I may have created a situation, but I did not think one of my players would do this.
I have a campaign I am running on the western continent of Anchorome. Trying to keep it distant from the primary story stuff but still be able to pull from it. I am using the Mines of Phandelver as a intro to lead them into a storyline.
So, the players get to Phandolin and everything goes fine, the catch on to investigate the Redbrands. So they investigate the bar they hang out with, they get surrounded by the 4 hanging out on the porch and end up in a fight, they kill all 4 before one can get away. So they go inside and talk to the owner, she is gruff and doesnt want them there, but is not hostile. Only one player goes inside, 3 are out front and one is off to the side behind a building down the road a bit and was attacking at range, staying there looking out while the 1st player went in.
During the conversation the owner whispered something to a kid and had them run out the back. Basically to go communicate what happened to either the manor or the the town master since they have him fairly well intimidated. The player on the lookout sees the kid and tries to tackle him. He gets away screams and the player shoots the kid in the back with his bow.
That is where we left off. I am not sure how to handle this. I told him there was no way you could know what that kid was doing. I told him there is no way this aligns as a neutral good, he said Oh I thought I was neutral.
This is a fairly problematic player anyways he argues the most and wants to rule lawyer the most. This is the first game I have ever DMed long term and I just need some help trying to figure out how to handle the situation both in the context of the town as well as with this player. He is a Tabaxi rogue who is an outcast but has been observing the other races for a while.
His action, shooting the kid, is a bit on the aggressive side but not unwarranted. It is not uncommon for children to be part of thieves' guilds, used as spies, etc. and as a rogue the Tabaxi would be aware of this concept. He attempted to subdue the child, the child ran, he reacted by attacking what was perceived as a threat. It is also, not evil/bad if you consider it from this point of view. I would look at the player and comment that, "As a rogue, killing may be necessary but drawing attention to yourself by killing is bad for business. Make sure you take into account the consequences of killing someone before you know their intentions, it may not always be the best course of action."
The town, on the other hand, is not going to be happy with the death. They will probably not understand this reasoning since it's not something that they would think of naturally. There is a chance that the Tabaxi may get away with it since the Red Brand are a threat. There is a chance that the Tabaxi will be caught if there was a witness. As well, the information that the child was to deliver has now been lost. From here you move the story forward with this situation affecting it. How will the town react to a dead/missing child? How will the lack of information affect the Town master? How does this affect the Red Brands, if they're implicated for the dead/missing child? How does this affect the party if they are implicated for the dead/missing child? These are the questions you'll need to ask as you get to your next session.
What I don't understand is how the child could possibly get away. The tabaxi can sprint and catch pretty much anyone before they run any significant distance. Tabaxi can climb up walls. Tabaxi have claws. Tabaxi are freaking intimidating looking to almost ANY child. They might try to run but as soon as the Tabaxi grabs them they are probably going to give up before the claws rip into their arm or leg. You might have the kid squirm loose the first time but there won't be a second time. The Tabaxi should have felt no need to shoot the child in the back to prevent their escape ... they can EASILY outrun the child and since the child has already screamed ... shooting them isn't going to change that.
The only reason the Tabaxi might have had for shooting the child would be the belief that they were about to escape, which would be a narrative issue on the DMs part since, in my opionion, with a Tabaxi at least, escape should be pretty much impossible in this situation.
As for sending the child to the town master or manor ... assuming that they are in a town, during the day or early evening, then there were likely a LOT of witnesses to what happened outside the bar on the porch. Someone is very likely to have already informed various authorities of what was going on so sending the child as a plot device really wasn't necessary in the first place.
His action, shooting the kid, is a bit on the aggressive side but not unwarranted. It is not uncommon for children to be part of thieves' guilds, used as spies, etc. and as a rogue the Tabaxi would be aware of this concept. He attempted to subdue the child, the child ran, he reacted by attacking what was perceived as a threat. It is also, not evil/bad if you consider it from this point of view. I would look at the player and comment that, "As a rogue, killing may be necessary but drawing attention to yourself by killing is bad for business. Make sure you take into account the consequences of killing someone before you know their intentions, it may not always be the best course of action."
The town, on the other hand, is not going to be happy with the death. They will probably not understand this reasoning since it's not something that they would think of naturally. There is a chance that the Tabaxi may get away with it since the Red Brand are a threat. There is a chance that the Tabaxi will be caught if there was a witness. As well, the information that the child was to deliver has now been lost. From here you move the story forward with this situation affecting it. How will the town react to a dead/missing child? How will the lack of information affect the Town master? How does this affect the Red Brands, if they're implicated for the dead/missing child? How does this affect the party if they are implicated for the dead/missing child? These are the questions you'll need to ask as you get to your next session.
These were things I was considering, just trying to figure out how to do it. Thanks for the questions to try to ask and answer for myself.
