Short intro, I'm a beginning DM for D&D 5e. I'm from the Netherlands (so pardon me for any poor English) and have a family but also I have a long history of fantasy minded games. Both computer and table! First one I can remember being Hero Quest on the table, Ultima on the PC. Hitting puberty I was very much into computers and got hooked on Blizzard games and Wizard games like Magic and Warhammer. So back to now, I have been playing D&D with a couple of friends but they got a little bored interacting only amonst the 2 of them and stopped playing for a while. I was running Out of the Abyss and I really liked it. So I took initiative and rounded up some additional players using facebook - I wasn't fully aware at that moment D&D is really gaining popularity again and DM's are in popular demand. I got a good response and set-up a one-shot in a local shop which ended up with 7 players.
I never ran a one-shot so I started you-tubing some vids for tips on managing this short timeframe, new, unfamiliar players and the fact that it's a really short story. It ended up being a one-shot that also serves as an introduction to the Storm King's Thunder - which we intend to run with the group - mixed with a homebrew caravan setting and a Giant attack.
This took place august 1st and the players really had a good time, I received many compliments on running the game however - self-critical as I am - I thought it could have went a lot better. I didn't find these learnings up-front and so I'd like to share them, maybe it's standard DM learnings but I'd still like to see if you recognize any of these:
- I experience that people who don't know each other are playing on the 'safe' side, with the role-playing but also in taking freedom to interact with their environment. They were really depending on me to tell them what's happening. I prepared a lot of mechanics, but as I do normally it's up to them what happens. The result: a whole caravan, a couple of NPC’s, a bunch of mechanics all where not used. My learning is that I can dial down on preparing the early game setting OR must cause them to interact somehow. Too much freedom and they just sit and wait it out.
- One thing I got from you-tube multiple times is that the one-shot must be 'fast' and 'full of action' - actually after running it I have to disagree. Yes you need action, yes you should keep a good pace BUT this also causes the game to be quite shallow. Next one-shot for me I will probably create a setting where they have some time to plot and strategize how to approach the situation or the monster.
- Also, more a personal mistake I would say, is that I spent a lot of time on: the questhook, the story, the setting, the connection to the main story etc. that I completely forgot to look into the details of each monster. So I had the statblocks in front of me but forgot to look into the details of the spells and mechanics, causing me to wing-it on the spot. As I only have a few years of experience, I don't know everything and I failed to play and describe the monsters to the level that would have made the combat way more 'deadly' and lifelike.
- Most you-tube video's also describe to manage your time. But still you must make some estimations. My learning was I over-estimated the amount of time used for role-playing - as people are still a bit shy - and underestimated the time combat rounds take. With 7 players all taking 1 - 3 minutes to finish their turn a combat rounds easily takes 10-15 minutes, depending on the monsters, surroundings, mechanics etc. A combat taking 5-10 rounds therefore easily takes more then an hour and a half. I totally underestimated the effect of having so many players. One of the things I'm thinking about is (for one-shots only) reducing the number of monsters, surroundings etcetera to limit interactions besides moving and combat, although I feel conflicted because that's exactly the big advantage of D&D being so free format. If you have any tips let me know.
- For combat rounds I used the calculator to determine the encounter difficulty, 7 players level 3 versus an Invisible stalker CR6 shows up as 'medium' although in reality players just can't hit it, and the stalker was able to knock players unconscious with a single round of hits. I trusted on this calculator a bit too much and almost wiped the party, next time I will keep in mind to do a sanity check on the monsters abilities compared to the players ability to hit and damage it.
- I liked the one-shot to be shared after using it and so I put into a nice fancy Word file with text boxes and side bars and everything - now I learned all this I need to rewrite the whole thing. Oohhhh noes! What a waste of time! So this time I will not re-write it but use what I have and run it again and again until it's balanced to the level I want before investing efforts to publish it.
- And don't let players use their other markers to draw on your battlemat! Ohhh noooo! It stains us! Arghh.
Let me know if you recognize any of these learnings and if you have some golden tips for me, please share! :)
CR in this edition can be very swingy. An intellect devourer might put a lv3 character pretty much out of the game by reducing their intellect to 0, for instance.
