I moved Reidoth to the Alderleaf farm and had him give directions to Cragmaw Castle. He also warned about an evil in Neverwinter Wood (Woodland Manse, etc.).
Theyre going to cross his path again as they head out of Phandalin as he leaves to Thundertree to investigate rumors of a green dragon.
I'll be seeding white dragon rumors, so a green dragon should catch them off guard.
I'm going exclusively milestone. They were level 2 coming out of Cragmaw Cave. Theyll hit 3 when they finish Cragmaw or Redbrand. 4 when they finish the other. 5 after Wave Echo. 6 after woodland manse/icespire depending on how things go. All the other quests will have some sort of minor magical loot or such. Cryovain will hopefully not be a battle and will lead to Venomfang. If they like Cryovain enough, its going to be a hook into SKT to rescue his mate.
Good call on the loot map for Wave Echo and I love the idea of a hidden temple and an artifact forged when the Forge of Spells was at peak power. May steal that :)
I'm digging a ton of those ideas. Thank you so much! Nezzner is definitely working with the orcs to destabilize Phandalin, but its the Orcs from the Shrine of Savras (I omitted the Wyvern Tor encounter). Theyre displaced from the mountains by Cryovain and Nezzner is using them to his advantage.
I thought about making the Dwarven Excavation be the other brothers but decided against it. I like the fact that theyve not been heard from.
I've tasked Sildar with dealing with the Redbrands. Over the next few days, he'll be having reinforcements from the LA come in to clean up the town, but he wont be sure where their hideout, or Glasstaff, are and will ask the PCs to help. Harbin has already locked himself in his hall and will be replaced by someone... the PCs really liked Torbin...
I also plan to use a door puzzle on the entrance to the Forge of Spells. Something called Triangle Lock. A 10ft by 10ft door with a triangle plate in the middle with 120 keyholes in it. 2 keys required. Nezznar can have one. Players can have or find the other. One's engraved with '5 from the right with 3 in between' and the other is engraved '5 from the left with 3 in between.' Both keys are needed to open the door, and each key is used twice, on 2 different keyholes. So each of the 4 correct holes unlocks one of the clamps on the 4 corners of the door! Maybe that explains why Nezznar has been unable to progress with getting into the Forge of Spells!
I actually have 2 metals keys engraved with those riddles on them for my players to hold in their hands! I love props!
I also am going to afterwards incorporate old magic talismans crafted from the Forge of Spells hidden in secret temples. A glittery metal d4 inside a copper cryptex like the one from DaVinci Code! (wish.com) a riddle in the temple/tomb or on the cryptex itself needs to be solved so they can open it. Inside, the magical '"talisman" is a good luck charm. once attuned, it allows the wielder to add a d4 to any ability check, saving throw or attack roll! Once per day.
If they find more, which I will allude to, up to 5 of them spread throughout the realm in secret locations, a different riddle for each one they find in a cryptex. (it's a prop that never gets old!) And if they bring one in close proximity to another, they attract like magnets, fold open and click together to form and d8! And thus it's luck power is increased!
If they find all 5 they combine to make a d20 shaped "good luck talisman" that allows someone to roll any ability check, saving throw or attack roll with advantage once per day!
This will make it hotly sought after by other interested parties. Kinda like rivals on Indiana Jones or National Treasure!
I have these things as actual metal props for my players! If you wanna see what i'm talking about PM me and I'll show you!
p.s. i also made some health potion props with red epoxy in glass bottles and red dice!
In my session zero (probably too late for you all), I had the PCs attacked by thugs in Neverwinter. Those thugs carried swords with the symbol of the Redbrand gang on them.....
1. I have run DOIP a few times for my kids and group of friends. I always like to start with the PCs seeing Cyrovain flying overhead. It quickly and subtly establishes that Cryovain is the BBEG of the mini-campaign.
2. The opening quest I start with is with the Manticore encounter. It is strong enough for LV1 PCs to wipe them out, but intelligent enough to negotiate and see things the PC's way. I use this encounter as a great way to introduce the PCs to role-playing, as not every monster needs a stab stab stab die.
3. From there, you can offer the other T1 quests for the players to play through. If they happen to go to the Excavation Site, just rename the two Dwarves there to Nundro and Tharden. Another idea is that these Dwarves are the two Doppledangers employed by Nezznar. Either way, this excavation is a failed attempt to find the Wave Echo Cave. If the did go to the Excavation Site fight, then you can pocket Gnomengarde until the players are 5th or 6th level, as per "A Tale of Two Dragons" suggests.
