I want to preface this with a few bits of information, just so things will be read in context:
1) I'm over 50 and have played RPGs, including D&D, for nearly 40 years.
2) I've published 2 novels and have written close to 5 million words in my life so I have an idea about pacing, plot and how to get readers (and players) to go where they need to.
3) The Curse of Strahd material, as written, sucks.
I don't want to go over the entirety of the material because I don't think that would benefit anyone, but I would like to point out a few examples of issues with the material as it's written. This comes from playing through it once and reading it over several times.
Strahd himself is portrayed as both the most powerful ruler of his own prison and the most inept villain ever. On the one hand, he is trapped by the mists that surround Borovia so he cannot leave. However, the Vistani who serve him may come and go as they please, usually to lead adventurers into Strahd's realm. So the powerful wizard/vampire can't leave but the obvious ***** ripoffs can just because he allows it? Huh?
The mists that have cut off Borovia from the surrounding lands seem to make no sense at all. They keep others out...unless Strahd's Vistani bring them through...or they come through hunting Strahd (as in the case of Rudolph von Richten, acclaimed vampire hunter)...or they come through seeking their mentor (as in the case of Ezmerelda, von Richten's protoge'). So do these damned mists work or not? If they do, how do all of these random people just stroll in? If they don't, then why does Strahd need to send the Vistani out to lure in the unwary?
The vampire hunter von Richten is also a problem. Borovia is a closed system...cut off from the outside world unless the Vistani bring people in with them. Not a lot of 'new' people around. So von Richten is hunting Strahd but he's not a young man any more and he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew. He understands that Strahd would like nothing more than to capture and torture him so he hides among the people of Borovia, posing as someone else. HUH? Strahd has spies everywhere from the bats and wolves of the wild to the Vistani that have sided with him. Some guy just shows up one day, out of the blue, and nobody wonders if he might not just HAPPEN to be the mysterious vampire hunter their master is seeking?
At least one powerful item that the party should seek (to make their job easier if nothing else) is the skull of a silver dragon slain by Strahd centuries ago. When placed in the ruins of the dragon's castle (he ruled there in Human form) a beacon is lit that will diminish the perpetual cloud cover that keeps the sunlight at bay. This brings hope to the people of Borovia and makes it tougher for vampires to move by day. The only problem is that the skull is INSIDE Strahd's castle! Anyone trying to get it is likely to be caught, tortured, killed and then raised as a vampire thrall of Strahd's. So...if the party isn't strong enough to get into, and out of, the castle alive, then the skull is moot. If they are, then they will likely have killed Strahd, removed the curse on the land and done all of the things that returning the skull would do like restoring hope and light to a downtrodden people.
The adventure is designed for 'a party of 4-6 players level 1-10', mainly because the earliest parts of the adventure are not that hazardous. Our party started at lvl 1 and everything seemed pretty balanced as far as threat level and risk/reward. However, there are several magical items that would benefit the PCs greatly in their quest. However, as with the dragon skull I mentioned, the items are INSIDE the castle. Now Strahd is a powerful wizard, a vampire and has a powerful force of vampire minions. So HOW exactly is the party supposed to get into the castle again?
In short, the adventure attempts to take the horror aspects of a classic Hammer vampire film and transplant them into D&D...which absolutely doesn't work. Creaking floors, rolling thunder and rattling chains all sound scary right up until the ghost emerges from the wall and the entire party disintegrates it in one round. Most of the tropes in horror films are scary because the character in the story are powerless against them. Try doing this to your players and they'll either curbstomp the bad guys or leave citing lack of 'player agency' because you won't let them take the actions they want. You know...actually play the game? Strahd himself (as well as most of his minions) fall flat or steamroll the party utterly. In a party of '4-6 characters, levels 1-10' how tough would it be for Strahd to Charm a quarter of the party and have them turn on their friends? If the party CAN get into the castle and get the magic treasure, they're now almost IMMUNE to most of the enemies in the adventure so what's the point?
To me, the whole things feels like a missed opportunity that is lauded as some great story but is actually a recipe for a good afternoon of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
As far as I remember Strahd is cursed to stay in his lands, a curse that the Vistani does not have. Much like the Classic Dracula he has a weakness that bind him to his land (dracula has to rest in ground from his own land). I dont really see this as bad writing.
Dungeons and Dragons are not really ment for feeling powerless, and although the Ravenloft theme is meant to have a sort of horror feel I would still say it should not be mistaken for something like call of cthulhu, but is more on the light side of horror.
Im sure that in pretty much any campaign book you can find some inconsistency or things where you think "who dont they just do this". I imagine that writing an interactive game campaign that is not railroading the game but still gives good material to work with is a lot different from writing a "Novel" where you can control everything in the writing process.
To bad you had a bad time with the campaign. I havent played it myself, only read it, but want to play it some day.
With regard to the Vistani and the curse Strahd has: "During one of Strahd’s military campaigns, years before he became a vampire, a group of Vistani rescued him after he was wounded in battle. These Vistani not only nursed Strahd back to health but also delivered him safely home. As a reward for their generosity, Strahd declared that all Vistani had the right to come and go from his land as they please, and this privilege extends to the present day. Thus, Vistani can travel freely through the fog that surrounds Barovia, without fear of harm or entrapment."
So, as I said, even though he himself is trapped, the Vistani can come and go as they please because HE wills it.
As for the rest, I think the main reason I struggled is that my time there was ill-spent. The DM had a theme in mind but I'm not sure if he had the experience to portray it well. On the one hand, he didn't want us to just march up to the castle, attack Strahd and die. To this end he kept warning us that Strahd had all sorts of minions to command. On the other hand, we followed a 'prophecy' which I think was his way of presenting the Vistani fortune teller's story and all of the Tarot cards but essentially we felt like we were dragged around through the quest line.
Many players in our group were new to gaming, I was one of the veterans but I was very rusty (I hadn't played since 3.5 started) and then we had two more veteran D&D players for a total party of 8. Big group that was sometimes short on ideas as to what to do.
I suspect that it was a combination of the mismatched team, an inexperienced DM who altered the material and the fact that Real Life got in the way and forced us to have gaps between games so the whole thing felt like it took longer than it should. Still, having read over the material again recently, I still feel that too much emphasis is placed on obtaining magic items but then that might just be my style.
Before I answer further, I am wondering if this is your first experience with Ravenloft and Strahd? I understand you've been playing about 40 years (7 more than I), but CoS is by far no where near the beginning of the story. Are you familiar with the original Ravenloft module? There is a great deal of history here that would answer many of your concerns.
That said I will address your points, but before I do there is one very important thing to cover that actually addresses much of this... The Dark Powers.
The Dark Powers (TDP from here on in) have always been a major part of the story of Strahd and Ravenloft. Originally they were always referred to rather vaguely, but in CoS they were made more concrete with the aspects trapped in the Amber Temple. Regardless, it is TDP that are responsible for what might appear on the surface as inconsistencies. TDP are pure evil, more evil, and more powerful, than Strahd. Strahd may appear to be the master of his realm, but only as long as TDP let him. They are the true power.
Strahd made his pact with TDP, and their reward to him (Vampirism and Immortality) were merely a trick. Strahd is their prisoner in Barovia, and they imprisoned him because they are evil and enjoy it (and it could be argued they derive their own energy from the evil that happens because of Strahd). The mists keep Strahd from leaving because TDP control the mists, not Strahd.
In the 2nd Edition Ravenloft setting it was established that there were other dark realms beyond Barovia, each with it's own "dark lord", and each seduced and trapped by TDP. Strahd is just one of their play things. Remember this when considering Strahd and Barovia.
Strahd himself is portrayed as both the most powerful ruler of his own prison and the most inept villain ever. On the one hand, he is trapped by the mists that surround Borovia so he cannot leave. However, the Vistani who serve him may come and go as they please, usually to lead adventurers into Strahd's realm. So the powerful wizard/vampire can't leave but the obvious ***** ripoffs can just because he allows it? Huh?
As was pointed out Darkaiser, in this version of the Strahd story, Strahd was aided by the Vistani on the field of battle before he ever became a vampire, and before he became trapped in Barovia. For their service he decreed that they would always be free to come and go from his lands. Since this happened before his "fall" it was a promise he didn't know would matter greatly once the mists came. The dark powers bound him to that promise after his fall. It's not so much that the evil vampire lord lets them come and go, so much as he doesn't have a choice but to allow it.
The mists that have cut off Borovia from the surrounding lands seem to make no sense at all. They keep others out...unless Strahd's Vistani bring them through...or they come through hunting Strahd (as in the case of Rudolph von Richten, acclaimed vampire hunter)...or they come through seeking their mentor (as in the case of Ezmerelda, von Richten's protoge'). So do these damned mists work or not? If they do, how do all of these random people just stroll in? If they don't, then why does Strahd need to send the Vistani out to lure in the unwary?
No, random people do not stroll in and out, the mists work just as they should. Remember, they are controlled by TDP, not Strahd. If TDP don't want someone in Barovia, they won't get in, because when you are outside Barovia you don't find the mists, they find you. Strahd believes that if he can find someone to take his place, he might be able to leave, so he employs the Vistani to look for people to bring back in to Barovia (since they alone can do that). As CoS states, he toys with these people to test them, but inevitably finds them unworthy. Since he cannot leave Strahd is also bored, and has the Vistani bring him people so he can "play with his food." Finally, since Barovians without souls can't produce offspring with souls, and since Strahd can't get nourishment from non-soul people, he also needs to maintain the "genepool" in Barovia, another reason to have the Vistani bring people in.
