I'm a new-ish DM and I am currently hosting an Eberron campaign. I decided to let one of my players DM for the Encounter of the Week Sharkfin Shipwreck so I could play for once. All was going well until we realized that the lead Sahuagin was carrying a Trident of Fish Command. Our Level 3 Rouge decided to get it at any cost, whereas the rest of us decided that whoever killed on the Sahuagin would get the trident. The player who ended up getting the kill was a brand new party member, a Level 2 Druid. The Rouge offered him 100 GP for the trident, but when the offer was refused, the Rouge hit the Druid with his greatsword. The other two party members, me (a Level 2 Wizard) and a Level 2 Fighter, tried to come to his defense but we were at fairly low health and after knocking us all unconscious, the rouge ended up at 1 HP, whereon the other Sahuagin woke up from my wizard's Sleep spell at nearly half health. The only thing that saved us all from dying was that the player I had let be the DM, allowed/forced the druid to take the 100 GP deal with the bonus of giving half health to us unconscious folks. This experience completely ruined what I want out of playing and DMing D&D. What can I do to make sure this kind of PvP doesn't ever happen again, without curtailing my players' roleplaying? The rouge has the highest level out of our party so we can't fight him to make him stop, and he's a Changeling, so we can't catch him to throw in jail. I am scared that this might ruin the campaign for several of us so please help!
1.No Magic Item: The squabbles end up destroying the item. Ex: As they grapple for the weapon, have a character make a DEX save. They drop the trident into a gorge, or accidentally break it, rendering it useless
2. Attracting Attention: As the party fights for the weapon, a 3rd party finds them and wants the weapon. Ex. There could be a wandering Archmage who wants it for his collection, or a band of sahuagin looking for a sacrifice to their god.
3. Faulty Magic Item: After the magic item is retrieved, it seems to not work properly. Ex. The Trident of Fish Command doesn't make fish obey your commands, instead it makes them hostile and attack you, transforming any fish into a piranha (that was under the influence of the item).
It's never too late for a session 0. It's also a bad idea (in my opinion) to have pc's with significantly different levels. Or like Giblix said, just let it play out then start all over again. Well done, you got your trident, your party is dead, now you're dead. You idiot. Did everyone bring blank character sheets?
You could always just have the rogue drop dead. He could be caught and imprisoned by bounty hunters who were seeking him for something he did in the past. The others all made good suggestions. It depends on how heavy handed you want to be. I would find out if anything had been said between the rogue and the temp DM. Perhaps just bring up that such behavior is not acceptable and will be punished moving forward, assuming that such boundaries weren't established previously. And as punishment, the rogue is not eligible to receive any magic items for a while. Any other one shots, set up the expectation with the temp dm that such behavior should not be tolerated.
You know the group, you'll be able to make the best judgment about what will be effective and what won't. Perhaps have a side chat with the rogue. Perhaps you'll be able to work out an acceptable solution between you.
I'm a new-ish DM and I am currently hosting an Eberron campaign. I decided to let one of my players DM for the Encounter of the Week Sharkfin Shipwreck so I could play for once. All was going well until we realized that the lead Sahuagin was carrying a Trident of Fish Command. Our Level 3 Rouge decided to get it at any cost, whereas the rest of us decided that whoever killed on the Sahuagin would get the trident. The player who ended up getting the kill was a brand new party member, a Level 2 Druid. The Rouge offered him 100 GP for the trident, but when the offer was refused, the Rouge hit the Druid with his greatsword. The other two party members, me (a Level 2 Wizard) and a Level 2 Fighter, tried to come to his defense but we were at fairly low health and after knocking us all unconscious, the rouge ended up at 1 HP, whereon the other Sahuagin woke up from my wizard's Sleep spell at nearly half health. The only thing that saved us all from dying was that the player I had let be the DM, allowed/forced the druid to take the 100 GP deal with the bonus of giving half health to us unconscious folks. This experience completely ruined what I want out of playing and DMing D&D. What can I do to make sure this kind of PvP doesn't ever happen again, without curtailing my players' roleplaying? The rouge has the highest level out of our party so we can't fight him to make him stop, and he's a Changeling, so we can't catch him to throw in jail. I am scared that this might ruin the campaign for several of us so please help!
