The last few campaigns I've both been run and played in, we've done 4d6 keep 3. After rolling all six stats, we can do it one more time and then pick which group of six we want, and assign them where we want. So basically we're rolling 2 character's stats and picking one.
There can be a pretty big stat variance between players, but I haven't really seen it affect play. I find having the choice on which group of six to go with (or whether to roll the second set at all) gives the feeling of control without sacrificing randomness. I also like being able to start with an 18 or a 6 in a stat. ( I know a 3 is possible, but I haven't seen it yet.) The bounded nature of array and point buy feel so blah to me. This method has worked well at our table, but, of course, YMMV.
If I had a player roll absolute crap twice in a row, I would probably allow them to roll again (the old retire the character to a farm routine). That has yet to happen.
For Example:
I just rolled 11, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14 and 8, 10, 10, 11, 12, 16. The first group has a much higher average, and might fit great for the Jack-of-all-know-it-all Bard or Multi-class character I had in mind, but the second might be perfect for my character that I want to be a great caster but weak in other areas. Starting with an 18 (after racials) would allow me to pick more fun Feats for ASIs, etc. And I get to rp an 8 int, cha, dex, str, con, or wis to boot! I would probably choose to go with the second group unless I had a really specific character idea that fit with the first group better (I LOVE FEATS!!!). Even though both those groupings fell very close to array or point buy options, I already feel more invested in the character than if I had used one of those methods, and I got the excitement of rolling some dice over calculating a point buy.
Like many, I hate rolling because it creates winners and losers at the table based on nothing but randomness. No thanks. My only critique of the system you presented is that it takes a lot of rolls and math just to establish stats. I'd rather spend that time doing a point buy that I know supports my vision of the character.
If you feel heroic = big stats I'd tell them they can add 2 to one stat of choice after the point buy. That way everyone can have one stat at or near max (depending on race and possible feats) right from the start. Each party member having one area where they shine above the others should make for lots of heroic moments.
Another way to use stats to make the game more heroic would be the raise the max attribute score from 20 to 24, so that as they level they can become even more monstrous in their particular area of epicness.
In the past when my group wanted heroic characters we would roll the 4d6 method, rerolling any 1s (or also rerolling any 2s). Once we had our six scores, we would just change the lowest to an 18. In most cases people ended up with at least two numbers above 16, making for pretty powerful characters, and everyone got at least one 18 so they had a really strong main stat.
Like many, I hate rolling because it creates winners and losers at the table based on nothing but randomness. No thanks. My only critique of the system you presented is that it takes a lot of rolls and math just to establish stats. I'd rather spend that time doing a point buy that I know supports my vision of the character.
If you feel heroic = big stats I'd tell them they can add 2 to one stat of choice after the point buy. That way everyone can have one stat at or near max (depending on race and possible feats) right from the start. Each party member having one area where they shine above the others should make for lots of heroic moments.
Another way to use stats to make the game more heroic would be the raise the max attribute score from 20 to 24, so that as they level they can become even more monstrous in their particular area of epicness.
I agree with this though. Our group now does exclusively point-by and then if we want heroic characters than after the point-by is done we can turn our lowest number into an 18, but more often than not we just use standard point by.
Why do we want to avoid the standard array? The entire concept of rolling stats is a holdover from previous editions and only serves to unbalance the game in a very predictable way. It takes the dice out of the equation (unless you randomly roll a 1 or a 2, which can feel punishing or unlucky) and will actively degrade the tabletop experience.
This post has potentially manipulated dice roll results.
DND beyond has the option to make this really easy in the dice roller...
Ability scores: 1391681312
Ability scores: 81410141017
Ability scores: 11815131215
This option will likely produce really powerful characters that will load up on feats right away....I think the issue is will it encourage more diversity or less in character selection?
Why do we want to avoid the standard array? The entire concept of rolling stats is a holdover from previous editions and only serves to unbalance the game in a very predictable way. It takes the dice out of the equation (unless you randomly roll a 1 or a 2, which can feel punishing or unlucky) and will actively degrade the tabletop experience.
Speak for yourself. In every game I have played the dice were rolled and usually with extra options to get decent stats. The game remained perfectly balanced. You can have 18 in every stat for every PC and still make a balanced game.
Balance is in the hand of the DM, not the dice.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Personally, I've always been of the opinion that the PCs in a D&D campaign ended up together because their stats tended to be above average. It's why I've always used the 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s method. But I don't go so far as to have my players roll up 3 sets of stats.
I find that there is something - comforting about using the dice to create my character's stats. Sometimes, they even give me thoughts into backstory... I once was playing a wizard in a campaign run by another, and we used the 3d6 straight down method for attributes, and I had rolled an 8 CON... part of his backstory was that he was afflicted with a disease when younger that caused him to not have as much stamina...