Occasionally TDP use the mists themselves to bring people to Barovia. Sometimes they do it because they want to punish Strahd, and other times it is for their own (and the DM's by extension) inscrutable reasons. (I decided in my CoS campaign that the PCs were stuck in a time loop, being brought to Barovia multiple times as part of a punishment for Strahd such that there were other versions of the PCs already in Barovia that they could encounter).
As for Von Richten, his protege is a Vistani, and he used her to get himself in to Barovia. VanRichten's son was stolen by Barovian Vistani from Esmerelda's clan and died because of a vampire. Van Richten used Esmerelda to get in to Barovia to find those Vistani and get revenge, and then to kill Strahd. It is interesting to note the text says Van Richten is from Darkon, which is one of the dark realms from the 2e D&D Ravenloft setting with it's own mists and dark lord.
The vampire hunter von Richten is also a problem. Borovia is a closed system...cut off from the outside world unless the Vistani bring people in with them. Not a lot of 'new' people around. So von Richten is hunting Strahd but he's not a young man any more and he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew. He understands that Strahd would like nothing more than to capture and torture him so he hides among the people of Borovia, posing as someone else. HUH? Strahd has spies everywhere from the bats and wolves of the wild to the Vistani that have sided with him. Some guy just shows up one day, out of the blue, and nobody wonders if he might not just HAPPEN to be the mysterious vampire hunter their master is seeking?
On the contrary, there are new people who come to Barovia, either with the Vistani for Strahd, or because TDP have brought them there. The march of ghosts that happens every night at midnight alone is just all the adventurers who have come before and failed. There's no reason Van Richten can't hide from Strahd. Strahd is not all-knowing. He has scrying magic, and has spies, but that doesn't mean he knows everything happening always. He spies can be wrong, or misled, and Van Richten is wearing a magical ring of mind shielding and is usig a hat of disguise. If he entered Barovia that way, and is good at keeping up his persona of Rictavio, there is no reason for Strahd's spies to suspect him of being anything else, and no way for Strahd to read his thoughts to see who he really is. Strahd's spies don't have any reason to assume that every new person who shows up might be a specific vampire hunter they don't know about. If you were Strahd would you want your spies to know there is someone you are afraid of? And there is nothing that indicates Strahd has met Van Richten before, knows what he looks like, or even that he exists.
At least one powerful item that the party should seek (to make their job easier if nothing else) is the skull of a silver dragon slain by Strahd centuries ago. When placed in the ruins of the dragon's castle (he ruled there in Human form) a beacon is lit that will diminish the perpetual cloud cover that keeps the sunlight at bay. This brings hope to the people of Borovia and makes it tougher for vampires to move by day. The only problem is that the skull is INSIDE Strahd's castle! Anyone trying to get it is likely to be caught, tortured, killed and then raised as a vampire thrall of Strahd's. So...if the party isn't strong enough to get into, and out of, the castle alive, then the skull is moot. If they are, then they will likely have killed Strahd, removed the curse on the land and done all of the things that returning the skull would do like restoring hope and light to a downtrodden people.
Depending on the level of the party, it is entirely possible the PCs might find they are not a match for Strahd and might flee before fighting him. The book also suggests that Strahd is toying with them as a game. He invites the PCs to his castle, and perhaps will even let them leave if it strikes his fancy, so that he just kill them later, after they think they've got away. It is entirely plausible for the PCs to get in to the castle and get out with the skull before facing Strahd in battle.
But let's assume they don't go in to the castle before fighting, and killing, Strahd. We recall that in Argynvostholt there are revenants who cannot rest. The becon being lit is what releases them. Killing Strahd won't release them, they will remain. The revenants also don't want Strahd killed because they believe Barovia is his prison, and his death would free him from his punishment for doing evil. Thus if the revenants become aware of the PCs's plans, they will actively try to stop them. Killing the revenants won't work, they just keep coming back. The only way to stop them from interfering with the PCs' plan to kill strahd, is to set them free. The only way the PCs know about the dragonskull is by going to Argynvosholt and encountering the Revenants. It is also important to note that if the beacon is lit, Sir Godfrey does not disappear as the others do, and can be convinced to help fight Strahd, thus the PCs (if they feel they alone are not powerful enough to stop Strahd) have a reason to retrieve the skull to get another ally on top of eliminating Vladimir Horngaard and the other revenants who will try to stop the PCs.
In my game when the PCs made it finally down to Stahd's tomb in the crypts, Vladimir showed up to stop them because they hadn't lit the beacon.
Finally, even if they don't want to get Sir Godfrey on their side, even if they think they can take the revanants, it is possible a Good-aligned party will want to return the skull and light the beacon after they kill Strahd because it is the right thing to do! Even if Stahd dies, the Revenants will not. The PCs can put them to rest by returning the skull.
The adventure is designed for 'a party of 4-6 players level 1-10', mainly because the earliest parts of the adventure are not that hazardous. Our party started at lvl 1 and everything seemed pretty balanced as far as threat level and risk/reward. However, there are several magical items that would benefit the PCs greatly in their quest. However, as with the dragon skull I mentioned, the items are INSIDE the castle. Now Strahd is a powerful wizard, a vampire and has a powerful force of vampire minions. So HOW exactly is the party supposed to get into the castle again?
I'm not sure which items you are referring to beyond the Sun Sword, Tome of Ravenloft, Holy symbol of Ravnkind, and so on, but these won't necessarily be in the castle, it will depend on the Tarokka reading. It is entirely probable that all or most of the items needed will be outside of the castle. Let us say they do end up inside, the PCs might want to try to get in, get them, get out, and then level up some more before attacking Strahd. The DM doesn't have to leave it random, but can just decide they are all outside the castle, and lie to the PCs during the Tarokka reading. Unless the PCs have the book, they won't know what the cards mean.
In short, the adventure attempts to take the horror aspects of a classic Hammer vampire film and transplant them into D&D...which absolutely doesn't work. Creaking floors, rolling thunder and rattling chains all sound scary right up until the ghost emerges from the wall and the entire party disintegrates it in one round. Most of the tropes in horror films are scary because the character in the story are powerless against them.
Curse of Stahd (which is just a new version of the original Ravenloft adventure) is not based on Hammer films or horror movie tropes. It was created by the original authors as a Gothic story like Dracula, and similar ilk. Novels, not movies. The tropes of gothic literature are very specific, and not the same as Hammer-style horror films. Gothic horror is not about scares, or violence, but about atmosphere and dread.
In a party of '4-6 characters, levels 1-10' how tough would it be for Strahd to Charm a quarter of the party and have them turn on their friends?
Yep, that's the point. Players should be afraid that this will happen to their beloved PCs.
If the party CAN get into the castle and get the magic treasure, they're now almost IMMUNE to most of the enemies in the adventure so what's the point?
First, as mentioned, those items won't necessarily be in the castle, and second, they won't be immune, just better equipped. Even with those items Strahd is a formidable enemy with great powers at his disposal. Imagine if he does charm the person holding the Sun Sword, and convinces them to attack their friends, or even just remove themselves (and the sword) from the battle.
Ultimately, though, CoS is a D&D adventure, and we play D&D to feel heroic. If the PCs have gone through the trouble of getting the items and allies they need, they should be able to defeat Strahd because that would be cool!
And remember one last thing... even if they "kill" Strahd, he will be back. Always. Because the Dark Powers will it.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I want to preface this with a few bits of information, just so things will be read in context:
1) I'm over 50 and have played RPGs, including D&D, for nearly 40 years.
2) I've published 2 novels and have written close to 5 million words in my life so I have an idea about pacing, plot and how to get readers (and players) to go where they need to.
3) The Curse of Strahd material, as written, sucks.
I don't want to go over the entirety of the material because I don't think that would benefit anyone, but I would like to point out a few examples of issues with the material as it's written. This comes from playing through it once and reading it over several times.
Strahd himself is portrayed as both the most powerful ruler of his own prison and the most inept villain ever. On the one hand, he is trapped by the mists that surround Borovia so he cannot leave. However, the Vistani who serve him may come and go as they please, usually to lead adventurers into Strahd's realm. So the powerful wizard/vampire can't leave but the obvious ***** ripoffs can just because he allows it? Huh?
The mists that have cut off Borovia from the surrounding lands seem to make no sense at all. They keep others out...unless Strahd's Vistani bring them through...or they come through hunting Strahd (as in the case of Rudolph von Richten, acclaimed vampire hunter)...or they come through seeking their mentor (as in the case of Ezmerelda, von Richten's protoge'). So do these damned mists work or not? If they do, how do all of these random people just stroll in? If they don't, then why does Strahd need to send the Vistani out to lure in the unwary?
The vampire hunter von Richten is also a problem. Borovia is a closed system...cut off from the outside world unless the Vistani bring people in with them. Not a lot of 'new' people around. So von Richten is hunting Strahd but he's not a young man any more and he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew. He understands that Strahd would like nothing more than to capture and torture him so he hides among the people of Borovia, posing as someone else. HUH? Strahd has spies everywhere from the bats and wolves of the wild to the Vistani that have sided with him. Some guy just shows up one day, out of the blue, and nobody wonders if he might not just HAPPEN to be the mysterious vampire hunter their master is seeking?