What I don't understand is how the child could possibly get away. The tabaxi can sprint and catch pretty much anyone before they run any significant distance. Tabaxi can climb up walls. Tabaxi have claws. Tabaxi are freaking intimidating looking to almost ANY child. They might try to run but as soon as the Tabaxi grabs them they are probably going to give up before the claws rip into their arm or leg. You might have the kid squirm loose the first time but there won't be a second time. The Tabaxi should have felt no need to shoot the child in the back to prevent their escape ... they can EASILY outrun the child and since the child has already screamed ... shooting them isn't going to change that.
The only reason the Tabaxi might have had for shooting the child would be the belief that they were about to escape, which would be a narrative issue on the DMs part since, in my opionion, with a Tabaxi at least, escape should be pretty much impossible in this situation.
As for sending the child to the town master or manor ... assuming that they are in a town, during the day or early evening, then there were likely a LOT of witnesses to what happened outside the bar on the porch. Someone is very likely to have already informed various authorities of what was going on so sending the child as a plot device really wasn't necessary in the first place.
Fair point and I probably did not handle it the best. However I did tell them that part of town was fairly thin because of the redbrand presence there were very few people wandering around the street in that section and those that were mostly kept to themselves to stay out of the way of the redbrands.
I noticed you warned the player out of game about alignment issues with this type of action and the player essentially blew that off. That's a great interaction right there. It teaches you something as a DM: it is ineffective to try to manage in game behaviour with out of game warnings. Players often decide what's the best result and justify the characters actions later, you cant really fix that with talking, got a roll with it.
To answer your question, have guards and townsfolk come to investigate the screams. A child has been shot in the back. The killer better be ready to flee, lie, or fight. Plan out and execute a reasonable set of responses by your NPCs and DON'T WORRY about how the players will get out of trouble or how it will screw up the plot or anything else. The PCs will figure something out and maybe they made their life way more complicated. Good. THAT will make the player think twice next time, nothing else.
Have you actually confirmed in game that the child is dead? It may be a recoverable situation, if they want to do that.
Another thing to raise: Who's kid was it. Even if the Tabaxi gets away with it, they're hardly likely to forgive and forget in a hurry. But yeah, definitely a semi hostile town now. Prices will go up, if they're even traded with at all. Finding accommodation will be tough. The town guard will investigate, possibly arrest, and you can be sure that some of the Factions won't extend any sort of offer to them at all.
Have you actually confirmed in game that the child is dead? It may be a recoverable situation, if they want to do that.
Another thing to raise: Who's kid was it. Even if the Tabaxi gets away with it, they're hardly likely to forgive and forget in a hurry. But yeah, definitely a semi hostile town now. Prices will go up, if they're even traded with at all. Finding accommodation will be tough. The town guard will investigate, possibly arrest, and you can be sure that some of the Factions won't extend any sort of offer to them at all.
We have not got that far. I do not know if they are going to check him or not. I am not even sure the Tabaxi is going to tell anyone to be honest.
That opens things up a lot. And it really depends what happens from here. The kid's still alive. Does the Tabaxi check? Does he question him? Does he finish him off? Does someone else from the group investigate the scream and investigates? Do they take him to a healer, or heal him themselves? Sky's the limit.
A local kid gets shot in the back. There are strangers in town. Even if one of the PC’s wasn’t responsible, it is likely that the blame might fall on them.
First, make sure the PC really understood the situation and that there wasn’t serious disconnect between what he thought was happening and what you were trying to present. If the PC misunderstood, wind the clock back and try it again. If the PC understood the situation and stands by it, then the entire town is going to be against them and they are not going to give the party a fair fight. The best the party could do is make the townspeople so afraid of them that do nothing overt but they might try poisoning them, burning the party in their room at the inn, or something similar.
Thank you all for your help. Session is tonight so we will see where it goes. I am going to give him the option to rewind a few seconds and re play out the scene. If not the Owner is his mother and will come out when he hears the scream and will take the boy to the town master. That is unless the players decide to try to get him back up or hide him or something like that.
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I may have created a situation, but I did not think one of my players would do this.
I have a campaign I am running on the western continent of Anchorome. Trying to keep it distant from the primary story stuff but still be able to pull from it. I am using the Mines of Phandelver as a intro to lead them into a storyline.
So, the players get to Phandolin and everything goes fine, the catch on to investigate the Redbrands. So they investigate the bar they hang out with, they get surrounded by the 4 hanging out on the porch and end up in a fight, they kill all 4 before one can get away. So they go inside and talk to the owner, she is gruff and doesnt want them there, but is not hostile. Only one player goes inside, 3 are out front and one is off to the side behind a building down the road a bit and was attacking at range, staying there looking out while the 1st player went in.
During the conversation the owner whispered something to a kid and had them run out the back. Basically to go communicate what happened to either the manor or the the town master since they have him fairly well intimidated. The player on the lookout sees the kid and tries to tackle him. He gets away screams and the player shoots the kid in the back with his bow.
That is where we left off. I am not sure how to handle this. I told him there was no way you could know what that kid was doing. I told him there is no way this aligns as a neutral good, he said Oh I thought I was neutral.