4. Have Nundro and Tharden task the players with finding their brother Gundren. This will set the players on the path of Part One of LMOP with a level or two under their belt, making that first encounter with the Goblins a little less deadly. Hell, the entirety of Part One are deadly encounters one after another, and having the players up a few levels helps. ESPECIALLY if you only have one or two players and some sidekicks.
4a. Having the players away trying to find Gundren and the Cragmaws is an awesome excuse to have the Rebrands move in. Harbin, being scared of the White Dragon in the area, has locked himself in his house (as per DOIP) and refuses to leave while the beast is prowling around. It would go completely unnoticed (or maybe he's too scared to deal with) the ruffians that have moved in to the town.
5. Once the players are back in Phandalin, they should be LV3. From here you can tackle the T2 quests from DOIP or deal with the Redbrands. From here, if the players are tackling the T2 quests from DOIP, then run them as is... or if they take on the Redbrands, play that as is. As the players start to reach LV5... then you can use both parts of this product to scale up the encounters and intermingle them.
We already know that the Cragmaws and the Redbrands are working with Nezznar to destabilize Phandalin. You can also have Nezznar strike a deal with the Orcs and Anchorites of Talos. Nezznar doesn't want those pesky Adventurers finding his cave and... and plays nicely in to the destruction of Phandalin.
7. Have the Orcs of Wyvern Tor be part of the Orc group that are helping the Anchorites of Talos.
8. Wait to ambush Phandalin until the players are off in the Wave Echo Cave. As they are on their way back, they see the smoke rising from the town. This will lead easily into the final encounter of the Tale by sending them up to Icespire Peak to deal with the Dragon. Hell, my kids negotiated with the Orcs, and once they cleaned out Icespire, let the Orcs move back in with the Anchorites in tow to live in "peace" and worship Talos so long as they didn't come back to the Highroad or Trail.
8a. We already know that the Cragmaws and the Redbrands are working with Nezznar to destabilize Phandalin. You can also have Nezznar strike a deal with the Orcs and Anchorites of Talos. Nezznar doesn't want those pesky Adventurers finding his cave and... and plays nicely in to the destruction of Phandalin.
9. Let Venomfang from Thundertree still escape. If the players end up killing here, that's okay too... but imagine this... Venomfang KNOWS there is another dragon in the area and CANNOT STAND IT. Have her negotiate with the players. If the players help her get rid of the dragon, she will let them live. Venomfang doesn't know where Cyrovain is nesting, she is much younger than the older white dragon, and the idea of scouting him out and him attacking her is not in Venomfangs best interest. She is a green dragon, after all... she has all the time in the world to wait and plan. Here's where things get awesome. If the players agree, Venomfang shows up for the fight on top of Icespire peak to "help" the players. I picture her bursting through the icey fog, roaring, as the players have Cyrovain on the ropes. A dragon vs dragon encounter will be something the players will never forget. The PCs can deal with Venomfang now or later... either way she will keep her word... for now... setting up the possibility of another BBEG for another, expanded, adventure.
10. As a nice little epilogue, the players have restored Phandalin to the mining and trading town it once was. A few months or even a year later, rumors of a horrible spiderlike creature attacking Gnome and Dwarven miners begin to surface. The players investigate and find that a Drider has moved in to one of the mines and is terrorizing the miners. When the players encounter the Drider, it is none other than Nezznar, back from the dead. His failure in the Wave Echo Cave did not go unnoticed by Lolth, the Spider Queen. As punishment, she cursed him as a Drider to haunt the caves that he failed to secure. It really puts a nice bow on the entire adventure, and the callback will be appreciated by the players.
These are of course just MY ideas on how I plan on using this product. Feel free to join in the discussion and add to my crazy ramblings.
Like you I always have my players see Cryovin at the end of session 1 (session 1 is always role played in the town with encounters, a small fight with a local gang that is causing issues, and the party coming together before deciding which job to take first).
Describing the impact on the environment first, how despite it being late Spring and a clear sunny day the air is unusually cold (impact caused by the white dragon), then, in the sky a fleck, possibly a small bird high up, it starts to grow and then the contrails are seen first, like a plane high in the sky twin lines coming from each wing tip. As it gets closer those with sharp sight see the flecks of ice forming and cracking and then breaking off of its body, moisture in the air frozen on impact with it's cold body before a movement of muscle sends it breaking free. The dragon lets out a cry, and even at this distance it shakes through you.
At this point I let my players react, it's a great time to put them under a bit of pressure and make them see that I won't always give them unlimited time out of game to make in game decisions. Whatever they do Cryovin dives out of sight, they realise just how far away he really was, and then comes back into sight with some beast, a cow or deer, clutched in one of its great claws. It circles again before heading off.