At least one powerful item that the party should seek (to make their job easier if nothing else) is the skull of a silver dragon slain by Strahd centuries ago. When placed in the ruins of the dragon's castle (he ruled there in Human form) a beacon is lit that will diminish the perpetual cloud cover that keeps the sunlight at bay. This brings hope to the people of Borovia and makes it tougher for vampires to move by day. The only problem is that the skull is INSIDE Strahd's castle! Anyone trying to get it is likely to be caught, tortured, killed and then raised as a vampire thrall of Strahd's. So...if the party isn't strong enough to get into, and out of, the castle alive, then the skull is moot. If they are, then they will likely have killed Strahd, removed the curse on the land and done all of the things that returning the skull would do like restoring hope and light to a downtrodden people.
The adventure is designed for 'a party of 4-6 players level 1-10', mainly because the earliest parts of the adventure are not that hazardous. Our party started at lvl 1 and everything seemed pretty balanced as far as threat level and risk/reward. However, there are several magical items that would benefit the PCs greatly in their quest. However, as with the dragon skull I mentioned, the items are INSIDE the castle. Now Strahd is a powerful wizard, a vampire and has a powerful force of vampire minions. So HOW exactly is the party supposed to get into the castle again?
In short, the adventure attempts to take the horror aspects of a classic Hammer vampire film and transplant them into D&D...which absolutely doesn't work. Creaking floors, rolling thunder and rattling chains all sound scary right up until the ghost emerges from the wall and the entire party disintegrates it in one round. Most of the tropes in horror films are scary because the character in the story are powerless against them. Try doing this to your players and they'll either curbstomp the bad guys or leave citing lack of 'player agency' because you won't let them take the actions they want. You know...actually play the game? Strahd himself (as well as most of his minions) fall flat or steamroll the party utterly. In a party of '4-6 characters, levels 1-10' how tough would it be for Strahd to Charm a quarter of the party and have them turn on their friends? If the party CAN get into the castle and get the magic treasure, they're now almost IMMUNE to most of the enemies in the adventure so what's the point?
To me, the whole things feels like a missed opportunity that is lauded as some great story but is actually a recipe for a good afternoon of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Lot's of people love it -
I'm with you its naff on so many levels -
I just loved old school and once this came out I stopped playing till a year ago (over 20 years) after playing Ravenloft I moved towards Drinking/Nightclubs/Art Galleries/Debachery/High Literature -
At its best old school was a world of one mistake = dead, one bad piece of luck even with a well thought out plans = dead - which was exciting you were making decisions with consequences and it could all go into a frenzy of misadventures twists and directions it could be a mess or a masterpiece -
I personally didn't like how Ravenloft art was so over exposed/photo realistic so controlled, later art replaced the early simplistic art, simplistic Ink art that offered great room for interpretation at the alien nature and cultures, beings you might face who don't think as you do - that they or your own character are alien and you don't know fully how they think but your thinking in a different way to comprehend how they might be and act - Ravenloft art trapped you into banality
Also less is more, sometimes better materials leave more blanks they provide a lack of direction giving freedom of both interpretation and imagination a freedom to fail as a DM, if there is to much if its all very scripted and formulaic choice is a perception it is just a mist - A plot a story is told no matter what you do
Personally I just don't like how scripted and contrived the plot feels it's a place where action has no consequence where your trapped its horrific its horrifically dull, like your an actor on a B movie an Actor trapped to say the same lines
On another level the lack of respect to the masters Mary Shelly/Bran Stoker/Lovecraft for me is the worst crime, Frankenstein talks about how we view beauty as an equivalent of good, Dracula explores sex and desire, Lovecraft was just batshit racist - to me Ravenloft its all tame watered down a mild controlled thrill banality its just not dangerous enough
Perhaps i'm being harsh, those who played it with me loved Ravenloft, i just left and didn't want to be around them any more as I found it and them dull
I think you're just role playing Strahd and the adventure entirely wrong. Strahd commands all of his minions and wants to test the PC's worth, while also tormenting them. Precisely why many of the special items are located in his castle.
Strahd is a very bored narcissist, who would gladly allow low level PC's who are no threat to him to enter his castle and leave without first testing to see if one of them was capable of lifting his curse and allowing him to leave his lands. He might even take the PC's on a tour of his grand accomplishments, showing them around his castle to allow them to bask in his glory and praise his power, before sending them on their way, as new puppets and playthings added to his realm. Eventually he will decide none of them are worthy enough to replace him as master of Barovia, because no one can ever be better than a narcissist. That is when the grand hunt begins, and the characters truly begin to battle for their sanity or lives.
Strahd has time and power on his side, and his possible strategies are numerous. This arrogance is his weakness and his strength. He doesn't want the PC's to die quickly. He wants to savor their every precious cry of agony and anguish, giving them hope just to crush it. He wants to feed on his new play things, and drive them to madness, so that they may remain his play things for a century or longer, while they live out the rest of their short lives servicing his needs.
Even the PC's death is no escape from Strahd dominion. As their soul will be forever bound to Barovia, and reincarnate to experience a tortured hopeless existence repeatedly. The moment they walked through the mists into Barovia they became Strahd's forever.
There are more problems with it than you mention, and I agree: it has some major issues. The dragon skull is unobtainable and makes no sense. When I played it, the DM moved it to Baba Lysaga's hut, but that caused just as many problems.
One ally the PCs can gain is Mordenkainen - an 18th level spellcaster. But they can only do so if they first try to Greater Restoration him (a 5th level spell) while he's attacking them (he always attacks according to the book, and has a host of deadly spells) and THEN determine he has Mindblank on an arcana check, and THEN persuade him to drop it, and THEN cast Greater Restoration AGAIN. This is only possible if they have 2 x 5th level spell slots, and the spell prepared, and do all the guff. If they achieve it, the moment they have him as an ally, they can go straight to Castle Ravenloft and kill Strahd easily - but where's the fun in an overpowered NPC beating the boss to death?
Then there's a Dark Gift that only works on a spellcaster who can cast level 9 spells (it makes you want to be a lich). Mordenkainen is the only NPC in the game who can, and any level 17 PC can solo Strahd. So the only way for this to ever work is for them to get Mordenkainen, then go to the Amber Temple, and maybe he gets it.
Three hags in a coven at Old Bonegrinder are 100% wipe chance for the party if they arrive there below level 5. 5+ they might stand a chance. We reached it at level 3.
Encounters can vary from 5 Vampire Spawn in the coffin maker's to a lone Tiger, or Strahd himself, or a lone skeletal horseman. There's no rhyme or reason to where any of these are placed.
Baby Lysaga has access to Finger of Death and since she's with her hut, she has a CR11 monster on hand to help her out (60 foot reach for crazy damage anyone?), PLUS all the scarecrows. It's an unwinnable encounter unless the PCs are level 8+. But there is literally NOTHING in the game to tell you who she is, or warn you about her insanely powerful spellcasting. She's a mystery until the PCs arrive there. My adventure ended here at level 6 when we went down there expecting a fair encounter and in one round of combat, half the party was down.
The hill encounter with druids and berserkers is pretty hard to survive.
One of the key items in the game (Symbol of Ravenkind) can only be used by a good aligned cleric or paladin. So... what happens when you don't have one?
The other items are randomly scattered around the whole landscape; I actually love the randomness of the Tarokka deck, but sometimes they are both just sitting on the floor somewhere irrelevant, and other times they're in Ravenloft or the Amber Temple.
In the Amber Temple, you can gain access to every Wizard spell in the PHB. Seems a bit lazy and takes away spell discovery later on.
Yeah, a lot of the material in Curse of Strahd is not very well written RAW, (I’m looking at you, tiger trained to commit genocide). Luckily, a lot of plot holes, stupid stuff, and other problems with the module can be solved with a little revision and help. I would suggest checking out the Curse of Strahd subreddit, especially the guides made by DragnaCarta, MandyMod, and Lunch Break Heroes. The module might not be very well designed, but to be fair, I personally think it’s way better than a lot of other modules I have read.
Also, the lore of Ravenloft and how the domains of dread work partially explain a lot about some of your doubts. Especially with Van Ricten’s Guide, which explains mist talismans (a way for people to travel to a domain, like Barovia, without a problem), or the Dark Powers and how the Domains are a curse and prison for these Darklords, among other things.
so yeah, Curse of Strahd does have many flaws, but given a little work, they are easily solved or explained. I personally would suggest not running CoS without a few revisions first. I might be a bit biased tho, I love Ravenloft/CoS, and am a regular of the subreddit and discord server.
One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
I do like the way Strahd makes an appearance, then disappears without killing the party. I always try to have my villains make multiple appearances before the final conflict, to show how dangerous they are.
As for snooping around the castle before facing Strahd directly, the encounters seem to be designed almost at random. I get this approach; "You find what you find." And yet the balance is so wildly off that we get the following:
K7 - 4 x red dragon wyrmlings. Completely undetectable, if the PCs try to leave they will be attacked by them - AC17, 75 hit points each, and each one deals 24 (7d6) fire damage as a breath weapon. Assuming that any individual PC will likely fail 2 of 4 saving throws, that's a nifty 72 points of fire damage in one turn, and if the PCs are grouped up together then multiple PCs will be hit. The adventure ends here for certain for any adventure below level 8.
K35 - 4 x swarm of rats bother the players. A bit of a contrast to our dragon wymrlings.
One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
I do like the way Strahd makes an appearance, then disappears without killing the party. I always try to have my villains make multiple appearances before the final conflict, to show how dangerous they are.