I have a rule in my campaign where nobody trust each other for some reason that you can start a fight, BUT both players have to be sure that they are willing to do this. And they both are fully aware of the possibility of being killed, plus we have a paladin. (And if one of them dies I will have to turn to the paladin and ask her what she does.) So if they are both fully aware of that they can roll initiative against each other. So say if one player says: "I cast disintergrate on her!". I ask the targeted player if she is willing to fight, and I ask the attacker if he is also completely sure of this. If they both agree the spell doesn't take effect, but isn't wasted either. And they roll initiative. Because the first 2 sessions we played our rogue threatend 3 PCs, which is fine, and tried to kill one of the PCs toward the end of the 2nd session. So therefore I had to make that rule.
Later on when they are better experienced and have played through more together I might lift the rule. You gotta make sure that if a player wants to fight another player that they are good friends and know each other and love the game and nothing will happen. Because if it's like a brand new player, he might not be into PvP, and that can really kill a game. When my rogue tried to attack our sorcerer for the first time I asked him if he was sure. And he was, then I asked the sorcerer if she was sure, and added that both of them had the chance to lose a character, and have to make a new one if they wanted to keep playing. And the rogue immediately after that backed down.
I also at times leave it up to role playing. If it doesn't fit the character they made I will notify that their behavior is not matching their character, and that it can/will affect them. My fighter didn't go and help the rogue in the first session, and when combat started he waited 2 rounds before he engaged in combat. So I told him that his alignment was shifting toward Chaotic Neutral. Not switching and not like 25% of the way but just that his actions were noted. I have plans that the more chaotic the fighter gets the more of his insanity from his backstory comes back.
But tbh. If that had happened in my game, I would have told the rogue that he doesn't take out his sword and swing. Of course if it would have been within his alignment and his personality I might have allowed a part of it, but else I would have told him that he doesn't swing his greatsword at the druid. And if he asked why I would have told him because that it's a newer player. Not many DM's do that I think, at least from what I heared. I must admit I don't like doing it because I value my players freedom a lot. But sometimes you have to draw a line. And that's okay! If you feel like that a "player" actions and not his character, then it's fine to tell him that it doesn't fit the character he made, and if he is sure then it might effect him later on. If he kills the druid to get the staff but if he can't answer why his character would do it, or if he hasn't acted like this before or will act similar in the near future then that's where you as a DM can tell him that then his character wouldn't do it.
Sorry if I just said the same thing 4-5 times. And sorry that it's long. Hope it helps! ^^
This experience completely ruined what I want out of playing and DMing D&D. What can I do to make sure this kind of PvP doesn't ever happen again, without curtailing my players' roleplaying?
In 4e, Organized Play had an explicit rule that you could not attack another player (or include them in a damaging area of effect) unless you had their permission. This type courtesy is still part of Organized play even today, and many groups use it (even if they are not part of Adventurers League).
I'm a new-ish DM and I am currently hosting an Eberron campaign. I decided to let one of my players DM for the Encounter of the Week Sharkfin Shipwreck so I could play for once. All was going well until we realized that the lead Sahuagin was carrying a Trident of Fish Command. Our Level 3 Rouge decided to get it at any cost, whereas the rest of us decided that whoever killed on the Sahuagin would get the trident. The player who ended up getting the kill was a brand new party member, a Level 2 Druid. The Rouge offered him 100 GP for the trident, but when the offer was refused, the Rouge hit the Druid with his greatsword. The other two party members, me (a Level 2 Wizard) and a Level 2 Fighter, tried to come to his defense but we were at fairly low health and after knocking us all unconscious, the rouge ended up at 1 HP, whereon the other Sahuagin woke up from my wizard's Sleep spell at nearly half health. The only thing that saved us all from dying was that the player I had let be the DM, allowed/forced the druid to take the 100 GP deal with the bonus of giving half health to us unconscious folks. This experience completely ruined what I want out of playing and DMing D&D. What can I do to make sure this kind of PvP doesn't ever happen again, without curtailing my players' roleplaying? The rouge has the highest level out of our party so we can't fight him to make him stop, and he's a Changeling, so we can't catch him to throw in jail. I am scared that this might ruin the campaign for several of us so please help!
There are 3 things you can do:
1. No Magic Item: The squabbles end up destroying the item. Ex: As they grapple for the weapon, have a character make a DEX save. They drop the trident into a gorge, or accidentally break it, rendering it useless
2. Attracting Attention: As the party fights for the weapon, a 3rd party finds them and wants the weapon. Ex. There could be a wandering Archmage who wants it for his collection, or a band of sahuagin looking for a sacrifice to their god.
