be incorrect.
In comparison, the Teleport spell which allows a much longer range of transport has a range of 10' specified. "This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice that you can see within range" ... In this case, the "targets" of the spell are the creatures to be transported and not the destination where the spell transports them to (at least in my opinion).
Finally, the general rules on targeting state:
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below)."
Dimension Door is not an Area of Effect - leaving the available targets to be creatures or objects. In the case of Dimension Door, since the caster is being transported, they ARE the target of the spell and thus the spell is eligible for use with contingency.
In terms of destination, the caster just needs to specify a safe spot within 500' of where they are when contingency is triggered. If the location specified when Dimension Door was cast isn't within range when triggered, the spell just wouldn't work.
Finally, to the OP, the caster does not need to be aware of the attack or attacker. The magic of the spell detects the condition and triggers the stored spell.
"Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells"
The Ready action specifically requires a trigger condition that must be perceivable. Contingency does not. However, the general rules on triggers indicate that the trigger completes and then the reaction happens.
As a result, although I think this approach works, I do think that the attack will happen and be resolved before the Dimension Door is triggered UNLESS the DM decides that the spell can determine the moment when a creature is or attacked (which would be noticeable) but before damage is applied. Magic could notice and react to things that a creatures reaction time would be too slow to note. So, it would be a DM call in terms of the allowed magical trigger and whether it could be triggered after an attack is made but before damage is allocated.
The Ready action specifically requires a trigger condition that must be perceivable. Contingency does not. However, the general rules on triggers indicate that the trigger completes and then the reaction happens.
In this case that makes the perception part mostly irrelevant, since being stabbed is always going to be perceivable.
I think the most rules-consistent way of handling spells that can detect things is to treat them as magical traps, which means the DC to evade them is the caster's spell save DC.
Its worth remembering that as a DM, this is YOUR world and if you decide that magic in your world allows a spell to be easily woven as a readied action with conditions that disregard the caster's perception and conscious mind but are a part of the fabric of reality and trigger on the conditions, then thats how it is.
Pretty sure this is a question about contingency, not ready. Readied actions do require a perceivable trigger and thus cannot trigger off of an action you cannot perceive (but note that, stealth or not, you can perceive being stabbed, so teleporting after being hit is fine), but contingency does not say (nor do a number of other conditionally triggered spells, such as magic mouth and glyph of warding).
You are correct. I read the post body without reading the title.
There doesn't seem to be a serious definition to limit the spell's ability to perceive and react to triggers. Arguably you could cast contingency with a prestidigitation set to colour the back of your hand blue when a bad guy you've only heard of, learns your rough location.
Then again, we're talking a 6th level spell with a 1,500gp material component you must keep on your self and the spell can only be in effect once as it awaits a trigger. When you can cast Scrying at 5th level to find out much more about a target I don't think it's that out of whack to leave the circumstances as unlimited in their perception.
The only possible exploit is if the players are trying to exploit it to discover information that is already in existence. So, cast it again and again, setting circumstances to something that is already the case, like "trigger this spell if the enemy I seek is my own patron". This could spoil good story investigation setup BUT you the spell should trigger after circumstances are met. If the circumstances are already in effect I would argue they cannot "trigger" unless the circumstances cease to be and then come into play again. So with the example of a bad guy learning your rough location, if the bad guy ALREADY knows your rough location then the spell would not trigger. But if the players move to another place and the bad guy learns of their new location, then it would trigger.
Honestly at this point I'm going to let the wizard teleport away unharmed I see no legitimate reason not to if other dms want to handle it differently that's their choice.
If we had a official ruling it be different.
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The casters exact words if someone attempts to Stealth /sneak atk against them dimension door teleports them away .
The spell says it triggers when conditions are met Well bad guy is attempting this so conditions are met but bad guy rolled higher on stealth . Im airing on dimension door triggering i'm planning on letting mynplayer teleport since the bad guy rolled stelth for sneak atk ?
Reason I ask is I had two other dms tell me that it doesn't matter if the attacker is stealthed the spell will not trigger but that doesn't make sense to me because the spell specifically states it triggers first time conditions are met .
It says nothing about having to see anything happen .
Anyway can anyone help me ?
The relevant text from ready is: "decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction" - "When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger"
There are also pre-set reactions from abilities or spells which might have a specific wording that states they "interrupt" their trigger or otherwise occur before the trigger finishes, such as an Opportunity Attack: "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach."
But unfortunately, as you see, Readied Actions do not have this interruption ability. They occur "right after the trigger finishes" so if you're attempting to use a non-reaction spell like "Dimension Door" as a reaction, it will always occur right AFTER the perceivable event.
The note that the trigger must be perceivable is somewhat redundant since even if a stealth attack isn't noticed until it's occurring, its perceivable the moment it occurs (If a stealth fired arrow completely misses a generous DM might rule it isn't noticed, depending on circumstances). But I still note it so you're aware that even with interrupting triggers there needs to be something the character can "perceive" in order to react to it.
Reading the spell, it would depend on how the caster stipulates the trigger. The example in the spell description is being engulfed in water which is environmental. So if the caster says a stealth attack then the first time that criteria is met the spell would trigger. As the spell has to trigger when the criteria is met they can’t specify which stealth attack, so a canny DM might decide to have multiple attackers.
where the other DMs may be in disagreement is when a stealth attack is an actual trigger.
- when you roll stealth
- when you declare the attack
- when you roll the attack
based on this, rolling stealth is just hiding to get the sneak attack. So wouldn’t necessarily trigger the criteria. The follow up of attacking from stealth would meet the criteria
the grey area for me would be “attempt “ which is arguably different to “declare “ so is an attempt made when the dice are rolled? If so would the spell trigger before or after the “attempt “ . Clearly the player intends the spell to trigger before the attack is made but arguably the attempt is actually made when you roll, as you could fail to hit and therefore fail the sneak attack. If this is the case then the character would be hit, the spell would trigger, but since they were hit they would take the damage.
