I'm running Curse of Strahd, and I'd like to get a second opinion about one option the adventure has.
(not sure if the next text needs to be in a spoiler; please let me know if it's not required in this subforum)
For Doru, Donavich's son, we have this information:
If the characters restrain Doru and either promise him blood or threaten to destroy him, or if they kill him and then raise him from the dead, he recounts the events that led to his downfall [...]
To raise him from the dead, I suppose True Resurrection or Wish are valid options, but is there any other way?
If not, those spells aren't available to the characters at the expected levels for the module. Is the idea to ask another NPC for help? Maybe use the Luck Blade from Castle Ravenloft?
In the 2014 rules, it appeared to be possible to just destroy the undead and then cast resurrection on the remains (or even raise dead if the original death was recent enough). In 2024 that doesn't seem permitted. For specific options within the module
The Dark Gift of Zhudun (obtainable in the Amber Temple) should work, as Kasimir Velikov thinks it can be used on Patrina Velikovna, who is currently a banshee.
Would that option bring Doru back as a vampire spawn again? I mean RAW. I remember this conversation on Twitter.:
@Hub_Libertarian Another FB group question. Fighter dies from death tyrant, raised as zombie, killed, revivify w/in 1 min, does that work? @JeremyECrawford If you cast revivify on a zombie, the creature returns as a zombie. The spell doesn't change creature type.
I could allow it, but maybe I'd be creating an exception for the spell that I'd need to stick to in similar situations later, though my friends are lovely people even if I don't keep my word :D
In the 2014 rules, it appeared to be possible to just destroy the undead and then cast resurrection on the remains (or even raise dead if the original death was recent enough). In 2024 that doesn't seem permitted. For specific options within the module
The Dark Gift of Zhudun (obtainable in the Amber Temple) should work, as Kasimir Velikov thinks it can be used on Patrina Velikovna, who is currently a banshee.
Mmm. Both spells say they're not for undead? But you mentioned it was allowed in 2014 but not in 2024. I'm probably missing some differences—could you tell me what they are?
I like the idea about Dark Gift of Zhudun! ;) It's one way, sure!
Oh, I see. Regarding Revivify, also suggested by wagnarokkr, I could consider allowing it. I'll think about it.
I also think getting access to powerful spells will be difficult for the players, so I could go with the suggestion from Pantagruel666, as a sidequest.
In the party we don’t have a Paladin, but we do have a Cleric. He started out as a lawful guy, but lately his heart's been shifting to a not-so-good one :D
Mmm. Both spells say they're not for undead? But you mentioned it was allowed in 2014 but not in 2024. I'm probably missing some differences—could you tell me what they are?
I like the idea about Dark Gift of Zhudun! ;) It's one way, sure!
In 2014, the wording is "The spell can't return an undead creature to life", but that was interpreted to mean that you can't cast it on a currently active undead -- if you animate the corpse of a human as a zombie, and then hack it to bits, the result is the corpse of a human, not the corpse of a zombie, and thus it's a valid target. This was, however, somewhat debated.
In the end, you have to consider if Doru get raise from the dead to recounts the events that led to his downfall brings more to your campaign than what the rules actually permit or forbid. Rulewise, as DM you could always justify it by saying the Church is on sanctified ground, which has inexplicable transcending powers when it comes to ressurecting undeads. Or a unique happenstance from which the demiplane of Ravenloft exceptionally let magic reunite deeply grieving father and son.
Your campaign won't miss much if the party never learn that last year Doru, a wizard and some Barovians stormed Castle Ravenloft in revolt and was killed by Strahd then turned into a vampire spawn.
But them knowing brings some more history, and also questions that the adventure don't necessarily all give, like how exactly he was killed, who's is masterm who was this wizard and why he lured them, what was the revolt for etc... that you may have to be prepared to answer, unless you say Doru's memory to hazzy to remember such details...
In the end, you have to consider if Doru get raise from the dead to recounts the events that led to his downfall brings more to your campaign than what the rules actually permit or forbid. Rulewise, as DM you could always justify it by saying the Church is on sanctified ground, which has inexplicable transcending powers when it comes to ressurecting undeads. Or a unique happenstance from which the demiplane of Ravenloft exceptionally let magic reunite deeply grieving father and son.
Your campaign won't miss much if the party never learn that last year Doru, a wizard and some Barovians stormed Castle Ravenloft in revolt and was killed by Strahd then turned into a vampire spawn.
