I plan to have my adventurers steal an item from a Chromatic Dragon's Hoard. There will also be a Metallic Dragon's Lair in the region as well. I assume the Chromatic Dragon will be upset and want it back. Is there a way to "unlink" the item from the Chromatic Dragon magically or through some type of transfer of ownership of equal or greater power so as the Chromatic will back off? A spell, a ritual, etc.?
First off, be fully prepared for the players to say "oh heck no, we're not stealing from a dragon horde!", and then go through ideas until they decide to set a trap to kill the dragon.
Also be prepared for them to say "Oh heck yeah, we're stealing ALL of this here dragon horde!".
I believe that there may be some nondetection spells which could be put to creative use... Ah, yes. The spell is actually called Nondetection. Logically, as long as it's up, the dragon won't be able to detect the item. But when it drops...
How is it currently linked to the dragon? Beyond it being in their horde?
Thoruk has a good idea with nondetection. They might also try something like putting it in a Leomunds secret chest which will move it to the ethereal, or in a demiplane or something that can put it on another plane, which will make it harder to find. Or if you’re saying the dragon is attuned to it, someone else attuning to it will break the dragon’s attunement. But if the idea of this link is yours, it’s a homebrew concept, and you can just make up whatever process you like to end the link.
One potentially interesting wrinkle is the idea from Fizban’s of a dragon’s power (age) being tied to the size of its horde. And if you remove enough expensive items from a horde, you might theoretically de-age the dragon, making it weaker. So depending on the items value, the dragon might be really motivated to get it back, or at least get something of equal value in its place.
My suggestion is if you want it to happen then be flexible and make it easy.
If players do something that seems like it would work like casting nondetection or remove curse then let them do it but remember you are always in charge of how well it works, maybe these are only temporary fixs. Also be prepared to make something up if they role a knowledge check the answer just needs to be intuitive for example:
The dragon claims dominion over it's property but much of a chromatic dragons hoard is stolen. The claim of the original owner still holds precedence and their blessing will break the dragons connection.
All metals belong to the earth and to the earth they will return. A druid of priest of a god of nature can perform a ritual on metals to return it to the earth and erase the dragons claim.
Not even dragons dare meddle with offerings to gods. By pledging the item to a powerful god at a temple the dragons magic is repelled.
A great wizard once hid a legendary sword from the dragon who made it. Maybe the local mage or witch knows of this spell.
Magic items can have memory but powerful enough magic may be able to alter it.
leaving an object of equal value or defeating them in a challenge makes it a trade/prize and breaks the dragons magical claim.
Any of those gives ideas for the players to come up with alternative solutions then just be flexible. If they want to cast speak with dead or dream to try to contact the owner to gain their blessing then let them even though the spell may not strictly speaking work that way. You can use it to guide them where you want them to go. For example maybe the item is enough to conjure the spirit to ask them and the spirit asks something of them in return or the spell guides them to a grave to perform the seance. The dream spell could reveal the target is dead or alert them to something else.
Basically rule of cool, try to yes and, and if you need hints you don't need a specific solution in mind just say stuff that sounds cool and let the players fill in the rest.
I intend for them to be much inclined to want this item, but likely not ballsy enough to push their luck. Thanks for the heads up on the Nondetection spell. This is my first time as GM and I'm low level in my only other DnD campaign so I'm still figuring out a lot.
It is mainly just a part of their horde. Nothing specific so far as I have deemed. I didn't at all think of transdimensional storage, like I mentioned to Thoruk, I'm fairly new to DnD. About 6 months in really. I wouldn't think it as an attunement per se. Speaking of Fizban's, I feel like somewhere I had read about dragon's blood or offering the item to another dragon to change ownership but I can't recall where I read that. I don't remember that about age linked to horde size, but that's interesting and I'm gonna check that out.
I haven't heard of Modify Memory but I'm still learning about the spells. Would be interesting to use on something to that size and I wonder if it would even be possible against a dragon.
Well, if it’s just some random item, there’s not really much need to do anything. The PCs take it and leave, and then it’s not the dragon’s stuff anymore. It can just be that simple. If it’s really important to the dragon, it might try something like casting Locate Object, but that’s only got a range of 1,000 feet. Though flying around, a dragon could cover a pretty big area pretty quickly; and terrify the countryside in the process. Another option could be deciding the PCs are beneath it, and hiring a group of detectives/mercenaries to retrieve it.
I guess the real question is, why do you want the item “unlinked?” Maybe people can give better strategies if they understand the reasoning.
