Longtime 1E DM and player here, closing in on two full years of playing (and DMing) 5E.
Last session (I was the DM), the party finds a cursed item (cursed dagger). They first do detect magic on and yes, it's magic. They then run an identify spell on it, which reveals the curse.
Does identify always reveal the nature/specifics of a curse? I did some perusing of the cursed magic items in the DMG; some explicitly say that the spell indeed reveals the cursed nature while others (bag of devouring, for instance) do not.
Does identify pretty much neuter the use of cursed items? How do y'all apply and use it and cursed items, if at all?
ETA: Here is the full text of the spell:
You choose one object that you must touch throughout the casting of the spell. If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are. If the item was created by a spell, you learn which spell created it.
If you instead touch a creature throughout the casting, you learn what spells, if any, are currently affecting it.
Maybe this is my old 3.5 experience speaking. I would think identifying a cursed item wouldn't be difficult (DC 10 probably). Identifying the actual curse, though, should be something akin to a DC 10 + spellcaster's level that imbued the curse upon it, no? It may not be in a manual or guide, but it makes sense to me. Just throwing that out there.
Cursed Items: Most methods of identifying items, including the Identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the items user when the curse's effects are revealed.
Why is this so? Dunno. At first, I thought Identify would reveal the curse too, and thought that kinda ruined cursed weapons until I double checked and found this.
Thanks for the responses! I was mightily puzzled by this - without having read the section in the DMG, I thought it was wei.rd that the game included cursed items but made it super easy to detect them.
If an item is cursed, it's pretty much up to you if you would let them see it. Just remember that getting of a curse is a larger pain that one would imagine.
This might not be an exact answer to your question but here ya go anyway ^^: When you make a cursed item think about what would make the curse worth taking. Like craven edge! It is an easy DC of 12 but still many fail it. And grog has A LOT OF USE IN GETTING MORE STRENGTH! But he loses it after a short rest AND if he can bring it to it's fullest it does 2d6 extra necrotic damage, but has a chance of killing him instantly. Think about what really good effect could be tied to a curse. And then let your players think of it being worth it. And remember, you don't need to show the entire curse on it. Slowly revealing it can also work. But also think of, if it's an evil character, maybe the bloodthirsty demon inside a blade isn't going to be much of a curse. Maybe there it would be better for a celestial to be forcing him NOT to attack, eh? So to make curses interesting and getting a chance to SEE THEM IN ACTION (which is rare) you gotta have something good about it.
This is one of those game rules which has no real consistent in-game justification.
The reason that Identify isn't supposed to find cursed items, is that Players would find them most of the time, and where's the story impact of a cursed item, then?
I think that if this were a simulation, and not a game, then Identity should probably work to find cursed items ( although Identify in a simulation would likely be a lot more complex, nuanced, difficult to use, and often partial and incomplete in it's revealed information than the current here's the DMG text and the activation words for your item insta-win that it is now).
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( although Identify in a simulation would likely be a lot more complex, nuanced, difficult to use, and often partial and incomplete in it's revealed information than the current here's the DMG text and the activation words for your item insta-win that it is now).
In 1E, Identify doesn't work as a 100% accurate readout of the item in question. I don't have the books handy, but I believe there was a percentage or variable amount of info the spell revealed. Or maybe just one aspect per application of the spell, rather than revealing everything.
As this became relevant to my game recently, I am posting up a year late on this thread. I am mainly summarizing this for my own purposes, but also for anyone else looking up this information. All notes below are RAW as far as I can determine. Everything is of course up to the GM.
A cursed item does not show as magical, unless there is a secondary magical effect (+1 cursed sword).
Therefore, neither Detect Magic nor Identify will show that an item is cursed, let alone what that curse is.
A cursed item usually requires attunement, but not necessarily if it is otherwise mundane.
If it requires attunement, you are not only cursed as long as that attunement exists, but you are prevented from ending the attunement on your own voluntarily.
Remove Curse, or Greater Restoration will end attunement to a cursed item long enough for it to be removed, and the character freed from that curse, but will NOT end the curse on the item.
The only methods to remove a curse on an item is the use of a Wish, destroying the item entirely, or in the case of a deliberate curse being cast during creation, the caster must release it.
Usually, if the identify reveals a curse (or any information about a curse) on a magic item, the description of the item will say, otherwise, the default is (as others have stated) that the spell fails to reveal curses.
For example, using identify on the armor of vulnerability will reveal that the item is cursed, but not (at least according to my understanding of the text), the specifics of the curse itself.
Usually, if the identify reveals a curse (or any information about a curse) on a magic item, the description of the item will say, otherwise, the default is (as others have stated) that the spell fails to reveal curses.
For example, using identify on the armor of vulnerability will reveal that the item is cursed, but not (at least according to my understanding of the text), the specifics of the curse itself.
But Identify does not reveal a cursed item as explained in post #2 in reference to the DMG.
Usually, if the identify reveals a curse (or any information about a curse) on a magic item, the description of the item will say, otherwise, the default is (as others have stated) that the spell fails to reveal curses.
