Regarding War Caster and Booming Blade: This is actually quite clear by the rules of reactions, which occur immediately after the trigger completes. The attack of opportunity is triggered by leaving reach, so the booming blade attack would happen after the movement to leave reach. If the targeted creature decides to continue movement, then that would be movement under the effect of booming blade, triggering damage, or they could stop movement after taking the BB hit (just outside of reach) to avoid the extra damage.
Regarding War Caster and Booming Blade: This is actually quite clear by the rules of reactions, which occur immediately after the trigger completes. The attack of opportunity is triggered by leaving reach, so the booming blade attack would happen after the movement to leave reach. If the targeted creature decides to continue movement, then that would be movement under the effect of booming blade, triggering damage, or they could stop movement after taking the BB hit (just outside of reach) to avoid the extra damage.
The rule for Opportunity Attacks explicitly says "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach." Since the Booming Blade cantrip is explicitly replacing the attack, one can assume the spell happens at the same time the attack would, i.e. right before the creature leaves your reach. Plus, think about it logically. The creature HAS to be within your reach when you make the attack, otherwise the attack couldn't, well... reach them. The same would apply if you were using War Caster to try and hit them with Shocking Grasp or some other spell that involved a melee spell attack.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
No opportunity attack is being made if a spell is being cast. OA-specific rules do not apply in this circumstance.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
No opportunity attack is being made if a spell is being cast. OA-specific rules do not apply in this circumstance.
No opportunity attack is being made, but, given War Caster's language, the timing is the same as the opportunity attack's.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
No opportunity attack is being made if a spell is being cast. OA-specific rules do not apply in this circumstance.
You can only cast this spell when an AoO is provoked. An AoO is provoked when a creature is *about* to leave your reach, as indicated by when you actually take the reaction. The trigger for the War Caster reaction spell is the same.
There's a difference. With an OA, the attack happens and the person moves away. In this case, the timing may be the same, but the person has the choice to move away or abandon the movement and stay in the same location. Why does this matter? Because with Booming Blade, there is immediate damage and then there is secondary damage. In this case, the spell is cast and the initial attack is made either way, but the secondary damage depends on whether the target elects to continue moving away or not. Jeremy Crawford agrees this is RAI.
You have the option of stopping your movement with a normal attack of opportunity as well, which is exactly what Crawford is saying in that tweet. There’s no functional difference for our purposes between an AoO and the spell reaction granted by War Caster.
I dunno what to tell you, bro. It seems to me that you're suggesting the difference is that in one, the target can choose to stop moving, but in the other, they can't. This is incorrect. The target can choose to stop their movement in either case. If that's not what you're claiming the difference is, please explain further, because it's not at all clear from your post.
OK, I'll admit I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Here's what I understood and you can correct me if I am mistaken.
It looks to me like you are saying that in a normal (non-warcaster) OA, a person moves out of melee range, they receive the melee attack, and then they can choose to continue moving away or not. And because the same rule applies in either case, there is no distinction to be made between the warcaster and non-warcaster scenarios. Did I understand that correctly? If I did, then my response would be to ask why would you ever do that? With Booming Blade there's a good reason not to continue moving if you know what's going on. In a non-warcaster scenario, I can't think of any reason you wouldn't keep on moving after taking your hit or else never move in the first place.
Ah, I see. I was only commenting on what the rules allow. Motivation is a separate issue entirely.
That said, an example that immediately springs to mind is this: a wolf charges for what it thinks to be the most dangerous enemy on the field, provoking an AoO in so doing. Having received that hit, it turns to attack its current assailant instead, because it’s a creature of instinct and the threat prioritization has clearly shifted.
I can imagine similar scenarios for more intelligent actors as well. Maybe it’s in-character that you go for one target and risk the AoO but if it actually lands, yuh get PISSED, so now it’s beatin’ time, etc etc.
The answer is heavily dependent on the precise details of the situation, and often it will make sense to keep on moving regardless, but it’s by no means a universal thing.
And if you're wondering what my post #66 was about, it was a direct response to post #65 where jd2319 quoted text from the OA rules to rebut post #64. If one is going to make one's case based on the letter of the law, one needs to make sure the law one is quoting applies to the case one is making.
I can imagine similar scenarios for more intelligent actors as well. Maybe it’s in-character that you go for one target and risk the AoO but if it actually lands, yuh get PISSED, so now it’s beatin’ time, etc etc.
And if you're wondering what my post #66 was about, it was a direct response to post #65 where jd2319 quoted text from the OA rules to rebut post #64. If one is going to make one's case based on the letter of the law, one needs to make sure the law one is quoting applies to the case one is making.
War Caster states: "When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
The plain reading of the text is that the casting takes place at the same time that the Opportunity Attack would be made. I stand by my previous post 100%.
The only way it wouldn’t trigger is if someone had sentinel and reduced it’s speed to 0 so it could not get out the range, but would still get op attacks. If someone says they are moving and understands op attacks, they can’t stop because they didn’t think of booming blade and war caster.
The thing that bugs me about Booming Blade is the spell's range of 5'. IMHO, it would make logical sense to have the range equal to the effective range of the melee weapon used to cast it. It wouldn't break the spell, but it would make it a lot more useful. Using a weapon with reach you could then cast it at 10', making the target subject to the extra damage for moving if they want to close with you for melee.