This is a fairly problematic player anyways he argues the most and wants to rule lawyer the most. This is the first game I have ever DMed long term and I just need some help trying to figure out how to handle the situation both in the context of the town as well as with this player. He is a Tabaxi rogue who is an outcast but has been observing the other races for a while.
His action, shooting the kid, is a bit on the aggressive side but not unwarranted. It is not uncommon for children to be part of thieves' guilds, used as spies, etc. and as a rogue the Tabaxi would be aware of this concept. He attempted to subdue the child, the child ran, he reacted by attacking what was perceived as a threat. It is also, not evil/bad if you consider it from this point of view. I would look at the player and comment that, "As a rogue, killing may be necessary but drawing attention to yourself by killing is bad for business. Make sure you take into account the consequences of killing someone before you know their intentions, it may not always be the best course of action."
The town, on the other hand, is not going to be happy with the death. They will probably not understand this reasoning since it's not something that they would think of naturally. There is a chance that the Tabaxi may get away with it since the Red Brand are a threat. There is a chance that the Tabaxi will be caught if there was a witness. As well, the information that the child was to deliver has now been lost. From here you move the story forward with this situation affecting it. How will the town react to a dead/missing child? How will the lack of information affect the Town master? How does this affect the Red Brands, if they're implicated for the dead/missing child? How does this affect the party if they are implicated for the dead/missing child? These are the questions you'll need to ask as you get to your next session.
What I don't understand is how the child could possibly get away. The tabaxi can sprint and catch pretty much anyone before they run any significant distance. Tabaxi can climb up walls. Tabaxi have claws. Tabaxi are freaking intimidating looking to almost ANY child. They might try to run but as soon as the Tabaxi grabs them they are probably going to give up before the claws rip into their arm or leg. You might have the kid squirm loose the first time but there won't be a second time. The Tabaxi should have felt no need to shoot the child in the back to prevent their escape ... they can EASILY outrun the child and since the child has already screamed ... shooting them isn't going to change that.
The only reason the Tabaxi might have had for shooting the child would be the belief that they were about to escape, which would be a narrative issue on the DMs part since, in my opionion, with a Tabaxi at least, escape should be pretty much impossible in this situation.
As for sending the child to the town master or manor ... assuming that they are in a town, during the day or early evening, then there were likely a LOT of witnesses to what happened outside the bar on the porch. Someone is very likely to have already informed various authorities of what was going on so sending the child as a plot device really wasn't necessary in the first place.
These were things I was considering, just trying to figure out how to do it. Thanks for the questions to try to ask and answer for myself.
Fair point and I probably did not handle it the best. However I did tell them that part of town was fairly thin because of the redbrand presence there were very few people wandering around the street in that section and those that were mostly kept to themselves to stay out of the way of the redbrands.
I noticed you warned the player out of game about alignment issues with this type of action and the player essentially blew that off. That's a great interaction right there. It teaches you something as a DM: it is ineffective to try to manage in game behaviour with out of game warnings. Players often decide what's the best result and justify the characters actions later, you cant really fix that with talking, got a roll with it.
To answer your question, have guards and townsfolk come to investigate the screams. A child has been shot in the back. The killer better be ready to flee, lie, or fight. Plan out and execute a reasonable set of responses by your NPCs and DON'T WORRY about how the players will get out of trouble or how it will screw up the plot or anything else. The PCs will figure something out and maybe they made their life way more complicated. Good. THAT will make the player think twice next time, nothing else.
Have you actually confirmed in game that the child is dead? It may be a recoverable situation, if they want to do that.
Another thing to raise: Who's kid was it. Even if the Tabaxi gets away with it, they're hardly likely to forgive and forget in a hurry. But yeah, definitely a semi hostile town now. Prices will go up, if they're even traded with at all. Finding accommodation will be tough. The town guard will investigate, possibly arrest, and you can be sure that some of the Factions won't extend any sort of offer to them at all.
We have not got that far. I do not know if they are going to check him or not. I am not even sure the Tabaxi is going to tell anyone to be honest.
That opens things up a lot. And it really depends what happens from here. The kid's still alive. Does the Tabaxi check? Does he question him? Does he finish him off? Does someone else from the group investigate the scream and investigates? Do they take him to a healer, or heal him themselves? Sky's the limit.
A local kid gets shot in the back. There are strangers in town. Even if one of the PC’s wasn’t responsible, it is likely that the blame might fall on them.
First, make sure the PC really understood the situation and that there wasn’t serious disconnect between what he thought was happening and what you were trying to present. If the PC misunderstood, wind the clock back and try it again. If the PC understood the situation and stands by it, then the entire town is going to be against them and they are not going to give the party a fair fight. The best the party could do is make the townspeople so afraid of them that do nothing overt but they might try poisoning them, burning the party in their room at the inn, or something similar.
Thank you all for your help. Session is tonight so we will see where it goes. I am going to give him the option to rewind a few seconds and re play out the scene. If not the Owner is his mother and will come out when he hears the scream and will take the boy to the town master. That is unless the players decide to try to get him back up or hide him or something like that.