I forgot about that ghost axe. My players lucked out and just didn't go that way till after they allied with Mortlock. I agreed it was something of a time waster as designed so I had Mortlock warn them about it, and the party gave the Flaming Fist contingent securing the property the heads up about it. It's cool you had the cult connected to a character's back story, otherwise they're sort of just faceless monster types. Cool to have some investment.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The fight that cannot be won traditionally is a well-known trope for all the obvious reasons as is the noble self-sacrifice of NPCs/PCs. My group tried to negotiate with Arkhan last session a straight up trade of the dragon orb for the reliquary. An additional sacrifice of a good aligned being, Lulu or a PC was still called for. We balked at this and wanted to go our way; three of the party in the tent with Arkhan and three outside with an additional NPC with the bodyguard, the manticore and the 12 goons. Arkhan demanded we leave the orb as payment for save passage out of his camp an our hotheaded Warlock told Arkhan to go f**k himself after which we were told to roll initiative. All in all our party managed to kill the manticore and the 12 Cannon fodder. We lost our NPC and one party member. Arkhan burned through all the charges of the Hand of Vecna, and then some, and teleported himself and his body guard back to his tower along with Lulu. So now we have the choice to assault his tower, which would be costly at best and suicide at worst, or to slink away. Most of the party never wanted the fight to begin with but it was sorta forced upon us. I know that this adventure is about the best bad decisions but it feels like we've accomplished nothing at the cost of multiple part losses.
That would be a smart thing to do, gathering what allies we can. The DM did hint at the end of the session that if we take a short rest along with an infernal hero's feast, something our DM introduced to the party, then we would all be maxed out while Arkhan would still have limited capabilities until the hand recharges at dawn. I wracked my brain for hours after the session as to how we could with our current group could tactically assault the tower and I can't fill all the holes that I see.
We are an overpowered group of 5 9th level characters with the benefits of a hero's feast. Scout rogue Tabaxi with an oathbow, however the minotaur was his oath and fled before it was put down. Lizardman Stars Druid that plays very passively. Elven EK with high AC and shield as his go to spell. Aasimar Chain Warlock that is chaotic good/annoying/stupid and me, Warforged Forge Cleric. If it's us five versus all of the bad guys we flat out get overwhelmed within 2/3 rounds no matter what initiative we roll. If we can get the forces piecemeal it becomes at least a fight instead of a slaughter. We do have some bad ass gear, DM was over generous with the loot, but that only goes so far.
We do have the dragon orb still so we could use it the call out the dragons. The adult white should arrive before the young ones. Reading here it says that some are wyrmlings??? but the DM described all the non-adult dragons as young dragons, no wyrmlings. The EK has two daggers of dragon slaying which ups his DPS tremendously. We were allowed to redo our prepared spells like after a long rest after the hero's feast so the druid has earthbind to hopefully ground at least the adult white. He also has lucky to help with a few poor rolls and his weal or woe as a Stars Druid. If we could nuke the adult white and somehow survive the 4 smaller ones we would have depleted Arkham's forces. After this battle we would be spent even if every PC survived so we would have to long rest which would recharge Arkhan fully before we could approach him.
So another idea would be to have one PC bond with the dragon orb and call out the 5 dragons leaving the other 4 PCs to assault the tower without the dragons for at least a while. This removes 5 defenders and one PC which is a huge swing towards the players even if we are still way outgunned. So that leaves Krill, the minotaur, Arkhan, 50 to 100 low level undead and however many Abashani??? My plan would be to somehow negate Krull first. My best plan is to have the warlock cast fly on the forge cleric, have him drink a potion of Invisibility and try to cast banishment on the tortle for 10 rounds of not having to worry about his cleric BS. I'm hoping his charisma is not terribly high and banishment has a chance. Curse at the highest level possible on Arkhan and hope he doesn't have legendary actions or some BS high wisdom save. Have my cleric then dust whatever waves of undead he can with his two channel divinities while the other 3 pour everything they can into Arkhan. My last resort play would be using the planner ally bead from my necklace of prayer beads to call on Tiamat herself and offer up the dragon orb for some of her blood and Lulu back since Arkhan turned down the deal we offered and then fled. IDK if any of this would work but it's the best idea I have to win this unwinnable fight and get what we need.
Just want to point out that this otherwise insightful thread is in the DMsOnly section and this particular thread is for DMs to discuss how to contend with some of the presumed "difficulty" of Descent into Avernus because of the power level of some of the PCs' adversaries. It's not really supposed to be a place where players can consult DMs outside their groups to strategize against the module's major encounter challenges.
But I'll provide a spoiler, there's no map to Arkham's tower in the book. The PCs in the module as written I believe are presumed to not have the power to take the tower. Whatever you and your party are up against will be ultimately and entirely your DMs call.
I use Avernus more as the roots of a sourcebook than a straight run now. That said options to contend with Arkham do exist in the module as written if you play more diplomatically than combatively. But that's just how I run the space.
I am in a strange spot on this one I am running a group through HotDQ. I wanted to add some flavor to Baldur's Gate so I gave them a lead on the Dungeon of the Dead 3. Comparing stat blocks of HotDQ enemies and DIA enemies at least for the Dungeon of the Dead 3 the DIA enemies are a lot more robust. Now I think that this is largely because one criticism of 5e is that it is that its not very deadly. Without the Fireball I don't know how hard the Dungeon would be.