- I experience that people who don't know each other are playing on the 'safe' side, with the role-playing but also in taking freedom to interact with their environment. They were really depending on me to tell them what's happening. [...] Too much freedom and they just sit and wait it out.
These kind of things will iron themselves out as the game goes on. A few advices on engaging players:
- Do the first step. For instance, if the PCs are looking for someone, a player might say "I go to the tavern and ask the barkeep if he's seen anyone fitting the description", i would usually tell the player "well, then ask him" and push to start the RP. This, in my experience, doesn't work. Now what I do is this:
* player says he goes to the barkeep to asks if he's seen someone
* I describe the tavern, I describe the barkeep doing something, and I start RPing the encounter, with the barkeep greeting him.
* Spontaneously, the player replies to the barkeep instead of trying to describe the conversation.
You tricked them into RPing the encounter, they didn't even notice, but since they stated their intent first, you can start thinking about what the barkeep might know or not know.
- Pay them for doing what you want them to do. Don't pay them for doing what you don't want them to do. If a player is engaging in clumsy RP, reward him. It'll encourage him to try again. If a player is trying to circumvent a RP encounter, let's say, by using magic to read the NPC's mind instead of just asking, punish him for failure. It doesn't have to be anything huge, but if we keep the previous example, maybe the barkeep suceeded on his saving throw, or maybe someone saw him cast his spell, and he gets kicked out of the tavern.
- Talk to your players, and tell them openly what you expect of them. Sometimes I open a gaming session by saying "well, today will be very RP-oriented guys", so they get in the mindset and get ready. Or a more general "I wish you would engage with NPC more, and treat them like people, and not just info sources". Which, again, an NPC getting well treated could spontaneously deliver some info as a thank you, whereas a PC whow they always visit only for info might end up getting offended and feeling used. Reward good player behaviour, "punish" "bad" player behaviour.
- I prepared a lot of mechanics, but as I do normally it's up to them what happens. The result: a whole caravan, a couple of NPC’s, a bunch of mechanics all where not used. My learning is that I can dial down on preparing the early game setting OR must cause them to interact somehow. Too much freedom and they just sit and wait it out.
The secret of every DM: 50% of your preparation will go to the trash at every session.
But here's the even better secret though: you can recycle anything you didn't use.
I once designed a trap that I really liked. Sadly, the PC didn't trip it, because they didn't go to the place. Well, no problem, this trap will simply appear somewhere else. A cool NPC they didn't get to meet ? Well, let me reuse him somewhere else instead!
- One thing I got from you-tube multiple times is that the one-shot must be 'fast' and 'full of action' - actually after running it I have to disagree. Yes you need action, yes you should keep a good pace BUT this also causes the game to be quite shallow. Next one-shot for me I will probably create a setting where they have some time to plot and strategize how to approach the situation or the monster.
Honestly, if it's a one-shot, I just want to play with my funny toys: cast spells, swing my axe, defeat stuff. So I would agree with that advice. Sure, it's not as satisfying as a DM, because we don't get to play with our toys as much, but players with a new character usually just want to play with their new stuff.
Don't worry if you don't know every rule. Chances are, neither do your players, and they won't know when you're making it up. If you ever do mess up a rule big time, hopefully one of your experienced players will patiently tell you. I had no idea what to expect when I prepared my first one shot, and while I did feel I made things a bit too difficult during the final boss (I added Dark Souls skeletons, I didn't think the cleric would fail that many saves in one turn), things still ran smoothly, and everyone had fun.
Also, if you want to encourage roleplay in a one shot, keep in mind that the nature of a one shot does make that a little tough (since you're not going to be seeing any of these people ever again, it's hard to get attached to any personalities), you can do it. One thing I did was have a group of duergar who had useful information for the party. They were hostile, but they also didn't want to start a fight right away, as they were holed up at the time and running low on supplies. So, the players could have just kicked their barricades down and fought them (one of my players, playing a dwarf, outright said that once they dealt with the main threat, they were going back to do just that), but it was also immediately clear that these duergar had helpful information. So, the party agreed to leave if the duergar told them what they wanted to know about the area (unfortunately, they didn't roll high enough for the duergar to warn them about a spirit naga in a nearby temple). I had no idea when I designed this encounter how it would go. I knew that I had a few possible murderhobos, but I also made sure to start the encounter with the duergar hiding and a few yelling to go away, setting the tone that not fighting was an option.