The contingency spell is silent on how detectable the condition must be, but is irrelevant to this case because dimension door cannot target the caster (it targets a point in space) and thus cannot be used with contingency. If you used a spell that was legal in this situation, such as blink, it would work but would occur immediately after you took damage.
Honestly I always picture the spell as a tiny box with a spell inside that opens and releases that spell when conditions were met . I assumed magic its self was carrying out the instructions and the casters job was done after cast the spell and specified the conditions .Thank you though you been very helpful.
Honestly I always picture the spell as a tiny box with a spell inside that opens and releases that spell when conditions were met . I assumed magic its self was carrying out the instructions and the casters job was done after cast the spell and specified the conditions .Thank you though you been very helpful.
Its worth remembering that as a DM, this is YOUR world and if you decide that magic in your world allows a spell to be easily woven as a readied action with conditions that disregard the caster's perception and conscious mind but are a part of the fabric of reality and trigger on the conditions, then thats how it is.
Normally a character with a readied action can CHOOSE to release a spell when the trigger occurs, so they can ignore certain triggers or choose a specific trigger. So you might have a good trade off by letting a player reaction take place regardless of a perceivable trigger while removing the player's ability to choose the trigger.
D&D rules are a base set and guideline for running your game but DM house rules take precedent. I'd only note that generally you should let players know any house rules you have or make before gameplay and in the event you introduce a new rule as an event occurs, you probably want to let it occur and THEN set the new rule against future events so the players aren't caught unawares.
Pretty sure this is a question about contingency, not ready. Readied actions do require a perceivable trigger and thus cannot trigger off of an action you cannot perceive (but note that, stealth or not, you can perceive being stabbed, so teleporting after being hit is fine), but contingency does not say (nor do a number of other conditionally triggered spells, such as magic mouth and glyph of warding).
I think this would be a DM call in terms of what the target of Dimension Door is considered to be.
Contingency requires a target that "can target you". Since "you" and possibly another creature and/or objects are being teleported, to a specified location, then "you" could be considered the target of the spell.
Why would one say this? Dimension Door can be used to teleport to:
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45- degree angle, 300 feet." "
You don't need to see the destination, it can be any place you can visualize even through solid rock. This means that there is NO line of effect between the caster and the destination point. Since there is no line of effect because the destination is behind total cover, it would seem reasonable that the "target" of the spell is the spell caster (and possibly a passenger) who are then transported to a specified destination within 500'.
Thus the spell would have a range of 500' and the spell caster would be its target. Misty Step is similar except it specifies a casting range of Self. However, Misty Step doesn't allow the caster to bring along other creatures so using a "Self" casting range for Dimension Door might also be incorrect.
In comparison, the Teleport spell which allows a much longer range of transport has a range of 10' specified. "This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice that you can see within range" ... In this case, the "targets" of the spell are the creatures to be transported and not the destination where the spell transports them to (at least in my opinion).
Finally, the general rules on targeting state:
"A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below)."
Dimension Door is not an Area of Effect - leaving the available targets to be creatures or objects. In the case of Dimension Door, since the caster is being transported, they ARE the target of the spell and thus the spell is eligible for use with contingency.
In terms of destination, the caster just needs to specify a safe spot within 500' of where they are when contingency is triggered. If the location specified when Dimension Door was cast isn't within range when triggered, the spell just wouldn't work.
Finally, to the OP, the caster does not need to be aware of the attack or attacker. The magic of the spell detects the condition and triggers the stored spell.
"Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells"
The Ready action specifically requires a trigger condition that must be perceivable. Contingency does not. However, the general rules on triggers indicate that the trigger completes and then the reaction happens.
As a result, although I think this approach works, I do think that the attack will happen and be resolved before the Dimension Door is triggered UNLESS the DM decides that the spell can determine the moment when a creature is or attacked (which would be noticeable) but before damage is applied. Magic could notice and react to things that a creatures reaction time would be too slow to note. So, it would be a DM call in terms of the allowed magical trigger and whether it could be triggered after an attack is made but before damage is allocated.
In this case that makes the perception part mostly irrelevant, since being stabbed is always going to be perceivable.
I think the most rules-consistent way of handling spells that can detect things is to treat them as magical traps, which means the DC to evade them is the caster's spell save DC.
You are correct. I read the post body without reading the title.
There doesn't seem to be a serious definition to limit the spell's ability to perceive and react to triggers. Arguably you could cast contingency with a prestidigitation set to colour the back of your hand blue when a bad guy you've only heard of, learns your rough location.
Then again, we're talking a 6th level spell with a 1,500gp material component you must keep on your self and the spell can only be in effect once as it awaits a trigger. When you can cast Scrying at 5th level to find out much more about a target I don't think it's that out of whack to leave the circumstances as unlimited in their perception.
The only possible exploit is if the players are trying to exploit it to discover information that is already in existence. So, cast it again and again, setting circumstances to something that is already the case, like "trigger this spell if the enemy I seek is my own patron". This could spoil good story investigation setup BUT you the spell should trigger after circumstances are met. If the circumstances are already in effect I would argue they cannot "trigger" unless the circumstances cease to be and then come into play again. So with the example of a bad guy learning your rough location, if the bad guy ALREADY knows your rough location then the spell would not trigger. But if the players move to another place and the bad guy learns of their new location, then it would trigger.
Honestly at this point I'm going to let the wizard teleport away unharmed I see no legitimate reason not to if other dms want to handle it differently that's their choice.
If we had a official ruling it be different.