I have paired these adventures a couple of times. I never reveal the dragon early. I show them signs of... something. A half frozen carcass, picked mostly clean but now drawing predators that have to be dealt with. Livestock that go missing from the farms around Phandalin, with mysterious frozen patches of ground. Unless the random location roll puts Cryovain in their proximity, I don't give them a sighting until midway through the adventure. Now the townsfolk are panicking. Now it is emergent to figure out what to do. Pressure from both sides to handle their respective situation. Deal with the Spider, or the Dragon. Players have to make choices, and it gives them options. No more linear path.
LMoP is very linear, which isn't necessarily bad. But, every encounter has a piece of the puzzle. There are very few you can omit. Icespire is entirely optional. You can do all of them or none of them. This gives the players so much more choice and if your campaign is running a tad long or short, just cut to fit. It also lets you cater to player's styles. They like dungeon crawls, throw in Axeholm. They like more NPC interaction, Gnomengarde is fun. (All my gnomes sound like they are from Minnesota dontcha know.) In all the times I ran this, no party has ever braved the forest to the logging camp. Too much time and not enough urgency. So I don't even bother to prep this anymore. YMMV.
I have a party nearing the end of Lost Mines. I've only recently picked up the Icespire adventures, so decided to work them in together, especially to link them into the 3 additional modules included with Essentials. The party has just finished up with Cragmaw Castle, made level 4 and returned to Phandelver. I wanted them to continue through the Mines and perhaps pursue the Dragon after that, when they are level 5 (I have a strong party of 6 PCs so the level isn't too strict).
So.... on their return to Phandalin from Cragmaw, they have just heard rumours of a dragon while having dinner in the Inn. I'm assuming that they will think that it is Venomfang as they had been battling it in Thundertree, but Venomfang fled part way through the fight. Actually it's Cryovain. I haven't given them enough to actually pursue the dragon and I have the Gundren on their case, pushing them to head to the mines next to check on his brothers.
On their return I will get them into Axeholm, the dragon slayer sword or the Manse (or all of them) adding in info as I go, before they have enough to find the dragon. They may have found out enough to realise its not Venomfang by then. Or not...
Once that is done, I will link them into the modules above Icespire (the 3 online ones that were included).
So it's about 18 months from my post and the party is in the last stages of Divine Contention, the 3rd follow on module. It's been an enjoyable series of adventures. Even game time, it's several months since they set out to Phandalin to make their delivery.
I love this flow chart. Wish there was a pdf so I could print this sucker up! Combining the two myself but sort of running a bunch of stuff from Phandelver first before quests/events from DoIP open open up. First time running this and have never played and have done one session so far and went well.
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I moved Reidoth to the Alderleaf farm and had him give directions to Cragmaw Castle. He also warned about an evil in Neverwinter Wood (Woodland Manse, etc.).
Theyre going to cross his path again as they head out of Phandalin as he leaves to Thundertree to investigate rumors of a green dragon.
I'll be seeding white dragon rumors, so a green dragon should catch them off guard.
I'm going exclusively milestone. They were level 2 coming out of Cragmaw Cave. Theyll hit 3 when they finish Cragmaw or Redbrand. 4 when they finish the other. 5 after Wave Echo. 6 after woodland manse/icespire depending on how things go. All the other quests will have some sort of minor magical loot or such. Cryovain will hopefully not be a battle and will lead to Venomfang. If they like Cryovain enough, its going to be a hook into SKT to rescue his mate.
Good call on the loot map for Wave Echo and I love the idea of a hidden temple and an artifact forged when the Forge of Spells was at peak power. May steal that :)
I'm digging a ton of those ideas. Thank you so much! Nezzner is definitely working with the orcs to destabilize Phandalin, but its the Orcs from the Shrine of Savras (I omitted the Wyvern Tor encounter). Theyre displaced from the mountains by Cryovain and Nezzner is using them to his advantage.
I thought about making the Dwarven Excavation be the other brothers but decided against it. I like the fact that theyve not been heard from.
I've tasked Sildar with dealing with the Redbrands. Over the next few days, he'll be having reinforcements from the LA come in to clean up the town, but he wont be sure where their hideout, or Glasstaff, are and will ask the PCs to help. Harbin has already locked himself in his hall and will be replaced by someone... the PCs really liked Torbin...
