As an aside, I still find it very weird that people assign MMO roles (Tank, Healer, DPS) to D&D characters. :)
Idk I'm pretty sure D&D has always been played that way and the terminology just had to play catch up with the game.
Yeah, it's more that video-games ended up with those roles because they were the bridge between the known, like what a fighter or wizard is expected to do for their party, and the unknown, like which of these classes with fancy names like shadow knight, beastlord, or enchanter fit into the established archetypes.
And before video-game speak locked down the terms tank, healer, and dps, people just used different phrases to describe the same thing like "our party needs a good front-line character" or "please play a cleric so we have at least some healing magic available".
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Very detailed explanation Hero and I don't disagree with what you've laid out here if we're talking about reality and practicality. I'm going for play-ability and balance which I don't feel the current set up does adequately. The jump in AC I don't feel holds true because you have multiple classes that can achieve the same or higher at lower levels, Clerics, Barbs, Monks with far less effort and cost.
What I've more or less settled on is about 5th level seems a reasonable place for players to be able to access plate. Depending on the setting and group composition and general personality of the party that will dictate what method I use to get it into their hands.
Good discussion, I appreciate all of the feedback and input!
If we assume the standard array is the default, then a level 1 PC can have at most a 17 in one ability score. So +3. We will assume race optimization and the second ability score is a 15 (+2 to the first, +1 to the second). so a +2. So at first level Barbarian and Monk are at a 15 AC which I would assume is average. So both are going to have to forgo any feats and be like level 8 or 12 before they reach an AC of 20. (Depending on the use of a shield). This assumes both classes use dex based weapons. So I'm not sure how a Barbarian and Monk can reach 20 AC with far less effort and cost and at a lower level (outside of rolling some amazing ability scores using an optional character building concept, balance would assume the standard array not rolling). And I have no idea how a cleric is going to get an AC close to 20 before someone wearing full plate can.
There is no reason to take a 17 (+3) and a 15 (+2) in your most important stats when you could have two 16s (+3).
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Can anyone justify for me the cost of plate mail? Yeah I get that it takes a skilled craftsman and all that but seriously it's 1300 gold more than the next closest thing which to me just seems way out of line with any other piece of gear going.
Because it's got way more metal than anything else. It's literally enough metal to cover an entire body in a practical shell. If you think about it, other armor just doesn't use that much metal, comparatively.
Every group needs a front line. Once enemy gets to squishy targets, people go down really fast. If the guy up front stands for longer blocking enemy access, that is to benefit of everyone. Don't forget that adventurers risk their lives all the time. Maybe more players should realise this. If players greed makes them weaker, everyone might die and no one will get to spend the scrunged funds.
Can anyone justify for me the cost of plate mail? Yeah I get that it takes a skilled craftsman and all that but seriously it's 1300 gold more than the next closest thing which to me just seems way out of line with any other piece of gear going.
Because it's got way more metal than anything else. It's literally enough metal to cover an entire body in a practical shell. If you think about it, other armor just doesn't use that much metal, comparatively.
Not even just metal. Plate mail is work of art and it is layered armour.
You got your metal shell, fine crafted to over lap but also not limiting movement and articulation. Even if something can't be covered in plate like joints, it still protected by chain mail and padding. Speaking of padding, whole armour is padded so it doesn't chaff as well as to mitigate blunt force.
You could say a single set of plate is like severel different sets of expensive sets of armor (like breast plate + more), adjusted to size of the wearer and usually made with ornaments since it is premium product.
Other thing worth mentioning is every found or looted plate mail set shouldn't be just ready to jump into. It needs to be resized and fitted. I would say a short rest with smithing/leatherworking(straps etc)/thieves tools should do the job or a cheap visit at blacksmith.
I put it in an abandoned armory but I made it so it’s a bit beaten up so it makes sense that they didn’t want to bring it then I added a 500gp repair cost so it’s cutting down the price so it’s a bit affordable but not out right giving it to them
We rarely pay much attention to equipment size unless the difference is absolutely bizarre. It's just a detail that doesn't really add much value. You loot an armor after a fierce encounter and have to carry it around for who knows how long and then pay and wait to get it resized by a blacksmith? While other loot can be used immediately. Is that fun for anyone involved? To me it just wastes precious time for no value.
Especially our magic items always have the One Ring effect by default, so the item adjusts its size automatically with a new owner.
If someone is bothered by a random plate fitting perfectly, then it's always possible to say that it has an enchantment to always fit perfectly.
Around lvl 5+ is usually when I get my players the best mundane equipment too. 18AC with stealth penalty is not awfully lot IMO.
It's rare to have a group that will actually have group gold and help each other out. Would make the game much better though. If you want a player to have plate mail you either let them find it 2) have a character give them some 3) give away lots of gold until they can afford it.
I find this surprising. As a player I'm usually assigned "track gear for the party" because I'm the "Party Secretary" and Excel monkey. I keep a shared GDoc of all party gear and campaign notes.
It's been common in lots of my groups to create a "Party Fund".
All loot is divided by the number of players + 1.
The +1 player is the "Party Fund". This is where we buy healing items and other gear/loot not "owned" by a player but the party as a whole. In addition party members can "borrow" of the bank of "The Party" in addition to other players.
This sounds like a very good idea, I'll have to suggest it to my group. Thank you.
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Rosemary Kent
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And the term meat shield has been around for a while
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Every group needs a front line. Once enemy gets to squishy targets, people go down really fast. If the guy up front stands for longer blocking enemy access, that is to benefit of everyone. Don't forget that adventurers risk their lives all the time. Maybe more players should realise this. If players greed makes them weaker, everyone might die and no one will get to spend the scrunged funds.
Not even just metal. Plate mail is work of art and it is layered armour.
You got your metal shell, fine crafted to over lap but also not limiting movement and articulation. Even if something can't be covered in plate like joints, it still protected by chain mail and padding. Speaking of padding, whole armour is padded so it doesn't chaff as well as to mitigate blunt force.
You could say a single set of plate is like severel different sets of expensive sets of armor (like breast plate + more), adjusted to size of the wearer and usually made with ornaments since it is premium product.
Other thing worth mentioning is every found or looted plate mail set shouldn't be just ready to jump into. It needs to be resized and fitted. I would say a short rest with smithing/leatherworking(straps etc)/thieves tools should do the job or a cheap visit at blacksmith.
I put it in an abandoned armory but I made it so it’s a bit beaten up so it makes sense that they didn’t want to bring it then I added a 500gp repair cost so it’s cutting down the price so it’s a bit affordable but not out right giving it to them
We rarely pay much attention to equipment size unless the difference is absolutely bizarre. It's just a detail that doesn't really add much value. You loot an armor after a fierce encounter and have to carry it around for who knows how long and then pay and wait to get it resized by a blacksmith? While other loot can be used immediately. Is that fun for anyone involved? To me it just wastes precious time for no value.
Especially our magic items always have the One Ring effect by default, so the item adjusts its size automatically with a new owner.
If someone is bothered by a random plate fitting perfectly, then it's always possible to say that it has an enchantment to always fit perfectly.
Around lvl 5+ is usually when I get my players the best mundane equipment too. 18AC with stealth penalty is not awfully lot IMO.
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This sounds like a very good idea, I'll have to suggest it to my group. Thank you.
Rosemary Kent