Thanks for these tips, mainly on the role-playing and how to involve players. I am definatly going to use this to pull in my players towards the campaign story and RP'ing in that. For the one-shot what I read between the lines is that I should let go of the desire to RP more, I find it difficult as I think 'new players' wouldn't get the full experience of what it means to play the game. Then again, I understand your arguments on this.
Would you think that when I turn it around, so playing with your character, defeating some monsters, getting some loot and then add in the role-playing, would make it better in a one-shot setting with new players? Or would it just be a dull ending.
What I'm thinking off is ending the game with a cliff-hanger. Either they are accused of murdering the monsters they just slayed, or there are clues they need to put together as they discover a big plot that will 'change history!' or there is some traps, puzzles they need to collaborate on to get to the loot - something like that I'm still brainstorming.
My goal is to put together a one-shot which is accessible to anyone, interesting for all and gives a good idea of the whole D&D game.
This is common with new table top roleplayers, they aren't sure yet what they "can" do so they are still learning what is possible. This improves both as they play longer, and get comfortable with each other and you. You can gently drop hints and suggestions about potential interactions, as well as use NPC's and events to have interactions present themselves or even come to the players, without it being railroading. Sometimes some things in modules are stones left unturned, its ok.
A one shot that is ONLY a one shot yes, because that's all it is, but one that is an introduction to a larger campaign with a group that will keep playing regularly, as you noted, not necessarily.
Handling monsters in combat improves with experience, also tools that make it easier to get at their stat blocks can help. I am a fan of ******** online, but there are others, see if any of those can help at least with bookkeeping in combat.
You have a large party, 7 people is quite a few, so some things, like combat especially, are just going to take longer. Compound that with the players being new, so needing more time to assess their options, and its just going to be a growing pain that things will take some extra time. Once they get more proficient in taking actions in combat, it will improve.
When you say can't hit it, do you mean they couldn't find it? Because 5E deals with invisible on its own simply conveying disadvantage to the attack roll, the stalker would still need to hide in order to be hard to detect (perception checks) which would end everytime it attacked. If you mean they couldn't hit because of disadvantage, then that's as intended. Also all CR calculations are best estimates, and a very high CR to level difference can make it hard for players to deal with raw higher values on things like AC, HP, and damage output. Consider using more lower CR monsters instead of a single really high CR monster, as that could end up being more like a boss fight for them, at least in the lower tier of play.
Makes sense, iron it out and refine it before finalizing and publishing. Agree.
Ouch, a tough lesson to learn, one I think we all have. Also recognize that some mats respond well to dry erase, others to wet erase.
In short, it sounds like a solid first game. Most of the issues you described are simply learning the game, and will correct themselves as you and your party get more proficient and gain more experience with the game. The only hard obstacle you are dealing with is a nearly double large party, so some of your time constraints will always feel that, but it isn't insurmountable, it just requires understanding and patience for that fact from everyone involved. Good luck!
Thanks for these tips, mainly on the role-playing and how to involve players. I am definatly going to use this to pull in my players towards the campaign story and RP'ing in that. For the one-shot what I read between the lines is that I should let go of the desire to RP more, I find it difficult as I think 'new players' wouldn't get the full experience of what it means to play the game. Then again, I understand your arguments on this.
Would you think that when I turn it around, so playing with your character, defeating some monsters, getting some loot and then add in the role-playing, would make it better in a one-shot setting with new players? Or would it just be a dull ending.
What I'm thinking off is ending the game with a cliff-hanger. Either they are accused of murdering the monsters they just slayed, or there are clues they need to put together as they discover a big plot that will 'change history!' or there is some traps, puzzles they need to collaborate on to get to the loot - something like that I'm still brainstorming.
My goal is to put together a one-shot which is accessible to anyone, interesting for all and gives a good idea of the whole D&D game.
One thing I keep in mind with 5e is that it's built around 3 pillars: combat, exploration, RP. There needs to be a balance between the three.