As for snooping around the castle before facing Strahd directly, the encounters seem to be designed almost at random. I get this approach; "You find what you find." And yet the balance is so wildly off that we get the following:
K7 - 4 x red dragon wyrmlings. Completely undetectable, if the PCs try to leave they will be attacked by them - AC17, 75 hit points each, and each one deals 24 (7d6) fire damage as a breath weapon. Assuming that any individual PC will likely fail 2 of 4 saving throws, that's a nifty 72 points of fire damage in one turn, and if the PCs are grouped up together then multiple PCs will be hit. The adventure ends here for certain for any adventure below level 8.
K35 - 4 x swarm of rats bother the players. A bit of a contrast to our dragon wymrlings.
K78 - 2 x CR16 iron golems instantly wipe the party with 45 (10d8) damage breath weapons if they attack anything.
In Crypt 15, a Very Rare staff of power is up for grabs if it doesn't kill the PC grabbing it.
In Crypt 29, a Legendary luck blade is up for grabs with 1 wish remaining
The thing about the Red Dragon Wyrmlings and the Iron Golems is that they both serve the same purpose which merits their difficulty. They both are set to prevent the escape of adventurers from the castle (either through the front door in the dragons' case or through the teleportation device in K78). The castle wouldnt be much of a threat to explore if you could easily explore a few rooms and then leave to rest before Strahd awakens (rinse and repeat).
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One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
I do like the way Strahd makes an appearance, then disappears without killing the party. I always try to have my villains make multiple appearances before the final conflict, to show how dangerous they are.
As for snooping around the castle before facing Strahd directly, the encounters seem to be designed almost at random. I get this approach; "You find what you find." And yet the balance is so wildly off that we get the following:
K7 - 4 x red dragon wyrmlings. Completely undetectable, if the PCs try to leave they will be attacked by them - AC17, 75 hit points each, and each one deals 24 (7d6) fire damage as a breath weapon. Assuming that any individual PC will likely fail 2 of 4 saving throws, that's a nifty 72 points of fire damage in one turn, and if the PCs are grouped up together then multiple PCs will be hit. The adventure ends here for certain for any adventure below level 8.
K35 - 4 x swarm of rats bother the players. A bit of a contrast to our dragon wymrlings.
K78 - 2 x CR16 iron golems instantly wipe the party with 45 (10d8) damage breath weapons if they attack anything.
In Crypt 15, a Very Rare staff of power is up for grabs if it doesn't kill the PC grabbing it.
In Crypt 29, a Legendary luck blade is up for grabs with 1 wish remaining
The thing about the Red Dragon Wyrmlings and the Iron Golems is that they both serve the same purpose which merits their difficulty. They both are set to prevent the escape of adventurers from the castle (either through the front door in the dragons' case or through the teleportation device in K78). The castle wouldnt be much of a threat to explore if you could easily explore a few rooms and then leave to rest before Strahd awakens (rinse and repeat).
But the point is that in order to make use of the dragon skull, the PCs need to go to Castle Ravenloft well before there's any possibility of them being able to tackle these monsters. They need to do exactly what you describe - explore a few rooms, then leave to rest/take their loot out - more than once to access this part of the game.
By the time the PCs are heading to face Strahd, if they've been to the Amber Temple we can assume that they are level 8-10 and aside from those two encounters and Strahd himself, everything else in Castle Ravenloft is something I wouldn't bother rolling initiative for (3 zombies? A lone Strahd zombie? One Vampire Spawn? A Rug of Smothering? A lone Shadow Demon? I'd change the encounter to be more challenging or just handwave it with "you smash through 10 skeletons easily" rather than spend 25 minutes auto attacking them). Although Castle Ravenloft is awesome in terms of being a huge, detailed and explorable space, I think that the balancing is right out of whack. I wouldn't bother with rolling combat for a lone CR4 monster against a party - it would feel like a waste of time. The castle seems principally designed for a level 5 party to explore, except for those crazy high CR16 Iron Golems and the dragonlings.
I wouldn't be too bothered by it except for the other massively out of line encounters like the hag coven, Baba Lysaga etc.
I almost feel like Curse of Strahd is set up as an adventure where the players ought to be told at the beginning "there is very little chance of you making it through this adventure alive. The challenge isn't to win, but to see how far you can get."
One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
I do like the way Strahd makes an appearance, then disappears without killing the party. I always try to have my villains make multiple appearances before the final conflict, to show how dangerous they are.
As for snooping around the castle before facing Strahd directly, the encounters seem to be designed almost at random. I get this approach; "You find what you find." And yet the balance is so wildly off that we get the following:
K7 - 4 x red dragon wyrmlings. Completely undetectable, if the PCs try to leave they will be attacked by them - AC17, 75 hit points each, and each one deals 24 (7d6) fire damage as a breath weapon. Assuming that any individual PC will likely fail 2 of 4 saving throws, that's a nifty 72 points of fire damage in one turn, and if the PCs are grouped up together then multiple PCs will be hit. The adventure ends here for certain for any adventure below level 8.
K35 - 4 x swarm of rats bother the players. A bit of a contrast to our dragon wymrlings.
K78 - 2 x CR16 iron golems instantly wipe the party with 45 (10d8) damage breath weapons if they attack anything.
In Crypt 15, a Very Rare staff of power is up for grabs if it doesn't kill the PC grabbing it.
In Crypt 29, a Legendary luck blade is up for grabs with 1 wish remaining
The thing about the Red Dragon Wyrmlings and the Iron Golems is that they both serve the same purpose which merits their difficulty. They both are set to prevent the escape of adventurers from the castle (either through the front door in the dragons' case or through the teleportation device in K78). The castle wouldnt be much of a threat to explore if you could easily explore a few rooms and then leave to rest before Strahd awakens (rinse and repeat).
But the point is that in order to make use of the dragon skull, the PCs need to go to Castle Ravenloft well before there's any possibility of them being able to tackle these monsters. They need to do exactly what you describe - explore a few rooms, then leave to rest/take their loot out - more than once to access this part of the game.
By the time the PCs are heading to face Strahd, if they've been to the Amber Temple we can assume that they are level 8-10 and aside from those two encounters and Strahd himself, everything else in Castle Ravenloft is something I wouldn't bother rolling initiative for (3 zombies? A lone Strahd zombie? One Vampire Spawn? A Rug of Smothering? A lone Shadow Demon? I'd change the encounter to be more challenging or just handwave it with "you smash through 10 skeletons easily" rather than spend 25 minutes auto attacking them). Although Castle Ravenloft is awesome in terms of being a huge, detailed and explorable space, I think that the balancing is right out of whack. I wouldn't bother with rolling combat for a lone CR4 monster against a party - it would feel like a waste of time. The castle seems principally designed for a level 5 party to explore, except for those crazy high CR16 Iron Golems and the dragonlings.
I wouldn't be too bothered by it except for the other massively out of line encounters like the hag coven, Baba Lysaga etc.
I almost feel like Curse of Strahd is set up as an adventure where the players ought to be told at the beginning "there is very little chance of you making it through this adventure alive. The challenge isn't to win, but to see how far you can get."
I agree with you and I ranted about pretty much the same stuff in a post I made a couple of years back. We went through CoS starting at level 1 and there were several parts we enjoyed a lot (creepy death house in the beginning was CREEPY for lvl 1-2 characters). But so many parts of the adventure go against many of the reasons we play D&D for. Exploration is very limited because of the mists. Interaction with the locals is limited because there is only one town worth the name and one other tiny village. The scale of the place is completely ridiculous (the town surrounded by the wall reportedly has about 24 guards, half of which are on duty at a time) and half of THOSE (so about 6 people) patrol the walls. Measure out the length of the wall around the town and you'll see that it's close to a MILE long! That's about 3 football fields PER GUARD! How on earth can they expect to keep anything out with numbers like that?
Most of the enemies we fought had little if any treasure. There were few shops to buy from and very little gold to buy stuff with. We had to collect pretty much every cent we had in order to buy my character (the party tank) a suit of Plate armor. In frustration, I tossed out the idea of killing EVERYONE just to deny the Vampires a food source. Then I was reminded that the Vistani could bring people in and random travelers could be allowed in as well (which is how we got there). It was very inconsistent to say the least.
The ruins of Arkenvostholt were the same way. We were told flat-out that the encounter in the swamp was dangerous and we'd better wait before going there (the DM was not fond of TPKs and magic in the area was so messed up that we didn't want to risk being Revived). By the time we went there we were 8th level and the place was a cakewalk. We were frustrated by the fact that Strahd never came out of his castle to fight us directly and every time we talked about going to fight him at home we kept hearing about the Vampire and Werewolf minions he had there. We formulated a plan to call him out and try to get him to send ALL of his minions to attack us at the lake where we could avoid being surrounded. We figured that if we insulted him enough he'd send everyone out to get us.
The idea that you're supposed to be creeping into and out of the castle prior to the big showdown is nuts. Strahd has been in charge of the place for 7 centuries...if there's a secret way in he's likely found it. He and the Vampires could move about by day because the sun was obscured permanently by clouds. In the end, we were level 9 (my Cleric had me some spells THEN baby!) when we went in. We'd managed to figure out how to clear the skies (I forget how) so the Vampires had to hide by day. We wound up in Strahd's crypt around about noon and managed to keep his reinforcements out with a well-placed Web Spell. We defeated him but the whole ordeal had taken so long that we were just bored and wanted to leave the place. What's worse, the DM let it slip that the next realm over (where we'd likely wound up when we left) was larger but they might have a Vampire noble ruling that as well! We determined that if such was the case, we'd stomp into their lair boldly and take them out without buildup or fanfare.
"You're just going to go and challenge a Vampire noble in their home?"