For example, using identify on the armor of vulnerability will reveal that the item is cursed, but not (at least according to my understanding of the text), the specifics of the curse itself.
But Identify does not reveal a cursed item as explained in post #2 in reference to the DMG.
This is a case of the specific rule of the item itself overriding the general rule of cursed items. It’s the text of the item that allows identify to work
In the game I GM, I've decided there are two ways to identify magic items.
First, the identify spell. You learn the magic, how to operate it, how many charges it has. It doesn't tell you the curses, but will almost certainly not activate any curses. The spellcaster has to touch the item while casting identify, but doesn't have to use it or wear it or anything like that.
Second, trial and error. You put the item on and try things. Walk on water. Jump. Fly. Hit things. Tray random command words. This will probably use a charge or two and will almost certainly activate any curses. On the other hand, it doesn't use a spell slot/ritual and doesn't require a 100gp pearl.
The DMG explains both using the identify spell and doing it through trial and error:
"The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Sometimes a magic item carries a clue to its properties. The command word to activate a ring might be etched in tiny letters inside it, or a feathered design might suggest that it’s a ring of feather falling.
Wearing or experimenting with an item can also offer hints about its properties. For example, if a character puts on a ring of jumping, you could say, “Your steps feel strangely springy.” Perhaps the character then jumps up and down to see what happens. You then say the character jumps unexpectedly high."
As others have stated, this doesn't reveal a curse, unless the item's description specifically says otherwise. If identification would reveal the curse, then no one would be surprised by cursed items, and where's the fun in that? If you as DM aren't comfortable with the possibility of the character being cursed by a particular item, then don't put the item in the adventure in the first place, or substitute it with a less problematic cursed item.
I don't like Cursed items much. Giving out treasure that bites people is cruel, and that's not the kind of thing I want unless I'm going to base a story around it. I used to let Identify detect Curses, since if someone was willing to burn a spell slot it was good enough for me. Otherwise, Identify is largely useless for anything other than figuring out if someone has spells on them, like a Charm spell. I have had a change of heart on that. Now, what I think I will do is let them use Legend Lore.
The spell mentions that you can learn "secrets" about the item, but the spell also assumes that you are working from a description of the item, so I'm going to add to the descriptive text under the spell information the following:
When you are holding the item you want to know Lore about, the spell gives you something like Psychometry, the ability to see into the object's past from the viewpoint of the item. This reveals anything that might have been learned from taking a Short Rest while holding the item, and anything you might have learned with Identify and more. It can also reveal curses. Using the spell in this way requires Concentration for 1d4 minutes. The spell will fail to reveal any information about Sentient items or Artifacts that cannot be determined by Identify.
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Longtime 1E DM and player here, closing in on two full years of playing (and DMing) 5E.
Last session (I was the DM), the party finds a cursed item (cursed dagger). They first do detect magic on and yes, it's magic. They then run an identify spell on it, which reveals the curse.
Does identify always reveal the nature/specifics of a curse? I did some perusing of the cursed magic items in the DMG; some explicitly say that the spell indeed reveals the cursed nature while others (bag of devouring, for instance) do not.
Does identify pretty much neuter the use of cursed items? How do y'all apply and use it and cursed items, if at all?
ETA: Here is the full text of the spell:
From the DMG:
Identify does not reveal a curse, as a general rule. There might be an exception, though.
Ah, I haven't read that part of the DMG.
Good to know. And good to know I screwed up this weekend. :P
A curse is not a magical property of the item. It is a curse.
Maybe this is my old 3.5 experience speaking. I would think identifying a cursed item wouldn't be difficult (DC 10 probably). Identifying the actual curse, though, should be something akin to a DC 10 + spellcaster's level that imbued the curse upon it, no? It may not be in a manual or guide, but it makes sense to me. Just throwing that out there.
Yep, Page 138 of the DM's Guide covers this.
Cursed Items: Most methods of identifying items, including the Identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the items user when the curse's effects are revealed.
Why is this so? Dunno. At first, I thought Identify would reveal the curse too, and thought that kinda ruined cursed weapons until I double checked and found this.
Thanks for the responses! I was mightily puzzled by this - without having read the section in the DMG, I thought it was wei.rd that the game included cursed items but made it super easy to detect them.
The more you know!
If an item is cursed, it's pretty much up to you if you would let them see it. Just remember that getting of a curse is a larger pain that one would imagine.
This might not be an exact answer to your question but here ya go anyway ^^:
When you make a cursed item think about what would make the curse worth taking. Like craven edge! It is an easy DC of 12 but still many fail it. And grog has A LOT OF USE IN GETTING MORE STRENGTH! But he loses it after a short rest AND if he can bring it to it's fullest it does 2d6 extra necrotic damage, but has a chance of killing him instantly.