As far as points systems go, I think they definitely have their place, but I tend to prefer them in settings like Shadowrun. It just makes more sense to me there vs in D&D.
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ChaoticGoodPaladin2 (because 1 is never enough)
Famous Last words #27: "Of course I trust the thief, he's in our party" Famous Last Words #32: "The minotaur's got me in a bear hug? GREAT! I cast Flame Strike on it!"
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The last few campaigns I've both been run and played in, we've done 4d6 keep 3. After rolling all six stats, we can do it one more time and then pick which group of six we want, and assign them where we want. So basically we're rolling 2 character's stats and picking one.
There can be a pretty big stat variance between players, but I haven't really seen it affect play. I find having the choice on which group of six to go with (or whether to roll the second set at all) gives the feeling of control without sacrificing randomness. I also like being able to start with an 18 or a 6 in a stat. ( I know a 3 is possible, but I haven't seen it yet.) The bounded nature of array and point buy feel so blah to me. This method has worked well at our table, but, of course, YMMV.
If I had a player roll absolute crap twice in a row, I would probably allow them to roll again (the old retire the character to a farm routine). That has yet to happen.
For Example:
I just rolled 11, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14 and 8, 10, 10, 11, 12, 16. The first group has a much higher average, and might fit great for the Jack-of-all-know-it-all Bard or Multi-class character I had in mind, but the second might be perfect for my character that I want to be a great caster but weak in other areas. Starting with an 18 (after racials) would allow me to pick more fun Feats for ASIs, etc. And I get to rp an 8 int, cha, dex, str, con, or wis to boot! I would probably choose to go with the second group unless I had a really specific character idea that fit with the first group better (I LOVE FEATS!!!). Even though both those groupings fell very close to array or point buy options, I already feel more invested in the character than if I had used one of those methods, and I got the excitement of rolling some dice over calculating a point buy.
Really my favorite quote so far. I do tend toward the chaos of the random dice, but I appreciate the illusion of control in the system we use.
Like many, I hate rolling because it creates winners and losers at the table based on nothing but randomness. No thanks. My only critique of the system you presented is that it takes a lot of rolls and math just to establish stats. I'd rather spend that time doing a point buy that I know supports my vision of the character.
If you feel heroic = big stats I'd tell them they can add 2 to one stat of choice after the point buy. That way everyone can have one stat at or near max (depending on race and possible feats) right from the start. Each party member having one area where they shine above the others should make for lots of heroic moments.
Another way to use stats to make the game more heroic would be the raise the max attribute score from 20 to 24, so that as they level they can become even more monstrous in their particular area of epicness.
In the past when my group wanted heroic characters we would roll the 4d6 method, rerolling any 1s (or also rerolling any 2s). Once we had our six scores, we would just change the lowest to an 18. In most cases people ended up with at least two numbers above 16, making for pretty powerful characters, and everyone got at least one 18 so they had a really strong main stat.
I agree with this though. Our group now does exclusively point-by and then if we want heroic characters than after the point-by is done we can turn our lowest number into an 18, but more often than not we just use standard point by.
Why do we want to avoid the standard array? The entire concept of rolling stats is a holdover from previous editions and only serves to unbalance the game in a very predictable way. It takes the dice out of the equation (unless you randomly roll a 1 or a 2, which can feel punishing or unlucky) and will actively degrade the tabletop experience.
DND beyond has the option to make this really easy in the dice roller...
Ability scores: 13 9 16 8 13 12
Ability scores: 8 14 10 14 10 17
Ability scores: 11 8 15 13 12 15
This option will likely produce really powerful characters that will load up on feats right away....I think the issue is will it encourage more diversity or less in character selection?
Speak for yourself. In every game I have played the dice were rolled and usually with extra options to get decent stats. The game remained perfectly balanced. You can have 18 in every stat for every PC and still make a balanced game.
Balance is in the hand of the DM, not the dice.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Sometimes balance is in the hand of the DM to make up for the dice.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Personally, I've always been of the opinion that the PCs in a D&D campaign ended up together because their stats tended to be above average. It's why I've always used the 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s method. But I don't go so far as to have my players roll up 3 sets of stats.
I find that there is something - comforting about using the dice to create my character's stats. Sometimes, they even give me thoughts into backstory... I once was playing a wizard in a campaign run by another, and we used the 3d6 straight down method for attributes, and I had rolled an 8 CON... part of his backstory was that he was afflicted with a disease when younger that caused him to not have as much stamina...
As far as points systems go, I think they definitely have their place, but I tend to prefer them in settings like Shadowrun. It just makes more sense to me there vs in D&D.
ChaoticGoodPaladin2 (because 1 is never enough)
Famous Last words #27: "Of course I trust the thief, he's in our party"
Famous Last Words #32: "The minotaur's got me in a bear hug? GREAT! I cast Flame Strike on it!"