Let me start by giving some background info. I'm a first-time Dungeon Master for four players (all my age). We were all in a campaign together last year as players, and once it ended (albeit abruptly), I said "Hey, come play in my campaign so we can still hang out." So they gave me the character backstories, and I wove them into the framework of my campaign idea. I had planned to make essentially a chapter for each of them, tackling their backstories one by one and potentially making some friends along the way. Unfortunately, I didn't do a good job of spacing the different arcs out, and it's just kinda gotten to a rough patch. A PC's pet died in a mini boss battle (I had no control over that, the player rolled a nat 1 on its second death save), a PC got possessed (Yeah, that was my fault, but it was planned, I couldn't just not), and one of the PC's died, and they didn't have access to any revivify or resurrection kind of spells. The characters were super close in the beginning. Now they are either bickering, or awkwardly trying to mend the broken friendship they have with one another. And it's not really the player's fault, they are just trying to be in character. Im planning on asking them what they think the characters can do to fix this and come out of this rut, but other than that I think I'm screwed. Am I?
SOS :')
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"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
Sounds like you need a chapter entitled "The Healing of Harms." Have you read The Lord of the Rings yet? It's source material for the game so it's well worth your time. One thing Tolkien does right is in the spacing of danger and aid. Every time something horrible happens, something good happens to counterbalance the tension, anger, and despair. Mounted murders chased you into a forest of evil trees? Good thing Tom Bombadil likes to be kind to strangers. Evil birds, weather, wolves, and tentacles chased you into Moria? Good thing no one was guarding the gate just then and you have time to recollect your courage. Gandalf died? Good thing Lorien is nearby. I'm reducing the significance by explaining it in such direct terms, but as storyteller, you're not just creating the challenges... You're also creating the friends and allies who make the world worth saving in the first place.
You are definitely not screwed. I was part of a campaign where the party frequently bickered and even at one point was nearly fighting each other. eapiv has one suggestion to just give them a break and an RP-centric low-stakes story arc where they can mend their relationships. Another option is to have something bad happen to all of them that is independent of their characters so that they have to work together because they are all in the same boat.
I have read lord of the rings, all of it. But I don't remember all of it loll. Wish Tom Bombadil was in the movie tbh
anyways, i don't want to make anything else bad happen to them, and they all have conflicting interests, so I can't exactly get them to want to be with one another. Every time they have down time or a chance to talk with one another they fight. And it's not even the players fault. They recently encountered an NPC that they all had ties to, and this was supposed to be an opportunity to reconnect and be reminded that they all have something in common. They aren't just random strangers- mostly.
Should I make a teamwork based puzzle or something? I'm no wordsmith, but the aforementioned NPC could say something to them...?
It sounds like you need to give them a common goal. Rather than have the plot revolve around the backstory of each character - which naturally means different characters have different perspectives on it - could you introduce a separate villain who threatens all of the party equally? Thus they all have incentive to defeat them?
That is what I meant by "something bad" happen to all of them - e.g. you could have the city they use as their home base get conquored by a dragon or a necromancer or some other big bad that is way out of their league at the moment, or you could have them get captured by mindflayers or drow or duergar and taken to the underdark where they need to find a way to escape and need to rely on each other to survive to return to the surface or have a curse descend on the land that blots out the sun that they need to figure out where it came from and undo it.
If the party have fundamentally different ideologies you won't be able to 'fix it' just by telling them to get along, you need to give them a reason to do so - i.e. a threat or villain so powerful their only hope is if all of them come together.
Dude you read my brain. They are all currently trying to uproot this cult, and they haven't figured out who the big bad is yet. She's the leader of the cult, and also another NPC they've met. This might be a good time to start dropping hints... Because they need to get their priorities straight if they're to beat her.
Thank you for the ideas and the advice btw :))
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"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
anyways, i don't want to make anything else bad happen to them, and they all have conflicting interests, so I can't exactly get them to want to be with one another. Every time they have down time or a chance to talk with one another they fight. And it's not even the players fault.
I just need to push back on this. It is the player’s fault. The players are the ones controlling the characters, they are not passive observers. The players can choose to let it go. The players can choose to find some reason for their characters to work together.
I get people want to stay in character, but that isn’t always good. If you have a rogue stealing from the party because “that’s what my character would do” the problem is with the player making the character behave like that, not with the character. Seems like you have a party full of “that’s what my character would do” people.