Think about what really good effect could be tied to a curse. And then let your players think of it being worth it. And remember, you don't need to show the entire curse on it. Slowly revealing it can also work. But also think of, if it's an evil character, maybe the bloodthirsty demon inside a blade isn't going to be much of a curse. Maybe there it would be better for a celestial to be forcing him NOT to attack, eh? So to make curses interesting and getting a chance to SEE THEM IN ACTION (which is rare) you gotta have something good about it.
Hope this helped! ^^
This is one of those game rules which has no real consistent in-game justification.
The reason that Identify isn't supposed to find cursed items, is that Players would find them most of the time, and where's the story impact of a cursed item, then?
I think that if this were a simulation, and not a game, then Identity should probably work to find cursed items ( although Identify in a simulation would likely be a lot more complex, nuanced, difficult to use, and often partial and incomplete in it's revealed information than the current here's the DMG text and the activation words for your item insta-win that it is now).
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
In 1E, Identify doesn't work as a 100% accurate readout of the item in question. I don't have the books handy, but I believe there was a percentage or variable amount of info the spell revealed. Or maybe just one aspect per application of the spell, rather than revealing everything.
As this became relevant to my game recently, I am posting up a year late on this thread. I am mainly summarizing this for my own purposes, but also for anyone else looking up this information. All notes below are RAW as far as I can determine. Everything is of course up to the GM.
A cursed item does not show as magical, unless there is a secondary magical effect (+1 cursed sword).
Therefore, neither Detect Magic nor Identify will show that an item is cursed, let alone what that curse is.
A cursed item usually requires attunement, but not necessarily if it is otherwise mundane.
If it requires attunement, you are not only cursed as long as that attunement exists, but you are prevented from ending the attunement on your own voluntarily.
Remove Curse, or Greater Restoration will end attunement to a cursed item long enough for it to be removed, and the character freed from that curse, but will NOT end the curse on the item.
The only methods to remove a curse on an item is the use of a Wish, destroying the item entirely, or in the case of a deliberate curse being cast during creation, the caster must release it.
EXCELLENT summation, darwInfIsh. Thank you!
Usually, if the identify reveals a curse (or any information about a curse) on a magic item, the description of the item will say, otherwise, the default is (as others have stated) that the spell fails to reveal curses.
For example, using identify on the armor of vulnerability will reveal that the item is cursed, but not (at least according to my understanding of the text), the specifics of the curse itself.
But Identify does not reveal a cursed item as explained in post #2 in reference to the DMG.
This is a case of the specific rule of the item itself overriding the general rule of cursed items. It’s the text of the item that allows identify to work
In the game I GM, I've decided there are two ways to identify magic items.
First, the identify spell. You learn the magic, how to operate it, how many charges it has. It doesn't tell you the curses, but will almost certainly not activate any curses. The spellcaster has to touch the item while casting identify, but doesn't have to use it or wear it or anything like that.
Second, trial and error. You put the item on and try things. Walk on water. Jump. Fly. Hit things. Tray random command words. This will probably use a charge or two and will almost certainly activate any curses. On the other hand, it doesn't use a spell slot/ritual and doesn't require a 100gp pearl.
So how would go about adding the item do the DDB character sheet without the player knowing it's cursed?
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Two separate items.
Give them the non-cursed version of the item.
When they discover the curse, tell them to swap to the other version.
But you will have to use very different names, otherwise they might find the cursed version while looking for the non-cursed version.
The DMG explains both using the identify spell and doing it through trial and error:
"The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Sometimes a magic item carries a clue to its properties. The command word to activate a ring might be etched in tiny letters inside it, or a feathered design might suggest that it’s a ring of feather falling.
Wearing or experimenting with an item can also offer hints about its properties. For example, if a character puts on a ring of jumping, you could say, “Your steps feel strangely springy.” Perhaps the character then jumps up and down to see what happens. You then say the character jumps unexpectedly high."
As others have stated, this doesn't reveal a curse, unless the item's description specifically says otherwise. If identification would reveal the curse, then no one would be surprised by cursed items, and where's the fun in that? If you as DM aren't comfortable with the possibility of the character being cursed by a particular item, then don't put the item in the adventure in the first place, or substitute it with a less problematic cursed item.
I don't like Cursed items much. Giving out treasure that bites people is cruel, and that's not the kind of thing I want unless I'm going to base a story around it. I used to let Identify detect Curses, since if someone was willing to burn a spell slot it was good enough for me. Otherwise, Identify is largely useless for anything other than figuring out if someone has spells on them, like a Charm spell. I have had a change of heart on that. Now, what I think I will do is let them use Legend Lore.
The spell mentions that you can learn "secrets" about the item, but the spell also assumes that you are working from a description of the item, so I'm going to add to the descriptive text under the spell information the following:
When you are holding the item you want to know Lore about, the spell gives you something like Psychometry, the ability to see into the object's past from the viewpoint of the item. This reveals anything that might have been learned from taking a Short Rest while holding the item, and anything you might have learned with Identify and more. It can also reveal curses. Using the spell in this way requires Concentration for 1d4 minutes. The spell will fail to reveal any information about Sentient items or Artifacts that cannot be determined by Identify.
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