The thing that bugs me about Booming Blade is the spell's range of 5'. IMHO, it would make logical sense to have the range equal to the effective range of the melee weapon used to cast it. It wouldn't break the spell, but it would make it a lot more useful. Using a weapon with reach you could then cast it at 10', making the target subject to the extra damage for moving if they want to close with you for melee.
Spell Sniper feat will help you accomplish this. It can even get you the cantrip. The other bullet won't be useful to you if that's all you're going for. I get that having it work with reach weapons by default is what you are after, but then you'd be unhappy when you wanted it to work with a bugbear using a reach weapon (only gets to 15 ft on their turn, it's the normal 10 otherwise).
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I would have thought that if there was anything we could agree upon regarding Booming Blade, it would be that it goes "boom."
Regarding War Caster and Booming Blade: This is actually quite clear by the rules of reactions, which occur immediately after the trigger completes. The attack of opportunity is triggered by leaving reach, so the booming blade attack would happen after the movement to leave reach. If the targeted creature decides to continue movement, then that would be movement under the effect of booming blade, triggering damage, or they could stop movement after taking the BB hit (just outside of reach) to avoid the extra damage.
The rule for Opportunity Attacks explicitly says "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach." Since the Booming Blade cantrip is explicitly replacing the attack, one can assume the spell happens at the same time the attack would, i.e. right before the creature leaves your reach. Plus, think about it logically. The creature HAS to be within your reach when you make the attack, otherwise the attack couldn't, well... reach them. The same would apply if you were using War Caster to try and hit them with Shocking Grasp or some other spell that involved a melee spell attack.
No opportunity attack is being made if a spell is being cast. OA-specific rules do not apply in this circumstance.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
No opportunity attack is being made, but, given War Caster's language, the timing is the same as the opportunity attack's.
You can only cast this spell when an AoO is provoked. An AoO is provoked when a creature is *about* to leave your reach, as indicated by when you actually take the reaction. The trigger for the War Caster reaction spell is the same.
There's a difference. With an OA, the attack happens and the person moves away. In this case, the timing may be the same, but the person has the choice to move away or abandon the movement and stay in the same location. Why does this matter? Because with Booming Blade, there is immediate damage and then there is secondary damage. In this case, the spell is cast and the initial attack is made either way, but the secondary damage depends on whether the target elects to continue moving away or not. Jeremy Crawford agrees this is RAI.
That's why I point out the difference.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You have the option of stopping your movement with a normal attack of opportunity as well, which is exactly what Crawford is saying in that tweet. There’s no functional difference for our purposes between an AoO and the spell reaction granted by War Caster.
I believe I just pointed out the difference.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I dunno what to tell you, bro. It seems to me that you're suggesting the difference is that in one, the target can choose to stop moving, but in the other, they can't. This is incorrect. The target can choose to stop their movement in either case. If that's not what you're claiming the difference is, please explain further, because it's not at all clear from your post.
OK, I'll admit I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Here's what I understood and you can correct me if I am mistaken.
It looks to me like you are saying that in a normal (non-warcaster) OA, a person moves out of melee range, they receive the melee attack, and then they can choose to continue moving away or not. And because the same rule applies in either case, there is no distinction to be made between the warcaster and non-warcaster scenarios. Did I understand that correctly? If I did, then my response would be to ask why would you ever do that? With Booming Blade there's a good reason not to continue moving if you know what's going on. In a non-warcaster scenario, I can't think of any reason you wouldn't keep on moving after taking your hit or else never move in the first place.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Ah, I see. I was only commenting on what the rules allow. Motivation is a separate issue entirely.
That said, an example that immediately springs to mind is this: a wolf charges for what it thinks to be the most dangerous enemy on the field, provoking an AoO in so doing. Having received that hit, it turns to attack its current assailant instead, because it’s a creature of instinct and the threat prioritization has clearly shifted.
I can imagine similar scenarios for more intelligent actors as well. Maybe it’s in-character that you go for one target and risk the AoO but if it actually lands, yuh get PISSED, so now it’s beatin’ time, etc etc.
The answer is heavily dependent on the precise details of the situation, and often it will make sense to keep on moving regardless, but it’s by no means a universal thing.
And if you're wondering what my post #66 was about, it was a direct response to post #65 where jd2319 quoted text from the OA rules to rebut post #64. If one is going to make one's case based on the letter of the law, one needs to make sure the law one is quoting applies to the case one is making.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
haha ok, I stand corrected.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
War Caster states: "When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
The plain reading of the text is that the casting takes place at the same time that the Opportunity Attack would be made. I stand by my previous post 100%.
The only way it wouldn’t trigger is if someone had sentinel and reduced it’s speed to 0 so it could not get out the range, but would still get op attacks. If someone says they are moving and understands op attacks, they can’t stop because they didn’t think of booming blade and war caster.
I would argue that it would only make a sound if it is triggered. Cast the spell, make the melee attack, but the target doesn't move, thus no boom.
"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"
The thing that bugs me about Booming Blade is the spell's range of 5'. IMHO, it would make logical sense to have the range equal to the effective range of the melee weapon used to cast it. It wouldn't break the spell, but it would make it a lot more useful. Using a weapon with reach you could then cast it at 10', making the target subject to the extra damage for moving if they want to close with you for melee.
Spell Sniper feat will help you accomplish this. It can even get you the cantrip. The other bullet won't be useful to you if that's all you're going for. I get that having it work with reach weapons by default is what you are after, but then you'd be unhappy when you wanted it to work with a bugbear using a reach weapon (only gets to 15 ft on their turn, it's the normal 10 otherwise).