For a one-shot that's really just a one-and-done where you throw your character sheets afterwards, I feel like RP encounters need to be of a different nature: maybe you can roleplay your way out of a combat encounter, or maybe your players are going to go to a dungeon to get a treasure, and they meet a guy that's just leaving because he gave up, and they could try to convince him to spill what he encountered, so they can avoid the first trap (but he might not be entirely willing to give that info, since he might be thinking of coming back with help). My point is that RP encounters in a one-shot need to be immediatly rewarded, if it's just info dump or quest giving, players won't be as involved.
In a campaign, these things can be balanced differently. You can have a session that's really just combat, or only RP, but you should try and keep this in mind. It gives different characters different ways to shine: sure, the barbarian can swing that greataxe like no other, but he could also track someone through the woods, with the ranger foraging for food at night as the wizard create a magical safe zone to sleep in.
Hi Guys,
Short intro, I'm a beginning DM for D&D 5e. I'm from the Netherlands (so pardon me for any poor English) and have a family but also I have a long history of fantasy minded games. Both computer and table! First one I can remember being Hero Quest on the table, Ultima on the PC. Hitting puberty I was very much into computers and got hooked on Blizzard games and Wizard games like Magic and Warhammer. So back to now, I have been playing D&D with a couple of friends but they got a little bored interacting only amonst the 2 of them and stopped playing for a while. I was running Out of the Abyss and I really liked it. So I took initiative and rounded up some additional players using facebook - I wasn't fully aware at that moment D&D is really gaining popularity again and DM's are in popular demand. I got a good response and set-up a one-shot in a local shop which ended up with 7 players.
I never ran a one-shot so I started you-tubing some vids for tips on managing this short timeframe, new, unfamiliar players and the fact that it's a really short story. It ended up being a one-shot that also serves as an introduction to the Storm King's Thunder - which we intend to run with the group - mixed with a homebrew caravan setting and a Giant attack.
This took place august 1st and the players really had a good time, I received many compliments on running the game however - self-critical as I am - I thought it could have went a lot better. I didn't find these learnings up-front and so I'd like to share them, maybe it's standard DM learnings but I'd still like to see if you recognize any of these:
- I experience that people who don't know each other are playing on the 'safe' side, with the role-playing but also in taking freedom to interact with their environment. They were really depending on me to tell them what's happening. I prepared a lot of mechanics, but as I do normally it's up to them what happens. The result: a whole caravan, a couple of NPC’s, a bunch of mechanics all where not used. My learning is that I can dial down on preparing the early game setting OR must cause them to interact somehow. Too much freedom and they just sit and wait it out.
- One thing I got from you-tube multiple times is that the one-shot must be 'fast' and 'full of action' - actually after running it I have to disagree. Yes you need action, yes you should keep a good pace BUT this also causes the game to be quite shallow. Next one-shot for me I will probably create a setting where they have some time to plot and strategize how to approach the situation or the monster.
- Also, more a personal mistake I would say, is that I spent a lot of time on: the questhook, the story, the setting, the connection to the main story etc. that I completely forgot to look into the details of each monster. So I had the statblocks in front of me but forgot to look into the details of the spells and mechanics, causing me to wing-it on the spot. As I only have a few years of experience, I don't know everything and I failed to play and describe the monsters to the level that would have made the combat way more 'deadly' and lifelike.
- Most you-tube video's also describe to manage your time. But still you must make some estimations. My learning was I over-estimated the amount of time used for role-playing - as people are still a bit shy - and underestimated the time combat rounds take. With 7 players all taking 1 - 3 minutes to finish their turn a combat rounds easily takes 10-15 minutes, depending on the monsters, surroundings, mechanics etc. A combat taking 5-10 rounds therefore easily takes more then an hour and a half. I totally underestimated the effect of having so many players. One of the things I'm thinking about is (for one-shots only) reducing the number of monsters, surroundings etcetera to limit interactions besides moving and combat, although I feel conflicted because that's exactly the big advantage of D&D being so free format. If you have any tips let me know.