"We just defeated the lord of a whole part of the Shadowfell! How much WORSE could this one be? Better to rush in and get her now than let her know we're in town and give her time to gather her forces against us!"
There are story arcs that just don't work well in D&D and 'the BBEG bunkers down in their nigh-impenetrable fortress to wait for you' is one of them.
The idea that you're supposed to be creeping into and out of the castle prior to the big showdown is nuts. Strahd has been in charge of the place for 7 centuries...if there's a secret way in he's likely found it. He and the Vampires could move about by day because the sun was obscured permanently by clouds. In the end, we were level 9 (my Cleric had me some spells THEN baby!) when we went in. We'd managed to figure out how to clear the skies (I forget how) so the Vampires had to hide by day. We wound up in Strahd's crypt around about noon and managed to keep his reinforcements out with a well-placed Web Spell. We defeated him but the whole ordeal had taken so long that we were just bored and wanted to leave the place. What's worse, the DM let it slip that the next realm over (where we'd likely wound up when we left) was larger but they might have a Vampire noble ruling that as well! We determined that if such was the case, we'd stomp into their lair boldly and take them out without buildup or fanfare.
"You're just going to go and challenge a Vampire noble in their home?"
"We just defeated the lord of a whole part of the Shadowfell! How much WORSE could this one be? Better to rush in and get her now than let her know we're in town and give her time to gather her forces against us!"
There are story arcs that just don't work well in D&D and 'the BBEG bunkers down in their nigh-impenetrable fortress to wait for you' is one of them.
The difference here is that Strahd's goal isn't to defeat the party. (unless they do something silly, like reunite Sergei and Tatyana) He's looking for someone interesting enough to either take his place or join him. The dragon skull quest won't be completed by 90% of parties, but a few will find themselves invited into the castle for dinner and might happen to find it. The stairs immediately opposite the dining hall entrance go down to the level with the skull and the room containing it is the central room of that level.
The idea that you're supposed to be creeping into and out of the castle prior to the big showdown is nuts. Strahd has been in charge of the place for 7 centuries...if there's a secret way in he's likely found it. He and the Vampires could move about by day because the sun was obscured permanently by clouds. In the end, we were level 9 (my Cleric had me some spells THEN baby!) when we went in. We'd managed to figure out how to clear the skies (I forget how) so the Vampires had to hide by day. We wound up in Strahd's crypt around about noon and managed to keep his reinforcements out with a well-placed Web Spell. We defeated him but the whole ordeal had taken so long that we were just bored and wanted to leave the place. What's worse, the DM let it slip that the next realm over (where we'd likely wound up when we left) was larger but they might have a Vampire noble ruling that as well! We determined that if such was the case, we'd stomp into their lair boldly and take them out without buildup or fanfare.
"You're just going to go and challenge a Vampire noble in their home?"
"We just defeated the lord of a whole part of the Shadowfell! How much WORSE could this one be? Better to rush in and get her now than let her know we're in town and give her time to gather her forces against us!"
There are story arcs that just don't work well in D&D and 'the BBEG bunkers down in their nigh-impenetrable fortress to wait for you' is one of them.
The difference here is that Strahd's goal isn't to defeat the party. (unless they do something silly, like reunite Sergei and Tatyana) He's looking for someone interesting enough to either take his place or join him. The dragon skull quest won't be completed by 90% of parties, but a few will find themselves invited into the castle for dinner and might happen to find it. The stairs immediately opposite the dining hall entrance go down to the level with the skull and the room containing it is the central room of that level.
The issue with Strahd's wishes, having someone take his place or join him (my character was willing to take his place because I was considering making a new character) is that it winds up breaking the party. Many groups start CoS at low levels and it's built specifically for that. So you have a party that's stayed together through some really crazy shit for 8 levels or more and the campaign will continue but now one player needs to drop or make a new character? Pretty bogus IMHO.
Then there's the fact that
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
The idea that you're supposed to be creeping into and out of the castle prior to the big showdown is nuts. Strahd has been in charge of the place for 7 centuries...if there's a secret way in he's likely found it. He and the Vampires could move about by day because the sun was obscured permanently by clouds. In the end, we were level 9 (my Cleric had me some spells THEN baby!) when we went in. We'd managed to figure out how to clear the skies (I forget how) so the Vampires had to hide by day. We wound up in Strahd's crypt around about noon and managed to keep his reinforcements out with a well-placed Web Spell. We defeated him but the whole ordeal had taken so long that we were just bored and wanted to leave the place. What's worse, the DM let it slip that the next realm over (where we'd likely wound up when we left) was larger but they might have a Vampire noble ruling that as well! We determined that if such was the case, we'd stomp into their lair boldly and take them out without buildup or fanfare.
"You're just going to go and challenge a Vampire noble in their home?"
"We just defeated the lord of a whole part of the Shadowfell! How much WORSE could this one be? Better to rush in and get her now than let her know we're in town and give her time to gather her forces against us!"
There are story arcs that just don't work well in D&D and 'the BBEG bunkers down in their nigh-impenetrable fortress to wait for you' is one of them.
The difference here is that Strahd's goal isn't to defeat the party. (unless they do something silly, like reunite Sergei and Tatyana) He's looking for someone interesting enough to either take his place or join him. The dragon skull quest won't be completed by 90% of parties, but a few will find themselves invited into the castle for dinner and might happen to find it. The stairs immediately opposite the dining hall entrance go down to the level with the skull and the room containing it is the central room of that level.
The issue with Strahd's wishes, having someone take his place or join him (my character was willing to take his place because I was considering making a new character) is that it winds up breaking the party. Many groups start CoS at low levels and it's built specifically for that. So you have a party that's stayed together through some really crazy shit for 8 levels or more and the campaign will continue but now one player needs to drop or make a new character? Pretty bogus IMHO.
Then there's the fact that
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
Sounds like the setup of a fun follow-up adventure
"Knowing that the dark powers will Strahd and the other dark lords to revive and continue to torment and be tormented, the party sets out on their most dangerous quest yet. The quest to destroy the dark powers themselves"
Not to mention, I doubt it is intended that the party would be tasked to "redo" the module after a few weeks/months of freedom. If the party was just playing the module, then Strahd's revival isnt an issue since the campaign is done after he is killed. If the party goes on to another module after CoS, chances are they are far enough away that word of his revival does not reach them (unless the DM specifically wills it).
His revival is just flavorful and tied to the lore and a way to explain how a single vampire can continue to rule over part of the Shadowfell in a universe containing beings far more powerful than him. Its a single vampire. If there was nothing "keeping him alive" a group of level 1-10 adventurers might question how it is that no one else has managed to take care of him yet.
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The difference here is that Strahd's goal isn't to defeat the party. (unless they do something silly, like reunite Sergei and Tatyana) He's looking for someone interesting enough to either take his place or join him.
THIS. Strahd is a prisoner. Besides Ireena, his #1 goal is to trick someone else into becoming the new Dark Lord. Anyone else at least provides him some fleeting excitement. There's no point in immediately slaughtering the only entertainment you've had in weeks, months or even years.
The issue with Strahd's wishes, having someone take his place or join him (my character was willing to take his place because I was considering making a new character) is that it winds up breaking the party.
It doesn't have to? There's several people in Barovia with potential to take his place: Lady Fiona, Kasimir's sister, and maybe even the abbot.
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Like Kaboom said, this is a great setup for a follow-up adventure. Think about it - Strahd will know now that not even being killed will free him, and the players have an incentive to try to find a permanent solution. Any party members that stayed behind to help rebuild (like the bard in one of my groups did) will need a way out. Any unresolved plot threads can be resolved.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
I don't know about your group but the driving motivation in both of my games was escape. Helping Ireena is a nice side effect, but ultimately no one in the party wanted to be trapped in a dark hell-plane and cut off from friends and family forever.
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
If someone does stay behind as Strahd's successor, the vampire won't reform, the curse will be bound to the PC.
Keep in mind that a PC becoming Strahd's successor is one of Strahd's victory conditions, not the PCs'. It doesn't matter whether the PCs are ever going to stay behind as a consort/successor, all that matters is that Strahd is considering them as candidates, and as such he doesn't necessarily want to kill them.
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
If someone does stay behind as Strahd's successor, the vampire won't reform, the curse will be bound to the PC.
Keep in mind that a PC becoming Strahd's successor is one of Strahd's victory conditions, not the PCs'. It doesn't matter whether the PCs are ever going to stay behind as a consort/successor, all that matters is that Strahd is considering them as candidates, and as such he doesn't necessarily want to kill them.
As much as I understand that not all endings can be happy ones, I still feel that the ending, as designed, is a bad one. Unless someone already wants a new character or is already planning on leaving the game, the options are to leave someone behind and they now need a new character, or the whole party leaves and Strahd returns to inflict more misery.
Obviously, none of the NPCs that are already there are suited to the task or they would already have maneuvered for them to take over.
Our version was more elegant if a bit sinister. We arranged for Arkenvost to oversee the people after Strahd was killed, but he did NOT assume the curse. This meant that Strahd would return and reform in his crypt at some point. We used spells to shape the crypt so that the lid wouldn't open and that the inside was lined with spikes that were blessed. This meant that after days, weeks, or months Strahd would reform inside his sarcophagus and immediately take damage from the blessed spikes. He couldn't escape so he would die and the process would repeat itself.
Yes, we were horribly cruel in doing this but after chasing Irena for 7 centuries plus inflicting untold misery on the villagers we felt he deserved it.
I also wound up becoming a Paladin of Arkenvost which meshed well with my War Cleric origins.