But them knowing brings some more history, and also questions that the adventure don't necessarily all give, like how exactly he was killed, who's is masterm who was this wizard and why he lured them, what was the revolt for etc... that you may have to be prepared to answer, unless you say Doru's memory to hazzy to remember such details...
That's a great advice, thank you Plague! And I agree it's better to not force a special situation breaking rules. The player will decide for themselves and figure it out based on their current abilities.
Like you said, maybe I'm thinking about a possibility that's too hard to achieve within the module, and it could just end up causing a bigger mess :D
I'm running Curse of Strahd, and I'd like to get a second opinion about one option the adventure has.
(not sure if the next text needs to be in a spoiler; please let me know if it's not required in this subforum)
For Doru, Donavich's son, we have this information:
To raise him from the dead, I suppose True Resurrection or Wish are valid options, but is there any other way?
If not, those spells aren't available to the characters at the expected levels for the module. Is the idea to ask another NPC for help? Maybe use the Luck Blade from Castle Ravenloft?
If they kill him, Revivify will work, right? It has to be done quickly but it doesn't exclude Undead the way that e.g. Raise Dead does.
pronouns: he/she/they
In the 2014 rules, it appeared to be possible to just destroy the undead and then cast resurrection on the remains (or even raise dead if the original death was recent enough). In 2024 that doesn't seem permitted. For specific options within the module
The Dark Gift of Zhudun (obtainable in the Amber Temple) should work, as Kasimir Velikov thinks it can be used on Patrina Velikovna, who is currently a banshee.
I'd say it's DM call if Revivify revive the undead with 1 HP or raise it back to life as humanoid.
It's possible your party might not have access to magic powerful enough to raise Doru from the dead.
Mine put an end to his tourment, no way Paladin would have raised it with such hatred for undeads. :)
Thank you wagnarokkr!
Would that option bring Doru back as a vampire spawn again? I mean RAW. I remember this conversation on Twitter.:
I could allow it, but maybe I'd be creating an exception for the spell that I'd need to stick to in similar situations later, though my friends are lovely people even if I don't keep my word :D
Thank you Pantagruel666!
Mmm. Both spells say they're not for undead? But you mentioned it was allowed in 2014 but not in 2024. I'm probably missing some differences—could you tell me what they are?
I like the idea about Dark Gift of Zhudun! ;) It's one way, sure!
Thank you Plaguescarred!
Oh, I see. Regarding Revivify, also suggested by wagnarokkr, I could consider allowing it. I'll think about it.
I also think getting access to powerful spells will be difficult for the players, so I could go with the suggestion from Pantagruel666, as a sidequest.
In the party we don’t have a Paladin, but we do have a Cleric. He started out as a lawful guy, but lately his heart's been shifting to a not-so-good one :D
In 2014, the wording is "The spell can't return an undead creature to life", but that was interpreted to mean that you can't cast it on a currently active undead -- if you animate the corpse of a human as a zombie, and then hack it to bits, the result is the corpse of a human, not the corpse of a zombie, and thus it's a valid target. This was, however, somewhat debated.
This thread is like reading ufo files or something the government released reluctantly and so they redacted everything.
you're not cleared for that, citizen
pronouns: he/she/they
Shhh... they're watching... Join us...
In the end, you have to consider if Doru get raise from the dead to recounts the events that led to his downfall brings more to your campaign than what the rules actually permit or forbid. Rulewise, as DM you could always justify it by saying the Church is on sanctified ground, which has inexplicable transcending powers when it comes to ressurecting undeads. Or a unique happenstance from which the demiplane of Ravenloft exceptionally let magic reunite deeply grieving father and son.
Your campaign won't miss much if the party never learn that last year Doru, a wizard and some Barovians stormed Castle Ravenloft in revolt and was killed by Strahd then turned into a vampire spawn.
But them knowing brings some more history, and also questions that the adventure don't necessarily all give, like how exactly he was killed, who's is masterm who was this wizard and why he lured them, what was the revolt for etc... that you may have to be prepared to answer, unless you say Doru's memory to hazzy to remember such details...
That's a great advice, thank you Plague! And I agree it's better to not force a special situation breaking rules. The player will decide for themselves and figure it out based on their current abilities.
Like you said, maybe I'm thinking about a possibility that's too hard to achieve within the module, and it could just end up causing a bigger mess :D
Thank you all for your suggestions! Very helpful!
I would note that CoS covers a lot of low probability outcomes, and this is one of them.