- For combat rounds I used the calculator to determine the encounter difficulty, 7 players level 3 versus an Invisible stalker CR6 shows up as 'medium' although in reality players just can't hit it, and the stalker was able to knock players unconscious with a single round of hits. I trusted on this calculator a bit too much and almost wiped the party, next time I will keep in mind to do a sanity check on the monsters abilities compared to the players ability to hit and damage it.
- I liked the one-shot to be shared after using it and so I put into a nice fancy Word file with text boxes and side bars and everything - now I learned all this I need to rewrite the whole thing. Oohhhh noes! What a waste of time! So this time I will not re-write it but use what I have and run it again and again until it's balanced to the level I want before investing efforts to publish it.
- And don't let players use their other markers to draw on your battlemat! Ohhh noooo! It stains us! Arghh.
Let me know if you recognize any of these learnings and if you have some golden tips for me, please share! :)
CR in this edition can be very swingy. An intellect devourer might put a lv3 character pretty much out of the game by reducing their intellect to 0, for instance.
These kind of things will iron themselves out as the game goes on. A few advices on engaging players:
- Do the first step. For instance, if the PCs are looking for someone, a player might say "I go to the tavern and ask the barkeep if he's seen anyone fitting the description", i would usually tell the player "well, then ask him" and push to start the RP. This, in my experience, doesn't work. Now what I do is this:
* player says he goes to the barkeep to asks if he's seen someone
* I describe the tavern, I describe the barkeep doing something, and I start RPing the encounter, with the barkeep greeting him.
* Spontaneously, the player replies to the barkeep instead of trying to describe the conversation.
You tricked them into RPing the encounter, they didn't even notice, but since they stated their intent first, you can start thinking about what the barkeep might know or not know.
- Pay them for doing what you want them to do. Don't pay them for doing what you don't want them to do. If a player is engaging in clumsy RP, reward him. It'll encourage him to try again. If a player is trying to circumvent a RP encounter, let's say, by using magic to read the NPC's mind instead of just asking, punish him for failure. It doesn't have to be anything huge, but if we keep the previous example, maybe the barkeep suceeded on his saving throw, or maybe someone saw him cast his spell, and he gets kicked out of the tavern.
- Talk to your players, and tell them openly what you expect of them. Sometimes I open a gaming session by saying "well, today will be very RP-oriented guys", so they get in the mindset and get ready. Or a more general "I wish you would engage with NPC more, and treat them like people, and not just info sources". Which, again, an NPC getting well treated could spontaneously deliver some info as a thank you, whereas a PC whow they always visit only for info might end up getting offended and feeling used. Reward good player behaviour, "punish" "bad" player behaviour.
The secret of every DM: 50% of your preparation will go to the trash at every session.
But here's the even better secret though: you can recycle anything you didn't use.
I once designed a trap that I really liked. Sadly, the PC didn't trip it, because they didn't go to the place. Well, no problem, this trap will simply appear somewhere else. A cool NPC they didn't get to meet ? Well, let me reuse him somewhere else instead!
Honestly, if it's a one-shot, I just want to play with my funny toys: cast spells, swing my axe, defeat stuff. So I would agree with that advice. Sure, it's not as satisfying as a DM, because we don't get to play with our toys as much, but players with a new character usually just want to play with their new stuff.
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!
Don't worry if you don't know every rule. Chances are, neither do your players, and they won't know when you're making it up. If you ever do mess up a rule big time, hopefully one of your experienced players will patiently tell you. I had no idea what to expect when I prepared my first one shot, and while I did feel I made things a bit too difficult during the final boss (I added Dark Souls skeletons, I didn't think the cleric would fail that many saves in one turn), things still ran smoothly, and everyone had fun.
Also, if you want to encourage roleplay in a one shot, keep in mind that the nature of a one shot does make that a little tough (since you're not going to be seeing any of these people ever again, it's hard to get attached to any personalities), you can do it. One thing I did was have a group of duergar who had useful information for the party. They were hostile, but they also didn't want to start a fight right away, as they were holed up at the time and running low on supplies. So, the players could have just kicked their barricades down and fought them (one of my players, playing a dwarf, outright said that once they dealt with the main threat, they were going back to do just that), but it was also immediately clear that these duergar had helpful information. So, the party agreed to leave if the duergar told them what they wanted to know about the area (unfortunately, they didn't roll high enough for the duergar to warn them about a spirit naga in a nearby temple). I had no idea when I designed this encounter how it would go. I knew that I had a few possible murderhobos, but I also made sure to start the encounter with the duergar hiding and a few yelling to go away, setting the tone that not fighting was an option.
