Hey, I'm running the Lost Mine of Phandelver, and as anyone who saw my previous thread knows, both me and my players are essentially brand new to DND. One of my players is playing a 35 year old Half Elf Rogue with the Criminal background who grew up as an assassin in Neverwinter, but fled to Phandalin to lay low after the authorities caught on. She claims that her character is a good person, but also states that she kills for money, preferring morally corrupt targets but not minding if the target is innocent. I think that her PC should be Chaotic Neutral at least, maybe even Chaotic Evil; what do y'all think? And what should I do about it? I don't really want an unrepentant murderer for a PC, but I still want side quests tied to the character's backstories, and this could make some fun stories.
Does alignment actually matter to the campaign? Anyway, alignment isn't clearly defined so as a DM you can just rule on what seems right to you; I would probably rule that the character is evil, and I'd encourage the player to rework their backstory (the basics can still work, just need to add angst).
You know what the best solution is? Leave alignment blank on the character sheet and let the player play their character as is. Then you as the DM determine what you feel their alignment would be. That eliminates all sorts of player agency and story issues. Alignment is ambiguous enough to not require the energy to work around.
isnt alignment deterimned by the player alone? with no DM intervention?
I think chaotic neutral, and like Pantagruel666 said, add angst.
but that's just my two copper
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Alignment: Lawful Evil
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Duly noted. I did want at least an estimate of alignment because I know certain spells, magic items, and planes of existence utilize the concept. I'll probably just ask the player to modify their backstory a bit.
Duly noted. I did want at least an estimate of alignment because I know certain spells, magic items, and planes of existence utilize the concept. I'll probably just ask the player to modify their backstory a bit.
Almost nothing in 5e cares about alignment. (Robe of the archmagi, maybe some artifacts.) I don't even know what the alignments of the PCs in my game are, assuming the players chose any.
If you want to set up side quests, base it on what the character does, and on their background. An ex-assasin on the run and trying to be a good guy (or not) is a fertile ground for plot hooks, and the character's alignment really doesn't matter.
Hey, I'm running the Lost Mine of Phandelver, and as anyone who saw my previous thread knows, both me and my players are essentially brand new to DND. One of my players is playing a 35 year old Half Elf Rogue with the Criminal background who grew up as an assassin in Neverwinter, but fled to Phandalin to lay low after the authorities caught on. She claims that her character is a good person, but also states that she kills for money, preferring morally corrupt targets but not minding if the target is innocent. I think that her PC should be Chaotic Neutral at least, maybe even Chaotic Evil; what do y'all think? And what should I do about it? I don't really want an unrepentant murderer for a PC, but I still want side quests tied to the character's backstories, and this could make some fun stories.
Killing for money and in general being an assassin pretty much makes her Evil. If you don't want an evil character, definitely don't make her chaotic neutral. As other people have said, if Alignment isn't going to factor into the campaign, don't worry about it what her alignment is.
1st, you really need to know how the other players feel. Any Good Character is going to immediate have an issue. It may be hard for the player to explain how their good character chooses to continue traveling with this evil person. It will likely cause an issue at some point. But also you have to figure out if you are going to be okay with it yourself. One of the major issues is going to be those sidequests. Neverwinter authorities want her for murder... the other Lawful good PC is probably going to side against her, and agree with the authorities. You really need everyone to be a shady character if you are going to allow her to be evil and just murder people.
So I would talk to everyone else at the table and then talk to her and mention that while it is okay that she did that in the past, there really needs to be some element of her being reformed at this point and no longer continuing it. Bonus points if someone was forcing her to do those things.
Hey, I'm running the Lost Mine of Phandelver, and as anyone who saw my previous thread knows, both me and my players are essentially brand new to DND. One of my players is playing a 35 year old Half Elf Rogue with the Criminal background who grew up as an assassin in Neverwinter, but fled to Phandalin to lay low after the authorities caught on. She claims that her character is a good person, but also states that she kills for money, preferring morally corrupt targets but not minding if the target is innocent. I think that her PC should be Chaotic Neutral at least, maybe even Chaotic Evil; what do y'all think? And what should I do about it? I don't really want an unrepentant murderer for a PC, but I still want side quests tied to the character's backstories, and this could make some fun stories.