I’d say have an out of character talk with the table. Theres a point where it’s up to the player to find a reason for their character to invest in the story and work with the party. Role play is great and should be encouraged, but in the end this is just a game, and to function properly, a player may need to give a bit here and there on the idea of how their character acts for the sake of the whole group. Otherwise, you could end up needing to keep putting out this same fire.
anyways, i don't want to make anything else bad happen to them, and they all have conflicting interests, so I can't exactly get them to want to be with one another. Every time they have down time or a chance to talk with one another they fight. And it's not even the players fault.
I just need to push back on this. It is the player’s fault. The players are the ones controlling the characters, they are not passive observers. The players can choose to let it go. The players can choose to find some reason for their characters to work together.
I get people want to stay in character, but that isn’t always good. If you have a rogue stealing from the party because “that’s what my character would do” the problem is with the player making the character behave like that, not with the character. Seems like you have a party full of “that’s what my character would do” people.
I’d say have an out of character talk with the table. Theres a point where it’s up to the player to find a reason for their character to invest in the story and work with the party. Role play is great and should be encouraged, but in the end this is just a game, and to function properly, a player may need to give a bit here and there on the idea of how their character acts for the sake of the whole group. Otherwise, you could end up needing to keep putting out this same fire.
Totally agree, it's not the DM's job to find a reason for the player characters to be there, it's the player's job during character creation to come up with reasons why their character is on the adventure working with the other characters. Conflict is fine (in one game I'm playing in my character and another loath each other) but they still need to figure out why they're working together or they need to come up with new characters who do want to be there
anyways, i don't want to make anything else bad happen to them, and they all have conflicting interests, so I can't exactly get them to want to be with one another. Every time they have down time or a chance to talk with one another they fight. And it's not even the players fault.
I just need to push back on this. It is the player’s fault. The players are the ones controlling the characters, they are not passive observers. The players can choose to let it go. The players can choose to find some reason for their characters to work together.
I get people want to stay in character, but that isn’t always good. If you have a rogue stealing from the party because “that’s what my character would do” the problem is with the player making the character behave like that, not with the character. Seems like you have a party full of “that’s what my character would do” people.
I’d say have an out of character talk with the table. Theres a point where it’s up to the player to find a reason for their character to invest in the story and work with the party. Role play is great and should be encouraged, but in the end this is just a game, and to function properly, a player may need to give a bit here and there on the idea of how their character acts for the sake of the whole group. Otherwise, you could end up needing to keep putting out this same fire.
Totally agree, it's not the DM's job to find a reason for the player characters to be there, it's the player's job during character creation to come up with reasons why their character is on the adventure working with the other characters. Conflict is fine (in one game I'm playing in my character and another loath each other) but they still need to figure out why they're working together or they need to come up with new characters who do want to be there
We've been playing this for almost a year now, its a little late for them to figure out a reason to want to be here. Either that reason is gone or they were just along for the ride from the start, and "hey, 20 gold is 20 gold. I'll risk my life for it."
Last session, what was supposed to be a short, simple, new direction with the quest and maybe some downtime had some of them yelling at one another. They are very much "It's what my character would do" and they all love the drama. But this narrative has turned to shit (pardon my french) bc it's only drama. There needs to be some character growth with that, but all that is screwing with the development. Also, some of this is my fault bc I'm very new to this DMing thing, and still learning. I screwed up a couple times too, and the butterfly effect is having the players suffer for it. But I do agree with what you said. There's two sides to this platinum piece.
If I'm to have a conversation with the entire group, how do you think I should approach it? I've already talked to one of them breifly durring a non-dnd call (this is all happening over discord :'D) and he essentially said "yeah, none of us want to really be here anymore, but feel like we have to. Even your NPC didn't want to be here anymore" Which, that's totally my fault, i didn't know where I was going with that bit- but neverthless, I'd like some advice on how to approach them about it ig.
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"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
in some ways, it sounds like if they were truly role playing, the party would dissolve, so it’s this interesting mix where they’re trying to role play, but really they’re only together for metagame reasons.
But as to the conversation, There’s a couple ways to ho about it. Probably in person is best if that’s an option. Be frank. You know your group, so you know how diplomatic you need to be in phrasing, but it could be something like: Folks, things have gotten off the rails here. Part of that is my fault because I did x, y and z. But to me it also seems like you all, sometimes, take the role play part of the rpg a bit too far, at the expense of the game part. I love that you have developed your characters so strongly, but you need to find ways to let them give a bit so they can work together. And you need to find a reason for your character to be in this party.
Then work with them to hash things out.
