I'm not exactly sure where to ask this, but I'm pretty sure it goes here.
I'm DMing a game at my college and its been going pretty well. However, I recently discovered that one of my players changed their stats from what they were originally. I know this because I have the original copy of their sheet on my account because they didn't have one at the start of the campaign and the sheet that has the different stats is on their account. The stats on their new sheet were originally the same as the ones on their original sheet and I did change them back to their original state after the session in which I realized this (I kinda went off a bit because it was in the middle of a combat and it was late).
This all leads to about 10 minutes ago when I checked their sheet and lo and behold their stats were changed again. I don't know what to do. I'm tempted to dm them on Discord about it but I don't think I could keep my composure. I don't think I gave a proper warning the first time so they may not have gotten it. But what should I do if it happens again?
I just need help. This is my first time dealing with something like this and it baffles me.
Was it a rearrange, dropping some stats and raising others? Or did they increase individual stats out of nowhere?
If the former, then perhaps ask them why they felt they had to do it? Perhaps they just weren't happy with the character, and didn't know what to do about it. Maybe give them the chance to roll a new character and kill the old one off.
If the latter, then they are straight up cheating, probably know it, and should be called out for it. They may not see the harm, but it can have a knock-on effect on the rest of the party. They'll now have an unbalanced character that could dominate and make things less fun. I've not been a DnDer or DM for long, but I played Werewolf Apocalypse back in college (damn, now I'm showing my age) and have painful memories of a cheater/power gamer who could suck all the fun out of the game for everyone else. You have to nip it in the bud quickly - player has to change the character back, roll a new one, or leave the game.
They increased all of their stats by at least 2. I'm thinking about adding a rules section to my discord and I'm definitely going to have a talk with them about it and make the consequences clear for what happens if they do it again.
The other question is are the just rearranging the location of the stats, or are they just entirely different?
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
They increased all of their stats by at least 2. I'm thinking about adding a rules section to my discord and I'm definitely going to have a talk with them about it and make the consequences clear for what happens if they do it again.
Yeah, that's just straight up cheating, they now have a broken character. You have to take them in hand, it can't be allowed to stand. It's unfair to the rest of the table.
If they somehow rolled abysmally low for every stat, and felt trapped with a character you agree is useless, then give them the chance to reroll a new character. But that seems unlikely. They need to learn to play within the advantages and disadvantages of their character.
I'm not sure whether this situation is salvageable, as it's a matter of basic trust.
Where is this campaign being housed? Here on DnD Beyond? I'm unclear if you're playing real tabletop, or virtual table top.
If the Player is willing to edit their stats, can you even trust their rolls - assuming this is done at an actual table? Unless you're going to check each and every roll they make, what's to prevent them from just lying about their rolls, or their adjusted totals? It's different if they are using an openly visible die roller in a VTT.
I agree with the suggestions about figuring out why they feel they need to edit their stats - allow them to explain or have a defense. They may feel that they were hopelessly under-classed by the other Characters, and are trying to make it a level playing field. That's not great, but at least a little understandable ( although I still wouldn't let their edits stand ).
If they're just doing it because they think they can and get away with it, and they're trying to give themselves an unfair advantage, then I'd be inclined to remove them from the group if it were my table: I can't trust them, and I don't have the time to be checking them all the time.
In any case, confront them with it, tell them you have a copy of their original stats, and if they change outside reasons you're familiar with, you'll see it, and act as you see fit.
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I talked with them and it seems like this may have been some sort of misunderstanding or miscommunication. I'll still keep an eye on them to make sure that nothing else happens, but it seems pretty resolved now.
Good luck. I had a young lady at my table last year that pulled that stuff all the time. I counseled her, but because it was a school group rehabilitation was the goal instead of removal, she pulled it like 3 times. I just shook my head and said “we play from the sheet I gave you.”
It sounds like you've found your answer, but the advantage of point-buy over rolling is that it tends alleviate a lot of cheating temptations, miscommunications and overall hard feelings.
FIRST:I'd say only allow rolled stats for an in-person game, and in that case you should roll stats together at Session 0 so everyone sees everything. If you're playing online I agree with sticking to point-buy. (Standard array just seems boring to me - I like people to be able to do SOME tinkering with their character.)
SECOND: Their original stats as given don't measure up to my usual rule (stolen from Matt Colville) that a character should have at least two stats of at least 15 or you re-roll the set. So I'd have let them re-roll anyway.
THIRD - I'm glad it seems to be resolved for now. I also think that, if after a talk with them you learn that they felt like their characters were under-powered (or they just didn't like the character for whatever reason) I'd absolutely let them just retire the character and roll up a replacement. Heck, or even just re-stat the character if they didn't understand the mechanics and wound up with a borked PC.
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I'm not exactly sure where to ask this, but I'm pretty sure it goes here.