The Criminal background doesn't have to be evil, even with the Hired Killer Specialty. It might not be best fit as good but in 5E alignment are more abstract concept and rarely play significant role. Regardless of alignment, there's room for the character to not be an unrepentant murderer and for you as DM to make side quests tied to his backstories. As DM i wouldn't ever force a player characters to be evil though, personally i'd work with them to either be good, neutral or neutral (good tendencies), something i use since AD&D 2nd edition.
5e by the RAW is basically alignment-less. Just ignore it, there's no mechanics in game that make it matter unless "good/evil" spells are being used and those are not the most common.
In the end most newer players are playing a video game POV, You know fallout 4 and Skyrim, the player can do literally anything and the entire world does not honestly react to it, by say not trusting you if you are obviously not to be trusted. You can be the head of all the orgs all at once in uber power trip fantasy land. Lots of players show up to TTRPGS with this POV of how to play them.
The tip off is, my PC has no limitations that will make them have to say no to gaining loot or xp from anything. That's the 100% completionist video game POV, not a real person with a real personality and moral imperatives or moral bankruptcy being committed to. But you know just from one encounter to the next, whatever maxes loot gains and freedom of choices. But without committing to being neutral evil that is that POV of, no holds bard gets me loot.
To play the other side of feedback, neutral evil with a slight leaning toward lawful evil.
Why?
"Not minding" killing people who aren't evil isn't good or even indifferent (neutral); it's just evil. So the Good - Neutral - Evil axis points to Evil.
Not being a raving killer who lusts for any blood but being willing to kill when society says it's evil points to Neutral on the Lawful - Neutral - Chaotic axis.
She's a killer. She only does it on a contract and prefers killing other bad people, but she's a killer. Outside the law. Outside morality.
Some inspiration from Dexter could be taken. It's a challenging plot to manage well over time.
Everybody seems to have forgotten that: A, a majority of fey/celestial creatures can detect alignment. & B, plot relevant magic items are often alignment dependent (admittedly, story magic items like this are often homebrewed.)
Aside from that rant, in my experience, having evil characters can be extremely detrimental to the group. I would clarify that this is specifically a good campaign, and ask them to adjust this character, but that might not work for you.
Everybody seems to have forgotten that: A, a majority of fey/celestial creatures can detect alignment. & B, plot relevant magic items are often alignment dependent (admittedly, story magic items like this are often homebrewed.)
Which creatures are you referring to? (detect evil and good does not detect alignment, despite the name)
Everybody seems to have forgotten that: A, a majority of fey/celestial creatures can detect alignment. & B, plot relevant magic items are often alignment dependent (admittedly, story magic items like this are often homebrewed.)
Which creatures are you referring to? (detect evil and good does not detect alignment, despite the name)
Everybody seems to have forgotten that: A, a majority of fey/celestial creatures can detect alignment. & B, plot relevant magic items are often alignment dependent (admittedly, story magic items like this are often homebrewed.)
Which creatures are you referring to? (detect evil and good does not detect alignment, despite the name)
I don't really want an unrepentant murderer for a PC, but I still want side quests tied to the character's backstories, and this could make some fun stories.
Then convince them not to be unrepentant. If you want side stories related to the character's backstories let them meet the children of one of their innocent victims, or have them be hunted down by the vengeful brother of one of their innocent victims, or have a doggedly determined but utterly lawful good detective follow them from the city they fled and keep searching for them in their current locale.
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Hey, I'm running the Lost Mine of Phandelver, and as anyone who saw my previous thread knows, both me and my players are essentially brand new to DND. One of my players is playing a 35 year old Half Elf Rogue with the Criminal background who grew up as an assassin in Neverwinter, but fled to Phandalin to lay low after the authorities caught on. She claims that her character is a good person, but also states that she kills for money, preferring morally corrupt targets but not minding if the target is innocent. I think that her PC should be Chaotic Neutral at least, maybe even Chaotic Evil; what do y'all think? And what should I do about it? I don't really want an unrepentant murderer for a PC, but I still want side quests tied to the character's backstories, and this could make some fun stories.
Does alignment actually matter to the campaign? Anyway, alignment isn't clearly defined so as a DM you can just rule on what seems right to you; I would probably rule that the character is evil, and I'd encourage the player to rework their backstory (the basics can still work, just need to add angst).