It may be that one or more of them really can’t find a reason for their character to continue — they may need to make a new character if they can’t find a way to “play nicely.” I’d throw that out as an option. No judgment, just a choice they can make.
Another option, and this would be far from the first time this has happened (even with very experienced DMs) is to say this is just way too much, and you’re going to end the campaign and start a new one. Everyone makes new characters, and start at session 0 with how they all know each other and why they’re willing to work together. Build that into the structure from the beginning to try and head off the problem.
in some ways, it sounds like if they were truly role playing, the party would dissolve, so it’s this interesting mix where they’re trying to role play, but really they’re only together for metagame reasons.
But as to the conversation, There’s a couple ways to ho about it. Probably in person is best if that’s an option. Be frank. You know your group, so you know how diplomatic you need to be in phrasing, but it could be something like: Folks, things have gotten off the rails here. Part of that is my fault because I did x, y and z. But to me it also seems like you all, sometimes, take the role play part of the rpg a bit too far, at the expense of the game part. I love that you have developed your characters so strongly, but you need to find ways to let them give a bit so they can work together. And you need to find a reason for your character to be in this party.
Then work with them to hash things out.
It may be that one or more of them really can’t find a reason for their character to continue — they may need to make a new character if they can’t find a way to “play nicely.” I’d throw that out as an option. No judgment, just a choice they can make.
Another option, and this would be far from the first time this has happened (even with very experienced DMs) is to say this is just way too much, and you’re going to end the campaign and start a new one. Everyone makes new characters, and start at session 0 with how they all know each other and why they’re willing to work together. Build that into the structure from the beginning to try and head off the problem.
Thank you so much. Again, I'm no wordsmith so the help/prompt is much appreciated. :'D
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"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
Let me start by giving some background info. I'm a first-time Dungeon Master for four players (all my age). We were all in a campaign together last year as players, and once it ended (albeit abruptly), I said "Hey, come play in my campaign so we can still hang out." So they gave me the character backstories, and I wove them into the framework of my campaign idea. I had planned to make essentially a chapter for each of them, tackling their backstories one by one and potentially making some friends along the way. Unfortunately, I didn't do a good job of spacing the different arcs out, and it's just kinda gotten to a rough patch. A PC's pet died in a mini boss battle (I had no control over that, the player rolled a nat 1 on its second death save), a PC got possessed (Yeah, that was my fault, but it was planned, I couldn't just not), and one of the PC's died, and they didn't have access to any revivify or resurrection kind of spells. The characters were super close in the beginning. Now they are either bickering, or awkwardly trying to mend the broken friendship they have with one another. And it's not really the player's fault, they are just trying to be in character. Im planning on asking them what they think the characters can do to fix this and come out of this rut, but other than that I think I'm screwed. Am I?
SOS :')
"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
Sounds like you need a chapter entitled "The Healing of Harms." Have you read The Lord of the Rings yet? It's source material for the game so it's well worth your time. One thing Tolkien does right is in the spacing of danger and aid. Every time something horrible happens, something good happens to counterbalance the tension, anger, and despair. Mounted murders chased you into a forest of evil trees? Good thing Tom Bombadil likes to be kind to strangers. Evil birds, weather, wolves, and tentacles chased you into Moria? Good thing no one was guarding the gate just then and you have time to recollect your courage. Gandalf died? Good thing Lorien is nearby. I'm reducing the significance by explaining it in such direct terms, but as storyteller, you're not just creating the challenges... You're also creating the friends and allies who make the world worth saving in the first place.
You are definitely not screwed. I was part of a campaign where the party frequently bickered and even at one point was nearly fighting each other. eapiv has one suggestion to just give them a break and an RP-centric low-stakes story arc where they can mend their relationships. Another option is to have something bad happen to all of them that is independent of their characters so that they have to work together because they are all in the same boat.
I have read lord of the rings, all of it. But I don't remember all of it loll. Wish Tom Bombadil was in the movie tbh
anyways, i don't want to make anything else bad happen to them, and they all have conflicting interests, so I can't exactly get them to want to be with one another. Every time they have down time or a chance to talk with one another they fight. And it's not even the players fault. They recently encountered an NPC that they all had ties to, and this was supposed to be an opportunity to reconnect and be reminded that they all have something in common. They aren't just random strangers- mostly.
Should I make a teamwork based puzzle or something? I'm no wordsmith, but the aforementioned NPC could say something to them...?