As much as I understand that not all endings can be happy ones, I still feel that the ending, as designed, is a bad one. Unless someone already wants a new character or is already planning on leaving the game, the options are to leave someone behind and they now need a new character, or the whole party leaves and Strahd returns to inflict more misery.
Obviously, none of the NPCs that are already there are suited to the task or they would already have maneuvered for them to take over.
The ending isn't great for the adventuring party that is a cohesive fighting unit. It's a much better ending for a party that's a group of backstabbers out for their own gain. The successor finds out too late that they're the one that got the short end of the stick.
Actually, there is one NPC that's suited. If she can be convinced that it's the only way to free Strahd, she might even do it.
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I want to preface this with a few bits of information, just so things will be read in context:
1) I'm over 50 and have played RPGs, including D&D, for nearly 40 years.
2) I've published 2 novels and have written close to 5 million words in my life so I have an idea about pacing, plot and how to get readers (and players) to go where they need to.
3) The Curse of Strahd material, as written, sucks.
I don't want to go over the entirety of the material because I don't think that would benefit anyone, but I would like to point out a few examples of issues with the material as it's written. This comes from playing through it once and reading it over several times.
Strahd himself is portrayed as both the most powerful ruler of his own prison and the most inept villain ever. On the one hand, he is trapped by the mists that surround Borovia so he cannot leave. However, the Vistani who serve him may come and go as they please, usually to lead adventurers into Strahd's realm. So the powerful wizard/vampire can't leave but the obvious ***** ripoffs can just because he allows it? Huh?
The mists that have cut off Borovia from the surrounding lands seem to make no sense at all. They keep others out...unless Strahd's Vistani bring them through...or they come through hunting Strahd (as in the case of Rudolph von Richten, acclaimed vampire hunter)...or they come through seeking their mentor (as in the case of Ezmerelda, von Richten's protoge'). So do these damned mists work or not? If they do, how do all of these random people just stroll in? If they don't, then why does Strahd need to send the Vistani out to lure in the unwary?
The vampire hunter von Richten is also a problem. Borovia is a closed system...cut off from the outside world unless the Vistani bring people in with them. Not a lot of 'new' people around. So von Richten is hunting Strahd but he's not a young man any more and he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew. He understands that Strahd would like nothing more than to capture and torture him so he hides among the people of Borovia, posing as someone else. HUH? Strahd has spies everywhere from the bats and wolves of the wild to the Vistani that have sided with him. Some guy just shows up one day, out of the blue, and nobody wonders if he might not just HAPPEN to be the mysterious vampire hunter their master is seeking?
At least one powerful item that the party should seek (to make their job easier if nothing else) is the skull of a silver dragon slain by Strahd centuries ago. When placed in the ruins of the dragon's castle (he ruled there in Human form) a beacon is lit that will diminish the perpetual cloud cover that keeps the sunlight at bay. This brings hope to the people of Borovia and makes it tougher for vampires to move by day. The only problem is that the skull is INSIDE Strahd's castle! Anyone trying to get it is likely to be caught, tortured, killed and then raised as a vampire thrall of Strahd's. So...if the party isn't strong enough to get into, and out of, the castle alive, then the skull is moot. If they are, then they will likely have killed Strahd, removed the curse on the land and done all of the things that returning the skull would do like restoring hope and light to a downtrodden people.
The adventure is designed for 'a party of 4-6 players level 1-10', mainly because the earliest parts of the adventure are not that hazardous. Our party started at lvl 1 and everything seemed pretty balanced as far as threat level and risk/reward. However, there are several magical items that would benefit the PCs greatly in their quest. However, as with the dragon skull I mentioned, the items are INSIDE the castle. Now Strahd is a powerful wizard, a vampire and has a powerful force of vampire minions. So HOW exactly is the party supposed to get into the castle again?
In short, the adventure attempts to take the horror aspects of a classic Hammer vampire film and transplant them into D&D...which absolutely doesn't work. Creaking floors, rolling thunder and rattling chains all sound scary right up until the ghost emerges from the wall and the entire party disintegrates it in one round. Most of the tropes in horror films are scary because the character in the story are powerless against them. Try doing this to your players and they'll either curbstomp the bad guys or leave citing lack of 'player agency' because you won't let them take the actions they want. You know...actually play the game? Strahd himself (as well as most of his minions) fall flat or steamroll the party utterly. In a party of '4-6 characters, levels 1-10' how tough would it be for Strahd to Charm a quarter of the party and have them turn on their friends? If the party CAN get into the castle and get the magic treasure, they're now almost IMMUNE to most of the enemies in the adventure so what's the point?
To me, the whole things feels like a missed opportunity that is lauded as some great story but is actually a recipe for a good afternoon of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
As far as I remember Strahd is cursed to stay in his lands, a curse that the Vistani does not have. Much like the Classic Dracula he has a weakness that bind him to his land (dracula has to rest in ground from his own land). I dont really see this as bad writing.
Dungeons and Dragons are not really ment for feeling powerless, and although the Ravenloft theme is meant to have a sort of horror feel I would still say it should not be mistaken for something like call of cthulhu, but is more on the light side of horror.
Im sure that in pretty much any campaign book you can find some inconsistency or things where you think "who dont they just do this". I imagine that writing an interactive game campaign that is not railroading the game but still gives good material to work with is a lot different from writing a "Novel" where you can control everything in the writing process.
To bad you had a bad time with the campaign. I havent played it myself, only read it, but want to play it some day.
With regard to the Vistani and the curse Strahd has: "During one of Strahd’s military campaigns, years before he became a vampire, a group of Vistani rescued him after he was wounded in battle. These Vistani not only nursed Strahd back to health but also delivered him safely home. As a reward for their generosity, Strahd declared that all Vistani had the right to come and go from his land as they please, and this privilege extends to the present day. Thus, Vistani can travel freely through the fog that surrounds Barovia, without fear of harm or entrapment."
So, as I said, even though he himself is trapped, the Vistani can come and go as they please because HE wills it.
As for the rest, I think the main reason I struggled is that my time there was ill-spent. The DM had a theme in mind but I'm not sure if he had the experience to portray it well. On the one hand, he didn't want us to just march up to the castle, attack Strahd and die. To this end he kept warning us that Strahd had all sorts of minions to command. On the other hand, we followed a 'prophecy' which I think was his way of presenting the Vistani fortune teller's story and all of the Tarot cards but essentially we felt like we were dragged around through the quest line.
Many players in our group were new to gaming, I was one of the veterans but I was very rusty (I hadn't played since 3.5 started) and then we had two more veteran D&D players for a total party of 8. Big group that was sometimes short on ideas as to what to do.
I suspect that it was a combination of the mismatched team, an inexperienced DM who altered the material and the fact that Real Life got in the way and forced us to have gaps between games so the whole thing felt like it took longer than it should. Still, having read over the material again recently, I still feel that too much emphasis is placed on obtaining magic items but then that might just be my style.
Before I answer further, I am wondering if this is your first experience with Ravenloft and Strahd? I understand you've been playing about 40 years (7 more than I), but CoS is by far no where near the beginning of the story. Are you familiar with the original Ravenloft module? There is a great deal of history here that would answer many of your concerns.
That said I will address your points, but before I do there is one very important thing to cover that actually addresses much of this... The Dark Powers.
The Dark Powers (TDP from here on in) have always been a major part of the story of Strahd and Ravenloft. Originally they were always referred to rather vaguely, but in CoS they were made more concrete with the aspects trapped in the Amber Temple. Regardless, it is TDP that are responsible for what might appear on the surface as inconsistencies. TDP are pure evil, more evil, and more powerful, than Strahd. Strahd may appear to be the master of his realm, but only as long as TDP let him. They are the true power.
Strahd made his pact with TDP, and their reward to him (Vampirism and Immortality) were merely a trick. Strahd is their prisoner in Barovia, and they imprisoned him because they are evil and enjoy it (and it could be argued they derive their own energy from the evil that happens because of Strahd). The mists keep Strahd from leaving because TDP control the mists, not Strahd.
In the 2nd Edition Ravenloft setting it was established that there were other dark realms beyond Barovia, each with it's own "dark lord", and each seduced and trapped by TDP. Strahd is just one of their play things. Remember this when considering Strahd and Barovia.
As was pointed out Darkaiser, in this version of the Strahd story, Strahd was aided by the Vistani on the field of battle before he ever became a vampire, and before he became trapped in Barovia. For their service he decreed that they would always be free to come and go from his lands. Since this happened before his "fall" it was a promise he didn't know would matter greatly once the mists came. The dark powers bound him to that promise after his fall. It's not so much that the evil vampire lord lets them come and go, so much as he doesn't have a choice but to allow it.
No, random people do not stroll in and out, the mists work just as they should. Remember, they are controlled by TDP, not Strahd. If TDP don't want someone in Barovia, they won't get in, because when you are outside Barovia you don't find the mists, they find you. Strahd believes that if he can find someone to take his place, he might be able to leave, so he employs the Vistani to look for people to bring back in to Barovia (since they alone can do that). As CoS states, he toys with these people to test them, but inevitably finds them unworthy. Since he cannot leave Strahd is also bored, and has the Vistani bring him people so he can "play with his food." Finally, since Barovians without souls can't produce offspring with souls, and since Strahd can't get nourishment from non-soul people, he also needs to maintain the "genepool" in Barovia, another reason to have the Vistani bring people in.