You know what the best solution is? Leave alignment blank on the character sheet and let the player play their character as is. Then you as the DM determine what you feel their alignment would be. That eliminates all sorts of player agency and story issues. Alignment is ambiguous enough to not require the energy to work around.
isnt alignment deterimned by the player alone? with no DM intervention?
I think chaotic neutral, and like Pantagruel666 said, add angst.
but that's just my two copper
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Duly noted. I did want at least an estimate of alignment because I know certain spells, magic items, and planes of existence utilize the concept. I'll probably just ask the player to modify their backstory a bit.
Almost nothing in 5e cares about alignment. (Robe of the archmagi, maybe some artifacts.) I don't even know what the alignments of the PCs in my game are, assuming the players chose any.
If you want to set up side quests, base it on what the character does, and on their background. An ex-assasin on the run and trying to be a good guy (or not) is a fertile ground for plot hooks, and the character's alignment really doesn't matter.
Killing for money and in general being an assassin pretty much makes her Evil. If you don't want an evil character, definitely don't make her chaotic neutral. As other people have said, if Alignment isn't going to factor into the campaign, don't worry about it what her alignment is.
1st, you really need to know how the other players feel. Any Good Character is going to immediate have an issue. It may be hard for the player to explain how their good character chooses to continue traveling with this evil person. It will likely cause an issue at some point. But also you have to figure out if you are going to be okay with it yourself. One of the major issues is going to be those sidequests. Neverwinter authorities want her for murder... the other Lawful good PC is probably going to side against her, and agree with the authorities. You really need everyone to be a shady character if you are going to allow her to be evil and just murder people.
So I would talk to everyone else at the table and then talk to her and mention that while it is okay that she did that in the past, there really needs to be some element of her being reformed at this point and no longer continuing it. Bonus points if someone was forcing her to do those things.
The Criminal background doesn't have to be evil, even with the Hired Killer Specialty. It might not be best fit as good but in 5E alignment are more abstract concept and rarely play significant role. Regardless of alignment, there's room for the character to not be an unrepentant murderer and for you as DM to make side quests tied to his backstories. As DM i wouldn't ever force a player characters to be evil though, personally i'd work with them to either be good, neutral or neutral (good tendencies), something i use since AD&D 2nd edition.
5e by the RAW is basically alignment-less. Just ignore it, there's no mechanics in game that make it matter unless "good/evil" spells are being used and those are not the most common.
In the end most newer players are playing a video game POV, You know fallout 4 and Skyrim, the player can do literally anything and the entire world does not honestly react to it, by say not trusting you if you are obviously not to be trusted. You can be the head of all the orgs all at once in uber power trip fantasy land.
Lots of players show up to TTRPGS with this POV of how to play them.
The tip off is, my PC has no limitations that will make them have to say no to gaining loot or xp from anything.
That's the 100% completionist video game POV, not a real person with a real personality and moral imperatives or moral bankruptcy being committed to. But you know just from one encounter to the next, whatever maxes loot gains and freedom of choices. But without committing to being neutral evil that is that POV of, no holds bard gets me loot.
To play the other side of feedback, neutral evil with a slight leaning toward lawful evil.
Why?
"Not minding" killing people who aren't evil isn't good or even indifferent (neutral); it's just evil. So the Good - Neutral - Evil axis points to Evil.
Not being a raving killer who lusts for any blood but being willing to kill when society says it's evil points to Neutral on the Lawful - Neutral - Chaotic axis.
She's a killer. She only does it on a contract and prefers killing other bad people, but she's a killer. Outside the law. Outside morality.
Some inspiration from Dexter could be taken. It's a challenging plot to manage well over time.
Everybody seems to have forgotten that: A, a majority of fey/celestial creatures can detect alignment. & B, plot relevant magic items are often alignment dependent (admittedly, story magic items like this are often homebrewed.)
Aside from that rant, in my experience, having evil characters can be extremely detrimental to the group. I would clarify that this is specifically a good campaign, and ask them to adjust this character, but that might not work for you.
Which creatures are you referring to? (detect evil and good does not detect alignment, despite the name)
Sprites have the Heart Sight action.
That's hardly a majority.
I admit, it's one more than I was expecting.
Then convince them not to be unrepentant. If you want side stories related to the character's backstories let them meet the children of one of their innocent victims, or have them be hunted down by the vengeful brother of one of their innocent victims, or have a doggedly determined but utterly lawful good detective follow them from the city they fled and keep searching for them in their current locale.