"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
It sounds like you need to give them a common goal. Rather than have the plot revolve around the backstory of each character - which naturally means different characters have different perspectives on it - could you introduce a separate villain who threatens all of the party equally? Thus they all have incentive to defeat them?
That is what I meant by "something bad" happen to all of them - e.g. you could have the city they use as their home base get conquored by a dragon or a necromancer or some other big bad that is way out of their league at the moment, or you could have them get captured by mindflayers or drow or duergar and taken to the underdark where they need to find a way to escape and need to rely on each other to survive to return to the surface or have a curse descend on the land that blots out the sun that they need to figure out where it came from and undo it.
If the party have fundamentally different ideologies you won't be able to 'fix it' just by telling them to get along, you need to give them a reason to do so - i.e. a threat or villain so powerful their only hope is if all of them come together.
Dude you read my brain. They are all currently trying to uproot this cult, and they haven't figured out who the big bad is yet. She's the leader of the cult, and also another NPC they've met. This might be a good time to start dropping hints... Because they need to get their priorities straight if they're to beat her.
Thank you for the ideas and the advice btw :))
"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
I just need to push back on this. It is the player’s fault. The players are the ones controlling the characters, they are not passive observers. The players can choose to let it go. The players can choose to find some reason for their characters to work together.
I get people want to stay in character, but that isn’t always good. If you have a rogue stealing from the party because “that’s what my character would do” the problem is with the player making the character behave like that, not with the character. Seems like you have a party full of “that’s what my character would do” people.
I’d say have an out of character talk with the table. Theres a point where it’s up to the player to find a reason for their character to invest in the story and work with the party. Role play is great and should be encouraged, but in the end this is just a game, and to function properly, a player may need to give a bit here and there on the idea of how their character acts for the sake of the whole group. Otherwise, you could end up needing to keep putting out this same fire.
Totally agree, it's not the DM's job to find a reason for the player characters to be there, it's the player's job during character creation to come up with reasons why their character is on the adventure working with the other characters. Conflict is fine (in one game I'm playing in my character and another loath each other) but they still need to figure out why they're working together or they need to come up with new characters who do want to be there
We've been playing this for almost a year now, its a little late for them to figure out a reason to want to be here. Either that reason is gone or they were just along for the ride from the start, and "hey, 20 gold is 20 gold. I'll risk my life for it."
Last session, what was supposed to be a short, simple, new direction with the quest and maybe some downtime had some of them yelling at one another. They are very much "It's what my character would do" and they all love the drama. But this narrative has turned to shit (pardon my french) bc it's only drama. There needs to be some character growth with that, but all that is screwing with the development. Also, some of this is my fault bc I'm very new to this DMing thing, and still learning. I screwed up a couple times too, and the butterfly effect is having the players suffer for it. But I do agree with what you said. There's two sides to this platinum piece.
If I'm to have a conversation with the entire group, how do you think I should approach it? I've already talked to one of them breifly durring a non-dnd call (this is all happening over discord :'D) and he essentially said "yeah, none of us want to really be here anymore, but feel like we have to. Even your NPC didn't want to be here anymore" Which, that's totally my fault, i didn't know where I was going with that bit- but neverthless, I'd like some advice on how to approach them about it ig.
"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
in some ways, it sounds like if they were truly role playing, the party would dissolve, so it’s this interesting mix where they’re trying to role play, but really they’re only together for metagame reasons.
But as to the conversation, There’s a couple ways to ho about it. Probably in person is best if that’s an option. Be frank. You know your group, so you know how diplomatic you need to be in phrasing, but it could be something like: Folks, things have gotten off the rails here. Part of that is my fault because I did x, y and z. But to me it also seems like you all, sometimes, take the role play part of the rpg a bit too far, at the expense of the game part. I love that you have developed your characters so strongly, but you need to find ways to let them give a bit so they can work together. And you need to find a reason for your character to be in this party.
Then work with them to hash things out.
It may be that one or more of them really can’t find a reason for their character to continue — they may need to make a new character if they can’t find a way to “play nicely.” I’d throw that out as an option. No judgment, just a choice they can make.
Another option, and this would be far from the first time this has happened (even with very experienced DMs) is to say this is just way too much, and you’re going to end the campaign and start a new one. Everyone makes new characters, and start at session 0 with how they all know each other and why they’re willing to work together. Build that into the structure from the beginning to try and head off the problem.
Thank you so much. Again, I'm no wordsmith so the help/prompt is much appreciated. :'D
"Speaking of setting this forest on fire, it's your turn" - My favorite DM
Need an r&r session or tpk the whole group and start new characters