I'm DMing a game at my college and its been going pretty well. However, I recently discovered that one of my players changed their stats from what they were originally. I know this because I have the original copy of their sheet on my account because they didn't have one at the start of the campaign and the sheet that has the different stats is on their account. The stats on their new sheet were originally the same as the ones on their original sheet and I did change them back to their original state after the session in which I realized this (I kinda went off a bit because it was in the middle of a combat and it was late).
This all leads to about 10 minutes ago when I checked their sheet and lo and behold their stats were changed again. I don't know what to do. I'm tempted to dm them on Discord about it but I don't think I could keep my composure. I don't think I gave a proper warning the first time so they may not have gotten it. But what should I do if it happens again?
I just need help. This is my first time dealing with something like this and it baffles me.
Are you using point-based stat buy, or are they rolling for stats?
Was it a rearrange, dropping some stats and raising others? Or did they increase individual stats out of nowhere?
If the former, then perhaps ask them why they felt they had to do it? Perhaps they just weren't happy with the character, and didn't know what to do about it. Maybe give them the chance to roll a new character and kill the old one off.
If the latter, then they are straight up cheating, probably know it, and should be called out for it. They may not see the harm, but it can have a knock-on effect on the rest of the party. They'll now have an unbalanced character that could dominate and make things less fun. I've not been a DnDer or DM for long, but I played Werewolf Apocalypse back in college (damn, now I'm showing my age) and have painful memories of a cheater/power gamer who could suck all the fun out of the game for everyone else. You have to nip it in the bud quickly - player has to change the character back, roll a new one, or leave the game.
We rolled for stats.
They increased all of their stats by at least 2. I'm thinking about adding a rules section to my discord and I'm definitely going to have a talk with them about it and make the consequences clear for what happens if they do it again.
The other question is are the just rearranging the location of the stats, or are they just entirely different?
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Yeah, that's just straight up cheating, they now have a broken character. You have to take them in hand, it can't be allowed to stand. It's unfair to the rest of the table.
If they somehow rolled abysmally low for every stat, and felt trapped with a character you agree is useless, then give them the chance to reroll a new character. But that seems unlikely. They need to learn to play within the advantages and disadvantages of their character.
No, pretty much all of their stats were higher except their Con.
They had a 9, 2 10s, 2 14s, and a 16. Those are pretty decent stats and they ended up with no stat being below 10.
I'm not sure whether this situation is salvageable, as it's a matter of basic trust.
Where is this campaign being housed? Here on DnD Beyond? I'm unclear if you're playing real tabletop, or virtual table top.
If the Player is willing to edit their stats, can you even trust their rolls - assuming this is done at an actual table? Unless you're going to check each and every roll they make, what's to prevent them from just lying about their rolls, or their adjusted totals? It's different if they are using an openly visible die roller in a VTT.
I agree with the suggestions about figuring out why they feel they need to edit their stats - allow them to explain or have a defense. They may feel that they were hopelessly under-classed by the other Characters, and are trying to make it a level playing field. That's not great, but at least a little understandable ( although I still wouldn't let their edits stand ).
If they're just doing it because they think they can and get away with it, and they're trying to give themselves an unfair advantage, then I'd be inclined to remove them from the group if it were my table: I can't trust them, and I don't have the time to be checking them all the time.
In any case, confront them with it, tell them you have a copy of their original stats, and if they change outside reasons you're familiar with, you'll see it, and act as you see fit.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I talked with them and it seems like this may have been some sort of misunderstanding or miscommunication. I'll still keep an eye on them to make sure that nothing else happens, but it seems pretty resolved now.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.
Good luck. I had a young lady at my table last year that pulled that stuff all the time. I counseled her, but because it was a school group rehabilitation was the goal instead of removal, she pulled it like 3 times. I just shook my head and said “we play from the sheet I gave you.”
It sounds like you've found your answer, but the advantage of point-buy over rolling is that it tends alleviate a lot of cheating temptations, miscommunications and overall hard feelings.
Hmmmmmm. I'll say a few things here.
FIRST:I'd say only allow rolled stats for an in-person game, and in that case you should roll stats together at Session 0 so everyone sees everything. If you're playing online I agree with sticking to point-buy. (Standard array just seems boring to me - I like people to be able to do SOME tinkering with their character.)
SECOND: Their original stats as given don't measure up to my usual rule (stolen from Matt Colville) that a character should have at least two stats of at least 15 or you re-roll the set. So I'd have let them re-roll anyway.
THIRD - I'm glad it seems to be resolved for now. I also think that, if after a talk with them you learn that they felt like their characters were under-powered (or they just didn't like the character for whatever reason) I'd absolutely let them just retire the character and roll up a replacement. Heck, or even just re-stat the character if they didn't understand the mechanics and wound up with a borked PC.