Thanks again for the great ideas :)
I also plan to use a door puzzle on the entrance to the Forge of Spells. Something called Triangle Lock. A 10ft by 10ft door with a triangle plate in the middle with 120 keyholes in it. 2 keys required. Nezznar can have one. Players can have or find the other. One's engraved with '5 from the right with 3 in between' and the other is engraved '5 from the left with 3 in between.' Both keys are needed to open the door, and each key is used twice, on 2 different keyholes. So each of the 4 correct holes unlocks one of the clamps on the 4 corners of the door! Maybe that explains why Nezznar has been unable to progress with getting into the Forge of Spells!
I actually have 2 metals keys engraved with those riddles on them for my players to hold in their hands! I love props!
I also am going to afterwards incorporate old magic talismans crafted from the Forge of Spells hidden in secret temples. A glittery metal d4 inside a copper cryptex like the one from DaVinci Code! (wish.com) a riddle in the temple/tomb or on the cryptex itself needs to be solved so they can open it. Inside, the magical '"talisman" is a good luck charm. once attuned, it allows the wielder to add a d4 to any ability check, saving throw or attack roll! Once per day.
If they find more, which I will allude to, up to 5 of them spread throughout the realm in secret locations, a different riddle for each one they find in a cryptex. (it's a prop that never gets old!) And if they bring one in close proximity to another, they attract like magnets, fold open and click together to form and d8! And thus it's luck power is increased!
If they find all 5 they combine to make a d20 shaped "good luck talisman" that allows someone to roll any ability check, saving throw or attack roll with advantage once per day!
This will make it hotly sought after by other interested parties. Kinda like rivals on Indiana Jones or National Treasure!
I have these things as actual metal props for my players! If you wanna see what i'm talking about PM me and I'll show you!
p.s. i also made some health potion props with red epoxy in glass bottles and red dice!
that flow chart is amazing!
In my session zero (probably too late for you all), I had the PCs attacked by thugs in Neverwinter. Those thugs carried swords with the symbol of the Redbrand gang on them.....
What are the "ambush" bits that a lot of the lines have? That is the only part im misunderstanding
Like you I always have my players see Cryovin at the end of session 1 (session 1 is always role played in the town with encounters, a small fight with a local gang that is causing issues, and the party coming together before deciding which job to take first).
Describing the impact on the environment first, how despite it being late Spring and a clear sunny day the air is unusually cold (impact caused by the white dragon), then, in the sky a fleck, possibly a small bird high up, it starts to grow and then the contrails are seen first, like a plane high in the sky twin lines coming from each wing tip. As it gets closer those with sharp sight see the flecks of ice forming and cracking and then breaking off of its body, moisture in the air frozen on impact with it's cold body before a movement of muscle sends it breaking free. The dragon lets out a cry, and even at this distance it shakes through you.
At this point I let my players react, it's a great time to put them under a bit of pressure and make them see that I won't always give them unlimited time out of game to make in game decisions. Whatever they do Cryovin dives out of sight, they realise just how far away he really was, and then comes back into sight with some beast, a cow or deer, clutched in one of its great claws. It circles again before heading off.
I have paired these adventures a couple of times. I never reveal the dragon early. I show them signs of... something. A half frozen carcass, picked mostly clean but now drawing predators that have to be dealt with. Livestock that go missing from the farms around Phandalin, with mysterious frozen patches of ground. Unless the random location roll puts Cryovain in their proximity, I don't give them a sighting until midway through the adventure. Now the townsfolk are panicking. Now it is emergent to figure out what to do. Pressure from both sides to handle their respective situation. Deal with the Spider, or the Dragon. Players have to make choices, and it gives them options. No more linear path.
LMoP is very linear, which isn't necessarily bad. But, every encounter has a piece of the puzzle. There are very few you can omit. Icespire is entirely optional. You can do all of them or none of them. This gives the players so much more choice and if your campaign is running a tad long or short, just cut to fit. It also lets you cater to player's styles. They like dungeon crawls, throw in Axeholm. They like more NPC interaction, Gnomengarde is fun. (All my gnomes sound like they are from Minnesota dontcha know.) In all the times I ran this, no party has ever braved the forest to the logging camp. Too much time and not enough urgency. So I don't even bother to prep this anymore. YMMV.
Thank you. This is brilliant!
So it's about 18 months from my post and the party is in the last stages of Divine Contention, the 3rd follow on module. It's been an enjoyable series of adventures. Even game time, it's several months since they set out to Phandalin to make their delivery.
This is awesome! thanks
I love this flow chart. Wish there was a pdf so I could print this sucker up! Combining the two myself but sort of running a bunch of stuff from Phandelver first before quests/events from DoIP open open up. First time running this and have never played and have done one session so far and went well.