Occasionally TDP use the mists themselves to bring people to Barovia. Sometimes they do it because they want to punish Strahd, and other times it is for their own (and the DM's by extension) inscrutable reasons. (I decided in my CoS campaign that the PCs were stuck in a time loop, being brought to Barovia multiple times as part of a punishment for Strahd such that there were other versions of the PCs already in Barovia that they could encounter).
As for Von Richten, his protege is a Vistani, and he used her to get himself in to Barovia. VanRichten's son was stolen by Barovian Vistani from Esmerelda's clan and died because of a vampire. Van Richten used Esmerelda to get in to Barovia to find those Vistani and get revenge, and then to kill Strahd. It is interesting to note the text says Van Richten is from Darkon, which is one of the dark realms from the 2e D&D Ravenloft setting with it's own mists and dark lord.
On the contrary, there are new people who come to Barovia, either with the Vistani for Strahd, or because TDP have brought them there. The march of ghosts that happens every night at midnight alone is just all the adventurers who have come before and failed. There's no reason Van Richten can't hide from Strahd. Strahd is not all-knowing. He has scrying magic, and has spies, but that doesn't mean he knows everything happening always. He spies can be wrong, or misled, and Van Richten is wearing a magical ring of mind shielding and is usig a hat of disguise. If he entered Barovia that way, and is good at keeping up his persona of Rictavio, there is no reason for Strahd's spies to suspect him of being anything else, and no way for Strahd to read his thoughts to see who he really is. Strahd's spies don't have any reason to assume that every new person who shows up might be a specific vampire hunter they don't know about. If you were Strahd would you want your spies to know there is someone you are afraid of? And there is nothing that indicates Strahd has met Van Richten before, knows what he looks like, or even that he exists.
Depending on the level of the party, it is entirely possible the PCs might find they are not a match for Strahd and might flee before fighting him. The book also suggests that Strahd is toying with them as a game. He invites the PCs to his castle, and perhaps will even let them leave if it strikes his fancy, so that he just kill them later, after they think they've got away. It is entirely plausible for the PCs to get in to the castle and get out with the skull before facing Strahd in battle.
But let's assume they don't go in to the castle before fighting, and killing, Strahd. We recall that in Argynvostholt there are revenants who cannot rest. The becon being lit is what releases them. Killing Strahd won't release them, they will remain. The revenants also don't want Strahd killed because they believe Barovia is his prison, and his death would free him from his punishment for doing evil. Thus if the revenants become aware of the PCs's plans, they will actively try to stop them. Killing the revenants won't work, they just keep coming back. The only way to stop them from interfering with the PCs' plan to kill strahd, is to set them free. The only way the PCs know about the dragonskull is by going to Argynvosholt and encountering the Revenants. It is also important to note that if the beacon is lit, Sir Godfrey does not disappear as the others do, and can be convinced to help fight Strahd, thus the PCs (if they feel they alone are not powerful enough to stop Strahd) have a reason to retrieve the skull to get another ally on top of eliminating Vladimir Horngaard and the other revenants who will try to stop the PCs.
In my game when the PCs made it finally down to Stahd's tomb in the crypts, Vladimir showed up to stop them because they hadn't lit the beacon.
Finally, even if they don't want to get Sir Godfrey on their side, even if they think they can take the revanants, it is possible a Good-aligned party will want to return the skull and light the beacon after they kill Strahd because it is the right thing to do! Even if Stahd dies, the Revenants will not. The PCs can put them to rest by returning the skull.
I'm not sure which items you are referring to beyond the Sun Sword, Tome of Ravenloft, Holy symbol of Ravnkind, and so on, but these won't necessarily be in the castle, it will depend on the Tarokka reading. It is entirely probable that all or most of the items needed will be outside of the castle. Let us say they do end up inside, the PCs might want to try to get in, get them, get out, and then level up some more before attacking Strahd. The DM doesn't have to leave it random, but can just decide they are all outside the castle, and lie to the PCs during the Tarokka reading. Unless the PCs have the book, they won't know what the cards mean.
Curse of Stahd (which is just a new version of the original Ravenloft adventure) is not based on Hammer films or horror movie tropes. It was created by the original authors as a Gothic story like Dracula, and similar ilk. Novels, not movies. The tropes of gothic literature are very specific, and not the same as Hammer-style horror films. Gothic horror is not about scares, or violence, but about atmosphere and dread.
Yep, that's the point. Players should be afraid that this will happen to their beloved PCs.
First, as mentioned, those items won't necessarily be in the castle, and second, they won't be immune, just better equipped. Even with those items Strahd is a formidable enemy with great powers at his disposal. Imagine if he does charm the person holding the Sun Sword, and convinces them to attack their friends, or even just remove themselves (and the sword) from the battle.
Ultimately, though, CoS is a D&D adventure, and we play D&D to feel heroic. If the PCs have gone through the trouble of getting the items and allies they need, they should be able to defeat Strahd because that would be cool!
And remember one last thing... even if they "kill" Strahd, he will be back. Always. Because the Dark Powers will it.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Lot's of people love it -
I'm with you its naff on so many levels -
I just loved old school and once this came out I stopped playing till a year ago (over 20 years) after playing Ravenloft I moved towards Drinking/Nightclubs/Art Galleries/Debachery/High Literature -
At its best old school was a world of one mistake = dead, one bad piece of luck even with a well thought out plans = dead - which was exciting you were making decisions with consequences and it could all go into a frenzy of misadventures twists and directions it could be a mess or a masterpiece -
I personally didn't like how Ravenloft art was so over exposed/photo realistic so controlled, later art replaced the early simplistic art, simplistic Ink art that offered great room for interpretation at the alien nature and cultures, beings you might face who don't think as you do - that they or your own character are alien and you don't know fully how they think but your thinking in a different way to comprehend how they might be and act - Ravenloft art trapped you into banality
Also less is more, sometimes better materials leave more blanks they provide a lack of direction giving freedom of both interpretation and imagination a freedom to fail as a DM, if there is to much if its all very scripted and formulaic choice is a perception it is just a mist - A plot a story is told no matter what you do
Personally I just don't like how scripted and contrived the plot feels it's a place where action has no consequence where your trapped its horrific its horrifically dull, like your an actor on a B movie an Actor trapped to say the same lines
On another level the lack of respect to the masters Mary Shelly/Bran Stoker/Lovecraft for me is the worst crime, Frankenstein talks about how we view beauty as an equivalent of good, Dracula explores sex and desire, Lovecraft was just batshit racist - to me Ravenloft its all tame watered down a mild controlled thrill banality its just not dangerous enough
Perhaps i'm being harsh, those who played it with me loved Ravenloft, i just left and didn't want to be around them any more as I found it and them dull
I think you're just role playing Strahd and the adventure entirely wrong. Strahd commands all of his minions and wants to test the PC's worth, while also tormenting them. Precisely why many of the special items are located in his castle.
Strahd is a very bored narcissist, who would gladly allow low level PC's who are no threat to him to enter his castle and leave without first testing to see if one of them was capable of lifting his curse and allowing him to leave his lands. He might even take the PC's on a tour of his grand accomplishments, showing them around his castle to allow them to bask in his glory and praise his power, before sending them on their way, as new puppets and playthings added to his realm. Eventually he will decide none of them are worthy enough to replace him as master of Barovia, because no one can ever be better than a narcissist. That is when the grand hunt begins, and the characters truly begin to battle for their sanity or lives.
Strahd has time and power on his side, and his possible strategies are numerous. This arrogance is his weakness and his strength. He doesn't want the PC's to die quickly. He wants to savor their every precious cry of agony and anguish, giving them hope just to crush it. He wants to feed on his new play things, and drive them to madness, so that they may remain his play things for a century or longer, while they live out the rest of their short lives servicing his needs.
Even the PC's death is no escape from Strahd dominion. As their soul will be forever bound to Barovia, and reincarnate to experience a tortured hopeless existence repeatedly. The moment they walked through the mists into Barovia they became Strahd's forever.
There are more problems with it than you mention, and I agree: it has some major issues. The dragon skull is unobtainable and makes no sense. When I played it, the DM moved it to Baba Lysaga's hut, but that caused just as many problems.
So yeah, it's not well designed as a game.
Yeah, a lot of the material in Curse of Strahd is not very well written RAW, (I’m looking at you, tiger trained to commit genocide). Luckily, a lot of plot holes, stupid stuff, and other problems with the module can be solved with a little revision and help. I would suggest checking out the Curse of Strahd subreddit, especially the guides made by DragnaCarta, MandyMod, and Lunch Break Heroes. The module might not be very well designed, but to be fair, I personally think it’s way better than a lot of other modules I have read.
Also, the lore of Ravenloft and how the domains of dread work partially explain a lot about some of your doubts. Especially with Van Ricten’s Guide, which explains mist talismans (a way for people to travel to a domain, like Barovia, without a problem), or the Dark Powers and how the Domains are a curse and prison for these Darklords, among other things.
so yeah, Curse of Strahd does have many flaws, but given a little work, they are easily solved or explained. I personally would suggest not running CoS without a few revisions first. I might be a bit biased tho, I love Ravenloft/CoS, and am a regular of the subreddit and discord server.
One of the core ideas of CoS is that Strahd isn't actually trying to kill his enemies. He's bored, he lets the PCs wander around doing stuff because they're entertaining, at least for a while. As for Van Richten, he knows that the hunter is present somewhere, but doesn't know that the carnival ringmaster claiming to have been brought in by Vistani is the hunter. For the items in the castle, you will usually go after them when you're going to the final confrontation, but you might also get a chance to look around if Strahd invites the party to dinner.