Basically, I want this Young Red Dragon to have somehow acquired this rare-very rare magical item and added it to its horde. The adventurers will be trying to get this item from the dragon. Based on the players, I assume they will try to steal the item as the dragon is not the main objective here but just a large obstacle. From what my understanding was, the dragon would be very vengeful about losing an item from his horde and hunt them down. I also assumed that dragons were linked somehow to their horde and were like this about all of their items and it was seen as weak of them to allow someone to just walk off with their items. I was trying to make this campaign as lore accurate as possible, but, since I am fairly new to DnD, I am still learning the difference between Hollywood dragons and DnD dragons.
The big thing to remember is, there is no one truly correct way to run it. There are things written in books that describe how a dragon might behave. But DM's are free, and encouraged, to change those things as they see fit. So, in your world, if you want dragons to have some kind of magical link to their treasure, then they do. Or if you want just this one single dragon to have such a link, and none of the others do, then that's what happens. The books say that dragons guard their treasure jealously, but exactly how tightly they keep an inventory is also up to you. If there's a link, you have a built-in reason the dragon will notice something missing. If no link, you can decide if, and when it notices. You might let the PCs get away with it until they are an appropriate level to fight the thing, at which point it shows up wanting its stuff back.
If you want to homebrew in a link, then you can also just homebrew a way to break the link, and what that will be is entirely up to how difficult you want to make it on the characters. If you just want to get on with it, you can say, once they carry it out of the lair, it's not the dragon's anymore, link broken. Or you could say they need to cast a spell, like maybe a remove curse or something. That gives the PCs a little speed bump to get past, where the real trick will be figuring out that's an option. Seems like you've got another dragon in the mix, so maybe they can do it (usually for a price). Or maybe they need to perform the dragon de-linking ritual which you invent. So, its sort of, do you want the challenge to be getting the item, and then just move on with the story, or do you want them breaking the link to become a side quest?
The retrieval of the item is part of the main quest. Since there doesn't seem to be any set in stone rule about a dragon's treasure then I suppose I can determine that when I get closer to that point. Like you said, it is up to my descretion as to how it can play out. The fun part for me is I am making this campaign and one of the players has been a DM for 20+ years, so I'm hoping he won't see every move a mile away.
The retrieval of the item is part of the main quest. Since there doesn't seem to be any set in stone rule about a dragon's treasure then I suppose I can determine that when I get closer to that point. Like you said, it is up to my descretion as to how it can play out. The fun part for me is I am making this campaign and one of the players has been a DM for 20+ years, so I'm hoping he won't see every move a mile away.
Who cares if he does? Just because you can predict the plot doesn't mean you don't enjoy it. A forever DM appreciates how hard it is to DM and any chance they get to not be the DM.
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I plan to have my adventurers steal an item from a Chromatic Dragon's Hoard. There will also be a Metallic Dragon's Lair in the region as well. I assume the Chromatic Dragon will be upset and want it back. Is there a way to "unlink" the item from the Chromatic Dragon magically or through some type of transfer of ownership of equal or greater power so as the Chromatic will back off? A spell, a ritual, etc.?
First off, be fully prepared for the players to say "oh heck no, we're not stealing from a dragon horde!", and then go through ideas until they decide to set a trap to kill the dragon.
Also be prepared for them to say "Oh heck yeah, we're stealing ALL of this here dragon horde!".
I believe that there may be some nondetection spells which could be put to creative use... Ah, yes. The spell is actually called Nondetection. Logically, as long as it's up, the dragon won't be able to detect the item. But when it drops...
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How is it currently linked to the dragon? Beyond it being in their horde?
Thoruk has a good idea with nondetection. They might also try something like putting it in a Leomunds secret chest which will move it to the ethereal, or in a demiplane or something that can put it on another plane, which will make it harder to find.
Or if you’re saying the dragon is attuned to it, someone else attuning to it will break the dragon’s attunement.
But if the idea of this link is yours, it’s a homebrew concept, and you can just make up whatever process you like to end the link.
One potentially interesting wrinkle is the idea from Fizban’s of a dragon’s power (age) being tied to the size of its horde. And if you remove enough expensive items from a horde, you might theoretically de-age the dragon, making it weaker. So depending on the items value, the dragon might be really motivated to get it back, or at least get something of equal value in its place.
Take the Arkenstone. "I'm almost willing to let you TAKE IT, if only to drive Oakenshield mad!"
As to the question ... Modify Memory?
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
My suggestion is if you want it to happen then be flexible and make it easy.