3. Faulty Magic Item: After the magic item is retrieved, it seems to not work properly. Ex. The Trident of Fish Command doesn't make fish obey your commands, instead it makes them hostile and attack you, transforming any fish into a piranha (that was under the influence of the item).
I hope one of these works. Happy DMing!
it's been a long time...
that's what session 0 is for to make agreements, set expectations, have social "Contract" if it has to come to that.
i would've just let it play out. even if it led to a complete TPK. players would learn, dm would learn, new start with a proper session 0.
It's never too late for a session 0. It's also a bad idea (in my opinion) to have pc's with significantly different levels. Or like Giblix said, just let it play out then start all over again. Well done, you got your trident, your party is dead, now you're dead. You idiot. Did everyone bring blank character sheets?
You could always just have the rogue drop dead. He could be caught and imprisoned by bounty hunters who were seeking him for something he did in the past. The others all made good suggestions. It depends on how heavy handed you want to be. I would find out if anything had been said between the rogue and the temp DM. Perhaps just bring up that such behavior is not acceptable and will be punished moving forward, assuming that such boundaries weren't established previously. And as punishment, the rogue is not eligible to receive any magic items for a while. Any other one shots, set up the expectation with the temp dm that such behavior should not be tolerated.
You know the group, you'll be able to make the best judgment about what will be effective and what won't. Perhaps have a side chat with the rogue. Perhaps you'll be able to work out an acceptable solution between you.
I have a rule in my campaign where nobody trust each other for some reason that you can start a fight, BUT both players have to be sure that they are willing to do this.
And they both are fully aware of the possibility of being killed, plus we have a paladin. (And if one of them dies I will have to turn to the paladin and ask her what she does.)
So if they are both fully aware of that they can roll initiative against each other. So say if one player says: "I cast disintergrate on her!". I ask the targeted player if she is willing to fight,
and I ask the attacker if he is also completely sure of this. If they both agree the spell doesn't take effect, but isn't wasted either. And they roll initiative. Because the first 2 sessions we played our rogue threatend 3 PCs, which is fine, and tried to kill one of the PCs toward the end of the 2nd session. So therefore I had to make that rule.
Later on when they are better experienced and have played through more together I might lift the rule. You gotta make sure that if a player wants to fight another player that they are good friends and know each other and love the game and nothing will happen. Because if it's like a brand new player, he might not be into PvP, and that can really kill a game.
When my rogue tried to attack our sorcerer for the first time I asked him if he was sure. And he was, then I asked the sorcerer if she was sure, and added that both of them had the chance to lose a character, and have to make a new one if they wanted to keep playing. And the rogue immediately after that backed down.
I also at times leave it up to role playing. If it doesn't fit the character they made I will notify that their behavior is not matching their character, and that it can/will affect them.
My fighter didn't go and help the rogue in the first session, and when combat started he waited 2 rounds before he engaged in combat. So I told him that his alignment was shifting toward Chaotic Neutral. Not switching and not like 25% of the way but just that his actions were noted. I have plans that the more chaotic the fighter gets the more of his insanity from his backstory comes back.
But tbh. If that had happened in my game, I would have told the rogue that he doesn't take out his sword and swing. Of course if it would have been within his alignment and his personality I might have allowed a part of it, but else I would have told him that he doesn't swing his greatsword at the druid. And if he asked why I would have told him because that it's a newer player. Not many DM's do that I think, at least from what I heared. I must admit I don't like doing it because I value my players freedom a lot. But sometimes you have to draw a line. And that's okay! If you feel like that a "player" actions and not his character, then it's fine to tell him that it doesn't fit the character he made, and if he is sure then it might effect him later on. If he kills the druid to get the staff but if he can't answer why his character would do it, or if he hasn't acted like this before or will act similar in the near future then that's where you as a DM can tell him that then his character wouldn't do it.
Sorry if I just said the same thing 4-5 times. And sorry that it's long. Hope it helps! ^^
The Rogue sounds like a wangrod. Want to know how to avoid this in the future, don't let him play.
#OPENDND
In 4e, Organized Play had an explicit rule that you could not attack another player (or include them in a damaging area of effect) unless you had their permission. This type courtesy is still part of Organized play even today, and many groups use it (even if they are not part of Adventurers League).
Thanks so much for the support guys! You are the best!
also, sounds like you found the new bbeg for the campaign.