I do like the way Strahd makes an appearance, then disappears without killing the party. I always try to have my villains make multiple appearances before the final conflict, to show how dangerous they are.
As for snooping around the castle before facing Strahd directly, the encounters seem to be designed almost at random. I get this approach; "You find what you find." And yet the balance is so wildly off that we get the following:
The thing about the Red Dragon Wyrmlings and the Iron Golems is that they both serve the same purpose which merits their difficulty. They both are set to prevent the escape of adventurers from the castle (either through the front door in the dragons' case or through the teleportation device in K78). The castle wouldnt be much of a threat to explore if you could easily explore a few rooms and then leave to rest before Strahd awakens (rinse and repeat).
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But the point is that in order to make use of the dragon skull, the PCs need to go to Castle Ravenloft well before there's any possibility of them being able to tackle these monsters. They need to do exactly what you describe - explore a few rooms, then leave to rest/take their loot out - more than once to access this part of the game.
By the time the PCs are heading to face Strahd, if they've been to the Amber Temple we can assume that they are level 8-10 and aside from those two encounters and Strahd himself, everything else in Castle Ravenloft is something I wouldn't bother rolling initiative for (3 zombies? A lone Strahd zombie? One Vampire Spawn? A Rug of Smothering? A lone Shadow Demon? I'd change the encounter to be more challenging or just handwave it with "you smash through 10 skeletons easily" rather than spend 25 minutes auto attacking them). Although Castle Ravenloft is awesome in terms of being a huge, detailed and explorable space, I think that the balancing is right out of whack. I wouldn't bother with rolling combat for a lone CR4 monster against a party - it would feel like a waste of time. The castle seems principally designed for a level 5 party to explore, except for those crazy high CR16 Iron Golems and the dragonlings.
I wouldn't be too bothered by it except for the other massively out of line encounters like the hag coven, Baba Lysaga etc.
I almost feel like Curse of Strahd is set up as an adventure where the players ought to be told at the beginning "there is very little chance of you making it through this adventure alive. The challenge isn't to win, but to see how far you can get."
I agree with you and I ranted about pretty much the same stuff in a post I made a couple of years back. We went through CoS starting at level 1 and there were several parts we enjoyed a lot (creepy death house in the beginning was CREEPY for lvl 1-2 characters). But so many parts of the adventure go against many of the reasons we play D&D for. Exploration is very limited because of the mists. Interaction with the locals is limited because there is only one town worth the name and one other tiny village. The scale of the place is completely ridiculous (the town surrounded by the wall reportedly has about 24 guards, half of which are on duty at a time) and half of THOSE (so about 6 people) patrol the walls. Measure out the length of the wall around the town and you'll see that it's close to a MILE long! That's about 3 football fields PER GUARD! How on earth can they expect to keep anything out with numbers like that?
Most of the enemies we fought had little if any treasure. There were few shops to buy from and very little gold to buy stuff with. We had to collect pretty much every cent we had in order to buy my character (the party tank) a suit of Plate armor. In frustration, I tossed out the idea of killing EVERYONE just to deny the Vampires a food source. Then I was reminded that the Vistani could bring people in and random travelers could be allowed in as well (which is how we got there). It was very inconsistent to say the least.
The ruins of Arkenvostholt were the same way. We were told flat-out that the encounter in the swamp was dangerous and we'd better wait before going there (the DM was not fond of TPKs and magic in the area was so messed up that we didn't want to risk being Revived). By the time we went there we were 8th level and the place was a cakewalk. We were frustrated by the fact that Strahd never came out of his castle to fight us directly and every time we talked about going to fight him at home we kept hearing about the Vampire and Werewolf minions he had there. We formulated a plan to call him out and try to get him to send ALL of his minions to attack us at the lake where we could avoid being surrounded. We figured that if we insulted him enough he'd send everyone out to get us.
The idea that you're supposed to be creeping into and out of the castle prior to the big showdown is nuts. Strahd has been in charge of the place for 7 centuries...if there's a secret way in he's likely found it. He and the Vampires could move about by day because the sun was obscured permanently by clouds. In the end, we were level 9 (my Cleric had me some spells THEN baby!) when we went in. We'd managed to figure out how to clear the skies (I forget how) so the Vampires had to hide by day. We wound up in Strahd's crypt around about noon and managed to keep his reinforcements out with a well-placed Web Spell. We defeated him but the whole ordeal had taken so long that we were just bored and wanted to leave the place. What's worse, the DM let it slip that the next realm over (where we'd likely wound up when we left) was larger but they might have a Vampire noble ruling that as well! We determined that if such was the case, we'd stomp into their lair boldly and take them out without buildup or fanfare.
"You're just going to go and challenge a Vampire noble in their home?"
"We just defeated the lord of a whole part of the Shadowfell! How much WORSE could this one be? Better to rush in and get her now than let her know we're in town and give her time to gather her forces against us!"
There are story arcs that just don't work well in D&D and 'the BBEG bunkers down in their nigh-impenetrable fortress to wait for you' is one of them.
The difference here is that Strahd's goal isn't to defeat the party. (unless they do something silly, like reunite Sergei and Tatyana) He's looking for someone interesting enough to either take his place or join him. The dragon skull quest won't be completed by 90% of parties, but a few will find themselves invited into the castle for dinner and might happen to find it. The stairs immediately opposite the dining hall entrance go down to the level with the skull and the room containing it is the central room of that level.
The issue with Strahd's wishes, having someone take his place or join him (my character was willing to take his place because I was considering making a new character) is that it winds up breaking the party. Many groups start CoS at low levels and it's built specifically for that. So you have a party that's stayed together through some really crazy shit for 8 levels or more and the campaign will continue but now one player needs to drop or make a new character? Pretty bogus IMHO.
Then there's the fact that
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!
Strahd doesn't even STAY gone. According to the material, he comes back in a few days/weeks/months. Talk about a let-down! As a DM I dare you to take your brand new group through ten levels together, have a tearful goodbye for one of them so he can stay behind to keep an eye on things and then tell them a few sessions that NOTHING that they did made any difference.
Not sure about your table but I'd likely wind up losing my players. As in ALL of them. You can understand their complaints..."What the hell did we do all of this for if he just comes back no matter what?"
Sounds like the setup of a fun follow-up adventure
"Knowing that the dark powers will Strahd and the other dark lords to revive and continue to torment and be tormented, the party sets out on their most dangerous quest yet. The quest to destroy the dark powers themselves"
Not to mention, I doubt it is intended that the party would be tasked to "redo" the module after a few weeks/months of freedom. If the party was just playing the module, then Strahd's revival isnt an issue since the campaign is done after he is killed. If the party goes on to another module after CoS, chances are they are far enough away that word of his revival does not reach them (unless the DM specifically wills it).
His revival is just flavorful and tied to the lore and a way to explain how a single vampire can continue to rule over part of the Shadowfell in a universe containing beings far more powerful than him. Its a single vampire. If there was nothing "keeping him alive" a group of level 1-10 adventurers might question how it is that no one else has managed to take care of him yet.
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THIS. Strahd is a prisoner. Besides Ireena, his #1 goal is to trick someone else into becoming the new Dark Lord. Anyone else at least provides him some fleeting excitement. There's no point in immediately slaughtering the only entertainment you've had in weeks, months or even years.
It doesn't have to? There's several people in Barovia with potential to take his place: Lady Fiona, Kasimir's sister, and maybe even the abbot.
Like Kaboom said, this is a great setup for a follow-up adventure. Think about it - Strahd will know now that not even being killed will free him, and the players have an incentive to try to find a permanent solution. Any party members that stayed behind to help rebuild (like the bard in one of my groups did) will need a way out. Any unresolved plot threads can be resolved.
I don't know about your group but the driving motivation in both of my games was escape. Helping Ireena is a nice side effect, but ultimately no one in the party wanted to be trapped in a dark hell-plane and cut off from friends and family forever.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
If someone does stay behind as Strahd's successor, the vampire won't reform, the curse will be bound to the PC.
Keep in mind that a PC becoming Strahd's successor is one of Strahd's victory conditions, not the PCs'. It doesn't matter whether the PCs are ever going to stay behind as a consort/successor, all that matters is that Strahd is considering them as candidates, and as such he doesn't necessarily want to kill them.
As much as I understand that not all endings can be happy ones, I still feel that the ending, as designed, is a bad one. Unless someone already wants a new character or is already planning on leaving the game, the options are to leave someone behind and they now need a new character, or the whole party leaves and Strahd returns to inflict more misery.
Obviously, none of the NPCs that are already there are suited to the task or they would already have maneuvered for them to take over.
Our version was more elegant if a bit sinister. We arranged for Arkenvost to oversee the people after Strahd was killed, but he did NOT assume the curse. This meant that Strahd would return and reform in his crypt at some point. We used spells to shape the crypt so that the lid wouldn't open and that the inside was lined with spikes that were blessed. This meant that after days, weeks, or months Strahd would reform inside his sarcophagus and immediately take damage from the blessed spikes. He couldn't escape so he would die and the process would repeat itself.
Yes, we were horribly cruel in doing this but after chasing Irena for 7 centuries plus inflicting untold misery on the villagers we felt he deserved it.
I also wound up becoming a Paladin of Arkenvost which meshed well with my War Cleric origins.
The ending isn't great for the adventuring party that is a cohesive fighting unit. It's a much better ending for a party that's a group of backstabbers out for their own gain. The successor finds out too late that they're the one that got the short end of the stick.
Actually, there is one NPC that's suited. If she can be convinced that it's the only way to free Strahd, she might even do it.