I'm going to be running a D&D naval battle at sometime in the future. Low tech with no cannons or guns. I'm thinking range weapons and spells, grappling hooks, cutlasses etc. Anyone run one and has any thoughts? Anything I should look out for? Things that players did that were unexpected?
Before Cannons were invented you had ships that contained a ram in the bow to disable ships, they were powered by oars so that the can go fast in a single direction and puncture the opposing ship. Once the boat rammed the other ship, the aggressor would then be able to board. No need for grappling hooks. Also if you had oars on the side, you couldn't really use grappling hooks.
Sailing in those days was not very good in the Roman days if you had to sail into the wind. Lateen sails were invented around 100's AD, but they did not improve on sailing characteristic, they were just cheaper to own and operate. About when the Caravel was invented in the 1400s is when humans could better sail into the wind with accuracy to fight. By then, cannons were well in use.
Look at Roman naval battles for ideas and ship sizes & the amount of men on a boat. It will also give the vocabulary to better describe what is going on.
Realize many but not all boats with rowers had them chained to oars as slaves. That meant if the ship sunk, the rowers drowned. It also meant that if you had 96 rowers (about 16 oars per side), they did not fight as they could not be untied to actually fight.
There are rules for ships in ghosts of saltmarsh. Well, stats for them at least. What level are the characters? Because fireball might as well be a cannon.
I'm thinking that there will be approx 20 oars per side and that they would all be voluntary rowers so not chained. Apart from the rowers, there will be a few other people on board, such as the helmsman and captain, plus my party which comprises around six level 6 or 7 characters.Working out how the ships could move is going to be the main tricky part. I think that my party's ship will probably only take on two other ships. I'll take a look at the Ghosts of Saltmarsh - thanks for the tip.
My ships won't have rams, but I like that idea for the future. You are probably right about grappling hooks. Maybe nets that could be slung across so that people could scramble from one ship to another would work better. I think that fireballs at the waterline might be the best idea for sinking. Time period is definitely pre-1400's, so don't need to worry about different types of sails.
I'll spend some time looking at Roman naval battles - good idea. Thanks for that!
Keep in mind that due to distances involved, longbows and Eldritch Blast users will have distinct advantage in your scenario.
Also, there was something called Greek Fire, which, in D&D is basically Alchemists fire, the item. Since ships are made of wood, well....
Depending on how complex you want things to be, keep in mind that weather has huge impact on sailing ships. Wind direction, as already noted by Character, as well as rain, lightning, and storms. Since there are no mountains or hills on the open sea, wind is faster, louder, more powerful.
By the mid middle ages, but before gunpowder sailing has developed in the north sea such that ramming was no longer viable. Instead ships developed extra levels at the front and rear (fore and stern castles) in order to stack archers and fighting men on them. The castles coupled with higher free boards gave them a height advantage over galleys. See the battle of Sluys
Ramming and rowing galleys remained viable in the Mediterranean but those ships were never really suited for the north sea to begin with and a sailing ship that could outmaneuver rowers had the advantage of pullimg up alongside a galley negating it's ram and often braking it's para.
So you should look at where your naval battle takes place, calm sea like the med or more rough ones.
Unfortunately most punished end material (ghosts of the saltmarsh) doesn't do a great job with this time period.
I'm actually thinking about using viking longships, so there won't be any upper decks or rams. Probably rough seas as per the North Sea rather than calm ones. The vikings managed to travel vast distances in ships which had a single square sail supplemented by oars, so it should be fairly realistic to use such boats on a rough sea.
I've also been thinking about the practicalities of how to implement the battle on D&D Beyond Maps VTT. I think that I'll have to do a zoomed out map that has ship tokens for moving the ships around the larger area so the party can decide which of the other ships to take on and then a zoomed in map showing two ships in conflict. This is going to be a lot of map prep!
I'm actually thinking about using viking longships, so there won't be any upper decks or rams. Probably rough seas as per the North Sea rather than calm ones. The vikings managed to travel vast distances in ships which had a single square sail supplemented by oars, so it should be fairly realistic to use such boats on a rough sea.
I've also been thinking about the practicalities of how to implement the battle on D&D Beyond Maps VTT. I think that I'll have to do a zoomed out map that has ship tokens for moving the ships around the larger area so the party can decide which of the other ships to take on and then a zoomed in map showing two ships in conflict. This is going to be a lot of map prep!
There are a several Naval wargames on the market, most are modern propulsion, a couple from the sailing era and even a fantasy one or so. See if one is playing at a nearby game store and see if they let you observe, what you probably want is how the rules are designed for movement. Boats can't turn on a time, but they also don't need to make large wide loops either. Boats are usually always moving forward. Plagiarize, the various rules so that you have something that fits your needs to bring a perception/illusion of realism.