Thanks for these tips, mainly on the role-playing and how to involve players. I am definatly going to use this to pull in my players towards the campaign story and RP'ing in that. For the one-shot what I read between the lines is that I should let go of the desire to RP more, I find it difficult as I think 'new players' wouldn't get the full experience of what it means to play the game. Then again, I understand your arguments on this.
Would you think that when I turn it around, so playing with your character, defeating some monsters, getting some loot and then add in the role-playing, would make it better in a one-shot setting with new players? Or would it just be a dull ending.
What I'm thinking off is ending the game with a cliff-hanger. Either they are accused of murdering the monsters they just slayed, or there are clues they need to put together as they discover a big plot that will 'change history!' or there is some traps, puzzles they need to collaborate on to get to the loot - something like that I'm still brainstorming.
My goal is to put together a one-shot which is accessible to anyone, interesting for all and gives a good idea of the whole D&D game.
I will address your dashed points in order:
This is common with new table top roleplayers, they aren't sure yet what they "can" do so they are still learning what is possible. This improves both as they play longer, and get comfortable with each other and you. You can gently drop hints and suggestions about potential interactions, as well as use NPC's and events to have interactions present themselves or even come to the players, without it being railroading. Sometimes some things in modules are stones left unturned, its ok.
A one shot that is ONLY a one shot yes, because that's all it is, but one that is an introduction to a larger campaign with a group that will keep playing regularly, as you noted, not necessarily.
Handling monsters in combat improves with experience, also tools that make it easier to get at their stat blocks can help. I am a fan of ******** online, but there are others, see if any of those can help at least with bookkeeping in combat.
You have a large party, 7 people is quite a few, so some things, like combat especially, are just going to take longer. Compound that with the players being new, so needing more time to assess their options, and its just going to be a growing pain that things will take some extra time. Once they get more proficient in taking actions in combat, it will improve.
When you say can't hit it, do you mean they couldn't find it? Because 5E deals with invisible on its own simply conveying disadvantage to the attack roll, the stalker would still need to hide in order to be hard to detect (perception checks) which would end everytime it attacked. If you mean they couldn't hit because of disadvantage, then that's as intended. Also all CR calculations are best estimates, and a very high CR to level difference can make it hard for players to deal with raw higher values on things like AC, HP, and damage output. Consider using more lower CR monsters instead of a single really high CR monster, as that could end up being more like a boss fight for them, at least in the lower tier of play.
Makes sense, iron it out and refine it before finalizing and publishing. Agree.
Ouch, a tough lesson to learn, one I think we all have. Also recognize that some mats respond well to dry erase, others to wet erase.
In short, it sounds like a solid first game. Most of the issues you described are simply learning the game, and will correct themselves as you and your party get more proficient and gain more experience with the game. The only hard obstacle you are dealing with is a nearly double large party, so some of your time constraints will always feel that, but it isn't insurmountable, it just requires understanding and patience for that fact from everyone involved. Good luck!
One thing I keep in mind with 5e is that it's built around 3 pillars: combat, exploration, RP. There needs to be a balance between the three.
For a one-shot that's really just a one-and-done where you throw your character sheets afterwards, I feel like RP encounters need to be of a different nature: maybe you can roleplay your way out of a combat encounter, or maybe your players are going to go to a dungeon to get a treasure, and they meet a guy that's just leaving because he gave up, and they could try to convince him to spill what he encountered, so they can avoid the first trap (but he might not be entirely willing to give that info, since he might be thinking of coming back with help). My point is that RP encounters in a one-shot need to be immediatly rewarded, if it's just info dump or quest giving, players won't be as involved.
In a campaign, these things can be balanced differently. You can have a session that's really just combat, or only RP, but you should try and keep this in mind. It gives different characters different ways to shine: sure, the barbarian can swing that greataxe like no other, but he could also track someone through the woods, with the ranger foraging for food at night as the wizard create a magical safe zone to sleep in.
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!