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I forgot about that ghost axe. My players lucked out and just didn't go that way till after they allied with Mortlock. I agreed it was something of a time waster as designed so I had Mortlock warn them about it, and the party gave the Flaming Fist contingent securing the property the heads up about it. It's cool you had the cult connected to a character's back story, otherwise they're sort of just faceless monster types. Cool to have some investment.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Can they die? They don't have to succeed in a hell trip, right?
The fight that cannot be won traditionally is a well-known trope for all the obvious reasons as is the noble self-sacrifice of NPCs/PCs. My group tried to negotiate with Arkhan last session a straight up trade of the dragon orb for the reliquary. An additional sacrifice of a good aligned being, Lulu or a PC was still called for. We balked at this and wanted to go our way; three of the party in the tent with Arkhan and three outside with an additional NPC with the bodyguard, the manticore and the 12 goons. Arkhan demanded we leave the orb as payment for save passage out of his camp an our hotheaded Warlock told Arkhan to go f**k himself after which we were told to roll initiative. All in all our party managed to kill the manticore and the 12 Cannon fodder. We lost our NPC and one party member. Arkhan burned through all the charges of the Hand of Vecna, and then some, and teleported himself and his body guard back to his tower along with Lulu. So now we have the choice to assault his tower, which would be costly at best and suicide at worst, or to slink away. Most of the party never wanted the fight to begin with but it was sorta forced upon us. I know that this adventure is about the best bad decisions but it feels like we've accomplished nothing at the cost of multiple part losses.
That would be a smart thing to do, gathering what allies we can. The DM did hint at the end of the session that if we take a short rest along with an infernal hero's feast, something our DM introduced to the party, then we would all be maxed out while Arkhan would still have limited capabilities until the hand recharges at dawn. I wracked my brain for hours after the session as to how we could with our current group could tactically assault the tower and I can't fill all the holes that I see.
We are an overpowered group of 5 9th level characters with the benefits of a hero's feast. Scout rogue Tabaxi with an oathbow, however the minotaur was his oath and fled before it was put down. Lizardman Stars Druid that plays very passively. Elven EK with high AC and shield as his go to spell. Aasimar Chain Warlock that is chaotic good/annoying/stupid and me, Warforged Forge Cleric. If it's us five versus all of the bad guys we flat out get overwhelmed within 2/3 rounds no matter what initiative we roll. If we can get the forces piecemeal it becomes at least a fight instead of a slaughter. We do have some bad ass gear, DM was over generous with the loot, but that only goes so far.
We do have the dragon orb still so we could use it the call out the dragons. The adult white should arrive before the young ones. Reading here it says that some are wyrmlings??? but the DM described all the non-adult dragons as young dragons, no wyrmlings. The EK has two daggers of dragon slaying which ups his DPS tremendously. We were allowed to redo our prepared spells like after a long rest after the hero's feast so the druid has earthbind to hopefully ground at least the adult white. He also has lucky to help with a few poor rolls and his weal or woe as a Stars Druid. If we could nuke the adult white and somehow survive the 4 smaller ones we would have depleted Arkham's forces. After this battle we would be spent even if every PC survived so we would have to long rest which would recharge Arkhan fully before we could approach him.
So another idea would be to have one PC bond with the dragon orb and call out the 5 dragons leaving the other 4 PCs to assault the tower without the dragons for at least a while. This removes 5 defenders and one PC which is a huge swing towards the players even if we are still way outgunned. So that leaves Krill, the minotaur, Arkhan, 50 to 100 low level undead and however many Abashani??? My plan would be to somehow negate Krull first. My best plan is to have the warlock cast fly on the forge cleric, have him drink a potion of Invisibility and try to cast banishment on the tortle for 10 rounds of not having to worry about his cleric BS. I'm hoping his charisma is not terribly high and banishment has a chance. Curse at the highest level possible on Arkhan and hope he doesn't have legendary actions or some BS high wisdom save. Have my cleric then dust whatever waves of undead he can with his two channel divinities while the other 3 pour everything they can into Arkhan. My last resort play would be using the planner ally bead from my necklace of prayer beads to call on Tiamat herself and offer up the dragon orb for some of her blood and Lulu back since Arkhan turned down the deal we offered and then fled. IDK if any of this would work but it's the best idea I have to win this unwinnable fight and get what we need.
Just want to point out that this otherwise insightful thread is in the DMsOnly section and this particular thread is for DMs to discuss how to contend with some of the presumed "difficulty" of Descent into Avernus because of the power level of some of the PCs' adversaries. It's not really supposed to be a place where players can consult DMs outside their groups to strategize against the module's major encounter challenges.
But I'll provide a spoiler, there's no map to Arkham's tower in the book. The PCs in the module as written I believe are presumed to not have the power to take the tower. Whatever you and your party are up against will be ultimately and entirely your DMs call.
I use Avernus more as the roots of a sourcebook than a straight run now. That said options to contend with Arkham do exist in the module as written if you play more diplomatically than combatively. But that's just how I run the space.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am in a strange spot on this one I am running a group through HotDQ. I wanted to add some flavor to Baldur's Gate so I gave them a lead on the Dungeon of the Dead 3. Comparing stat blocks of HotDQ enemies and DIA enemies at least for the Dungeon of the Dead 3 the DIA enemies are a lot more robust. Now I think that this is largely because one criticism of 5e is that it is that its not very deadly. Without the Fireball I don't know how hard the Dungeon would be.