I have found over the years, the more realistic you can make it, the easier it is for players to accept what is going on, and allows them to suspend belief for other parts of a campaign.
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I'm going to be running a D&D naval battle at sometime in the future. Low tech with no cannons or guns. I'm thinking range weapons and spells, grappling hooks, cutlasses etc. Anyone run one and has any thoughts? Anything I should look out for? Things that players did that were unexpected?
Before Cannons were invented you had ships that contained a ram in the bow to disable ships, they were powered by oars so that the can go fast in a single direction and puncture the opposing ship. Once the boat rammed the other ship, the aggressor would then be able to board. No need for grappling hooks. Also if you had oars on the side, you couldn't really use grappling hooks.
Sailing in those days was not very good in the Roman days if you had to sail into the wind. Lateen sails were invented around 100's AD, but they did not improve on sailing characteristic, they were just cheaper to own and operate. About when the Caravel was invented in the 1400s is when humans could better sail into the wind with accuracy to fight. By then, cannons were well in use.
Look at Roman naval battles for ideas and ship sizes & the amount of men on a boat. It will also give the vocabulary to better describe what is going on.
Realize many but not all boats with rowers had them chained to oars as slaves. That meant if the ship sunk, the rowers drowned. It also meant that if you had 96 rowers (about 16 oars per side), they did not fight as they could not be untied to actually fight.
There are rules for ships in ghosts of saltmarsh. Well, stats for them at least.
What level are the characters? Because fireball might as well be a cannon.
I'm thinking that there will be approx 20 oars per side and that they would all be voluntary rowers so not chained. Apart from the rowers, there will be a few other people on board, such as the helmsman and captain, plus my party which comprises around six level 6 or 7 characters.Working out how the ships could move is going to be the main tricky part. I think that my party's ship will probably only take on two other ships. I'll take a look at the Ghosts of Saltmarsh - thanks for the tip.
Wow! So much knowledge in a mere few minutes!
My ships won't have rams, but I like that idea for the future. You are probably right about grappling hooks. Maybe nets that could be slung across so that people could scramble from one ship to another would work better. I think that fireballs at the waterline might be the best idea for sinking. Time period is definitely pre-1400's, so don't need to worry about different types of sails.
I'll spend some time looking at Roman naval battles - good idea. Thanks for that!
Keep in mind that due to distances involved, longbows and Eldritch Blast users will have distinct advantage in your scenario.
Also, there was something called Greek Fire, which, in D&D is basically Alchemists fire, the item. Since ships are made of wood, well....
Depending on how complex you want things to be, keep in mind that weather has huge impact on sailing ships. Wind direction, as already noted by Character, as well as rain, lightning, and storms. Since there are no mountains or hills on the open sea, wind is faster, louder, more powerful.
Thank you for this. I was going to consider tides but I hadn't thought to factor in a storm so that might be a good added complication for the party.
By the mid middle ages, but before gunpowder sailing has developed in the north sea such that ramming was no longer viable. Instead ships developed extra levels at the front and rear (fore and stern castles) in order to stack archers and fighting men on them. The castles coupled with higher free boards gave them a height advantage over galleys. See the battle of Sluys
Ramming and rowing galleys remained viable in the Mediterranean but those ships were never really suited for the north sea to begin with and a sailing ship that could outmaneuver rowers had the advantage of pullimg up alongside a galley negating it's ram and often braking it's para.
So you should look at where your naval battle takes place, calm sea like the med or more rough ones.
Unfortunately most punished end material (ghosts of the saltmarsh) doesn't do a great job with this time period.
I'm actually thinking about using viking longships, so there won't be any upper decks or rams. Probably rough seas as per the North Sea rather than calm ones. The vikings managed to travel vast distances in ships which had a single square sail supplemented by oars, so it should be fairly realistic to use such boats on a rough sea.
I've also been thinking about the practicalities of how to implement the battle on D&D Beyond Maps VTT. I think that I'll have to do a zoomed out map that has ship tokens for moving the ships around the larger area so the party can decide which of the other ships to take on and then a zoomed in map showing two ships in conflict. This is going to be a lot of map prep!
There are a several Naval wargames on the market, most are modern propulsion, a couple from the sailing era and even a fantasy one or so. See if one is playing at a nearby game store and see if they let you observe, what you probably want is how the rules are designed for movement. Boats can't turn on a time, but they also don't need to make large wide loops either. Boats are usually always moving forward. Plagiarize, the various rules so that you have something that fits your needs to bring a perception/illusion of realism.
I have found over the years, the more realistic you can make it, the easier it is for players to accept what is going on, and allows them to suspend belief for other parts of a campaign.