If players do something that seems like it would work like casting nondetection or remove curse then let them do it but remember you are always in charge of how well it works, maybe these are only temporary fixs. Also be prepared to make something up if they role a knowledge check the answer just needs to be intuitive for example:
Any of those gives ideas for the players to come up with alternative solutions then just be flexible. If they want to cast speak with dead or dream to try to contact the owner to gain their blessing then let them even though the spell may not strictly speaking work that way. You can use it to guide them where you want them to go. For example maybe the item is enough to conjure the spirit to ask them and the spirit asks something of them in return or the spell guides them to a grave to perform the seance. The dream spell could reveal the target is dead or alert them to something else.
Basically rule of cool, try to yes and, and if you need hints you don't need a specific solution in mind just say stuff that sounds cool and let the players fill in the rest.
Thoruk:
I intend for them to be much inclined to want this item, but likely not ballsy enough to push their luck. Thanks for the heads up on the Nondetection spell. This is my first time as GM and I'm low level in my only other DnD campaign so I'm still figuring out a lot.
Xalthu:
It is mainly just a part of their horde. Nothing specific so far as I have deemed. I didn't at all think of transdimensional storage, like I mentioned to Thoruk, I'm fairly new to DnD. About 6 months in really. I wouldn't think it as an attunement per se. Speaking of Fizban's, I feel like somewhere I had read about dragon's blood or offering the item to another dragon to change ownership but I can't recall where I read that. I don't remember that about age linked to horde size, but that's interesting and I'm gonna check that out.
Musicscout:
I haven't heard of Modify Memory but I'm still learning about the spells. Would be interesting to use on something to that size and I wonder if it would even be possible against a dragon.
Solar:
I love those ideas, that helps a lot too. I definitely have a better understand of the routes I can take now to move the story through.
Everyone: Thank you all for the helpful responses, sorry it took so long to reply. Thanksgiving craziness.
Well, if it’s just some random item, there’s not really much need to do anything. The PCs take it and leave, and then it’s not the dragon’s stuff anymore. It can just be that simple.
If it’s really important to the dragon, it might try something like casting Locate Object, but that’s only got a range of 1,000 feet. Though flying around, a dragon could cover a pretty big area pretty quickly; and terrify the countryside in the process. Another option could be deciding the PCs are beneath it, and hiring a group of detectives/mercenaries to retrieve it.
I guess the real question is, why do you want the item “unlinked?” Maybe people can give better strategies if they understand the reasoning.
Basically, I want this Young Red Dragon to have somehow acquired this rare-very rare magical item and added it to its horde. The adventurers will be trying to get this item from the dragon. Based on the players, I assume they will try to steal the item as the dragon is not the main objective here but just a large obstacle. From what my understanding was, the dragon would be very vengeful about losing an item from his horde and hunt them down. I also assumed that dragons were linked somehow to their horde and were like this about all of their items and it was seen as weak of them to allow someone to just walk off with their items. I was trying to make this campaign as lore accurate as possible, but, since I am fairly new to DnD, I am still learning the difference between Hollywood dragons and DnD dragons.
The big thing to remember is, there is no one truly correct way to run it. There are things written in books that describe how a dragon might behave. But DM's are free, and encouraged, to change those things as they see fit. So, in your world, if you want dragons to have some kind of magical link to their treasure, then they do. Or if you want just this one single dragon to have such a link, and none of the others do, then that's what happens. The books say that dragons guard their treasure jealously, but exactly how tightly they keep an inventory is also up to you. If there's a link, you have a built-in reason the dragon will notice something missing. If no link, you can decide if, and when it notices. You might let the PCs get away with it until they are an appropriate level to fight the thing, at which point it shows up wanting its stuff back.
If you want to homebrew in a link, then you can also just homebrew a way to break the link, and what that will be is entirely up to how difficult you want to make it on the characters. If you just want to get on with it, you can say, once they carry it out of the lair, it's not the dragon's anymore, link broken. Or you could say they need to cast a spell, like maybe a remove curse or something. That gives the PCs a little speed bump to get past, where the real trick will be figuring out that's an option. Seems like you've got another dragon in the mix, so maybe they can do it (usually for a price). Or maybe they need to perform the dragon de-linking ritual which you invent. So, its sort of, do you want the challenge to be getting the item, and then just move on with the story, or do you want them breaking the link to become a side quest?
The retrieval of the item is part of the main quest. Since there doesn't seem to be any set in stone rule about a dragon's treasure then I suppose I can determine that when I get closer to that point. Like you said, it is up to my descretion as to how it can play out. The fun part for me is I am making this campaign and one of the players has been a DM for 20+ years, so I'm hoping he won't see every move a mile away.
Who cares if he does? Just because you can predict the plot doesn't mean you don't enjoy it. A forever DM appreciates how hard it is to DM and any chance they get to not be the DM.